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Justice under god
15-Dec-2007
Justice must correspond to the necessities of our time. The penal system of the Islamic Republic of Iran is not in compliance with our society’s expectations. Our Iranian norms of morality and Islamic jurisprudence can never be in harmony. To describe how this penal system was mechanically grafted on our society, we must go back to the first years after the revolution of 1979 in Iran to see how the IRI steadily developed ever greater repression, with an increase both in the number of executions and in violence in general throughout the country.
Immediately after the February 1979 revolution, Revolutionary Courts were set up to prosecute agents of the Pahlavi regime. People were tried retroactively for acts which did not constitute penal offences at the time they were committed. Since 1979, according to the statements of opposition groups, 3,350 persons have been executed, more than 2,000 of them since the dismissal of President Bani Sadr, i.e. from June to October 1981.
Accused persons have been put on trial with no previous warning of the charges and no opportunity to prepare a defence, to engage a lawyer or to bring witnesses in their defence. They were condemned to death without any rights of appeal, whether within the law or under clemency and summarily executed. Those not condemned to death were in peril of double jeopardy. An example was General Nazemi who was condemned to 15 years imprisonment, but a few months later was retried on the same charges, condemned to death and executed; this was in violation of all international norms, including the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights to which Iran is a party (1). Death sentences have been accompanied by flogging or carried out by stoning.
Having dealt with the former officials of the Shah’s regime, the courts began to concentrate on people accused of moral transgressions and of being “counter-revolutionaries” (i.e. anyone opposed to the Khomeini regime). The charges included “corruption on earth” and “waging war against God, his Prophet, his Imam and representatives of the Imam”. This policy followed the line of action which Ayatollah Khomeini emphasised in a speech in the Feyzieh Islamic Institute of Learning: “It is a day to day programme of identifying the opponents of Islam, our struggle against them shall become more intense” (2). And so it did.
The repression discarded rule of any law. Examples of this arbitrary rule were as follows:
--many prisoners under the Shah’s regime were released in February 1979, only to be re-imprisoned, if not executed. Such was the case of Reza Saadati, an MOK member (MOK or the People’s Mojahdin Organisation of Iran is an Islamic opposition group). Mr. Saadati was first sentenced to ten years imprisonment, and then shot after a second, secret trial;
--ethnic minorities (Kurds, Turks, Arabs, Turkamens, and Baluchis) have seen their demand for a greater degree of self-government met with repression. Cases of massacres, imprisonment and executions have been widely reported; religious groups banned by Islam have been increasingly harassed under the IRI. The Baha’is, who numbered about one half million in Iran before the revolution, faced charges such as promotion of prostitution, cooperation with Zionism, spying for imperialist powers, corruption on earth and warring against God. Thousands have lost their homes and possessions, thousands have been dismissed from their jobs and many of them have been executed by revolutionary firing squads;
-- the main opposition groups after the overthrow of the Shah (democratic groups, moderate Islamic groups, the MOK and left-wing opposition) were not only been denied the right to share power in post-revolutionary Iran, but were severely repressed. Not a week has passed without arrests and executions of many of their members;
-- writers, poets and artists are particularly harassed. The first Islamic Revolutionary Judge, Sheik Sadegh Khalkhali, an infamous psychopath, did not hesitate to demand the execution of intellectuals such as Chamlou, a famous Iranian author who was well-known for his non-adherence to any political party and his non-involvement in any political activities. Khalkhali was responsible for many arbitrary executions. According to Judge Abdolkarim Ardibili, President of the Supreme Court, many defence lawyers were arrested, imprisoned and in at least one case, executed;
--those who faced firing squads included women and youths. It was reported Time Magazine on September 20, 1981 that 150 youngsters were shot in a mass execution on September 4(3). In a statement, Tehran’s revolutionary prosecutor, Assadollah Lajevardi declared on June 1981: “Of course, even a 9-year old can be executed if it has been proved to the court that he or she is grown enough”(4). It was reported that 13-year-old children had been shot. Lajevardi continued, “Counter-revolutionary activities, included the distribution of leaflets, incitement of innocent youths to subversion, and participation in demonstrations (charges often leading to death sentences)”. Following this declaration, in a campaign to muzzle dissent in the schools, the IRI arrested teenagers. The number of students barred from school was estimated at over 70,000 in the first two years after the revolution; (5)
