jimzbund

islam in iran

Islamization was a long process by which Islam was gradually adopted by the majority population of Iran.

Richard Bulliet's "conversion curve" indicates that only about 10% of Iran converted to Islam during the relatively Arab-centric Umayyad period. Beginning in the Abassid
period, with its mix of Persian as well as Arab rulers, the Muslim
percentage of the population rose. As Persian Muslims consolidated
their rule of the country, the Muslim population rose from approx. 40%
in the mid 9th century to close to 100% by the end of 11th century.Seyyed Hossein Nasr suggests that the rapid increase in conversion was aided by the Persian nationality of the rulers.

Although Persians adopted the religion of their conquerors, over the
centuries they worked to protect and revive their distinctive language
and culture, a process known as Persianization. Arabs and Turks participated in this attempt.

islamization of iran led to

islamization of iran led to the eventual decline of the zoroastrianism  in persia. However, the achievements of the previous Persian civilizations were not lost, but were to a great extent absorbed by the new islamic polity and  civilization.
After centuries of foreign occupation and short-lived native
dynasties, Iran was once again reunified as an independent state in
1501 by the safavid who established shia islam as the official religion of their empire, marking one of the most important turning points in the history.

Re;Detective

Yolanda, btw* another detective work;

That mass wedding in Palestine, ! was funded by Mullah regime in Tehran.& yes I  own an igloo ;:)

Cheers!!!

//www.iranianidentity.blogspot.com/

//www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Dear Setareh,

thanks for the reply and enjoy the weekend.

KP

Dear Kaveh

You say about the clerics and Islam that "Don't they really speak for it?" They have their say, but are they listened to?!  The popular movement and increasing resistance to their arbitrary rule indicates that they are pissing in the wind! ;)

"Can you really be more Catholic than the Pope or the chuch?!!"   Easily! It is effortless!  Many Muslims, Christians and Jews argue that what is preached by their formal representatives is false and a misrepresentation of their beliefs!  

Kaveh, if you are talking about the state or official Islam, against clerical rule, and are for the separation of state and religion, then I totally agree with you.  But I also believe that the notion of Islam (like other religions) is not uniform and static either in history or in people's minds.  You say yourself that Islam in Iran has "more in common with Zoroastrianism than Islam".  This then perhaps indicates the fact that people have taken the ideology or religion of their invaders and rulers and moulded it in their own image, they have shaped it to their needs, they have turned it into their weapons of resistance against that same enemy. This was the birth of Shiia Islam, an Iranian Islam.  So beside the official formal Islam which is coercive and rules from above, there is another Islam - or multitudes of Islams - which lives in people's hearts and is attuned to their lives, it gives them hope, meaning, strength, courage, quest for justice, and yes, a fighting spirit!  

I am not hear to preach Islam; I am not religious myself.  I came into this thread to expose fabricated propaganda and to oppose misrepresentation.   Other religions too have their institutionalized or formal versions and are guilty of crimes.  Would we dare or indeed would it be right to insult Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism for the crimes committed in their names - which are known and numerous?  And to insult their followers because of the crimes committed by their official leaders in the name of their 'formal' religions?  

To attribute all our shortcomings to Islam even official Islam fails to appreciate the complexity of the many factors and processes involved in shaping society and politics.  If you wish to expose the injustices and backwardness of what you call 'formal Islam', I have no objection to that, people in Iran are doing it through their real and risky struggle.  What I oppose is Islamophia, lies and misrepresentation.  

Dear Kaveh, I will be away for the weekend and I think I have written enough on this thread to have made myself amply clear.  I am sure we will have lots of opportunity to say hello on other blogs ;) 

Dear Detective Sam

Thank you for your 2 links, I visited briefly....Press TV admitted that after the election was over, Iranians from 6 continents protested the election outcome.....apparently Press TV is a big liar and got the facts wrong 'cause they did not know that you are from Antarctica according to your you-tube account, so there are Iranian protesters from 7 continents, not 6.
Thanks for your comments about those young girls. The whole thing is just sad!

yolanda

Now that's smart!

