MeyBokhor_Manbarbesuzan

Double A

you are just weird! u need help dude.

Face the Facts Like a Man

Much to the chagrin of all you anti-U.S. crowd out there, you will have to suffer through knowing this undeniable fact: in the Saberi case, the United States won and the Islamic Republic of Iran lost. The IRI took Sabri hostage so that it give the new U.S. President a “warning”, and to secure the release of its goons in Iraq. The tactic did not work for either purpose. The U.S. didn’t flinch and the IRGC spies and saboteurs in Iraq are still locked up. Instead, the U.S. told those despots in Tehran, in a very subtle tone, that if they didn’t release Saberi they had another thing coming in the form of crippling sanctions. The IRI’s pants, in turn, turned brown, and they released Saberi.

So, just get used to it. The United States of America is the ONLY superpower in the world. IT calls the shots, not some two bid sandal wearing mullah in Qom. And this will remain the same for decades and generations to come, and no amount of banging of your heads against the wall, or writing silly essays on this site, is going to change that fact.

PS, the IRI operatives in Iraq will remain there as long as WE say so!

When you read the uninformed

When you read the uninformed comments here, from those who have heard something and then form an opinion without ever been involved in the current Iranian judiciery system, my only response is to laugh.
They leave me no other choice, especially the lata-elat the uninformed long trip home has written.
Currently I have four law suits going in Iran.
My suggestion is to take a trip to Iran and observe without bias.
Stop being manipulated by the western press and learn about the Iranian society by participating yourself.
Above all make sure as an Iranian your actions do not harm Iran's short and long term intrests, helping the enemies of Iran.

wow

you skipped all the other posts discussing an actual issue to address comments i made LAST WEEK????  not even addressing my comments but rather a general dissing of me.  does someone have a bone to pick or what!  and a little advice... you gave yourself away when you used the additonal reference to "t".  ain't too many people know that my friend...lol.  but that's cool.  you and your little posse can vent all you want.  i'm not sure what your point actually is, except to derail the post and try to pick a fight.

i do have a lot of respect for some iranians.  not all, that's for sure.  :-).  and i have no problem with someone pointing out our... americans... flaws.  i've done it numerous times myself.  what i don't like are hypocrites.  perhaps that hits just a little too close to home for ya. 

why you're blaming ME for your problems... i don't know.  it's not because of me that you can't live in your vatan and say what you want.  maybe you don't have a cute iranian hubby of your own.  again, not my problem.

but honey... you don't rule iranian.com and i can say and do whatever i wish.  you don't like it... tough.  :-) 

oh, and by the way.  thanks for using the term "wife" this time.  i appreciate that!  :-0

The anonymous fish/American wife/T. parade

give it up. she will always repeat the same bit about how much she adores iranians, their food, their men (hers), and how sad Iran is because of the IRI. WE GET IT.

She also has "lots and lots of respect" seeping out of her body for these Iranians - UNTIL they say how much they do not respect America and/or policy. Personally, I envy this "wife". She gets to have a cute Iranian "hubby" who will flirt with her here and defend her. AND she gets to have the advantage of living in her homeland and saying what she wants about Iran. How much I wish Iranians could have the same. But back to my original point, arguing with her about Iran is pointless. She will always come back to "I can still love Iran and say all I want about how Iranians are to blame and that is because I am white, Christian, married to an Iranian who misses his homeland so I will speak on his behalf."

It's gotten old. I know people here have complained about the Iranian women's genre going on in the publishing world. Well, here is another genre "I married an Iranian and he or she misses the homeland and it breaks my achey breakey heart!"

Alright I misunderstood the

Alright I misunderstood the last part of Kurush's point so I'll make my own (and this is diving into the realm of conspiracy but it's not like that's uncommon here) on how spying could hurt Iran's progressive movement.

We are aware that foreign nations have in the past undermined Iran's movements when they did not fall under the power of their influence. Mossadeq is the typical example, some might say the Iran-Iraq war was also an attempt to engage in this kind of undermining of a fledgling government (I'm not going to speculate on this when thesises have been written on it) but after the war there has been a period of general 'stability', 1) either the said nations gave up (highly unlikely based on historic patterns) or they succeeded or they're still trying...

We are also aware that when the US wants a government to fall, they've generally been pretty successful. Surely it wouldn't take them 20 years, unless there is some benefit to it (or perhaps I'm overestimating them).

We are quite aware that foreign nations have made sketchy back-room door deals with Iran in the past, and there is no reason that none of this is not going on right now. In fact one might think that the past 20 years of stability in the post-war era might be due to some of these deals that get all the parties what they 'want'.

Now I am not going as far as saying Iranian government is having tea-parties with the US government. However, the notion that there could be contacts within either govs, the notion that there is you-scratch-my-back-I-scratch-yours deals exist. Just as a spy could gain the names of dissidents for purposes of recruitment, the same spy could gain the trust of and names of dissidents to be used as bargaining chips in these types of deals. It's not like this hasn't been done before either.

