Anyway

War......?

Master Ajam you ask excellent question [..Why is war so revered in American culture?! Why everyone in America has to defend a war act or a war-related entity in order to prove his or her patriotism?!...]

Allow me to give a tidbit on this question. War is not just revered in American culture, it is revered in Christian culture as a whole.

The word [WAR] has been mentioned 300 times in the new Testament(Bible) and the word [SWARD] is mentioned 380 times.

And Yet Muslims are labeled with honorable label of terrorist (sarcasm noted).

Ironic isn't it???

Have a happy holidays
-YT

Fair

Oh, yeah, I know of these National Guard stories you mention. It's not just the NG. There are regular active military families in that situation too, Guys (or girls) are deployed overseas with the spouse and invariably small kids left behind.

They don't live in family housing on base because there's simply no room. They're on a waiting list that never ends. So they have to live with relatives, with the stateside spouse unable to work outside the home, because the kids are not school age yet and daycare costs an arm and a leg. And of course the military doesn't compensate financially for being forced to pay open market rent because they have no more base housing. It's a vicious, ugly cycle.

Dear Kaveh

I know what you mean, and I agree with you. The front line (and any other for that matter) soldiers are not only not to blame, but deserve the full support and respect of us, the American population. They have more than fulfilled their duty to their country, and have not been treated fairly at all.

Did you know that many families of National Guard deployed to Iraq have to go to food banks to help put food on the table? Because they are not getting the income of their usual job, and the government is not helping them. National Guard is supposed to be for domestic needs like hurricanes, fires, etc. and are not supposed to be called up for extended periods. Today National Guard personnel serve several tours and years in Iraq. Meanwhile, look how much they pay Blackwater and other mercenaries who are not accountable to ANY law- US, Iraq, or uniform code of military justice (although this may change soon after the massacre they have done). Let's say, they don't exactly need to go to the food bank.

-FAIR

Dear Bijan

Please, no need to apologize. I fully understand and respect your opinion, and was not offended by anything you said.

Also, I am sorry to bring up what I did, I usually do not like to as it is painful for me and everybody. But sometimes it is easy to forget, we were fighting a savage enemy- the one who said God created 3 species as a mistake -Jews, Persians, and flies. They laughed at the slaughter of their enemy. I NEVER laugh at the prospect of anyone dying, even my worst enemy, even when they executed Saddam Hussein.

And this enemy was FULLY supported by the United States to commit the crimes he did. We now know in addition to the material support, there were dozens of senior pentagon advisors in Baghdad helping direct strategy and tactics and use of airpower against Iranians. Even AFTER fully knowing about chemical weapons use. (Look up Rick Francona).

And when they made him too strong for his own good, he got a mind of his own. The rest is history (things didn't work out too well). You can indeed draw a straight line from the war forced upon Iran in 1980 to this shoe throwing incident here. The end result of all this "commander in chief knows best" and "has authority to protect America" and empty patriotism is exactly what we see here- millions of "Hajis" sufferring from decades of hunger, dislocation, ethnic cleansing, war, and finally just more hatred for the United States, sometimes in the form of a shoe. Oh, and of course, the free flow of oil, let's not forget what is important.

-FAIR

Fair

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, so please don't take it that way. There are indeed Americans (or as they say, "Amurricans") who are as you describe.

The ones that bug me the most are the ones who after 9/11 bought American flags and displayed them in every window of their house and their car. You know exactly the ones I'm talking about.

As for the ones who served in combat, whether they did so at the CiC's behest or by a Congressional declaration shouldn't matter.

I wish all of them voted and got involved with the issues. Do they? Good question.

As to your description of how they prove they are REAL Americans....these guys should have been out a long time ago. I've always believed that the biggest blunder in Iraq has been the lack of an exit strategy. Washington never thought past getting rid of Saddam. But that's not the fault of the front line soldiers.

War!

Why is war so revered in American culture?! Why everyone in America has to defend a war act or a war-related entity in order to prove his or her patriotism?! Why every American citizen would always have to support the troops?! Even when it has nothing to do with defending thier country?!
I mean if they commit crimes, why shouldn't they be treated as war criminals?!
What the Iraqi journalist did (uncivilized as it may seem) was to express his contempt for the symbol of these war crimes in his country!
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=__A3wWcD8JA

Fine. And how many "real"

Fine. And how many "real" Americans (the ones who are not naturalized) are really American when it is INconvenient? For every one of the naturalized ones you say consider themselves American only when it is convenient, there are several "real" ones that do the same.