Yolanda says:

The debates can raise my stress level, lower my self-esteem, compromise my immune system, and shorten my life expectancy! It is not worth it! Not at all!

well said! :o)

IRANdokht

This is not as if Jimmy

was making up the concept which in effect was his intention.I saw those palestinian pix too on another site & one look was enough to call the story behind it fake & just some rascals having fun. But it,s not as if Jimmy was making up facts outta fiction since we are not blind to see tens of thousands of 11-14 yrs old girls being practicaly sold or traded across middle east in Palestine, Iran & every where else...Aftab-yazd last year in just   2 provinces(Khorasaan & Sisstan) reported that between 1998-2008 there were a total of over 8000 girls between ages of 10 to 15 who were forced to marry Afghanii,Iranian & Arab men much older than them. So crying wolf will not wash away the facts.

//www.iranianidentity.blogspot.com/

//www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Dear Louie Louie

Thank you for telling me that they label me as Neo-Nazi. It is sooooo absurd! I had no clue! I did not read all the posts 'cause some of them are really long. I am ADD, so the long posts can turn me off....anyway, I am toooo busy to debate with them 'cause I have to go back to work pretty soon. I did join a debate one time on a different thread, at the end, I saw profanity......it is not worth it! So I told myself that no more bloodbath debates, just come here to get some education, inspiration, some good laughs, and some freedom of expression. The debates can raise my stress level, lower my self-esteem, compromise my immune system, and shorten my life expectancy! It is not worth it! Not at all!

thanks,

yolanda

Dear Yolanda

The women you see in the audience are peaches no more nobody wants to eat them up. There is one all covered up, she is either a true peach or a very scary looking one that nobody wants to see.

There are some here who really want to cover up the stench and if they are reminded they label you as a zio-nazi. You see.

Dear Setareh,

You said:

  ..........."What the government does in the name of Islam is one thing, what people believe and practice in their daily lives and get strength and meaning from, is another".............

Every part of IR is based on Islam. All the Ayatollah's and hojatoleslams and other akhunds receive their title from the official religious structures of the Shiite sect. therefore they are the official representatives of the religion. Recently there have been some dissent in the rank of the mullah's, but that does not detract from the fact that IR still represents the official face of Shiite Islam. What is being done by IRI is not being done in the name of Islam, it is Islam.

Who speaks for Shiite Islam? Who speaks for the Catholic Church? What you seem to be saying is that the people who have spoken for the religion(since its birth), don’t really speak for it? Can you really be more Catholic than the Pope or the chuch?!!

If the people believe and practice and get strength & meaning from their own version of Islam, it does not make this version of Islam the official version and this is where i think the root of the problem is. Islam was never accepted in Iran in all its official glory!! The version practised and believed in at Iranian homes over the last 1200 years is the illegitimate version of Islam. 

Until the people change the structures of Shiite Islam so that it takes into account their belief and practices, it is not only legitimate but also necessary to highlight the obvious link between official Shiite Islam and the atrocities committed  in Iran over the last 30 years.

KP

Jimzbund - Sobh bekhair!

I don't disagree with you there, Jimmy.  Many who commit those crimes believe they are carrying out the will of Allah; but that is the case with all fanatics from all ideologies, religious and non-religious.  Also when people view the world as black and white, with no shades of grey to contemplate, examine and hold back, they feel righteous in their criminality and wrong-doings.  This is not exclusive to those thugs in Iran or to religions.  What do you think fascists thought when they were killing Jews, that they were doing something horrible and inhuman?  No, they thought they were getting rid of what they called "vermin" and purifying their country and their race.  What do American occupiers think in Iraq having killed and maimed millions of innocent civilians and having destroyed a country? They too think they are fighting in the cause of democracy and human rights!!  Human beings always find justification.  

I agree with you that open media and education enables people to break free and think for themselves, that is EXACTLY WHY I oppose misinformation, black propaganda, and manipulation and fabrication of news!!   Islamic fanatics in Iran are not the only liars and manipulators, many of their enemies are far more sophisticated and powerful in their brainwashing and propaganda.  I regard both camps as my enemy.

I now have to work, Jimmy! Have a good day.

ps - I learnt many of my moral and human values in a Muslim family who instilled in me values of tolerance, patience and compassion.  There are many shades of grey ... :)

Farhad khane aziz

Mamnoon for your support.

You know, Things do not have to and should not get personal if some people would learn to restraint themselves and respect other's right to rebuttle. Whether they have issued permission for that or not. I hate to see being deleted or having to go on arguing using the same tactic other commentator uses, But as i am sure you know and have seen, he over-analyzes the words and comes up with a totally erratic and misguided interpretation of what has just been said and that makes you frustrated and you just can not leave it unreplied to...