Anyway, politics is much more convoluted than any of us can imagine.

I think Kurush made a very

I think Kurush made a very interesting observation which I really want to see addressed, but everyone seems to have ignored so far. He points out how spying and backdoor deals may actually be harm Iran's progressive movements.

Cat & Mouse game
by Kurush (not verified) on Wed May 13, 2009 10:09 AM PDT

"Saberi, as I have stated a few times, was not what she appeared to be. We often hear that the USA has earmarked half billion dollars for suversive programs directed at IRI, yet these black-op projects never see the light of the day. yet when something surfaces, as did the Saberi's case, we express astonishments & incredulity. In the late 1990s, the NYTIMES reported that the CIA had destroyed some documents pertaining to the 1953 coup against Dr. Mossadegh & his govenment after a legal request had been made through the Freedom of Information Act. Why would CIA destroy an old document, risking legal lawsuits, especailly a document about an event which is pretty much well-known, even 50 years after the fact? Some one had been tipped by painstaking research about this document gathering dust in some CIA archive, yet no sooner the FIA was invoked than the CIA destroyed it forthwith. What was the mystery? Some well-established Iranians, perhaps even respected in IRI circles, who might still be serving the CIA? Someone's interest, or life for that matter, was being protected? Someone still alive & active in the CIA?
Saberi's function was that of an 'agent of influence.' As such, she would have known & interviewed quite a number of political activists and dissidents in Iran over the 6 years of her stay. The profile of these dissidents would have been utterly important to the CIA & MI6 & MOSSAD,- fertile ground for recruitment. How many names she passed on would be an unresolved mystery. The candidates picked from her list of names would have gone through rigorous pyschological analyses and in due time contacted, recruited, funded, assigned tasks. Saberi's exposure has obviously rendered her contacts compromised as well. I wouold not be surprised, that the CIA/MI6 have gone through frenetic attemps to exfiltrate their rotten apples since her arrest."

dear long trip report

thanks for your response. you make a very good case for non-interference in iran, whether you mean to or not. like in other societies, the revolution in iran was a major learning experience, and despite all the internal shortcomings, it is the responsibility of the nation to map out her own future. choosing the lesser of 2 evils is the inevitable choice in most elections. pushing the system into a more open and democratic path with every chance is one of the things iranians can do, among others. and i also agree with your sentiments about politics, but here for example is a chance to reduce the chances of war by voting against ahmadinejad and for someone with a more reconciliatory tone to respond to the current chance for detente.

on Saberi, i would recommend this superb Al Jazeera video

peace

MiNeum71

Thank you for your comment. I guess I challenged if voting for anyone in IRI in my last post. Maybe I already answered your concerns. The revolution was FULL of lies and dishonest at its core. The objective by all the competing groups, left, right, intellectuals, was NOT to give people an informed choice or provide a better governance, but rather to take over the country; and each thought that it would be shrewder than others and will end up taking over by lining up behind khomeini as they focused ONLY on the expulsion of the shah without thinking about what would come next.

As for voting for Mosavi, he is a known face with a past record, and I am afraid that that record was not bright. He cannot and will not challenge the foundations of the islamic republic. He will be the lesser evil of a gang of very evil persons. Is that what we want; to endorse and content with a lesser evil?

Dear Nilou

Thanks for your comments. I, once again, agree with some of your points and disagree with others.

Let me first say that I am neither a sociologist nor a political scientist; I also have no dog in this fight between islamists and anti-islamists. I am just an ordinary person who wants iran to be far more progressive than what it is, for the sake of those who live there and those who wish to return home some day. I even do not care if the government has religious tendencies had it been able to respond to the needs of ordinary people. But I have lost faith in ideologies in all their forms and shapes: religion, marxism, unregulated capitalism, and even idealized democracy. They all trivialize complexity of human nature and try to simplify it in a few earthly rules. They all fail, at different levels.

The problem with today's iranian system is far deeper than who is elected:

(1) Constitution of IRI (that a vast majority of people voted for in 1980). That basically makes a mockery of democracy by "legally" placing the ultimate decision in the hands of unelected and fakely elected individuals. I believe khatami failed when he failed to pass the freedom of press laws that khamenei blocked. That was the end of his presidency. He failed again when he could not stand between the clerical oppression and student uprisings, most of whom landed in long term jails with various degrees of torture. He failed a third time when he failed to bring to surface and prosecute those responsible for the chain murders. Not to mention his lack of competence in running the country and delivering some basic services to the people.

(2) There is no rule of law in IRI (even the codified IRI laws). A good deal of what IRI does is against their own laws; but laws are understood to be for the ruled and not the ruling class.

