RIGHTS
به زبان فارسی
PICTORY
LATEST MUSIC
SEARCH
Justice under god
15-Dec-2007
Justice must correspond to the necessities of our time. The penal system of the Islamic Republic of Iran is not in compliance with our society’s expectations. Our Iranian norms of morality and Islamic jurisprudence can never be in harmony. To describe how this penal system was mechanically grafted on our society, we must go back to the first years after the revolution of 1979 in Iran to see how the IRI steadily developed ever greater repression, with an increase both in the number of executions and in violence in general throughout the country.
Immediately after the February 1979 revolution, Revolutionary Courts were set up to prosecute agents of the Pahlavi regime. People were tried retroactively for acts which did not constitute penal offences at the time they were committed. Since 1979, according to the statements of opposition groups, 3,350 persons have been executed, more than 2,000 of them since the dismissal of President Bani Sadr, i.e. from June to October 1981.
Accused persons have been put on trial with no previous warning of the charges and no opportunity to prepare a defence, to engage a lawyer or to bring witnesses in their defence. They were condemned to death without any rights of appeal, whether within the law or under clemency and summarily executed. Those not condemned to death were in peril of double jeopardy. An example was General Nazemi who was condemned to 15 years imprisonment, but a few months later was retried on the same charges, condemned to death and executed; this was in violation of all international norms, including the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights to which Iran is a party (1). Death sentences have been accompanied by flogging or carried out by stoning.
Having dealt with the former officials of the Shah’s regime, the courts began to concentrate on people accused of moral transgressions and of being “counter-revolutionaries” (i.e. anyone opposed to the Khomeini regime). The charges included “corruption on earth” and “waging war against God, his Prophet, his Imam and representatives of the Imam”. This policy followed the line of action which Ayatollah Khomeini emphasised in a speech in the Feyzieh Islamic Institute of Learning: “It is a day to day programme of identifying the opponents of Islam, our struggle against them shall become more intense” (2). And so it did.
The repression discarded rule of any law. Examples of this arbitrary rule were as follows:
--many prisoners under the Shah’s regime were released in February 1979, only to be re-imprisoned, if not executed. Such was the case of Reza Saadati, an MOK member (MOK or the People’s Mojahdin Organisation of Iran is an Islamic opposition group). Mr. Saadati was first sentenced to ten years imprisonment, and then shot after a second, secret trial;
--ethnic minorities (Kurds, Turks, Arabs, Turkamens, and Baluchis) have seen their demand for a greater degree of self-government met with repression. Cases of massacres, imprisonment and executions have been widely reported; religious groups banned by Islam have been increasingly harassed under the IRI. The Baha’is, who numbered about one half million in Iran before the revolution, faced charges such as promotion of prostitution, cooperation with Zionism, spying for imperialist powers, corruption on earth and warring against God. Thousands have lost their homes and possessions, thousands have been dismissed from their jobs and many of them have been executed by revolutionary firing squads;
-- the main opposition groups after the overthrow of the Shah (democratic groups, moderate Islamic groups, the MOK and left-wing opposition) were not only been denied the right to share power in post-revolutionary Iran, but were severely repressed. Not a week has passed without arrests and executions of many of their members;
-- writers, poets and artists are particularly harassed. The first Islamic Revolutionary Judge, Sheik Sadegh Khalkhali, an infamous psychopath, did not hesitate to demand the execution of intellectuals such as Chamlou, a famous Iranian author who was well-known for his non-adherence to any political party and his non-involvement in any political activities. Khalkhali was responsible for many arbitrary executions. According to Judge Abdolkarim Ardibili, President of the Supreme Court, many defence lawyers were arrested, imprisoned and in at least one case, executed;
--those who faced firing squads included women and youths. It was reported Time Magazine on September 20, 1981 that 150 youngsters were shot in a mass execution on September 4(3). In a statement, Tehran’s revolutionary prosecutor, Assadollah Lajevardi declared on June 1981: “Of course, even a 9-year old can be executed if it has been proved to the court that he or she is grown enough”(4). It was reported that 13-year-old children had been shot. Lajevardi continued, “Counter-revolutionary activities, included the distribution of leaflets, incitement of innocent youths to subversion, and participation in demonstrations (charges often leading to death sentences)”. Following this declaration, in a campaign to muzzle dissent in the schools, the IRI arrested teenagers. The number of students barred from school was estimated at over 70,000 in the first two years after the revolution; (5)
--cases of torture and ill-treatment have been regularly reported. The IRI sought to justify these measures as necessary to repress attacks made by terrorists. Undoubtedly, the attack against the Islamic Republic Party (IRP) on June 28, 1981 (killing 74 of the party’s officials and leading Ayatollah Beheshti) and the bombing on August 30, 1981 (killing President Mohammad Ali Radjai and Prime Minister Mohammad Bahonar) were turning points in the escalation of violence and the IRI’s increasing repression. The regime demanded that people help the Judicial Body in arresting counter- revolutionaries, even if they were their own relatives;
-- on August 12, 1981, IRI’s Foreign Ministry ordered Iranian embassies and missions to draw up a list of Baha’is, counter-revolutionaries and “so-called students” living in their jurisdiction. It also prohibited the renewal of their passports and ordered instead issuance of a “transit-paper”, valid only for a return journey to Iran (6);
--lawyers’ defending political prisoners was difficult, and after the two above-mentioned terror attacks on the IRI President and Prime Minister became impossible. Indeed, according to statements by higher judicial officials, the defence of offenders would be contrary to Islamic laws, in that the defender is an accessory to the accused person’s crimes. This was borne out by a report that a qualified lawyer, Mr. Mohsen Jahandar, had been accused of defending prisoners before Revolutionary Committees, condemned to death and shot before a firing squad at about the end of August, 1981;
--the Revolutionary Tribunals turned to trying cases which were not within their jurisdiction as defined in their penal system, including charges of homosexuality, prostitution, adultery, simple theft and drinking alcohol. Sentences of death by firing squad or by stoning were imposed for homosexuality, prostitution and adultery; the cutting off of a hand for simple theft.