--cases of torture and ill-treatment have been regularly reported. The IRI sought to justify these measures as necessary to repress attacks made by terrorists. Undoubtedly, the attack against the Islamic Republic Party (IRP) on June 28, 1981 (killing 74 of the party’s officials and leading Ayatollah Beheshti) and the bombing on August 30, 1981 (killing President Mohammad Ali Radjai and Prime Minister Mohammad Bahonar) were turning points in the escalation of violence and the IRI’s increasing repression. The regime demanded that people help the Judicial Body in arresting counter- revolutionaries, even if they were their own relatives;
-- on August 12, 1981, IRI’s Foreign Ministry ordered Iranian embassies and missions to draw up a list of Baha’is, counter-revolutionaries and “so-called students” living in their jurisdiction. It also prohibited the renewal of their passports and ordered instead issuance of a “transit-paper”, valid only for a return journey to Iran (6);
--lawyers’ defending political prisoners was difficult, and after the two above-mentioned terror attacks on the IRI President and Prime Minister became impossible. Indeed, according to statements by higher judicial officials, the defence of offenders would be contrary to Islamic laws, in that the defender is an accessory to the accused person’s crimes. This was borne out by a report that a qualified lawyer, Mr. Mohsen Jahandar, had been accused of defending prisoners before Revolutionary Committees, condemned to death and shot before a firing squad at about the end of August, 1981;
--the Revolutionary Tribunals turned to trying cases which were not within their jurisdiction as defined in their penal system, including charges of homosexuality, prostitution, adultery, simple theft and drinking alcohol. Sentences of death by firing squad or by stoning were imposed for homosexuality, prostitution and adultery; the cutting off of a hand for simple theft.
The IRI not only misused its own jurisdiction, but justified violence in the streets on the highest authority. On September 19, 1981, in an address broadcast on radio and television, Ayatollah Moussavi, Revolutionary Procurator General, stated that “to kill the people who stand against this regime and its just Imam (Khomeini) is a prescribed duty according to Islamic laws. If they are captured, our men will not let them eat and sleep for a few months. The trial of these people is in the streets. I also order the city prosecutors to do the same; otherwise they themselves will be punished” (8).
On the same day, Ayatollah Mohammadi Gillani, the Ghazi Shara’ of Tehran (Tehran’s Islamic Judge), stated at a press conference in Evin Prison, “Islam permits people engaged in armed demonstrations in the streets to be captured, stood against the wall of the street and shot”.
The highlight of repression begins with the Bill of Retribution, a series of articles degrading the worth of a man's life to100 camels or 200 cows and that of a woman to half of the man's, 50 camels or 100 cows. It was the beginning of judicial violation of all standards of Human Rights.
In January, 1981, the Bill of Retribution was submitted to Parliament, mandating stoning, amputation of limbs and gouging out of eyes as punishments. This bill was developed by the Supreme Leader’s Judicial Council. In some cities, the clergy did not wait for legal sanction but had already begun to practice Islamic Justice on their own.
Public response was initially muted by disbelief, which gave way to a horrified outcry. Progressive analyses of the Bill were circulated. Organisations of religious minorities, women and other democratic people demonstrated at the Department of Justice and at Parliament but were met with silence. Then, in September 1981, the Bill was passed.
The Bill assumes that the human body and its parts are convertible into money. The idea of receiving blood money is based on this kind of assumption. Here the class nature of this bill is revealed; it serves only the rich. Only they can afford to pay fines for their crimes in lieu of physical punishment. The following descriptions show how this barbaric bill can return our society to the Dark Ages:
--the Bill ignores that the goal of punishment is the rehabilitation of the individual and society. It defines punishment as individual retaliation. The social aspect of crimes is completely neglected so that punishment becomes a right of the next of kin, or the private plaintiff. This symbolises a return to a tribal age when feuds were the custom (ARTICLE 7);
--in this bill, the value of a woman is assumed to be half that of a man. In a case of voluntary manslaughter, her testimony has no value. In the case of the murder of a woman by a man, the family of the woman must pay the murderer half of his blood money before retaliating. Otherwise there will be no punishment; he merely has to pay the blood money of the woman, which is half that of a man; (ARTICLE 5)
--murder committed in the line of duty still demands retaliation, thus, if a commander orders his soldier or police officer to kill someone, the one who was compelled to follow the orders of the commander can be sentenced to death, while the commander will be only sentenced to imprisonment; (ARTICLE 4)