(3) Cultural -- maybe we agree on this! From all I hear, despite all the short-comings of pahlavis, iranian society moved rapidly from the rise of reza shah (from a disastrous disintegrating country with single digit literacy and no middle class) to fall of the late shah (a country with mid-high double digit literacy with a good sized middle class). That by itself created a great deal of problems. I believe the story of iranian revolution should be written and re-written with a fresh look. Iranians blamed everything on the shah and nothing on themselves. Khomeini was the ideal person: he was a lying charlatan fanatic followed by a nation of fools. Today one needs to be a James Bond to cross a street in down town tehran, a shrewd articulator to get a routine job done in a bank, a well-informed not to be overcharged by amateur cab drivers, or a risk taker to take on a doctor who wants to get your money and run without delivering any attention to your cure. Individuals look mostly after their own interests, as leaders do, and ignore the welfare of the society where possible. All these acquired "technologies" (banking, driving, doctoring, etc) are placed in the hands of the people without any training. We need someone who tell the people of their faults, and none of this crowd is of the type that can guide people.

You view IRI too positively. These people, besides being incompetent, do not believe in the concepts of nation and progress as we do. For them nation is nation of islam (otherwise you are either a zionist or a racist, a taaghooti or a shahollahi), and progress is to be able to buy tomatoes on the market (as ahmadinejad said something to that effect), pray to god, and await arrival of Mehdi while yielding to the rule of his representatives in tehran the governance and control and dispense of country's wealth. If they could, they would take iran back to what we see in Taleban afghanistan. Khomeini is quoted as comparing women's right to vote (after the shah's white revolution) to prostitution. He simply could not reverse that when he came to power in 1979, otherwise he probably would have (as he reversed more religiously clear hejab). So I have no faith in anyone in this crowd as much as you do. None will be able to challenge any fundamental ideologies on which the islamic republic is based. IRI is a layman's fraud.

As for your other point; it is true that external affairs influence elections; however, in the examples that you brought up, even if the elections had gone in the opposite direction, they would have made little difference in internal governance of the country that you mentioned. The ingenuity of western system of government is that they leave people alone to a large extent. I may disappoint you here, but I have lost faith in any manifestation of slogans, democracy included. Democracy is meaningless without honest and truthful leaders (and the press) AND an informed public; both of which are very difficult to achieve, even in western democracies with a history of voting. Voting without honesty and knowledge leads to tools of deceit and public manipulation (that likes of khomeini benefited from quite well).

If you look at performance of democracies and who choices of people were in the last decade in US, UK, France, Italy, ..., you will see that those elected leaders are nothing to write home about. I know it is fashionable to scream for democracy, but I am not sure that I would prefer a broken democracy to a healthy dictatorship. I do not think it would be easy to push this crowd who rule iran by purely democratic means and/or it may take a long long time, certainly beyond our life times. After all, millions and millions of iranians voted for either ahmadinejad or rafsanjani in the last election and we know where the outcome has led us.

Let me finish on a semi-positive note. I think broad education is key in advancement of the country. And I am not exclusively talking about engineering or medical science, although they help too, and it appears that we have more educated youths (in numbers) than in 1979. There is no harm in knowing. I want people to know, to know far more about their history and their religion and their society, as well as about those of other nations; although not in the form that have been taught from the beginning of pahlavis. I do not think many people know how religion has behaved anytime it has been in position of power in iran (or any place else). Religion is taught in the form of idealized words of wisdom and good deeds, quoted from Qoran, Mohammad, and Ali with little attention to how religion behaved morally when it has been in charge. Oppression of iranians by Arab Caliphs is a historical fact that have been hidden from iranians (and this is not exclusively related to islam). That kind of behaviour continued by almost any ruler of iran who was religious. I want people to read writings of khomeini (e.g., where he graphically describes flirting of the prophet with 6 year old aisha) and those of kasravi and dashti on the opposite sides of religion. People should be taught to place morality above ideology to prosper and that needs a strong leadership that this crowd cannot deliver. People should also be taught of modern system of governance and its flaws. That is what was missing from the revolution of 1979. Even the left-over mosaddeq supporters lined up behind khomeini and rushed to cheer murder of all the shah's generals as if that would solve all our problems. That first step was neither wise nor moral. I am afraid that I place the responsibility of their nativity (and their criminality) upon their and people's shoulders. Had people really cared for a better governance, they had many many opportunities to establish their will rather than delegating it to a mulla and his blind followers and profiteers. They had plenty of time on hand to pour into streets screaming for khomeini and party of god, but they kept silence when khomeini's return started with mass murder of shah's generals without due process, confiscation of people's properties, veiling of women, closure of newspapers, hanging of first newspaper editor (interesting accused of spying), passing of a theocratic dictatorship constitution, ..., almost all within the first year of revolution; and the people who revolted all kept silence.

I come to the conclusion that people lied to themselves and deceived themselves on a massive scale in 1979. They were simply not knowledgeable enough to know what they really wanted and how to get it.