Dear Setareh Cheshmakzan

Thank you for your comments about the mass wedding. It is such a sad story from every angle! It is saaaaad! .....So they got married out of obligation, not because of romantic love? Wow! I don't have anything else to say.....

Thank you so much for your post, which really makes me think!

yolanda

Setareh, sobh beh khayr

what I meant was , you see more attack on islam by Iranians because they are getting informations through books, TV, Internets  on the real history of islam and not what they have been fed through controlled media and Akhunds for the past centuries.I beleive that people should have free access to information and then they can make up their minds. Many people don't even know what they beieve in and that's dangerous as then they become manipulated by the Akhunds so easily. You think at he person who enjoys raping in the Evin prison thinks that he is doing a crime ? no he thinks he is doing the will of Allah , so religion being a privatematter as long as it is confined to the homes is fine . Please don't get the impression that I am ascribing words to you.

Bund, Jimzbund

Reason #13

I am so glad that ThePope loaded the 5 videos about the way IRI enforces hijab law in Iran. I watched them all. I recall last year World Tae Kwon Do ( or some kind of Oriental martial art sport) Championship was held in Japan. An Iranian athlete was disqualified and sent home 'cause she refused to take off her hijab during the competition. AN made a big deal about the incident and asked the organizer to change its rules , so girls can compete with hijab. I have no idea if the rules have been changed! I just feel terribly sorry that this hard-working Iranian girl had to give up the competition because of this type "technicality". I watch sports and always admire the hard-working athletes. I read about their stories to draw inspirations from them. A lot of times, athletes have to work very hard, discipline themselves, and do the boring routines over and over. Sometime they can get injured or even disabled, but they love the sports and are willing to make the sacrifice to become the best in the world. It is sooooo sad that this Iranian Tae Kwon Do lady was deprived of the opportunity to shine on the world stage 'cause IRI is soooo anal about the hijab. I hope IRI can be more flexible with the Islamic dress code. It is hard to play sports when you are wrapped up like a burrito, you can get heat stroke, please be realistic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
//www.payvand.com/news/08/oct/1162.html
If you are just a housewife, you can dress like that:
//www.rightpundits.com/?pp_album=main&pp_cat=&pp_image=Ahmadinejad_Wife.jpg
if you want to play sports, forget it!
   Iranian women are beautiful, brilliant (60% of college kids are girls) , and very brave! I admire them so much! If they are given the opportunities, they can make a big difference!
thanks,
yolanda

Dear Yolanda

I agree with you that the absence of choice for those widows is sad; they and other Palestinians living under Israeli occupation and brutality have very little choice, you are right.  They don't HAVE TO marry their brothers-in Law.  If you have noticed, those grooms are very young men and perhaps they would not have made that choice of marrying their brothers' widows themselves, if they did not feel obliged by conscience and tradition to take care of them and their welfare.  Perhaps it is important to bear in mind that we are not talking about romantic love and happy-ever-after and choice when you are dealing with people under occupation and in a concentration camp style city, with no job, security, food, basic healthcare, adequate water and electricity, and all those blessings we take for granted, including choice of lovers and partners ..

Kashani jaan, Kourosh jaan

Kashani, how is the weather in Hiafa. Hope your training is going well and August is not too hot up there. Kourosh jaan, make sure Kashani gets enough "wind"! Enjoy the Israeli beaches!

Dear Louie Louie

    Thank you for your comments. I failed to understand the videotape 'cause I did not see adult women standing next to those guys. I watched the video one more time and did see women in black chador in the audiences. If they say, those are brides, that is ok, so I don't have to worry that much! It is sad that those women lost their husbands, but it is a little strange that so many of them decided to marry their brothers-in-law.....well, as long as they are happy......... I have to say that sometimes I worry too much for nothing.

Thanks again for your comments!

yolanda

Louie Louie - more Zionist anti-Islam propaganda?

You are talking propaganda again!  Those Palestinian widows are living in a society that has been under a brutal israeli siege for over a year now and are living in appalling abject poverty and suffering because of Israeli occupation, siege and violence against that society.  The ones who don't give a shit are not the Palestinians in Gaza, the ones who don't give a shit are the Israeli criminals who have committed these atrocities and those who shamelessly support and justify their crimes. 

