Salaam Iran

Kourosh

Perhaps had my posts and Holly's not been deleted, you would have a better idea of what is being discussed here, in the interest of a true exchange of ideas ;) 

Then comes

Iraniandudeee, pulls out a rpg, takes aim at the bus, and suddenly the world is much better off.

"You should not be afraid of the ideology but of the determination and will of the men behind it"

"A drowning man is not troubled by rain" Persian Proverb

FB and HollyUSA

FB

It's OK. Let them delete. I am keeping record of everything.

humanbeing

imbed instructions:

type the following 5 items with no spaces in between:

1. '['

2. 'video'

3. ':'

4. insert link (not the imbed link but the youtube page link for the video)

5. ']'

hope it works :)

Holly jan

I just came back and saw your comment deleted!!!!  However, I had copied it :)

In relation to 'arbitrariness' on the moderation, perhaps I did not clarify myself.  When I say arbitrary, I don't mean it could go either way!  I meant lawlessness, not sticking to standards, or more still not setting clear standards and changing the parameters to fit the occasion ;)  I entirely agree with you about increasingly one-sidedness.  

nuf for tonight ;)

i will miss you, rosie

don't know how long i'll be around either. i still have one big blog i want to do in the summer, after i learn how to embed.

stay true to yourself,

you are an inspiration

Was Rosie

I just posted this under VPK's thread. If you haven't seen it yet.

No, You didn't waste your time at all.

by vildemose on Thu May 06, 2010 02:06 PM PDT

was rosie: I just read you comment on Ayhab's appalling, infantile, and frankly perpostrous slander and defamation of DK.  I thought of writing him an email privately, which I normally never do. Ayhabs recent behavior and commentaries have all been erratic and conflicting to say the least. He shows signs of displaced "anguish"of some sort.

You have done a valiant job of pointing out to others how one cannot cross the lines with impunity on IC or anywherelse.

You should pat yourself on the back and be proud of yourself because stopped a very nasty percedent in its track.

Viva La Rosie!

Here is song for you by Cold Play. Hope you like it.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zON3G_nJyQ

i shared your outrage over

i shared your outrage over what was done this morning ad hominem. i agree it crossed a red line. but you cannot be responsible for how everyone reacts or not. we each make our choices, also according to personal things. it's complex.

I know. But you saw how serious it was. It was so serious that you ran out and got a hat and took a photo of youself so that you could support DK on that blog in that way. That was a LOT of effort. So it reallY was THAT disturbing and the blog was THAT horrific.

So WHAT IS THE PROBLEM THEN WITH JUST SAYING I REGISTER MY PROTEST TO THIS BLOG?

How many people can be expected to run out and do what you did? And it STILL didn't get the blog taken down. WHAT WOULD'VE BEEN WRONG WITH HAVING PRESSURE PUT SO THE BLOG WOULD'VE BEEN TAKEN DOWN?

you must be younger than me: you still think you can save the world. 

No, I'm not and I don't. I just know that the site could be a lot more than it is. I mean it's already a lot but it could be much much more. And that is 'saving the world' in a small way, because when the site is really clicking with ideas and things are rolling, it's far more than a social networking. You're inside of a collective mind. And it really is the mind of the future. When it has some kind of focus and purpose, like when the factions are seeming to get united in a common idea if not strategy, then you really feel the Enegy capital E. And that's part of the reason why Ayhab was so important to me and why I worked with him so much on that Vowels blog. I didn't start that intervention, you know, but I hopped onto it and kept it going. Because he was the most divisive force polarizing the Monarchist and 'progressive' factions with all his bluster. And he improved so much. I mean it's really incredible that a bunch of Centrists and Monarchists could actually have a top rate debate on Ayhab's thread.

But he turned out to be a miserable failure andI truly wish I hadn't gone there. Jamshid's right. He has a severe personality disorder and it was a waste of my time. You have to understand that I was very very well known here, from the beginning, before I left. And very close to j. and some others from the sanctum sanctorum of the original circle. But these new people, they don't know me. And they see me here so comfortable and doing what I do and being who I am, and well, that would all be fine. People would accept it, they'd resent it in certain ways but they'd accept it. The problem is I'm not Iranian. So the resentment is far greater. And that's a big part of it. You could say that's politics in a way, I guess.

ANd then for certain other reasons as well, well finally it all takes too great a toll on me.

______________________

I really wasn't planning on coming back here. a few weeks ago I'd been gone for seven months. For very serious reasons. And it was very specific why I wound up here again and it was supposed to be very finite and it lasted longer than I dreamed, and for specific reasons. I've overstayed my own welcome.