The IRI not only misused its own jurisdiction, but justified violence in the streets on the highest authority. On September 19, 1981, in an address broadcast on radio and television, Ayatollah Moussavi, Revolutionary Procurator General, stated that “to kill the people who stand against this regime and its just Imam (Khomeini) is a prescribed duty according to Islamic laws. If they are captured, our men will not let them eat and sleep for a few months. The trial of these people is in the streets. I also order the city prosecutors to do the same; otherwise they themselves will be punished” (8).
On the same day, Ayatollah Mohammadi Gillani, the Ghazi Shara’ of Tehran (Tehran’s Islamic Judge), stated at a press conference in Evin Prison, “Islam permits people engaged in armed demonstrations in the streets to be captured, stood against the wall of the street and shot”.
The highlight of repression begins with the Bill of Retribution, a series of articles degrading the worth of a man's life to100 camels or 200 cows and that of a woman to half of the man's, 50 camels or 100 cows. It was the beginning of judicial violation of all standards of Human Rights.
In January, 1981, the Bill of Retribution was submitted to Parliament, mandating stoning, amputation of limbs and gouging out of eyes as punishments. This bill was developed by the Supreme Leader’s Judicial Council. In some cities, the clergy did not wait for legal sanction but had already begun to practice Islamic Justice on their own.
Public response was initially muted by disbelief, which gave way to a horrified outcry. Progressive analyses of the Bill were circulated. Organisations of religious minorities, women and other democratic people demonstrated at the Department of Justice and at Parliament but were met with silence. Then, in September 1981, the Bill was passed.
The Bill assumes that the human body and its parts are convertible into money. The idea of receiving blood money is based on this kind of assumption. Here the class nature of this bill is revealed; it serves only the rich. Only they can afford to pay fines for their crimes in lieu of physical punishment. The following descriptions show how this barbaric bill can return our society to the Dark Ages:
--the Bill ignores that the goal of punishment is the rehabilitation of the individual and society. It defines punishment as individual retaliation. The social aspect of crimes is completely neglected so that punishment becomes a right of the next of kin, or the private plaintiff. This symbolises a return to a tribal age when feuds were the custom (ARTICLE 7);
--in this bill, the value of a woman is assumed to be half that of a man. In a case of voluntary manslaughter, her testimony has no value. In the case of the murder of a woman by a man, the family of the woman must pay the murderer half of his blood money before retaliating. Otherwise there will be no punishment; he merely has to pay the blood money of the woman, which is half that of a man; (ARTICLE 5)
--murder committed in the line of duty still demands retaliation, thus, if a commander orders his soldier or police officer to kill someone, the one who was compelled to follow the orders of the commander can be sentenced to death, while the commander will be only sentenced to imprisonment; (ARTICLE 4)
--according to the Bill, it is permissible to kill one’s child. In other words, if the father or paternal grandfather murders his child, even if the child is fifty years old, he will be exempt from retaliation; (ARTICLE 6)
--according to the Bill, people can be killed for insulting the prophet or the saints and the murderer will be exempt from the punishment. (ARTICLE23)
--this Article is a tool for the suppression of all those who politically or ideologically oppose the IRI;
--according to the Bill, if a person is sentenced to several penalties, all the penalties will be carried out. For example, if the penalty includes whipping and stoning to death, the assailant will be whipped first and then stoned to death; (ARTICLE 110)
--the Bill, in many of its articles, discriminates against the non-Muslim citizens of Iran, relegating their rights to half or even less than those of Muslim citizens. (ARTICLES 100, 151)
--according to the Bill, a man can murder his wife and her companion in the case of adultery. He will not be punished;
--the code does not provide any punishment in case of murder of an individual who is mentally ill;
--the sentence for consuming alcohol for the first time is whipping. However, the third time that a person is accused of drinking alcohol; he will be sentenced to death;
The Bill of Retribution states that all the penalties should be implemented in public. The Islamic Judge should notify the public of the time of the event. It is necessary that at least three Muslims be present during the ceremonies;
--in all cases, guilt is proven through confession or the testimony of witnesses. It is enough for two Islamic Committee members or Revolutionary Guards to falsely testify against a person to endanger his life;
--by emphasising confession as a means of proving guilt, the Bill paves the way for torturing individuals in order to force them to confess;
--according to the Bill, married men and women will be stoned to death for adultery. The sentence will be implemented with full medieval ceremony. (ARTICLE 100)
The Bill describes the penalty as follows: “The man up to his waist and the woman up to her chest will be placed in a ditch and then stoned. The stones should neither be too big nor too small. ”Big stones kill too quickly.