And when you want to distinguish which one is which, what is your test going to be? Whether they will "serve their country" as defined at the sole behest of the commander in chief?

I have a better test for you. Do they VOTE? Do they get involved with issues? Do they educate themselves about what goes on in their own country? What goes on outside their country in their name? Do they help the poor? The homeless? The veterans who DID serve their country and are freezing and coughing up blood and dying in the streets long after the flags stop waving and the bands stop playing? Do they "support their troops" with more than just a bumber sticker?

No, to prove they are REAL Americans, they need to sign up, go to Ramadi, man a checkpoint in someone else's country with a 50 caliber machine gun, yell "STOP" in English at a car full of illiterate civilians who only know Arabic, and if it doesn't stop, fill everybody in that car full of lead. Including children. All in the name of national security. Protecting your buddies. Don't ask whether your buddies even have a right to be there, that would be unpatriotic. They were just a bunch of "Hajis" anyway. This is what your commander in chief wants you to do, so you should do it.

Patriotism. Serving your country. What "convenient" phrases indeed.

Listen to Winter Soldier and other American veterans for more. You know, "rambling".

-FAIR

AW and YT

AW: thank you, it's very nice from you (don't forget to send me the check :D))

YT: You forgot to mention that the poor Iraqi journalist got a 15 years sentence for that !! I believe we too, will stay in this blog for 15 years!

Fair

I don't think you'd disagree that there are people who are naturalized American citizens who in reality don't even consider themselves to be American, except when it's necessary or convenient. And included in that group are some of our very own.

Q: FYI, I happen to live near a Marine base. Close enough to it that I can hear their artillery during live fire exercises. The people who live and work there, who are being prepared for deployment, aren't economically disadvantaged people of color from the inner city. I know that painting such a picture does well to serve the liberal agenda of bashing the military and denouncing the Pentagon and so on.

But these kids are from all over the country, from cities and suburbs and from places so small that if you tried to find it on MapQuest your computer will crash from sheer frustration.

They're black, white, Latino, Italian, Filipino, you name it. Some join out of economic necessity. Some join because other family members served. And yes, there are some who were sold a bill of goods by some slick talking recruiter at their high school in Wherethehellisthat, North Dakota, or South Boston, or Fairfax County, VA. And there are some who joined because after 9/11 they felt that they should.

Anyway you look at it, they didn't have to. If you think that's making too much of it, oh well.

LOLOL

Love it... well done my friend.  You and Souri will get the Iranian.com Medal of Peace-making on this one...:-)

I'll be looking for y'all on another thread... peace out

Shoe Incident..... ;o)

Did you guys hear that some Iraqi journalist threw his shoes at President Bush, while he was addressing Iraqi journalists on a [farewell] speech??????

Just in case you all forgot about it ;o)

-YT

FAIR

Now that I have learned a little more about your experiences it started to become more clear why you have been so fair. My post was never meant to imply you don’t respect constitution, but only, to express my understanding of AW’s argument and the contradiction in multiple allegiances.  Having a cake and eating it too, was only a reference to multiple allegiances.

While I stand behind the points I was trying to make, I do apologize if by any chance you were offended by my comments. You continue to have my utmost respect for your fairness and the gravity of your words that is by far a lot more that the hot air blown by some on this site.

Sincerely,

Bijan      

Q, I agree truely

This is what i always tried to say too, but my English is very "dast o pa shekasteh""....I think AW has very good points but it's the WAY she throw it with words that look unpleasant, and I value Fair's opinion as always, but believe here he becomes a little too defensive, where it's not needed.

The rest of your comment about being a real American citizen, Is absolutely true and I defend this idea, indeed I just said it yesterday.

Cheer up guys !!

Merry early Christmas :D))

I did NOT condemn the constitution

Far from it- I hold it up.

In fact, the BIGGEST treason is by our president himself, who has violated the constitution and international law and the UN charter by invading a sovereign nation which posed no threat to the United States. This in turn has increased hatred for the US and made Al Qaeda stronger than ever. Resources that should have been fully directed at OBL were otherwise wasted against Saddam Hussein. If you want to see what a mockery Bush made of getting OBL and how he dropped the ball, read the account by the Delta Force commander who was within striking distance and had to pull back because of Bush/Cheney's SCREWUP- he goes by the name Dalton Fury and has written a book called "Kill Bin Laden". Look it up. And the two parties in power have failed to hold him accountable. But under the consitution, the congress should have held impeachment proceedings and did not. Special Interests 1- US Consitution 0. And it is not the first time.