--according to the Bill, it is permissible to kill one’s child. In other words, if the father or paternal grandfather murders his child, even if the child is fifty years old, he will be exempt from retaliation; (ARTICLE 6)
--according to the Bill, people can be killed for insulting the prophet or the saints and the murderer will be exempt from the punishment. (ARTICLE23)
--this Article is a tool for the suppression of all those who politically or ideologically oppose the IRI;
--according to the Bill, if a person is sentenced to several penalties, all the penalties will be carried out. For example, if the penalty includes whipping and stoning to death, the assailant will be whipped first and then stoned to death; (ARTICLE 110)
--the Bill, in many of its articles, discriminates against the non-Muslim citizens of Iran, relegating their rights to half or even less than those of Muslim citizens. (ARTICLES 100, 151)
--according to the Bill, a man can murder his wife and her companion in the case of adultery. He will not be punished;
--the code does not provide any punishment in case of murder of an individual who is mentally ill;
--the sentence for consuming alcohol for the first time is whipping. However, the third time that a person is accused of drinking alcohol; he will be sentenced to death;
The Bill of Retribution states that all the penalties should be implemented in public. The Islamic Judge should notify the public of the time of the event. It is necessary that at least three Muslims be present during the ceremonies;
--in all cases, guilt is proven through confession or the testimony of witnesses. It is enough for two Islamic Committee members or Revolutionary Guards to falsely testify against a person to endanger his life;
--by emphasising confession as a means of proving guilt, the Bill paves the way for torturing individuals in order to force them to confess;
--according to the Bill, married men and women will be stoned to death for adultery. The sentence will be implemented with full medieval ceremony. (ARTICLE 100)
The Bill describes the penalty as follows: “The man up to his waist and the woman up to her chest will be placed in a ditch and then stoned. The stones should neither be too big nor too small. ”Big stones kill too quickly.
It is important to note that the Bill, in many cases, is in conflict with the Constitution that was ratified by the same ruling organs! The Bill explicitly violates: Article 14 of the Constitution, which obliges the government and its Muslim citizens to deal fairly with non-Muslim citizens and to observe their Constitutional rights; Article 19, which states that Iranian people of any tribe or sect have equal rights, and that colour, race, language, gender, will not be reasons for withholding privileges; and Article 20 which guarantees all Iranian citizens, both men and women, equality under the Constitution.
References:
1) Human Rights Violations in the Republic of Iran, Chicago, 11, May 1980.
2) Imam Khomeini, „The revolutionary line”, Great Islamic Library.
3) Time Magazine, 20, September 1981.
4) International Herald Tribune, 30, September 1981
5) Giam Iran newspaper, Tehran, 28, June 1981.
6) ICJ Review No.26, p.23.
7) See ICJ Review No.25, at p.21.
8) Kayhan newspaper, Tehran, 20, September 1981.
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Tolerance ... (Re: Jamshid)
by Anonym7.1 (not verified) on Wed Dec 19, 2007 05:36 AM PSTJamshid says "Let me know if you need further assistance in your new quest for tolerance."
You are not in a position to preach tolerance or assist with my quest for tolerance. You have been advised by many, and in many forums by people from different sides and you have not changed a bit, how do you want to assist me?
I have lived in Iran and outside Iran as a mortad, I have found absolute majority of Iranian Moslems (only Iranian Moslems not Pakistanis, Saudis, etc.) very tolerant. In my last year's trip to Iran I found them even more open minded than before.
However, I am sure you can assist in teaching tolerance to some Saudi Moslems that I met here in the US when I was a student, you are perhaps a tiny bit more tolerant than those guys, Jamshidak.
Re:Anonymous777
by jamshid on Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:49 PM PSTThen I suggest a mission for you. Go teach die hard moslems tolerance. teach them not to prosecute other religions, you know like Bahais among others. Teach them not to kill or mistreat "morteds". That's a good starting point for you. And if you succeed, then maybe people won't react to their persecutions, like I do.
Let me know if you need further assistance in your new quest for tolerance.
Jammy...
by Rosie T. on Tue Dec 18, 2007 09:40 PM PSTmoderaton...in all things....
incubation's essence in the uterus ship of the moon
will kill of all corrupted cells...
incubation...uterus....moon....
ff...freedom fighter...frequent flyer..founding father..femme fatal...
foetus flowing...
fear foresworn...
feel forgiving...
fanaa...fanaa...
Rosie
sure Jamshid, respect for the other is the foundation...
by Anonymous777 (not verified) on Tue Dec 18, 2007 09:26 PM PSTJamshid says "It seems to me that you are the one who owes an apology to Iran."
sure Jamshid, I appologize to Moslem and non Moslems in Iran/IRI that I did not respect because of their religious beliefs, as I have learned that respect for other's beliefs is the foundation for democracy and freedom.