It is important to note that the Bill, in many cases, is in conflict with the Constitution that was ratified by the same ruling organs! The Bill explicitly violates: Article 14 of the Constitution, which obliges the government and its Muslim citizens to deal fairly with non-Muslim citizens and to observe their Constitutional rights; Article 19, which states that Iranian people of any tribe or sect have equal rights, and that colour, race, language, gender, will not be reasons for withholding privileges; and Article 20 which guarantees all Iranian citizens, both men and women, equality under the Constitution.
References:
1) Human Rights Violations in the Republic of Iran, Chicago, 11, May 1980.
2) Imam Khomeini, „The revolutionary line”, Great Islamic Library.
3) Time Magazine, 20, September 1981.
4) International Herald Tribune, 30, September 1981
5) Giam Iran newspaper, Tehran, 28, June 1981.
6) ICJ Review No.26, p.23.
7) See ICJ Review No.25, at p.21.
8) Kayhan newspaper, Tehran, 20, September 1981.
| Recently by Jahanshah Rashidian | Comments | Date |
|---|---|---|
| Journée Internationale des Femmes | - | Mar 08, 2010 |
| Stop Indian Gasoline for Mullahs’ Repressive Machinery | 13 | Feb 04, 2010 |
| Iran Fails United Opposition | 5 | Jan 20, 2010 |
RECENT COMMENTS
IRANIANS OF THE DAY
| Person | About | Day |
|---|---|---|
| نسرین ستوده: زندانی روز | Dec 04 | |
| Saeed Malekpour: Prisoner of the day | Lawyer says death sentence suspended | Dec 03 |
| Majid Tavakoli: Prisoner of the day | Iterview with mother | Dec 02 |
| احسان نراقی: جامعه شناس و نویسنده ۱۳۰۵-۱۳۹۱ | Dec 02 | |
| Nasrin Sotoudeh: Prisoner of the day | 46 days on hunger strike | Dec 01 |
| Nasrin Sotoudeh: Graffiti | In Barcelona | Nov 30 |
| گوهر عشقی: مادر ستار بهشتی | Nov 30 | |
| Abdollah Momeni: Prisoner of the day | Activist denied leave and family visits for 1.5 years | Nov 30 |
| محمد کلالی: یکی از حمله کنندگان به سفارت ایران در برلین | Nov 29 | |
| Habibollah Golparipour: Prisoner of the day | Kurdish Activist on Death Row | Nov 28 |
Choice not Chance
by Sasha on Sat Dec 29, 2007 02:09 AM PSTChoice not Chance
Determines Destiny.
Choose to Be Proactive.
Choose not to Blame
Circumstances,
Conditions, or Conditioning
for your Behavior.
You have the Initiative and
the Responsibility to make things
happen instead of merely being Acted Upon.
-Anonymous
solh
Reply to dot
by Sasha on Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:43 PM PSTThe reality of things is that the Mexican government itself has always been a major problem in my country. You and I cannot continue to blame everything on the US.
It is too easy to play the victim and not take a good look at ourselves and be accountable. There certainly needs to be better education in my country. The illiteracy rate is too high. Well, there are just so many issues with my country and I prefer not to discuss them at length here.
solh
Re: Rosie T.
by jamshid on Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:16 PM PSTExactly! Very nicely said. Put those words in a gold frame and hang it on the wall.
If it's not the US, it's the British, if not them the Russians, the Romans, the Persians, ... There has always been plenty of countries/empires to blame.