Good day!

long trip report

thanks for your response. and thanks even more for keeping it cool :)

i also suspected that much of what you were saying was in fact quoting others rather than personal judgements.

i think where we differ in our perceptions about iran is mainly in our reading of iranian history. if you factor in where we were at before the revolution in terms of political, economic and scientific developments you may get a more positive image of today. we have a problem with facing realities about iran's 'underdevelopment' because of our magnificent history, and because of the late shah's pretensions that were ingrained in our culture - that 'aryan' thing - by the time he left. fact is, after the Safavid period, we became a marginalised impoverished country that suffered from malnutrition and periods of starvation. were it not for oil we would might have looked more like afghanistan today. who knows?

iran only became majority urban in the 1990s. how long will it take to become a modern democracy? it never was a democracy. if anything, no ruler has sustained regular elections and at least a superficial commitment to accountability through uninterrupted elections like the mullahs have done for 30 years. that was one of the main achievements of the revolution.

turkey, japan and germany have been way ahead of us since the longest time. japan and germany were powerful enough to challenge the whole world to war. their success post WWII is because of their human resource capabilities

on internal versus external issues, let's not forget that the internal image of the IRI is strongly linked to how it deals with foreign 'foes'. in a sense i agree with you in that i believe once you remove the foreign foes, then the IRI will HAVE to deal with, and succumb to internal issues. IRI needs foes. it is not dissimilar to the way the Bush administration handled affairs. it led to an economic collapse with internal issues causing republican demise at the polls. Bush made khatami fail and ahmadinejad succeed. the iranian revolution made carter lose and reagan win the elections. external factors have a direct impact on internal ones in both Iran and the US.

i am not in the business of blaming the foreigner. we are responsible for what and who we are, and i totally agree with you about korea, and why not mention malaysia? it is even a better example. with the same reasoning, one HAS to compare iran with the neighbourhood because that is where it is, culturally, politically, physically etc. comparing iran to far eastern or western democracies and concluding that iran has 'failed' is to be looking for excuses for our 'failure'. iran is iran, and it will not be the US. it is far too proud, self-assured and determined to be anything other than itself.

this may be iran's 'badbakhti'. other countries with little or no history and fully subjugated by foreign forces (that 'nightmare' that negates all sense of self-worth) have emerged as 'happy' democracies with a modern outlook. we will have to be chained to our history just because of who we are. it's like the torch of ancient wisdom and tradition is our burden. somehow, we have chosen to be the agents of the new way that marries the old with the modern and finds a way to move ahead and beyond. i don't think the iranian psyche can handle total absorption of the new at the expense of the old. we still cut ourselves for hossein after 1400 years!

peace

Dear "long trip report",

I read your extraordinary comments again, it´s nice to meet someone who doesn´t blame others for what happened in Iran the last 30 years.

I hope I´m allowed to mention one small mistake I noticed. It simply is true that subjective 98% wanted the Revolution, but the Islamic Revolution was a counter revolution, and not the majority of the population wanted it. Nobod knows what would have happened to the IRI without Iraq´s invasion ...

Anyway, I haven´t been to Iran for many (many) years, I´d like to know what you think about the elections and their impact. I wrote the following comment, maybe you can comment on it.

----------

Iranians like to quip that they have a population of 70 million — and as many different opinions. But Iranians are very strange and opiniated.

Majority of the population say, a non-Khamenei [means not supported by Khamenei] president will have only minimal powers. And they say, Khatami´s presidency was the evidence. Majority of the population say, the new president is a part of the ruling system. And they say, Khatami´s presidency was the evidence.

This is wrong. They forget: 12 years ago they voted for Khatami and then they thought, he would kick out Khamenei and friends without any further support. Who supported him? I can´t remember, that 1978 people said, Yes, we want Khomeini, he will fight Shah. No, they demonstrated for their own freedom every day for many months, because they were convinced of the change; and many of them were tortured or even killed, but still they fought. Not Khomeini kicked out Shah, the tremendous mass of Iranians did it many weeks before Khomenei arrived Tehran. 1997-2005? Weak performance of the liberal Iranians.

In 2000 Bush won (!?) the US-elections. And 2004 nobody wanted him again, but he won the next elections also. Why? It´s true, John Kerry was not that charismatic challenger, but still he was the only challenger. USA was not ready for a change. And you know what happened anyway in 2008. It was not Obama, who won against McCain, it was the society which wanted this change at any price. And they did a lot for it.

Iran? It doesn´t matter, who becomes the next president. If the Iranians don´t support him also after the elections, the change won´t work. Many people say, Don´t vote, show civil disobedience. But also civil disobedience needs commitment and involvement.

I know (I guess) that today the majority of the population supports the prevalence of modern ­ideological thinking in the context of Iran and Islam, and that the democracy movement seeks a balance of power between state institutions and civil society, to guarantee the rule of law, good governance, accountability, and collective and individual freedoms – as well as the role of religion in politics.

But also this needs a high involvement of the people. Of the Iranians? Iranians have poor social behaviour. Evidence? They are good in Ghar Kardan, Lajh-bazee Kardan, Nale Kardan, and if there is still enough air to breath, Foh'sh Dadan. This is the opposite of involvement.