Hopefully that is what you were looking for Jamshidak.
Re: Anonym7.1
by jamshid on Tue Dec 18, 2007 07:57 PM PSTI stand by my words. The IRI is the closest thing to a demonic government. It and its supporters HAVE taken over my country. Therefore, I do not consider IRI people "hamvatan".
Because any Iranian who turns his face from the IRI acts of torturing, hanging, raping, stealing, stoning, imprisoning, surpressing, brutalizing and violating its fellow countrymen, by default has lost its "Iranian" citizenship.
It seems to me that you are the one who owes an apology to Iran.
Re: Rosie T
by jamshid on Tue Dec 18, 2007 07:57 PM PSTI was not aware of any moderations. Thanks for the info.
Re: Jamshid
by Anonym7.1 (not verified) on Tue Dec 18, 2007 07:45 PM PSTjamshid says, "You say that many IRI people don't hide their mistakes. Ok. Then why dont' you give me a list of IRI's mistake? We can go from there."
As I mentioned I am not an anti IRI person, in your binary world you might automatically classify me as "IRI people" but that is your problem to sort out.
By the way Jamshid, "k" was prefixed to your name so that next time you write about your hamvatans you be more careful:
do you remember your post 23325?
//iranian.com/main/2007/inviting-intervention...
Let me refresh your memory, you said: "...you .... are not even human beings, you are some sort of demons who have taken over my poor country."
Now you can apologize for that and "We can go from there"!
Jamshid...moderation
by Rosie T. on Tue Dec 18, 2007 07:37 PM PSTHi. You're not changing the subject at all. The question of moderation is ALWAYS on topic. I will tell you what I know:
You can flag a post for any reason. Several options are given including "other" where you can explain yourself. Flagged posts go directly to JJ but he has also delegated responsibility for deleting posts to eight volunteer moderators who simply have the capability of deleting any posts which they happen upon which they find to be extremely offensive. He instituted this system two months ago during the hubbub when the website was getting so out of control and so many writers threatened to leave.
I routinely flag things that I find extremely offensive. They don't always contain profanity and I don't always flag profanity either. An example of something I routinely flag is accusing Rashidian of being MKO every time he comments on any blog. I don't flag such posts on HIS blogs although they greatly irritate me, unless they also include vulgarity too, because I don't consider them off-topic in the same way. I only flagged three posts on this thread (two by his/her Royal Highness).
JJ didn't make the names of those moderators public but he is still grappling with this issue because transparency is always GOOD,But if the volunteer moderators are known, then a kind of hierarchy is established which is (in my opinion) somehow antithetical to the vision of this website and also harmful to those moderators, as it sets them off as "someone different from everyone else" when they're only doing this because they BELIEVE so much in being PART of these discussions along with everyone else. So you see it's really a sticky wicket.
And one in progress. If you check out jj's recent blogs you'll find several concerns voiced about the moderation process and Javid is concerned too. As far as I recall, he hasn't specifically answered those questions, but I know from him that he's grappling with the issue.
Fouad is the technical director of iranian.com. All technical questions go to him. There's also a business manager and a graphics person. It's a four-person team.
Thanks for asking :D
Robin
Mr. Rashidian, great article
by Farhad Kashani (not verified) on Tue Dec 18, 2007 06:01 PM PSTMr. Rashidian, great article and observation as always. Jamshid aziz, great feedbacks.
Re: Rosie T
by jamshid on Tue Dec 18, 2007 05:22 PM PSTI don't want to change the subject here. But I keep reading in this thread and others about "moderators" and deleted comments. Who are the "moderators"? I am kind of lost here. I thought nothing gets deleted except vulgarities. And who is Fouad?
Re: Anonym7.1
by jamshid on Tue Dec 18, 2007 05:15 PM PSTYour reply would have had a greater impact had you not used "jamshidak" to refer to me. That degraded your reply, and even more so degraded your character.
You say that IRI at the least is supporting a "skeleton" for the country not to collapse. So is this what proud Iranians have become? To accept and be happy with the absolute lowest minimum? I say NO to you.
You say that many IRI people don't hide their mistakes. Ok. Then why dont' you give me a list of IRI's mistake? We can go from there.