I'm sorry if I disappointed you. You're a very beautiful person.

please take care of yourself too.

what we need is some hope

or 'omid' - for rosie, FB, jaleh, midwesty and Setareh (where is she?)

Okay, look, FB, I put a lot of thought into it these days so

I may as well write down some things.

I'm glad you didn't say it was a plot because a LOT of people think there are plots. But it isn't EVEN a culture of cronyism. There are no cronies. This is the first blog I was ever on:

//iranian.com/main/2007/petty-role-model

Death threats were deleted, along with other flagged posts, btw. This went on for two months until the community FORCED Jahanshah to implement moderation other than just flagging. He wanted to be Tom Paine...he wanted things to just...work out....

How did that man become this man?

//iranian.com/main/blog/mimi-shishi/moderator

The crackdown was never about profanity. It was about grasping at straws. All those details about the hejab thread...they're...they mean nothing. NOT EVEN CLOSING THE THREAD. The real word IS 'arbitrary'. He's just not a good moderator. It's not in his DNA.  So when the community and he as collective can't say: this blog is slander,and agree to something substantive, you will get...insane things happening.

The moderation should be taken over collectively. I was thinking about it. There could be elections..well...anyway...that won't happen, at least I won't be involved. But he shouldn't be doing all of the moderation. His role should be as minimal as possible. Anyway he has far better things to do with his time. Site publisher on a site this large should NOT be moderator. It's INSANE. I don't know why people aren't questioning the ABSURDITY of ONE PERSON doing this all on their own. And him of all people.

And that Fozoul Bashi, is what I am trying to get you to see. Don't read ANYTHING into ANYTHING that happened on that hejab thread except that it happened. And if people refused to say Ayhab's blog was NOT OKAY...that's what you'll get. Lots of arbitrary insanity. Moderation needs to be done collectively. Elections would be nice. I had some ideas for a system and the first condition was that I wasn't going to 'run' so I wouldn't have any power. I was thinking of maybe working a draft out first with a couple of other people and then having one of them blog the ideas. I dunno. I'm certainly not going to go into it, like I said, it's not my discussion anymore, but maybe someone else will pick it up.

Maybe it'll come out of the Prophet's anti-moderation blog.

___________

Well, anyway, he says he wants to do it. Maybe you can get him to meet the Pepsi challenge. He says he wants to.

Look at the comment at the bottom of the thread before the Grudge Match ballet begins.

//iranian.com/main/2010/apr/rules-moderation-civility

rosie,

rosie,

ic is very fortunate to have someone with as much empathy as you around. i personally was very touched by the sensitive way in whcih you engaged another novice on this site, got him into a 'salle prive' for a one-on-one.

you have a lot of integrity and a very strong sense of caring. maybe too much. for many people, a lot of playing around goes on, and it is social networking. they flutter around from one blog to the next, one thread to the next. people ought to choose for themselves how deep they want to go in. not everyone is always brave, honest, open, or 'comme il faut'.

i shared your outrage over what was done this morning ad hominem. i agree it crossed a red line. but you cannot be responsible for how everyone reacts or not. we each make our choices, also according to personal things. it's complex.

you must be younger than me: you still think you can save the world. 

please take care of yourself too.

Rosie, there is NOT a plot!

No, I didn't say there was a plot!!!  There is what might be called 'a culture of cronyism'.  We are well familiar with that ;)  There were some protests recently somewhere in relation to this sort of things ... oh well lol

I'm going to try to say this clearly and briefly FB, because I

THERE ARE NO PLOTS. THERE IS NO AGENDA. NO PERSON, NO GROUP, IS BEING TARGETED FOR ANY REASON. IT'S ALL JUST INCOMPETENCY. THAT'S ALL.

So now you have a Khomeini in Birkenstocks. There's really nothing else for me to say. 

______________________

What a blessing

Thank God for small favors!

Holly, I will not exchange comments with you

From now on , i will not engage these kind of people:
1 they use fake I'd
2 they use their fake I'd to play games with other users, lie about them and engage in slander.
You fit above bill. So after this comment, please refrain from addressing me, folowing my comments closely, which I wrote that tellit did. Also know that if you engage in character asassination, you will be legally responsible since I will not let fake iden. Users defame me. I will take legal measures. Also the harassing email that I received was forwarded to JJ so at least he knows that I am not slandering people.

Look, this is not my discussion, so since I started it,

drop it please. Or at least don't address me.

Listen to me carefully. This is not my discussion because I'm not Iranian. I wasn't brought up to debate the subtle nuances of the quintessence of the quintessence of the third to last strand of pubic hair of flagrant character assassination. I'm not programmed that way.

In all those hours one person registered formal protest with me. This is clealry not my discussion. So if any of you want to have it, leave me out of it please.