1997-2005? Not Khatami failed, Iranians failed, they didn´t deserve the change.

I vote for Mir-Hossein Mousavi.

----------

Anonyfairus

thanks - will certainly try :)

Nilou and others

Others: thank you for your comments.

Nilou: I agree with some of your points and disagree with majority of others. I do not know when and for how long you have been in iran lately. Observation from distance is far from empathy from inside. Unfortunately, once one lives in the comfort of the west, (s)he more easily fails to "sense" the problems that people face day to day. Let me see if I can respond to some of the issues that you raised.

let me start by addressing the topic: i agree with those who say we do not have enough information to make a judgement about Saberi. Fore sure the Iranian judiciary is totally controlled by the mullahs and is hard to trust. it is one of our main problems in iran. for sure, too, it is not the only judiciary in the world with problems. those with a knowledge of world affairs know this. what we do know is that saberi was released far quicker than any guantanamo prisoner could hope for.

I agree here with you. The whole thing was a joke, either way that one looks at it: buying wine, working without license, spying, a LONG sentence, and a quick release. If you stick to one of these accusations or verdicts, the rest look like bad jokes. Therefore the only conclusion is that this whole thing is non-sense and only some political maneuver.

BUT, this whole thing is NOT an issue for iranians within. There are so many captured and there are so many that have nobody to give them a voice. The situation is a lot worse outside tehran as there is far less accountability and prisoners are routinely assualted, raped, etc. However, for iranians, that work like a horse to make a living, this is not an issue. Neither is occupation of Qods, even though the regime makes a big deal out of it.

If Saberi leaves iran today; if Qods is freed today; if IRI is allowed to work on its nuclear program anyway it want today, etc. Tomorrow "iranians" will face the exact same problems. Such events have no impact on iranian lives one way or the other. On the contrary, these issues are blessings for the regime to keep people on the edge and use them as a side show. Freedom for Qods is BAD for the regime since it loses one excuse to justify its behaviour.

now on to your missive about iran. i don't know how old you are, but you could have written that piece about iran in the 70s too. everyone was complaining back then too.

True, although I am too young to remember that, but there are complaints and there are complaints. There is a complaint with full stomach and a complaint with empty stomach. The former was the pre-1979 type, and the latter post-1979 kind.

we as a nation tend to complain a lot, and nothing is ever right. of course nothing is right when all your personal freedoms are trampled on on a daily basis. the imposition of islamic values by the state is simply unacceptable. but this tendency came from within iranian culture and it will go when iranian culture transforms itself.

I have no arguments here.

things in iran are not 'right'. but they are far 'righter' than in many other places, especially in the neighbourhood. those with a knowledge of world affairs know this. everything is relative. everything.

Depends on which neighborhood you are talking about. A good measure of the validity of your point here is to see if iranians within would leave the country for one of those neighborhood countries. They do leave for Turkey, Arab Emirates, and Armenia, but not for others. BUT I think it is a mistake to compare us with the neighborhood, as that means that we are pretty much doomed for the near future and maybe more.

your claim about all organizations being from the time of the shah is incorrect. there are far more universities, hospitals and health clinics in all locations than there ever was before, just as examples. and most were not planned before despite the claims on the streets.

Here I disagree with you. Of course some thing have been done. Even if dogs were in charge of iran, they would have done something in the past 30 years -- 30 years that countries like china, india, brazil, south korea, indonesia, malaysia, arab emirates, argentine, .... have moved on and progressed when they were on par with iran in 1979 or even behind iran. What IRI has done is more than offset by the harm that they brought to the country as a whole. You mentioned universities, let me add that: yes there are more universities, but most of them are tools of making money for rafsanjani clan, others are also not as free as they once were, university entrance exams are "said" to be sold by mullas (Palizdar (sp?) claimed that), and top universities are "the same" ones that were established by pahlavis (Shiraz Univ, Tehran Univ, Sharif Univ). Not a single top Univ. has been established by IRI that I know of. A student of Azad univ. was telling me that they do not learn anything in Azad univ. except that they buy a degree.

You don't want to go near hospitals and clinics issue. Do you really know what is going on there? Yes, there are facilities that we did not have -- such as MRI, ICU for heart patients, and open heart surgery. BUT this is all for rich. If you have moderate means (that is 90% of population) either no one treats you, or treat you like a dog. Remember 30 years has passed. That is a long time. Compare the situation when the late shah took over the country compared to when he left with when IRI took over the country and today. There simply is not comparison.

if you take basic UN stats on longevity, education, access to drinking water or health care, maternal mortality and other health indicators, you will see an improvement in iran's standing compared to her own past and internationally. the evidence flies in the face of the claims of those that depict a poverty-stricken and desperate picture of the country.