To Hamvatan regarding Moderation (also Zionism)
by Rosie T. on Tue Dec 18, 2007 03:16 PM PSTIf your reply to the comments in question by Hassan and Daryush were posted AS a reply (that is by clicking on "reply" to one of their comments), when their comments got deleted (either by themselves, JJ, or a volunteer moderator), your comment also got deleted, as did mine, which I'd worked on for a good hour. That is an automated process generated by the system itself. Conceivably the tech person--Fouad--could change it but I think it would be complicated, and he is quite snowed under, so the immediate solution is when you reply, DON'T click on "reply" to any particular message.
However, there are disadvantages to this: 1)If you DO click on "reply" it ensures that the comment you're replying TO can't be edited by the poster, which in turn ensures comprehensibility of your reply for future readers; and 2) if you click on "reply", you get a copy of the message you're replying to on screen while you're writing, allowing for clarity of discussion and cutting and pasting, if you wish. So it's your call. That's still for informational purposes if you DIDN'T click on "reply"... in which case I have no IDEA why your reply would've been deleted.
Also, thanks for remembering things I've written. That is very encouraging. It is true, I'm not a Zionist, I subscribe to a one-state solution as did Edward Said, with Truth and Reconciliation Commissions, along the lines of South Africa, and my break from Zionism in my youth (as well as my working at university with the Arab Students Organization, which had very loose ties with the PLO after the Israel-aided massacres in Lebanon in 1982) was the seed of much unhappiness in my family. But we survived it somehow. Because we love each other. Which proves the old adage correct: Love conquers all. Surrender. :D And also, "No pain, no gain."
I'm so glad you disagree with me about so many things. I always learn more from those who disagree than from those who agree. After all, I already know what the latter think...they think what I think...or at least what I think I think...so please, when you disagree, if you feel so moved, "fire away." I'm always up for for a SERIOUS debate, from which I assume we will BOTH emerge transformed in some way...
Best,
Robin
Dariyush & Hassan Are you that ignorant?
by hamvatan (not verified) on Tue Dec 18, 2007 02:28 PM PSTFor the record, I also just posted a response to Dariyush & Hassan's comments and idiotic rethoric. It was erased as well. I don't understand why it is erased. That is very stupid by the moderators. This censorship thing is going to far! These jerks were being exposed for what they stand for.
Just for the record, Hassan & Dariyush, your comments to Rosie were ignorant because
1) The Nazis did kill children as part of their Final Solution- You sound Ignorant like your dear president Antarinejad. Zionist do not intentionally kill woman and children- as badly as they have treated the palestinians. The Nazis did! Additionally, the number of Paletinians in the entire 60 year conflict does not even equal to 25,000. The IRI has killed many more Iranians in cold blood in the past 30 years.
2) As to Rosie, although I do not agree with her at all on many issues, she has many times stated that she is not a zionist so its not even an issue.
You guys are very ignorant!
A COMMENT ABOUT THIS THREAD
by Rosie T. on Tue Dec 18, 2007 01:23 PM PSTI just replied to two posts, one by Hassan and one by Daryush, both accusing me of being a "Zionist stooge" intentionally distracting the Iranian youth from substantive discussion, based on alleged comments I made about Hitler which I never made. While I found these posts irrational at best and malicious at worst, I did not find them offensive enough to warrent flagging for deletion. Nevertheless they have been deleted, along with my reply attached to one of them (all replies to deleted posts being automatically deleted along with the original post)... So what I would like to know is, were these posts deleted by the posters? If not, then they were deleted by the moderators, in which case I shall pursue a discussion with Jahanshah Javid about the parameters of moderation on this website--a discussion which he himself initiated with me.
Please do not construe therefore that JJ and I are working together in cahoots for some government or organization. Nor are JJ and Rashidian, or Rashidian and I, in cahoots, as has been accused on this thread. Rashidian, JJ, and I are all very different people with different political and cultural viewpoints, and I'll add to that Jamshid, and nevertheless, this new technology has allowed me to have extensive discussions with all three of them to the point where I like to think of them as friends.
And that is the kind of world I like to live in and that is the future that I envision. I hope I have made myself clear.