So no, I do not seek to have my cake and eat it too. I seek the rule of law, and the use of military force for defensive purposes only, and under according to the US constitution.

And yes, I get more than defensive , in fact quite alarmed- when someone in this country comes up to me and says "you are just an American citizen but not an American" because you do not commit to follow the president's orders to fight anywhere and in anyway that he chooses, whether or not it is legal. It is that type of statement that led to the rise of Naziism, and destroyed so many good people under McCarthyism. Remember, Hitler came to power in a perfectly democratic system and by winning a popular vote fair and square. The foremost requirement of a democracy is educated and engaged citizens. (e.g. Look at what Thomas Jefferson devoted his entire energy to at the end of his life- founding the University of Virginia.)

-FAIR

Truth vs disrespect

It is not out of line to state the truth. I fully respect American soldiers and their professionalism. But it is true that in the last few decades, they never saw their buddies mutilated and disfigured and melted by chemical weapons (some of my friends still today are burned badly and do not wear short sleeved shirts), or their positions completely decimated by enemy aircraft, such that they were surrounded by body parts of their friends and have to be covered with mud and blood of their friends. They didn't take back a city of their own, only to find the bodies of the raped and murdered civilian compatriots who were victims of the invaders all over the place. They didn't see groups of 18 year olds go up to tanks, fight them head on with light weapons, destroy 1 or 2, and get crushed under the tracks of another or get disintegrated by a hevy shell in the process. They didn't see pilots who were in jail, begging to be released to fight despite their hate for their government and their comrades being executed without trial, only to fly 3 missions and finally be lost over the world's most heavily defended city in an aircraft that would be grounded if it were in the US Air Force. They didn't see large groups of youngsters charge the enemy over minefields and into heavy artillery and NONE of them making it to the other side,and to hear the enemy laughing at all this over the radio, because the US military has mine clearing equipment and destroys enemy artillery before sending its soldiers to charge. We had no such luxury.

This is not meant as disrespect to US soldiers. It is just a reality. In fact I am glad for the US soldiers that they did not and do not have to see this, and I hope NOBODY ever sees this EVER AGAIN. This was NO WAY to fight a war.

I have many friends in the US military, one of them is an Iranian American (not just an American citizen) who died in Iraq while treating other American wounded. Another is an Iranian American who is a a US Army doctor treating American wounded near the front lines. And many other Americans of other origins. And I can tell you, many new immigrant soldiers like Lance Corporal Guttierez are not fluent. But they are functional. As far as I am concerned, they assimilatd successfully because they tried their best, not because they achieved fluency. I would fight with them on my side any day NOT based on how heavy their accent was or wasn't, but based on their dedication and motivation and belief.

I have just as much respect for US soldiers as I do for those I served with, and never meant to suggest otherwise. A soldier's job is to defend their country, and their country in turn owes them their support and respect.  Not to leave them rotting as homeless on the streets.

-FAIR

Thank You Cheezaki for getting the joke about B52s

I knew someone would get it.

This topic is still very hot, dispite all the distractions here.

For the record, I do see value in both Fair and American Wife's writing. I think AW was too sloppy in her words in trying to set herself apart from "immigrant" Americans. And I think Fair is being too militant and too defensive.

But the bottom line is nobody has a right to define "two classes" of American citizens, one "real", the other one less than real. If you are legally an American citizen, what it means to you, and how you see yourself as a citizen is your own business. Nobody can tell you, you are less than a citizen or not a "real" citizen. Opinions, of course can be biased or constructive depending on the atmosphere of debate.

And Kaveh Nouraee is making too much of the "volunteer" thing. There were also many many volunteers in the Iran-Iraq war but that by itself is not meaningful. What is meaninfgul is why they volunteered. In the US, Pentagon spends billions and billions of dollars making war look "cool", "kickass" and attractive, going as far as allowing the mentally challenged to join. To especially the inner city kids with little economic choice, The statistics are clear, the Army is the only major part of America where poor communities of color are over-represented.

Meanwhile: The journalist who threw the shoe was tortured in Jail:
//www.nytimes.com/2008/12/22/world/middleeast...