I have not looked at official statistics. I am not surprised if , e.g., there are more roads than in 1979. As I said, even dogs could do something if they were in charge. But the extent of what they have done is minor compared to the harm that they have brought. It is one thing to judge these numbers (some of which may be made up) from distance and it is another thing to sense what is going on. Having more paved roads, e.g., has minimal impact on lives of people who have no job, who cannot make a living, and are intimidated day in day out. Freedom and Economy are the main issues of the people.

as for buildings and pocketing profits, iran is not the only country with corruption. ever heard of the global financial crisis? it is really only about corruption. compared to her own past too, corruption in iran was not invented by the IRI. reshveh khori, party bazi etc are not new. they are abhorent, no denying that. but we all make choices that benefit our friends and families, sometimes at the direct expense of others. meritocracy is a splendid ideal, but for now it remains an ideal the world over. in my adult life, i have seen very few deserving leaders in countries like the US or UK.

True that corruption is a fact of life, BUT the extent of it is what matters, AND what that corrupt system does for the people in return. It is NOT fair to compare the corruption of IRI to the corruption of, say, the west. The comparison is ONLY fair when you also compare the service that the corrupt system delivers to people at the same time. Your comparison cannot be one-sided. If you are corrupt, but do essentially nothing worth 30 years of governing, that is unacceptable. If leaders are corrupt but deliver a system that people of world, you and me included, stand in line to get visa to enter the country, you are not arrested if you show few threads of hair, you can make a decent living, most of the time unemployment is below 5%, you can voice your opinion without landing in jail, .you have freedom of the press that can flag the corruption, etc..., then it is a corruption that one can accept as part of the genetics of the type of crowd that rule the country. In an absolute sense shah and his family were corrupt too, but he delivered far far more that anyone in the past 30 years, and oppressed far far less than IRI regime.

and something about the dire complaints in iran does not add up. when i was there last year, i noticed that my brother in law was about to buy a villa in shomal to the tune of half a million dollars. a holiday home at that price. but he is a truly devout man who loathes the regime. he works as a management consultant, is morally impeccable, and has no one supporting him. and he is often looking for jobs in between jobs. yet he can afford a dream villa in shomal.

Life is not bad for some 10% of population (that is about 7 million people), but 90% are not as lucky as they should work like a horse to make a minimal living. There are so many youths without jobs, there are so many girls without husbands since there are so few who can afford marrying, etc. Again, generalization beyond that 10% of the population is a mistake and contrary to commoners' evidence.

of course one single example is not a good argument, but it was indicative of what i saw all around in tehran and in shomal where those villas are stll going up at breakneck speed. many complained like they were about to commit suicide out of desperation, but the wheels keep turning and most people manage fine.

I think you have been around those 10% crowd who "can" make a living. Yes there are condos in tehran which traded for $5M last year, but there are also ones who cannot afford the monthly rent. It depends on if you are talking about 10% of the population or 90% of it.

as for the claim that the revolution was a foreign conspiracy, that is another one of those famous iranian conspiracy theories. a lack of self belief that will always find a foreign master or a 'god' at the helm of events. but the revolution, as disappointing as it was in the end, was among the most popular revolutions of all time. you may be able to stage a coup with foreign influence as in 1953, but can you really get the great majority of a whole nation to go out on the streets through foreign manipulation alone? or is it more logical to accept that a shah imposed by a coup against a nationalist movement that wanted to nationalise oil eventually led to a popular uprising?

I simply stated what was said in iran. I myself somewhat agree with you, except that other nations are after their own interests, period. Once they realized the instability of shah's regime, they changed sides and that snow-balled the revolution. I read somewhere that khomeini had contact with US administration and convinced them that shah must go and gave them guarantees on protecting their interests (oil, opposing soviets, etc.). I think you are also contradicting yourself when you give too much credence to 1953 coup as there were two opposing "iranian" sides, one won and the other lost; we tend to idealize people like mosaddeq without any record to prove their loyalty to the people. Had shah eliminated khomeini in 1979, we would be considering him an equally exceptional patriotic "iranian." Unfortunately he survived to prove us that those 98% of the people who lined up behind him were all so wrong and gambled with then future of iran so badly, and that he was anything but "iranian".

now based on the above reasoning, you can go ahead and call me an islamist. but you should know that i am a staunch atheist. only, i have seen the world, grown a little wiser, and i believe that the best way to remove the regime is by befriending it.
once you remove its foreign enemies, especially one so vicious as the US can be, you will undermine the hysteria and the excuses of the regime for behaving in such an anti-revolutionary manner. this will inevitably allow iranian culture and democracy to flourish. right now, it is all about war and threats and no one has the chance to breathe.