One would ask why CAN'T the US does the same to the Germans? Or to Israelis? Or Spain? Or to many other countries? The answer is that because the people in those countries don't blame the US for everything. They take charge of their destiny and don't make stupid mistakes in their choices.
This "blame it only to the superpowers" attitude is outmoded and backwarded. The US has many things to do with Iran's problems, but it is only a small ratio compared to our own ills.
YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE!
by Rosie T. on Wed Dec 26, 2007 09:45 PM PSTZoroastriansim sees the problem very clearly. There are forces of light and forces of darkness in the world. They exist within and they exist without. They are EVERYWHERE. Individuals, and individual groups and nations, must choose light over darkness. Spiritual Islam also recognizes this: the "true jihad" is the mastery of the indiviudal over him/herself. NOt over someone or something ELSE. It is a question of AUTONOMY.
Who will ultimately be responsible for the fate of Iran? Or Mexico? or Africa? Or Nepal? Or Tahiti? Does the fate of these nations lie somewhere ELSE or do they have AGENCY?
Can they choose light or MUST they BLAME the forces of darkness without? The forces of darkness will always be among us. Yes, there was CIA intervention, yes, there was Kermit Roosevelt. But to exclusively BLAME these forces from without for the past and the future is to consign Iran to these very forces.
TO WHOM DOES THE FUTURE OF IRAN BELONG?
Choose. Does it belong to George Bush and Dick Cheney or does it belong to Iran?
WHO OWNS THE FUTURE OF IRAN?
Choose.
If you choose Bush, you make it so.
If you choose Iran, you also make it so.
Robin
To Sasha
by . (not verified) on Tue Dec 25, 2007 08:05 PM PSTSasha,
You ask:
I have often wondered, "What would it take to see my country prosper?"
My short hand answer is, take your nation back. Right now it is being run bt the stooges of US government. Just take it back and run it by Mexicans. You will see the difference like day and night (it will take a while, but will get there. I promise).
Esmall.........I have often wondered
by Sasha on Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:27 AM PSTI have often wondered, "What would it take to see my country prosper?" So much corruption, so much blood spilled.............poverty
You have to realize that even without the US meddling in our countries there will always be unethical politicians. There has been a great deal of corruption in my countries' government, way before the US ever started interfering. There will always be others that will serve their own selfish interests. They are very few like my countries most beloved President Benito Juarez that grew up an indegenous Indian, illiterate and in poverty to be one of our greatest leaders.
Even in the US there have been great leaders that have worked for the interests of the people and have been assasinated for it. I am sure the same has happened in Iran and other countries.
Yes, I agree that the US has done too much meddling in other countries business. I am sure they will continue to do it. However, Iranians need to look within thier country for the solutions. If they could just see beyond their political, and religious differences then perhaps they can focus on their similar views and work together to improve the situation in Iran. Iran needs leaders that are for the people, all of the people of Iran.
solh
To: Sasha (re: I suppose it is like o:)
by Esmall (not verified) on Tue Dec 25, 2007 06:55 AM PSTSasha,
I agree that YOU see the problem to be the MEXICAN government, which ordinarily consists of mexican people. But you should understand that if that government was FREELY elected by MEXICANS, and without US's meddling, you would have a DIFFERENT MEXICO. That is to say, as long as US government pulls the strings, that is what you get, "TODAY'S MEXICO"-- corrupt, poor, etc. When that changes, and US stops its intereference in the affairs of Mexico, the same mexicans that are in missery and dispare today would be running the show (who else??) and would gradually improve the lives of other Mexicans. It was like that in 1953 before CIA coup in Iran (read the history, if you wish), and it is so elsewhere that has the mix of OIL and US intereference. I am not blaming others for our problems, I am just asking them to stop meddling in our lives. Lts us live our lives the way we wish to! This is not communist ideology, nor is it Islamist ideology, it is a human ideology!
I suppose it is like :o)
by Sasha on Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:36 PM PSTI suppose it is like some children blaming everything on their lovely, intelligent, and beloved mother. :o)
Only the US seems to have a Big Brother mentality/complex. Some of the issues with the Middle East and Mexico are partly due to US medling. However, just like the children example, self accountability has to take place. We need to be careful not to fall into the "victim" mentality. We need to get away from such thinking and become empowered to bring about change in our lives and yes, Jamshid even our universe. :o)
Esmall, the US has at times taken advantage of Mexico for the oil but no one has done more damage to Mexico than the Mexican government. I should know, I am a Mexican. Growing up every weekend my parents would take us across the border and I got to see the real Mexico.
At some point the children have to grow up and stand on their own two feet. :o)
solh
Re: Sasha
by jamshid on Mon Dec 24, 2007 06:42 PM PSTIsmall is a bit underestimating the power of the US. He thinks the problems in Iran and Mexico and other countries are US's fault. However, in my opinion, this is a huge under statement. I believe, the problems of our entire universe is the US's and Israel's fault.