FAIR has BEEN fair in almost every debate,

I have respected him in most instances. By the same token I have a lot of respect for many of AW’s view points and arguments. I did not see anything in any of AW’s posts as offensive, insulting or UNFAIR to raise my blood pressure to pick up a fight or an argument. I have never, ever seen AW advocating any war and she has always been critical of Bush and has always condemned the Iraq war or for that matter any war. And, this is coming from someone who has had some less-than-flattering exchanges with AW. As someone who loves his birth place and cherishes and observes his culture and traditions, I certainly appreciate AW’s distinction between “American” and “American citizen”. If those citizens who pledged their allegiance in the process of accepting the citizenship are true to their pledge, then there will be no distinction and everyone is American.

In reality, many of us who became citizens and truly appreciate the democracy and the rule of law and all the other dignities that this nation has offered us, are not true to our pledge. Whether we like it or not, the constitution of this land and the system of government and the social order (laws) that runs it, give the CIC the power (under the control of people’s representatives) to utilize the armed forces to defend this nation. Be it from attacks by invading forces or any other forms of threat that puts the nation’s livelihood at risk.

IMHO, it is unfair to condemn the constitution for the mistakes of a CIC (and the representatives of people). If we lose our respect for our democratic system we face anarchy. I think that’s going to lead to AW’s argument that when it comes to CIC’s order to arm, we as believers in the constitution of this land don’t have a choice. You will arm first and let your representatives and any other avenue provided by your constitution protest or argue legitimacy of the CIC’s order.

A war has been declared on this nation by people without a country. At the same time there has been a threat that one person could get so much power to control flow of blood to our nation (the two threats, i.e. terrorism and concerns over energy supply could be entirely unrelated and independent). Bush fabricated reasons to attack Iraq.  It may have been (and probably was) against many international treaties and illegal, but nonetheless it was ordered by the CIC. But, as an American you don’t have a choice whether to follow that order or not. The constitution and the rule of law and the government provide reasons for exemptions. You, as an American have already spoken by electing your representative and CIC. Keep on protesting and voice your opposition within the framework of law, but you will be committing treason by disobeying the constitution. Regardless of rightfully or wrongfully we consider the war legitimate or illegal.

FAIR, we can’t have our cake and eat it too. If by becoming a US citizen we pledged our allegiance to the US, if a war is declared between Iran and US, we, as adult and sane people have promised which side we will be on. This is not to say we should stop doing everything in our power (again within the rule of law) to prevent such a war. If you say your alligeance is still with your birth place, then, you have proved AW’s argument that there is a distinction between an “American” and  “American citizen”.

The rest of bickering over mastery of the English language, etc… are some byproduct of the main issue and while being relevant debates, are getting off on a different tangent.

I believe your exchange has stemmed from a misunderstanding and both you guys are respectable intellectuals with realistic views (although I think AW has a little more liberal views to my taste).

 Let’s cool down and exchange a hug.

Fair

LCPL Gutierrez entered the U.S. (albeit illegally) at the age of 14, yet had successfully assimilated into American society, including learning to speak the English language.

I wouldn't consider him as someone who wasn't fluent.

I might add, that while I have no doubt that in your military service you experienced some unimaginable horrors, it's way out of line for you to suggest that American soldiers have not seen the horrors you have seen.

These American kids joined the military voluntarily, for many different reasons. And especially in this day and age, where the real horrors of war have become more common knowledge, thanks to the internet and virtually instant news, these young people deserve our thanks and our respect. These kids never signed up with the thought, "hey, I'm going to enlist so I can die", they enlist to serve, just as you served.

Being that they volunteered to do this, I think they deserve an even greater measure of respect.

enough of this

It's going no where.  There is no valid discussion.  Simply you taking a word here and there and distorting my intention.  I hope we find another thread to discuss but this has worn out any meaning whatsoever.

Read Carefully what Teddy says...

... since you value the ability to read so much.

Notice Teddy says allegiance to AMERICA and the AMERICAN PEOPLE , not the AMERICAN COMMANDER IN CHIEF. Nowhere does he say, if you don't follow the orders of the US President to do something against international law, you are not American. That would be something Hitler would say about being a good German.

Furthermore, if your opinion is that disagreement with the above implies being only an American citizen, not an American, then only men can be Americans. Teddy seems to completely ignore women. Sounds like the Islamic Republic and the Taliban and the Saudi government to me:)

And finally, even Teddy is only one American, even his opinion is one of many others.

Selective Memory of AW

AW:

Rambling? Unrelated to what you said?