Best regards,
Robin Jayne Goldsmith
Don't lie
by Face the Fact (not verified) on Tue Dec 18, 2007 08:16 AM PSTAs long as we lie we will not get anywhere. Shah was not ideal at all, but he was a saint and an angel compared to ANY leader of IRI. Those who have been with khomeini and then turned against IRI have already confessed that they wildly exaggerated the atrocities of the shah. Likes of ganji and baghi have put the total deaths under shah from 1963 to 1979 (in prisons, executions, confrontations in the streets like siahkal, but excluding those killed in the year of revolution on the streets) to hundreds -- that is equivalent to a single day of executions by khomeini. They claim that numbers quoted by khomeini were simply lies. Also, at the beginning of revolution IRI claimed that shah had stolen some 20 billion dollars (billion with B). Well, we don't hear that anymore now that iranian wealth is shipping to hezbollah (380 million dollars according to american sources) and sadr (up to 3 million dollars a day, according to american sources) and personal accounts in gulf banks by hundreds of million of dollars. I do not understand why some people still lie to boost IRI and prove that this disaster is still better than shah's regime. That will not get us anywhere. Criticize shah as much as you want, but justify it with facts rather than exaggerations or based on any religious fanaticism.
where JR goes wrong ...(Re: Jamshid)
by Anonym7.1 (not verified) on Tue Dec 18, 2007 07:16 AM PSTJamshid says, "I am still waiting for one counter-reply by the Islamists to the issues brought up in the article."
Jamshid, I am not an Islamist but since I am not an anti IRI Iranian I will give you my answer. JR correctly points to many mistakes that have happed and are happening. I beleive he does a service to the country and even IRI by pointing out those mistakes. But he goes very wrong when he says "The IRI is the occupier of our country", when he calls IRI "facsist" .. etc.
Despite all its shorcomings IRI provide a skeleton that the country will collapse without it and that level of justuse which is there will also collapse.
Best way to improve what JR doesn't like is change at a pace that can be accommodated by our culture (religious and otherwise).
Jamshidak, unlike you and many others in opposition, very many of IRI supporters including the Islamists don't try to hide their mistakes, that is why IRI of today is very different from that of 28 years ago.
To Daryush
by Rosie T. on Tue Dec 18, 2007 05:10 AM PSTThank you for your long and interesting post. At the end you wrote:
"This talk is long and I believe we won’t get anywhere… "
Yes it is long, but I believe we could get somewhere--but not if you think we won't. So would you like me to reply to your post or not?
Another possibility is to have a discussion privately since there are very bizarre distractons on this thread.
Please let me know whether you would like me to pursue a discussion with you publicly or privately, or to just let your reply stand as it is.
Best regards,
Robin Jayne Goldsmith
To all concerning Princess Ashgar
by Rosie T. on Tue Dec 18, 2007 05:01 AM PSTIt is impossible to take seriously any person who states the following:
1) "First of all, I am not just "Asghar", I am "Princess Asghar"."
2)"The murders of that idiot Shah, far exceeded anything that Hitler may have done"
3) "shut up and read!!! others reactions (if not deleted by "moderators")." --
--when I just said only two short comments dong nothing but calling names were deleted from this thread.
4. "he has a suspect background"
--when I just said I keep asking for documentation of these claims and get none, including in this person's last post.
5. Anyone who thinks Javid's and Rashidian's views are the same.
6. Anyone who calls me "Missy."
It is a waste of time to dialogue with such a person, or with anyone sounding like this person.
Ignore this person, please.
To the IR's apologists and
by Anonymous88 (not verified) on Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:02 AM PSTTo the IR's apologists and propagandists:
Crimes, thievary, and atrocities perpetrated by the mullahs dwarf anything that both Pahlavis did during their 50-year reign. Shah did not stone anyone to death and that alone makes him much better than all the criminal mullahs ruling the medieval republic.
Ganji himself, founder of Intelligence Minstry admitted that they had lied about the Shah and also Emad Baghi who is a former Islamist.
//www.emadbaghi.com/en/archives/000592.php
Akbar Ganji: We Lied about the Shah!
An ex-Revolutionary Guardsman Comes Clean!
N. Kamvari's interview with Akbar Ganji (Zamaneh Radio):
Ganji: We Lied!
ما دروغ میگفتیم،...
ما به دروغ میگفتیم حکومت شاه ۱۵۰ هزار زندانی سیاسی دارد و این دروغ بود، و امروز باید بابت این دروغ، یعنی خودمان و همه کسانی که این دروغ را گفتهاند باید خودشان را نقد بکنند. ما به دروغ میگفتیم حکومت شاه صمد بهرنگی را کشت، ما به دروغ گفتیم حکومت شاه صادق هدایت را کشت، ما به دروغ میگفتیم حکومت شاه دکتر شریعتی را کشت. همهی این دروغها را گفتهایم، آگاهانه هم گفتهایم
//news.gooya.eu/politics/archives/2007/01/056...