I hope you are now enlightened and can "see" the secret behind the misery of all beings in the universe.
It is a simple "ideology". Blame all your shortcomings not on your own self, but on... someone else! See? Simple and compact.
To: Sasha (re: Esmall ....... you forgeot Mexico)
by Esmall (not verified) on Mon Dec 24, 2007 04:25 PM PSTSasha,
I think (but you are more in tuned) that mexico is also a victim. Do you really think the US government had no hand in the "election" of "presidents" in Mexico, or in the "appointment" of its government? I bet it did have a lot to do with it. That is how they could siphen off the Mexican oil money through their collaborators in Mexico to either US or Eurpopean banks. And that is why Mexico is soooooo poooooor. Of course I am simplifying for this comment column, but I think if you pause and think around the consequences of what those interferences in mexican government by the US has done to your people and country, you will get the point very clearly. For example, a stooge government does not care about the well-being of its people (shah did not, nor do the arabic regimes), the echelon will soon find out, the lower echelon who are the real organs of the government will very soon know that their tops don't care and are worrying about their own pockets. So the lower echelon does the same. How? Well taking bribes, not doing jobs and responsibilities that has to do with improving people's lives, etc. etc. etc.
Regards
Esmall.........you forgot Mexico
by Sasha on Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:42 AM PSTYou forgot to mention Mexico also has oil. Now, has Mexico been vicitimized by the US? Hmmm
It seems that the Mexican government has done plenty to vicitmize it's people to me. All you have to do is go through the none tourist areas and see the level of poverty.
However, you may have a different view point.
solh
PS: Glad to know you are real. Some woman actually accussed Jamshid of being you on another thread. After reading your posted comments. I think she was way of base. Well, at least she was not looney because I thought she had made you up. :o)
To; Jamshid (From Esmall)
by Esmall (not verified) on Mon Dec 24, 2007 05:49 AM PSTJamshid,
My man, don't be a child. There are 3 (THREE) reasons why Israel, Spain and South Korea were not victimized by US (although I can take exception with regards to South Koera -- if you have been there you would know that in fact socially they have been victimized -- may be not economically, but that is story for a different time. I sugest you talk to some older south koreans, they will tell you why they were victimized). Here are the THREE reasons. Are YOU ready?
1. Oil
2. Oil
3. Oil
Iran has it, those countries you named don't. Also look at others who have oil: Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, ....
Re: Rosie T.
by jamshid on Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:05 PM PSTI don't think you mischaracterized my views. My tone is due to the rightful anger that I have against the Iranian Islamists and leftists, specially when they repeat some of the lies that were used to deceive the people, including myself. It just hits a nerve.
Regarding Islam, let's separate Islam into two different categories (if it can be done).
1. Islam as in politics and government: I am against Islam being in the politics and governement in any way or form. This answers your question "why not just preach for democracy and against poltical Islam".
2. Islam as in culture and religion: Under a secular government, do I have the right to preach for Hindusm, or Zoroastrism, or agnostism, etc? The answer is YES! While I respect how moslems worship, I DO have the right to preach what I worship. It is my right to preach for an Arab free (to some extend) religion and culture in Iran. If that "offends" some moslems, that's their problem. They can counter my preaching with their own preaching, as long as neither party impose itself on the other by force.
This is my view. The problem is that while I am willing to abide by the rules stated in #2 above, many moslems (note: not all) are not willing to abide by those rules. They want to impose their version of Islam onto others (including other moslems) and surpress other none-Islamic views and religions. So then for the greater goal of a secular and free government, these moslems must be "contained", by force if necessary. There is no other way.
Re: Esmall
by jamshid on Sun Dec 23, 2007 09:32 PM PSTSo how come Israel, Spain and South Korea are not as much a victim of US than Iran and Iraq is? It MUST have something to do with its people perhaps?
You keep blaming the US. I keep warning you that WE, the people, should take responisbility as well. Then you use this to deduct that I am repeating the left over of the US propoganda by saying that Iranians are stupid. As we say in Farsi, what does a fart has to do with the temple?
I think you are a genuine imbecile. I have made a wow not to continue a dicussion once I discover that the other party is an idiot. It is just a waste of my time.
To Rosie
by Princess Asghar (not verified) on Sun Dec 23, 2007 04:46 PM PSTRsie,
You are "kheyli roodeh deraz".
Jamshid / PS Princess Ashraf
by Rosie T. on Sun Dec 23, 2007 04:17 PM PSTi'm sorry, I phrased myself wrong. It is sometimes your tone which gives the impression that you are intolerant of their worship but I do understand that you are a secular parliamentarian with all the rights of freedom of speech and worship that that entails. Perhaps what I should've said is that you should try to be more UNDERSTANDING of WHY they worship as they do. To RESPECT their right to worship rather than TOLERATE it with gritted teeth. Why? Because...