Perhaps I can refresh your selective memory:

Point 1- YOU say that to be American requires that you go to war anywhere and anyplace the commander in chief decides that the US go to war. I responded to that, and you call that rambling?? And you shredded the constitution in the process. (Read Article 1 section 8). Also, you have it wrong, the US Congress DID declare war on Japan and Germany and Italy in 1941 (WWII). And the US President can REQUEST the congress to recognize a "state of war", which is exactly what he did in 1941 and previous declarations of war. Your "correction" is further not valid, because I did not say when or where congress has declared war, but that it is the sole body in the US government with that authority ACCORDING TO THE US CONSTITUTION (remember that document?)

Point 2- YOU throw around demands about "fighting for your country" and "serving your country", and I came back challenging you about whether you have any clue what that means. Invading Panama or Grenada or Iraq is NOT fighting for your country. Iranians know what it means to "fight for your country" and the necessary sacrifice. You don't. PERIOD. Rambling? You don't like it? Then don't sit there demanding Americans of Iranian origin to go participate in these illegal criminal activities so that your "opinion" can be satisfied.

Point 3- YOU state that to be American you have to learn and use the language. Well for some people that is difficult, especially if they are older. I brought up the issue of YOU and language so that MAYBE you can imagine what it would be like to learn a completely new language later in life. It is difficult. What is the most difficult foreign language you have learned, and how late in life have you learned it?

These are the only points I have responded to. Have you not brought up these points? Would you like to deny you ever brought them up? Or is it just easier to call my response "rambling" ?

And with regard to your question- I have answered it and will answer it again: I have ALREADY been in Iran when I was military age and HAVE defended innocent children, families, and my country when there was an attack on us. I have endured losses you cannot imagine, and have seen horrors that no American soldier, and certainly you have never seen (some of the worst ones brought to you by your CinC at the time). I have done my part, and I will do it again and support such an effort when it is necessary again. And before your almighty CinC pulls the trigger, I can make more of a difference here. Capiche? Or would you like me repeat myself yet once more? I have very good reasons for being here, and I came here by CHOICE. I have a good standard of living here, and am a proud citizen, proud of the United States, and of Iran, my country of origin. However, I actually could have had a BETTER standard of living had I stayed in Iran, and I could have gone to many other countries and had a good life there as well (and I still can).

And finally, maybe you think it is "rambling" when I bring up the 300,000 homeless veterans in this country, and you claim it is a "waste of your time" trying to "figure that one out". Well that just shows how EMPTY your demands of "serving your country" are. You "opine" that to be American you must serve your country. But when 300000 of those very Americans who DID "serve their country" end up on the streets, you are clueless about it, oblivious to it, and couldn't care less. In fact, you consider the issue a "waste of time". And you have the GALL to say who is American and who is not.

Your son is a US Marine. Great. Send him my salute and tell him I said Semper Fi. Also ask him, how many US military suicides there were last year. There were 2100 attempted, 121 successful. That is the highest in 2 decades, and twice the rate of 2002, before the Iraq invasion. Ask him how many suffer from PTSD and how many get treated for it. Or would that be a "waste of time" for you? Are we all supposed to just "serve our country" by saying Sieg Heil to the CinC and shut up?

Bottom line for the hundreth time- before you expect people to "serve country", get a clue first what it means, and learn the law of war. Otherwise you are supporting international terrorism.

Kaveh: There are many immigrants serving in the US military with English NOT being their first language, and they are certainly not fluent. That doesn't mean they are not functional or cannot take orders. In fact the FIRST US soldier to die in Iraq was not even a US citizen, he was from Guatemala: Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez. He was granted US citizenship posthumously.

-FAIR

:-)

Thanks Souri....that's what we would call an "ice breaker" at home.  At least we're not calling each other IRI supporters or Monarchists...:-)  This is the first blog that hasn't gotten politically nasty...lol.

My final... I promise!!! comment is this.  Regardless of how this thread has evolved or what you THINK I'm saying or what you THINK I mean, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Iranians.  It was said that I was showing contempt for Iranians and nothing could be further than the truth.  To suggest something as outrageous as that is ignoring my many other conversations.  But it is just as outrageous to be so narrow minded as to think that if I disagree with you (that is collective), then I'm being insulting or contemptuous.  I'm seeing more and more of this attitude... you either agree with ME or you're the enemy.  Many people who have always maintained a calm and responsible attitude are starting to personally attack individuals and THAT is a shame.  My feelings apply to every immigrant, not just Iranians, regarding their status. 