To:Incremental
by Anonymous½ (not verified) on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:28 PM PSTTo:Incremental change
Incremental change belong to open systems and democratic societies. Islamic Republic's Operating System is not compatible with any other system (both software and hardware). Islamic Republic's actions are it's hard print outs while the software is already programmed and is unalterable. Using computer analogy, you can't expect Mircorsoft operating system to run on a Mac or vice versa. You can't expect a blind man to see or a parapeligic to run a Marathon. You can't expect to be free and expect changes while the system is regressing and is systematically making every attempt to replicate the Medival Muslim Caliphate.
Re: Asghar
by jamshid on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:05 PM PST"The murders of that idiot Shah, far exceeded anything that Hitler may have done"??
That sentence alone invalidates everything else you wrote and invalidates your opinion as well.
The total number of those killed during the entire reign of the shah was in the 5000s. Khomeini's claim of 600,000 is false. Hitler killed by the millions.
To: Rosie T. (Re: Asghar)
by Princess Asghar (not verified) on Mon Dec 17, 2007 08:20 PM PSTRosie
First of all, I am not just "Asghar", I am "Princess Asghar". Secondly, you missy (if I may call you that), please just read the comments of others to this gentleman, and don't try to support his point of view. As many have indicated (several of those posts are deleted by JJ's "moderators") he has a suspect background (I was just reflecting on that in my previous post), and is inconsistent and inaccurate. Don't ask what points he is being inaccurate, since they are numerous and time consuming to highlight. Best I can tell you missy is to shut and read!!! others reactions (if not deleted by "moderators"). You seem to subliminally support anything and anyone who is anti IRI. If you knew why, that would have been fine. But you don't. And Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease don't raise that "I am a jew from eastern europe, with ancestors who died here and there" crap on me. You have not lived in Iran to know what sort of HELL the US government had created for iranians in over 3 decaded, and why we are in the mess that we are. The murders of that idiot Shah, far exceeded anything that Hitler may have done. You just don't know, and you try to spew crap supporting suspect characters that most Iranian dispise of. AND, next time, make sure you respect "Princess Asghar"!!!!
Ashgar:
by Rosie T. on Mon Dec 17, 2007 06:31 PM PSTSurely you are not implying that the one point of view which Jahanshah Javid upholds on this website is that of Jahanshah Rashidian? Rashidian has himself expressed on a recent blog his feeling that his articles are not featured frequently (they mostly appear as blogs) because Javid prefers views which are further left. Actually, the views on this website reflect a very broad spectrum of opinion. Anyway do you know how many times Javid has been accused of being an IRI agent by Shahis? Countless. Does that sound ridiculous to you? Well, with all due respect, that's how ridiculous you sound now. I mean I'm sorry but Javid = Rashidian? It is just simply laughable.
No posts containing any substance were deleted on this thread, they were just a couple of posts, and just slews of insults. I keep asking for the documentation of these accusations and all I get is more accusations and insults. Now you are claiming that the proofs have been deleted? Hardly. I'm still waiting patiently for those to come in.
To: Jamshid (Re: To all Islamists)
by Princess Asghar (not verified) on Mon Dec 17, 2007 04:06 PM PSTMr Jamshid,
Where have you been? Were you sleep all this time? Aren't you reading all the arguments against this gentleman? His hypocracy, invalid and inconsistent statistics, his past and suspect bakground, etc.?Of course several of them were deleted by iranian.com "moderators" since they were viewed as abusive to a CIA agent here named Rashidian, who happen to be write of it too. But still you should be getting the drift. Since JJ worked for IRI for a while he thinks news media should only provide one point of view. That is why him and his "moderators" delete anything that sounds "opposite" point of view.
Please maintain a civilized discussion.
by Rosie T. on Mon Dec 17, 2007 02:36 PM PSTI've brought this blog to the attention of the publisher and his volunteer moderators as a sensitive one particularly subject to verbal abuse. I've done so in the recent past with Ben Madadi and Soraya Sepapour-Ulrich, so, to repeat, my concerns have nothing to do with ideology. Please maintain a civilized discussion on both sides or your posts may be subject to deletion.
I encourage readers to flag clearly abusive posts.