What is Islam? Well what is Christianity? Is it Martin Luther King Jr. and Bishop Paul Moore or is it Torquemada and the Inquistion andit Jerry Fallwell? Islam like all other religions is only a word. The particular hybrid beast that has taken over Iran is a modern political tool of statal control, it is totalitarian. We agree on that. I don't really see the point of wanting to preach against Islam...which is just a word...when the problem is POLITICAL ISLAM. And it's a VERY big problem.
Khatami for example. Do we really know that he would not have been for a secular form of government if he could have been? And Ebadi?
The way I think you play into these totalitarian forces is by potentially polarizing people with your tone so they become reactive, and that means reactionary...and for those who might quetion my terminology, political Islam IS reactionary although it is modern because it seeks to impose a MEDIEVAL framework on society. Why bother preaching AGAINST Islam when it will only make ordinary devout people, especially those outside Tehran (is "dehatis" the right word?) nervous, and the Shah made similar mistakes They won't HEAR you, or they'll hear only things that make them afraid...and that will make them reactionary...Why not just preach FOR democracy and against POLITICAL Islam, and leave Islam alone? It's just a word.
Once again I'm sorry if I mischaracterized your views. It's not your views, it's your tone sometimes. You know I have high regard for your views.
Robin
PS Princess Ashraf: I found out you can't access the registered users' contact unless you register yourself. But if you do register all you have to do is click on the user's name in blue and it takes you to their blogspace where there's a button that says "contact" and that goes directly to the user's e-mail address without divulging it to you. Then if they want to answer, they e-mail you back.
To: Jamshid
by Esmall (not verified) on Sun Dec 23, 2007 01:51 PM PSTJamshid
I am sorry that you seemed to have missed the point of my example (as usual). The point was not that Iranians are like a child. the point was the aggression that a "world power" can excerise and impose its will on smaller/weaker nations. I gave examples of central/south american countries (all of them like us iranians with great history, and ll of them victimized by the US government actions) and again who were victimized by the mentality of US government and its aggression. Us Iranians with Mossadegh in 1953, Chili with Alende in 1970s, etc, etc. I also agree that a nation should not blame others for ITS problems. But the two are very DIFFERENT. In a way you saying that is like you are chewing the leftover from US government's propaganda that Iranians are stupid and therefore they have a lot of problems out of their stupidity, but they blame us (that is US government) for their problems! You can see plenty of examples of that propaganda around you, IF you are smart!
Re: Rosie T.
by jamshid on Sun Dec 23, 2007 01:49 AM PSTRosie you are saying that you wish I would accept muslim's rights to worship as they choose.
I do. Why do you think that I don't? If you have read my posts in which I criticize Islam, you must had realized that I never attacked the rights of moslems to worship as they choose! Never had I made a statement to that effect.
If I had a choice, I would preach against Islam in Iran. Isn't that a natural right for all human beings? And how would that deny moslems not to worship as they choose?
The issue is that if I go to Iran and for example preach the X religion, I will be prosecuted. Moslems have the right to worship as they choose, but only those who are willing to give the same rights to others. Any moslem who does not give this right to others, in turn has forfieted the same right for himself.
For the record, as contradictory as it may sound, yes I am all for an anti-IRI alliance with the anti-IRI ayatolahs, but only with those ayatollahs who completely believe in a secular form of government, ie, separation of mosque and government. I truley believe they could make a formidable ally.
Also, I am curious to know how did I fall into the hands of reactionaries?
Re: Esmall
by jamshid on Sun Dec 23, 2007 01:17 AM PSTEsmall, your opinion proves my words. I said that we should stop blaming foreign conspirators for out ills and instead take a look at our (us Iranians) own choices.
Then you anwser me by saying that the perpetrator (USA, etc) is to be blamed, rather than the child (Iran).
Why do you see yourself, me and all the rest of us Iranians as a "child"? Why a child? For crying outloud, don't you see that this attitude is wrong? Iran is no child and we should start taking more responsiblity towards our problems rather than blaming other countries. This is the correct attitude in my opinion.
Change is inevitable (Re: Dr. Pourandokht)
by Anonym7 (not verified) on Sat Dec 22, 2007 07:43 AM PSTPourandokht says: “So let things be as it is. It is the choice of the Iranian people to have the type of system in existent.”
I am not an anti IRI person, in fact I am against those who exaggerate the problems in Iran, and advocate neocon/AIPAC’s quest of destroying Iran.
However whether you like it or not there is something in this world that does not change, and that is change itself. In fact IRI has changed substantially during past 28 years and will continue to change.