I have and HAD no intention of insulting anyone.  Speaking your opinion on IC is becoming somewhat dicey.  Those who have always decried the "personal attacks" are becoming the ones who do it most.  And that is sad.

I hope I'll see you all on another thread!

peace out.

I like it

The debate is very interesting. Despite the facts that it started from a bad angle  and that it is derailed from the main subject, but I find this debate very interesting. Both parties, AW and Fair, are making valid points and I can say I agree with both !!! in most of the part.

Now I'm waiting the final conclusion knowing that we may never reach to that absolute verdict. However it is better than Dallas TV series, because at least we are learning something here :D))

this is the last thing I've got to say

Theodore Roosevelt’s ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.
 

Kathy

Which one is your dog in this fight? 

Who am I picking a fight with?  I made a comment, it was responded to.  A difference of opinion evolved.  If you have an opinion, state it.  Other wise, you really don't know who or what started this, correct?  And if your attitude is that I'm not welcome here because of my opinions, you're opening a HUGE door.  Who is "they" anyway?  I have alot better things to do than argue... but I never back away from standing up to my opinion. 

And it appears that not ALL Iranians disagree with me.  Usually the ones who know me and listen to what I say will respond with some commen sense, rather than jump on a word or two and try to distort everything I say. 

So... what ARE your feelings on the subject at hand? 

:-)

That's Enough "Piling On"

Whether or not any of you wish to admit it, AW has a valid point when she mentions Iranians who have been here for 10-20 years and have less command of the English language than an 18-month old toddler. There are far too many of them. I have a couple of older relatives who are like that and frankly it's ridiculous to have them drag a youngster along to act as translator.

This doesn't apply only to Iranians, but to any foreign national.

Fair: The United States military doesn't allow those who lack a proficient command of English in active combat. Military personnel must be able to communicate fluently using both proper English and military jargon, and a soldier with poor English proficiency who cannot distinguish content and context is a casualty waiting to happen. Not only would the soldier be in grave danger, so would fellow soldiers.

American Wife

Why are you trying to pick a fight with as many Iranians as you can?! Let it go. You blame them for not welcoming you here, can you blame them?! They never actually said that but if they did who can blame them?

It is as if you have nothing better to do than argue.

when are you going to quit rambling

on about something totally unrelated to what I said from the very beginning????  ME learning another language because the US might invade a country in wartime?  Say what?  I'm not pretending to be ANYTHING.  I don't WANT to go to war.  What part of this aren't you getting?  Or is it simply that you don't want to discuss something specific... you just want to delve off into another subject?  This has nothing to do with what I do or don't do.  This was and IS a difference of opinion between being American and an American citizen.  And YOU, my friend, still didn't answer my question.

I absolutely believe that if someone wants to consider themselves American (citizens), then it is their responsibility to learn and use the language.  Period.  What does my knowing another language have to do with anything...lol.  And how do you know I don't speak several languages?  Good try.

And AGAIN... you're getting your panties all in a wad because you simply aren't reading my words again.  I have stated TIME AND TIME AGAIN... I do not have any authority to determine who is or isn't American.  This is my opinion.  I have a right to it.  I have a right to speak it.  Doesn't make it law, just my opinion.  So get off that soap box as well. 

As far as my serving... I'm a little old for that.  But my son is a US Marine.  So tone down the "what are YOU doing" bit.  Don't bother questioning what I do as a civilian regarding serving my community.  Not sure what all your rambling about the homeless is all about.  And I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure that out either.

Just as a little correction as well.  The Congress has not declared war on any country since WWI.  The President in fact DOES have the authority to recognize a "state of war" initiated against the United States and can unilaterally send U.S. troops into battle.  And since you like forgetting what I've already said, this in no way indicates a desire to GO to war with anyone.  Not Iran, or Israel, or anyone else. 

So again, I ask you.  Why are you here and not in Iran protecting your innocent children and protecting families? 

Blue Haired Lady

Marge,
I normally try NOT to get involved in religious debate, for because such subjects usually are philosophical and theological analysis in nature. However most often than not they lead to and get commingled with political overtone.

With that said, I shall check it out.

Thanks
-YT

Just imagine!

Just imagine the stink ... I am glad I was not there! At least that uncivilized guy will end up buying a new pair of shoes!!!