Also one reason that those women are not shown is because these pictures are selected for propaganda and have chosen to show the images of the young girls as "childbrides" (sic).   Another possible reason is that for them, it is a necessity for survival and not a celebration of joy.  They are grieving widows.  If you are claiming that in Muslim societies generally images of the bride is not shown, then do a search of the government organized weddings in Iran and see numerous photos of brides and grooms in collective celebrations.  

Yolanda

It should be added that there are many of those poor widows who really not interested to get married to these guys but they have to because they live in a society that really does not give s..t about women and she does not tell you that the reason behind showing up the little girls is because the poor women are not suppose to be seen by namahram which means no men other than their husbands, you see.

Jimzbund - Did I say people should not resist and fight?!

Jimzbund, I have been persistently opposing misinformation and fabricated propaganda, whilst simultaneously made clear my revulsion against the crimes committed in the IR.  I have shown that the Palestinians Childbrides story was a vicious lie; you also presented the evidence of the fabricated story of a 6 year old boy whose arm was going to be crushed under a truck because of thieving.  At the same time, I opposed virulent attacks on Islam (and indeed any other religion) as opposed to fair and informed criticism, whether in Iran or elsewhere.  I made it clear that I was opposed to the crimes of the IR and not once said people in Iran should be quiet in the face of torture, rape, murder and persecution.  How did you reach that conclusion?!  Please, if we are genuinely debating something, don't ascribe words or ideas to me which are not mine.  The majority of people in Iran are Muslims and many of whom who are fighting and risking their lives against this regime are Muslim too.  What the government does in the name of Islam is one thing, what people believe and practice in their daily lives and get strength and meaning from, is another.

Shab-e to ham bekhair. 

Farhad Aziz,

your points are well taken, everyone is entitled to their opinion which should be respected.

Shaad Zi

Bund, JimzBund

Setareh

you mentioned "  I view the attack on Islam in Iran, in the context of the widespread campaign of  Islamophobia in the West and the machinations it serves.  ". Although the attacks on Islam has intensified lately in the west due to obvious reasons ! but how can Iranians sit quietly when they are being oppressed, imprisoned, tortured , raped and killed in the name of Islam which they have no choice to leave . Also thanks to the internet Iranians have now access to all the books and information that was considered taboo ! e realize how much misinformation we were fed for years and what the truth is.  truth shall set you free.

shab beh khayr

Bund, JimzBund

KoroushS jaan, Just

KoroushS jaan,

Just wanted to tell you I support you all the way. These IRI supporter don't know their (you know what) from their (you know what). They think they can actually salvage reputation or legitimicy for their Fascist regime.

Keep pushing them back.

Jimzbund jaan, Aziz, I

Jimzbund jaan,

Aziz, I think you misunderstood me. I am and will always be a supporter of you because I am well aware that you care for Iran, have correctly identified whats wrong in Iran, and you are anti IRI regime and you stand up and expose IRI propaganda and its supporters on this site. For those reasons, I will always back you up no questions asked.

What I was trying to say was since we are better than IRI and its intolerant supporters, we should kick religion out of politics in Iran, but at the same time respect our fellow Iranians’ religious beliefs. We should do that because we are better than them. See how IRI supporters act? Best example of intolerance. That’s who they are, that’s not who we are. that’s not saying you’re intolerant, the very contrary, I have also said before that there are many in Iran (and numbers increasing) who support a military intervention by the U.S to get rid of the IRI regime. that’s how frustrated people are. that doesn’t mean I’m gonna bash them, all I’m gonna say is I understand your frustration and I am on your side, but  I do not condone your approach.  

I am very happy that people like you are speaking out and are active. Please keep up the good work, and again, remember that we support you. 

Kharmagas

Sheeshaki bar jamale zeebayate Pessar jan. I will tell him you called.

Funneir than you and this kiddo? I don't think so. You guys have brought new meaning to the term circus. It is because you and the entertainment you provide that this world thrives.

Iraneh azad

Paranoia runs rampant, with him and his little buddy ol' pal. He called for back up :)

If that happens then we will know for a fact that indeed the local psychaitrist will have his hand full with him for a while.

he has always been funny! (to Q)

Q, to Mr. Sheeshaki's credit, he has always been funny!

Kouroshs Jan

Good stuff. Agree with you 100%! Watch, I will be called a stalker for agreeing with you and flagged:))))))