Best regards,
Robin Jayne Goldsmith
RE: Rosie T.
by Daryush on Mon Dec 17, 2007 02:02 PM PSTYes I am comparing them. The time line is irrelevant. Are you telling me
that today Iraq is the same as today Afghanistan? or Iraq the same as India or
let's say Germany? That was the mistake of Mr. Bush, trying to implement a
government based on the American society. Now, if let's say that the Iranian
people have not been able to clear their path about the role of the religion in
the politics, then what do you suggest? I would say from the ideological point
of view Iran might be a few hundred years behind. The only difference between
Iran and some 3rd world countries is that Iranians are proud of their culture
and majority would want to find the final answer themselves. So I am
historically correct while you are emotionally correct. The
"atrocities" of the IRI is not exclusive to the current regime
because I am most certain that under any other regime, regardless of the name,
Iran would be an authoritarian society and government. Would like proof? just
take a look at all the countries similar to Iran, worse or better, they’re all
struggling with the same issues as Iranian society is today. Plus because the
Iranian government has been standing against the bullies of the west, they are
more demonized, while members from the Saudi and Egyptians are the terrorist,
but you don't hear that. I actually think that Iran will find an answer and it
won't be something that the west might like but must accept. To be honest, I
would love the British and American bullies to stop and their people revolt
against the western atrocities, but I have to accept that it won't happen.
Watch Iran within the next decade and see what I mean. By the way, with all due
respect to my Iranian friends, based on my experiences with them, they are a
bit lost when it comes to the Iranian history and traditional realities. Not
their fault since they mostly live in the US and you should know the kind of
education that the US will give kids especially about the Middle East! That’s
why some want a quick answer and such as revolution not knowing that the same
issues were rapped around their society and they did what ended up to be IRI.
Read the Katibeh or takhteh sang by Mehdi Akhavan Sales, who talks about a
nation that instead of learning from its past, continuously revolves around and
returns to the same point. This way dear Rosie, we will not become free. IRI is
a tool and our culture needs to evolve rather than only our government. You can’t
blame the regime of Iran alone, while the country has not grown culturally to
be democratic. I mean just take a look at the “Educated” Iranians in LA and
judge for yourself.
This talk is long and I believe we won’t get anywhere…
Re: To all Islamists
by jamshid on Mon Dec 17, 2007 01:18 PM PSTI am still waiting for one counter-reply by the Islamists to the issues brought up in the article. The fact that you have not countered any of these issues means that you accept them as the truth. Changing the subject won't deceive anyone.
Daryush....French Revolution....RE: One More Point ?????
by Rosie T. on Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:38 PM PSTI don't understand: are you comparing something that happened around two hundred years years ago (French Revolution) with laws and practices enacted less than 30 years old? This makes no sense.
Or are you saying the IRI's 30 years of abuse should not be criticized because they are still in the process of the Terror which led to the glorious French Republic? The French Revolution was Saturn, it devoured its own children. That happened in the 18th century. France was the second country on earth to become a Republic. Is long-term implementation of Terror acceptable now? Was it acceptable then?
I have an idea: you should recommend the IRI instead of stringing up minors from cranes in public squares, they should institute the use of guillotines to symbolize that this is just the first and necessary step toward building thier great "Republic". Oh, I forgot, guillotines would be "Western", right? IRI must inflict punishment specified in SHARIAH because that's the whole point of their "Revolution" right? To make sure Iranians get to participate in "their" culture, right?
So then why are you mentioning the French Revolution at all????
ba salaam, great piece...It
by ali (not verified) on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:51 AM PSTba salaam,
great piece...It is about time that these butchers are brought to justice!
the mullahs have desperately tried to silence anyone who speaks the truth or opposes their barbaric regime.
however, history is clear, that NO brutal regime can survive with the rule of force. even the current young generation in Iran, who have no idea how Iran was before these idiots took over, oppose them vehemently. they see how the rest of the world is living and what they are missing in their own country!
personally, I think these mullahs will fall in less than a week, if the chinese and the russians stop buying the oil! they are fully kept afloat by these blood suckers who don't care what happens to the people in Iran- they just want to line their pockets at the expense of our country.
although I am NOT for war, it is clear the the akhoonds will not bow down peacefully- they have to be exterminated, basically!
javid iran
R.Ananym 7
by Jahanshah Rashidian on Mon Dec 17, 2007 07:40 AM PSTSorry for the misunderstanding of names. I do not see an important correlation or contradiction between the 2 mentioned sentences-- except a grammatical carelessness in the second one: correct is "The IRI is the occupier of our country". So what is the critical point? Is it because I was for the last 3 decades in FR 7Ger? I could go to France to study(like other Iranian students) and then go to Germany to work (like all people) and still feel attached to my origin, Iran, like those people in Iran. Is any right or abnormality between my resident and my idea that Iran is occupied by the IRI?
Regards
JR