I am afraid I have to disagree with you here. There is no point in pressing against a wall of cement for eternity. Foreigners are the way they are, the way they have always been, and we have no influence and time to waste changing their behaviour. What we can change is our behaviour. If we are wise and strong (not exclusively militarily) no one can harm us. Why US has no problem with Norway (with lots of oil resources)? Why countries like japan, germany came out of WWII defeated and destroyed and 30 years later, became prosperous and we have not been able to do a damn thing in the last 30 years. Why do countries like S. Korea, China, India, even Turkey, make US bend for them and we only can scream and blame the west. I think that is a big mistake and an excuse for our own failures. West did NOT execute tens of thousands of prisoners, khomeini did. West does not steal from iranians day in day out, mullas do...

this is where obama is showing a touch of genius, and you would do well to support detente with iran.
many of us ask for patience and greater wisdom in dealing with iran's dilemma. others choose to scream for blood. i just don't get their motivation, let alone their name calling and insults.

In closing, what I consider very sad is that I strongly believe that iran has had the capability to be a prosperous country, at least since 1979. Look at iranians who immigrated to west, there are lots of educated scientists, entrepreneurs, doctors, etc. that have succeeded in the west, but their counterparts have failed in iran. We must ask why, and we must ponder to answer that.

Good Luck!

FAIR JUDGEMENT IS RARE! KEEP IT UP!

Dear Niloufar,

I appreciate your fair and unbiased judgements on matters concerning our country and the world. you are
fairly right in most of your judgements about Iran and I recommend to you to keep on going the same path by giving your un-prejudiced opinion in matters concerning our country.

I implore you to not get affected at all by intimidation by vatanforoushs and shahollahi brainwashed hollow individuals present in this website. Their brain drain has caused them a severe damaged reasoning to an extreme of eternal mal-function; therefore there is absolutely no hope for their treatment and it would be wise not to pay any attention to them.

I urge you to keep on your steady path of balanced reasoning...

Regards

long trip report

let me start by addressing the topic: i agree with those who say we do not have enough information to make a judgement about Saberi. Fore sure the Iranian judiciary is totally controlled by the mullahs and is hard to trust. it is one of our main problems in iran. for sure, too, it is not the only judiciary in the world with problems. those with a knowledge of world affairs know this. what we do know is that saberi was released far quicker than any guantanamo prisoner could hope for.

now on to your missive about iran. i don't know how old you are, but you could have written that piece about iran in the 70s too. everyone was complaining back then too.

we as a nation tend to complain a lot, and nothing is ever right. of course nothing is right when all your personal freedoms are trampled on on a daily basis. the imposition of islamic values by the state is simply unacceptable. but this tendency came from within iranian culture and it will go when iranian culture transforms itself.

things in iran are not 'right'. but they are far 'righter' than in many other places, especially in the neighbourhood. those with a knowledge of world affairs know this. everything is relative. everything.

your claim about all organizations being from the time of the shah is incorrect. there are far more universities, hospitals and health clinics in all locations than there ever was before, just as examples. and most were not planned before despite the claims on the streets.

if you take basic UN stats on longevity, education, access to drinking water or health care, maternal mortality and other health indicators, you will see an improvement in iran's standing compared to her own past and internationally. the evidence flies in the face of the claims of those that depict a poverty-stricken and desperate picture of the country.

as for buildings and pocketing profits, iran is not the only country with corruption. ever heard of the global financial crisis? it is really only about corruption. compared to her own past too, corruption in iran was not invented by the IRI. reshveh khori, party bazi etc are not new. they are abhorent, no denying that. but we all make choices that benefit our friends and families, sometimes at the direct expense of others. meritocracy is a splendid ideal, but for now it remains an ideal the world over. in my adult life, i have seen very few deserving leaders in countries like the US or UK.

and something about the dire complaints in iran does not add up. when i was there last year, i noticed that my brother in law was about to buy a villa in shomal to the tune of half a million dollars. a holiday home at that price. but he is a truly devout man who loathes the regime. he works as a management consultant, is morally impeccable, and has no one supporting him. and he is often looking for jobs in between jobs. yet he can afford a dream villa in shomal.

of course one single example is not a good argument, but it was indicative of what i saw all around in tehran and in shomal where those villas are stll going up at breakneck speed. many complained like they were about to commit suicide out of desperation, but the wheels keep turning and most people manage fine.

as for the claim that the revolution was a foreign conspiracy, that is another one of those famous iranian conspiracy theories. a lack of self belief that will always find a foreign master or a 'god' at the helm of events. but the revolution, as disappointing as it was in the end, was among the most popular revolutions of all time. you may be able to stage a coup with foreign influence as in 1953, but can you really get the great majority of a whole nation to go out on the streets through foreign manipulation alone? or is it more logical to accept that a shah imposed by a coup against a nationalist movement that wanted to nationalise oil eventually led to a popular uprising?

now based on the above reasoning, you can go ahead and call me an islamist. but you should know that i am a staunch atheist. only, i have seen the world, grown a little wiser, and i believe that the best way to remove the regime is by befriending it.

once you remove its foreign enemies, especially one so vicious as the US can be, you will undermine the hysteria and the excuses of the regime for behaving in such an anti-revolutionary manner. this will inevitably allow iranian culture and democracy to flourish. right now, it is all about war and threats and no one has the chance to breathe.

this is where obama is showing a touch of genius, and you would do well to support detente with iran.

many of us ask for patience and greater wisdom in dealing with iran's dilemma. others choose to scream for blood. i just don't get their motivation, let alone their name calling and insults.