There are many social and economical issues (justice among them) in Iran that need to be identified and addressed, IRI itself at the highest level is aware that Iranians can not tolerate these (like the big rich and poor divide)forever.
So I appreciate it when Rashidian identifies justice related issue, and disagree with him when he calls IRI a ‘fascists”, and “parasite” regime and repeats Bush’s slogans.
To Rosie (Re: Royal Highness ...)
by Ashraf Pehlavi (not verified) on Sat Dec 22, 2007 06:05 AM PSTThanks for all th enice words, but there is no email address in your blog space. You need to walk me through the process (click this, click that, etc.)
Justice under god
by Dr Pourandokht Rostamian (not verified) on Sat Dec 22, 2007 01:04 AM PSTThe sort of repression described does not exist in the Islamic republic of Iran. Furthermore the people have chosen the regime. A few hundred or so Iranians living in the west opioning their views is of no importance to the Islamic justice system of Iran. As far as Canada is concerned and Vancouver in particular most Iranians are immigrants who have left their wives and children here and the husbands stay in Iran making money, visiting their families during the Novrooz holidays. My sister, Parvin enjoys Canada living in Lonsdale Avenue in North Vancouver, staying alone and enjoying herself with whomever,as and when she wants. Myself I am working as a gum specialist here in North Vancouver and enjoying myself. I go to Iran when and whereever I like. Rent from apartments is over ten thousand dollars, so nothing to worry about.
So let things be as it is. It is the choice of the Iranian people to have the type of system in existent.
Dr Pourandokht Rostamian
North vancouver, BC Canada
Actually, all should have a voice..........:o)
by Sasha on Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:06 PM PSTActually, all should have a voice to discuss their views in an objective and logical manner, without resorting to vulgar language. Iranians from every religion and political view will be needed in Iran. There is a need for unity and understanding among Iranians.
I heard the following saying as a child "together we stand and divided we fall". It is up to the Iranian community to decide what path to follow.
********************
"We live in the present, we dream of the future, and we learn eternal truths from the past."
-Madame Chiang Kai-Shek
solh
PS: Oops! I had to correct my spelling. Yes, I have writer's issues. :o)
Your royal highness...
by Rosie T. on Fri Dec 21, 2007 08:00 PM PSTActually any registered user can be directly contacted through their blogspace. There are other advantages to being registered. Registered users can track the threads they're writing on and see if there are any replies. And everything posted by them can also be tracked. You should really consider registering. Particularly for the last reason. Your eloquence with language deserves to be trackable by all far and wide.
And no I wasn't really wondering where you lived because in my heart you live right here, in Blogestaan, with me. But since you bring it up I will be on the West Coast in January. Amazing, this global village, isn't it? Peyvandestaan, we are all connected I will definitely feel connected to my three Ashrafs as my eyes gaze over the mighty Pacific....Pahlavi, Rajavi, and you...
to Rosie T
by Ashraf Pehlavi (not verified) on Fri Dec 21, 2007 07:24 PM PSTRosie,
May I have your email address to converse? You make me feel good with your sweet "nimband" Farsi words!!!
I don't libve in NYC, I live in the west in case you are wondering!
Re: extremism Anon7/Jamshid PS His-her royal highness
by Rosie T. on Fri Dec 21, 2007 07:07 PM PSTSo find the common ground.
Jamshid has repeatedly articulated that he wants a secular parliamentary democracy. Isn't that what you want too?
Find the common ground.
It's true Jamshid. Sometimes you play into the hand of the most reactionary forces, or polarize others into them. But I know that's not what you want. I KNOW that's not what you mean to do.
Ashraf, I won't flag that one for deletion. I'll leave it as a testament to your sewer mouth. Queen of the Toilet Bowl, that is you. An utter discredit to the "left"--"my" camp.
Now...call me a Zionist agent, and a "jendeh kos" and...then...flush...
Jamshid a Monarchist?????
by Ashraf Pehlavi (not verified) on Fri Dec 21, 2007 06:50 PM PSTThis fellow Jamshid seems to be a monarchist. These people should not be taken seriously, no matter what they say. What do you expect from someone whose shit and brain are mixed, and their god and creationist is "Shahanshah Aryagoooooooz"?
extremism (Re: Jamshid)
by Anonym7 (not verified) on Fri Dec 21, 2007 06:46 PM PSTJamshid says: "Many of the pro-IRI assholes in this site are living in the US while bragging about life in Iran."
And a**hole extremists like you in the other end of the spectrum are siding with the most reactionary forces that can devastate the whole country.