//iranian.com/main/blog/veiled-prophet-khorasan/i-oppose-any-censorship

_______________

If anyone thinks I'm a hypocrite I'm not. There are only two cases where I was involved in contributing to a real abusive dynamic. One was with Irandokht and it was VERY complex and IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED. The other was with Jaleho, and it was at the time of the elections. And that was a very unique time.  I don't believe there have been any others. I just wanted to make that point of clarification in case anyone was wondering.

Rosie - you don't get the point

I am sorry, no offense meant.  You say:

and it is there NOW while your deleted posts AREN'T there. 

That's the whole point.  I made decent and fair observations in a polite but clear fashion, and it is CENSORED!!!   Not only that, Holly's comments and Yolanda's own 'slip' were deleted!  This means whitewashing all the 'incriminating evidence', in a flash:)))  Another point is obscene and aggressive remarks that are flagged but are unflagged and kept!  For me the issue of arbitrariness and non-transparency stand very high in my priorities.

I didn't silence anyone, VPK..

I'm almost posiive it was Ayhab who deleted the blog. I'm sure he'll let us know.

I just expressed what I felt should be done as a community about it.

I was just using my...freedom of speech...

I didn't silence anyone at all.

_________

oh yeah and ps VPK but you DO agree with Ayhab's radical anti-IRI stance, remember? That's the big surprise you and the Monarchists found out this past week because I and some others worked SO hard to get him to STOP TRASHING MONARCHISTS for a few days that you could actually HEAR him. And have a LONG SUBTLE debate among many people on his F-k You blog with him about Monarchism, that would never have happened without me.

Rosie

I am really angry that you have managed to silence a voice. One that I did not agree with nevertheless a voice that I rather have in the open and not gagged.

You mam are a bully a self appointed and uninvited censor. Plain and simple. I have lost all respect for you and this is the last  time I will engage a direct remark to you.

For a Westerner you have remarkably low tolerance for freedom of speech. Have you read the US constitution? Have you read the first amendment? Do you put any value in freedom of speech? Or is free speech just what you approve of? If any one needs to go I rather see you go and take your censorship with you.

Good day.

VPK

Let me put this as simply as possible ps

IF that blog is not a line in the sand there is no line in the sand and then all discussion about any moderation should stop. Period.

Except for whatever deletions Jahanshah decides to do or not to do depending on what side of bed he happened to get out of that day.

And believe me he'll do 'em.

Or maybe he won't. Maybe he'll stop right now and then you can all say whatever you feel like saying whenever you feel like saying it. And breathe the fresh air of freedom of speech that none of you ever had under the Shah or under IRI...

or in the ten, twenty, thirty years you've been living in US, UK and Canada.

__________

ps This is the first thread I was ever on here. Death threats were removed.

//iranian.com/main/2007/petty-role-model

Jahanshah's a civil libertarian. He wanted to run this website according to Tom Payne's minimal governance ideas. He didn't WANT to have to 'tell people how to behave'. But people DON'T self-regulate without guidance--which has to come COLLECTIVELY but it has to EXIST--and there have to be lines in the sand. He doesn't WANT to be Cybernanny. He's NOT GOOD AT IT. And if people think it's fine to write a blog ridiculing someone as an alcoholic...then Jahanshah has NO LINE IN THE SAND TO FOLLOW.

And neither do you. So you have no legitimate arguments about ANYTHING ELSE RELATED TO CIVIL DISCOURSE.

I said some HORRIBLE things about Irandokht onsite last year. I WISH I HAD NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO. 

FB

Yes, I SAW A LOT OF THINGS. Yes, I have a LOT OF OPINIONS ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU SAY.

Yes, I've had TERRIBLE THINGS DONE TO ME AND BY ME.

BUT THAT"S NOT THE POINT. THE POINT IS NOW.

You have it backwards.

This is a WHOLE BLOG written to ridicule one person, and not 'just' their politics but their appearance, intelligence, ethics, all the way to calling them ALCOHOLIC...

and it is there NOW while your deleted posts AREN'T there. And if you're going to rationalize this because oh DK once said this or did that...

no you have it backwards. IF THIS STAYS UP HE CAN CONTINUE TO DO WHATEVER ELSE HE DOES. AND SO CAN ANYONE ELSE.

Anyone who approves of that blog being up has no right to complain about anything else. It simply doesn't get much worse than that. It doesn't.

If you want to talk about the PREPOSTROUS closing of that Hejab thread for NO reason...no there was no agenda, no reason, believe me...or about Marjan's post here...you can't have it both ways.

You either don't accept Ayhab's blog or you accept the whole package of arbitrariness and everyone keeps on whining on different threads and spitting into the wind.

This is the line in the sand. That's all there is to it.