Peace

God moves in mysterious ways

Are gynaecologists doing hymenoplasties prophets or just doing humanitarian work?

Ghobadi claimed ot be her

Ghobadi claimed ot be her fiance. right?
he is the joseph the carpenter.

To Mola/artificial intelligence... may13th 4:24...

Oh my god.

Mola nasreddin

Wait a second . You are doing what? You are trying to mend the broken relations between iranian and americans By calling them wite, christians and ass kissing zionists and insulting us on this website?
SO if i told you that i was not a bit insulted by her, would i then be classified as another ass-kisser?

Mola

You would like any woman with a pulse that would give you the time of day.

But the fact is you couldn't get their attention if you walked into a women's prison with a briefcase full of pardons.

I like angry white women!

but don't be cruel.

lol

don't you ever have anything intelligent to say?  must you always repeat the same old boring lies of old?  when will you grow a set and prove what you say?  NEVER.  because you can't.  therefore, i completely dismiss you as irrelevant and insignificant.  shoo, fly, shoo! 

Mola Nasredeen

AF is right. It has nothing to do with her race of religion. It is a known fact that the Islamic regime in Iran is blood thirsty and has tortured, executed, raped , stoned to death many innocent Iranians and has been a leader in International Islamic terrorism. If you condone these acts you do not deserve to be Iranian or I might say human being.

Thank you.

AF, aka, I'm Christian, I'm white, I must be right!

Right!

you really REALLY need to submit this to the "joke" section

mending broken relations between iranians and americans?  WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE FOOLING.  NOT americans... i can assure you.  this "we" you're talking about?  you and the DI are pathetic.  NO ONE believes for one second that you "care" for americans.  NO ONE.  if i've insulted YOU, don't dare to take that as a criticism of IRANIANS.  you stand alone in any contempt i might have.  don't now... or in the future... EVER PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH AGAIN.  you are a proven liar. 

i have great respect for iran and her people.  i have NO respect for you.  there is a huge difference.  if you can't understand that, ask someone for help.  i have been insulted by YOU and your leader, the DI, so many times i've lost count.  don't YOU start whining about insults at this late date. 

you best remember... turn about is fair play.  you insult me, you've open the door FOR insults.  don't cry tears for insults to iran when you and the DI insult the US and americans every chance you get.

Thank you Long Trip Report!

Its so funny, I was talking today with one of my Iranian customers who just came back from Iran. He spent 3 weeks there for Nourouze. He says the same exact thing as you. Very interesting. Thanks!

"Why doesn't she come back? they may put her in a big pot and

cook her and eat her flesh! What's she waiting for?" Asked my camel with a worried look.

"Iranians don't eat hauman flesh, rest assured" I replied and filled up his "akhor" with jo.

Long Trip Report

Thank you very much for adding what is probably the most accurate account of what is going on in Iran today.

I hope that your words will generate a mental image in the minds of these apologists that will never be erased.

long trip report

Best comment yet.  Very true.  That has been my experience as well.  In fact, in my last trip to Iran very recently, I noticed the smae things.

What you say about this site is also true.  I personally think that they are a collection of 1960's and 1970's leftover, out of touch leftist revolutionaries who don't live in Iran, ex-pats who travel to Iran every summer and spend their western earned dollars to wine and dine (and get hight) there, out of touch idiologues, IRI counter-intelligence operatives assisgned to internet propoganda, and plain old idiots. 

Again,  excellent comment.

As a reminder

Even if she( Roxana) was a spy( which she was not), so what? Does spying against hezbollah geopardize our national security? We don't have a national security in Iran.
The Islamic regime is anti the Iranian nation. it is a terrorist regime that hates Iran and Iranians. They hate the name nation and changed that to " Ommat-e Eslam". They even changed the name of our national parliament( majeles-e shoray-e melli) to the Islamic parliament( majles-e shoraye eslamy) after the Islamic revolution. How could anyone say spying against these Jihadist terrorist criminals can geopardize our national security? Does spying againts the Taliban in Afghanistan threathen their national security? If not , then why spying againts the Mullahs in Iran geopardize our national security?

I believe that unfortuanately many Iraninans still have a sheep like mentality that need to be herded. Even here on this website they talk about Ms Saberi being a spy.Look at millions of people who still vote for the so called presidential elections and other non-sense elections. Look at all the people who revolted in 1979 and actually voted for the "Islamic Republic"(a theocracy) that is still terrorizing them and has been a leader in international Islamic terrorism .I think that the Islamic terrorist regime in Iran is the best that Iran can produce and there will never be an improvement( not in the near future). All this things about past glory that some of us talk and brag aboutabout is all history .Shame on a culture that has to look back for glory but not today.