Every day I find it hard to live with myself...
by Rosie T. on Fri Dec 21, 2007 05:58 PM PSTin a country which with 25% of the world's population consumes 75% of the world's resources and then blocks all UN attempts to implement antidotes through the Kyoto Accords to the environmental destruction caused, A country which each of its citizens disposes of a mountain of garbage the size of the Statue of Liberty each year. A country which hired former Nazis to train the torturers of Latin America in the School of the Americas in sunshiney Florida. A country which rains bombs down on innocent children while depriving its own children of a decent education. And I know this better than anyone. I teach COLLEGE remedial writing classes at a public university. My AMERICAN-BORN inner city reading students this semester did not know the meaning of these words: apparatus, mesh, demonstration (as in a politcal one), contrary, intend, etc. They didn't know what a PATRIOT was. One student who happens to read Rupert Murdoch's New York Post for the sports news said "Isn't a patriot someone who likes war?"
I don't care much about semantics, fascism vs. totalariansm, whatever. Human rights violations are human rights violations and the deliberate depriving of American youth of an education to think for themselves so that they will be stupid enough to fight these Imperialistic wars (and then have to make medical co-payments if they lose a limb doing so), and then be shot at with orders to kill if there is a disaster such as New Orleans and they try to get already rotting bread to feed their families is a human rights violation. I don't care what the proper semantic term is.
Nevertheless, Jamshid has a point and it's a REALLY important one. INDIVIDUALS STILL HAVE FREE CHOICE AND FREE WILL. My yoga teacher used to tell us, "I cannot tell you what freedom is but I can tell you what freedom is not. Freedom is NOT the ability to do what you want." It is the ability to do what is RIGHT within the available parameters.
I am on the "soft left" so it is very enticing for me to want to apologize chronically for the ills inflicted by my own country on the developing world but if I continually do so I am patronizing those countries and taking away their potential autonomy and agency. I am blighting their future by saying they can do no better.
I see this in the microcosm every day when I teach. I am VERY hard on my students, The white middle class liberals who are my colleages and supervisors freak out about it, they want me to LOWER my expectations and STOP telling the truth about New Orleans and Iraq. My colleagues who side with me are black: black American, black Caribbean and black African. They want our students to take RESPONSIBILITY for their lives. My students are lazy, apathetic and manipulative. I tell my students they want to benefit from this decadent system by working its very failures to their own advantage to get degrees they don't deserve instead of RAISING their standards and fighting and CHANGING the system. Sometimes they HATE me and I tell them, go get a dartboard and put my face on it, make a voodoo doll of me and stick pins in me, I don't care, but DO BETTER THAN THIS SYSTEM.
And I'm sorry, they have AGENCY, they have POTENTIAL, they have INDIVIDUAL CHOICE and they CAN do better and my black colleagues ALWAYS side with me. And I want the SAME THING for Iran. ONE MILLION PEOPLE met Khomeini at the airport. Now people say his agenda was not known! He was mysogenistic, homophobic and MEDIEVAL to the core. He openly declared it from France and from Iraq.
Who were these ONE MILLION PEOPLE and who put a gun to their head and made them cheer this man at the airport? I have said over and over again that I am an Eastern European non-Zionist Jew. I would not willingy have met George Bush at an airport, or Imam Khomeini, or Pinochet or Milosevic. I would rather die.
I don't BLAME those people for what they did, because we all have to forgive and find a new way and move on. But I WON'T patronize them by saying they were simply manipulated. ESPECIALLY not the intellectuals among them. Because I BELIEVE in these people. I believe in their AGENCY. The Iranian people MUST assume responsibility for their fate, both past and future, regardless of WHAT foreign interventions happened. Their past and their future belong to THEM. To say it belongs to Kermit Roosevelt is to violate their potential.
At the same time, Jammy, I REALLY wish you would accept Muslims' right to worship as they choose. Many ordinary people simply require a framework, a dogma, for age-old spiritual strivings which are now being more CORROBORATED than disproven, by scientists. Any religion is what any practioner makes of it. Those same people who met Khomeini at the airport also voted in Khatami when he was a NOBODY. They are inherently theo- but they are NOT inherently fascistic and you HAVE to have more faith in them. You HAVE to. Otherwise you polarize them, and the rift gets wider and wider...it becomes a gaping wound that will NEVER be healed...
I was so happy when you finally said that the Mullahs who are AGAINST the IRI system are your allies. They ARE. PLEASE never lose sight of this again, and extend it to ordinary, decent Muslims. They're just ordinary people...and they need intellectuals like you to UNDERSTAND them and GUIDE them, not to drive them into the hands of totalitarians.
Re: Islamo-Fascism
by Anonymous1 (not verified) on Fri Dec 21, 2007 05:32 PM PSTSuit yourself!
The point is the criminal penal code of the Islamo-barbaric thugs ruling Iran. No other country has anything like it.