I was going to post this on Captain Ayhab's blog

but now that it was deleted I will post it here:

I disagree with much of what Captain says. I like RP but do not worship him. I
think Iran was vastly better off with the Pahlavis. I don't live in a
Utopia; I remember Pahlavi days. Yes they were not perfect but were a
heck of a lot better than now. Iran was respected;  prosperous and the
envy of many other nations. Iranian people were fooled and mislead.
That generation had some of the worst idiots in it to its eternal
shame. Regarding the Shah: he left because we was not brave enough to
stay. He was sick and not in a shape to fight for his nation and
throne. He had never earned power and therefore was not able to hold on
to it. That is why we need elected leaders that actually work to gain
power not inherit it.

I don't want this blog closed. People should be allowed to say what
they want. In fact if Khomeini's writings were not banned I  people
wouldn't have followed him. When you ban something you make it
important and elevate it. Let people say what they want. Let readers be
the judge of their value and rightness.

Rosie -

Did you see the obscene insult on Niloufar and her family in Shazdeh's blog, that was repeatedly flagged by me and it was repeatedly unflagged.  What was your view on that?

Also I see Jaleho is being repeatedly insulted by a gang, every time that she appears, for the sin of being a supporter of Ahmadi-Nedjad, a charge that millions of other Iranians share with her!!!  Have you got any views on that?

In Capt's blog there is no direct reference to anyone, although one can guess.  However, that particular 'one', is known for launching unprovoked and personal assaults, including calling the Iranian nation  'olaagh'!!

The point is there are far more cases of direct and personal insult and harassment (such as of Jaleh and Niloufar) which are let go by the by.  I have myself been repeatedly, unfairly, and without provocation, attacked, although I couldn't care less personally, considering where they come from ;)

Holly Khanom

As this question has been raised after what I wrote to Anahid, I feel responsible to answer your question.

What Anahid wrote there was nothing bad or insulting. No need all the fuss about it.

The only thing she said was : Due to the high sense of humor in that comment of WasTellit, she suspect that the author could be one of those persons: MPD, Jaleho, Holly, Kharmagas...and a few others that I can't recall their name.

That is all she said, nothing else. My whole comment was completely about another aspect of her comment. Your name has been brought there just as an example, and nothing more. I do apology to you, if this has brought any confusion or suspicion to your mind.

Anahid had just a guess and she spoke it loud. This is something that many of us do all the time, wrong or right! I too, have said that I though WasTellit, is Khar. Many people say what they think about the other people's multiple ID. Please don't take it personally.

Sincerely,

Fouzul, until we can all agree--and we includes Jahanshah--

that Ayhab's blog is a clear example of character assassination and cannot be allowed to stand, all other discussion is pointless. All of it.

And believe me, there's plenty to discuss.

But this character assassination blog--it's basic.

To be perfectly honest with you, FB, I HIGHLY DOUBT there's a political agenda here. I already told you guys below--I nominate DK for IRI informer, MPD for nine of Jamshid's hundred men, myself for courtesan, and Jahanshah for airhead-I mean air in the tires.

But it's all just spitting in the wind until that thing Ayhab wrote gets taken down. I'm sorry, but it is.

Rosie

In that blog, not only my questions were deleted, but Holly's questions to me and surprise that my reply had been removed, were deleted too, INSTANTLY!!!  Not just that, Yolanda's original comment and later comments which were not attached to my messages were deleted too.  Who was protecting someone from an embarrassing situation of exposure?!  I don't care about multiple IDs, what I do care about though is the political agendas that some fictitious characters carry....  In my opinion, the deletions and UNFLAGGINGS  are increasingly arbitrary and unethical.  

Kourush jan,

I forgot to tell you, I jumped off the bus a half an hour ago. I am ok, just got couple of bruises on my knees and elbows. Things happened so fast, jump out while you can.

;O)

No progress whatsoever on fairness in moderation,

parameters of civil discourse, policy on deletions and account blockings, and most importantly on proper self-regulation will take place unless both community and publisher, as collective, understand that there IS a line in the sand and that in this case it has been CLEARLY crossed:

//iranian.com/main/blog/capt-ayhab/step-step-guide-deciphering-ignorance

Fozoul Bashi, I'm sure you're aware by now that the Hijab thread where you posted your polite question to Jahanshah about why your innocent post to Yolanda had been deleted has been closed, along with of course your question deleted.

If community and publisher together as collective are unwilling to assert themselves to remove Ayhab's blog then all the rest of this discussion is just spitting into the wind.

Midwesty jaan

Bezan kenare jadde baghale in ghahveh khooneh... mese inke motor joosh avordeh ya masheen boksovaat karde ya lastik mastik tarakoondim:)))