HOMOSEXUALITY

As far as I am concerned,

As far as I am concerned, two consenting adults may do what ever they want to each other. As long as, I do not necessarily have to know about it. On the other hand, it is a crime (statutory rape) when the profit has a nine years old wife. Why don’t you wonder what God and Darwin say about that.

to Tinush...

You make lots of assertions and assumptions that are all subject to verification and debate. How do I know such and such animal exist as you claim and rest. all I know is that:
If you ask me both religion and homsexuality are a disease! Ofcourse the question of environment or gene applies to both equally.Religion however is a kind of mass delusion while homosexuality is just bad taste to say the least. Human organs obviously have specific porpuses!!

If I try to eat via my nostrils it would not be such a smart or clean idea! Same goes for guy life style! YuCK...! How could they do it! It's just dirty business...as we say in farsi "Sorakh ra gom kardan" leterally!

it's not that simple...

Sexuality is not that simple. There is no single 'sexuality gene.' Sexual preference is the sum of many factors, including genes and environment. Think of it as a scale (tarazu). Your genes set the scale with a particular bias. Your environment and experiences adjust the scale one way or another. That in itself is enough to keep the genes related to homosexuality from being eliminated.

You're equating heterosexuality with reproduction,
and that is not so. They are linked but not equal. Inversely,
homosexuality and non-reproductivity may also be linked, but they
certainly are not equal.

In addition, there are at least two ways that non-reproductivity (and by extension homosexuality) imparts benefits to the species as a whole, not individuals. First, is through bonding, and this has been observed in social animals that live in troupes, such as many species of monkeys. The males live in individual groups or gangs. They hunt, defend their territory, and search for female mates, TOGETHER. They also engage in homosexual behavior, which is thought to strengthen the cohesiveness of the group.

Second, there is the benefit drawn from non-reproductive members. Again, this is seen in species where one member is reproductive, but the entire group helps in raising the children. The non-reproductive members contribute to the whole species, but gain little individually. When the reproductive members are eliminated, one of the non-reproductive members take over.

Also keep in mind that sexuality is older than humans! And in many species, male and female is not necessarily the norm. In fact, there are quiet a number of species that are female and hermaphrodite. Some lobsters, are male when they are young, and become female when they are old. Some fish will spontaneously switch sex if the male-female balance of their local group is disturbed. And, there are species of lizards that are all female, no males; yet, they go through a mating dance in order to self-fertilize their eggs.

And, last but not least, it doesn't realy matter whether it's nature or nurture. People should be free to be who they want to be. Some may consider religion to be a disease! And, one might be able to argue that there are genetic basis that determine if one is inclined to be religious. Should we treat religion as an infectious disease acquired from the environment and look for ways of zapping it out of people? The same argument can be made about secularism!

Enlighten Me

Why don't you post a couple of points that you got out of those?

mehdi

There is more to evolution than you think.
Read the book:

"Darwin's dangerous idea" by Danniel Dennet.
Books by Richard Dawkins are good too.
best...

Preference???

I am curious, can we also use the same logic and say that pedophiles are also OK because they simply have a different preference in sexual partner? What do you think? Or maybe their genes are built that way, so why should we punish them or take away their rights?

My uncle's story

My uncle has been a very respected professor in University of Esfahan for over 50 years. He is muslim but not closed minded. I remember during the revolution he told us the story of he walking into a room in a seminary (I think it was Madrese Shekh Bahaii). As soon as he opened the door, he saw two religous studens naked, having sex.

Considering all the violent abuse and cultural attacks that the homosexuals have received from almost every religion in every corner of the world, it's very hard for me to imagine anyone "choosing" to be a homosexual or allowing their "environment" to cause them to be so.

Regardless, in time science will answer that question.

However, what's more relevant is whether non-homosexuals have the right to persecute homosexuals...in my humble opinion, the answer is an obvious NO...Live and let live.

I can't imagine a God, albeit one that announces his biggest attributes to be "Rahman and Rahim" to expect us to persecute and kill such people for the desires that are clearly beyond their control.

Let's practice the golden rule and "treat others the way we want to be treated"...and please, if we Iranians want to be treated as a civilized, rich-cultured society, which we are, let's stay away from name calling and use of vulgar language. It just negates any good point that you may have. Thank you.

Intelligent Design vs. Evolution

I am not sure why some people think that the discovery of the steps of evolution goes against the idea of intelligent design. Darwin, as I understand it, simply discovered that life forms had not been always the way they are now. Originally we didn't have human form or dog or cat, etc. It started with a monocell and gradually became more sophisticated. I don't know why this would be contrary to intelligent design. Darwin mentioned "natural selection" but he never really elaborated on that. Some take that phrase to mean "accidental" or some sort of unintelligent trial and error. But I have a hard time seeing how there could be a "selection" without intelligence. The idea of "selecting" or deciding between two or more choices requires intellilgence and awareness - a quality that does not exist in physical objects or energy. So there has to have been some other factor involved. Maybe it was or wasn't the God of Judaism, Christianity or Islam (practically identical definitions) but that doesn't mean there was no intelligence involved. In some other religions, namely gnostic religions, there is the hint that human beings are actually a higher level entity "trapped" or "stuck" in a physical form. Such religions suggest that there are higher levels of existence available for mankind, and that these levels can be attained. Some even provide ways to reach such higher levels (such as many forms of meditation). We can see for example that some of these people in India can exert an incredible amount of control over their bodies. They can, for example,  live on one almond a day or sleep on beds of nails, etc. We have also seen our own Sufis sometimes performing incredible tasks such as sticking a nail into different parts of their bodies with practically no bleeding - which the doctors have no real explanation for. But to me, these point to the fact that humans, and possibly other life forms are not a simple organism and there is a component within them that is intelligent and aware, and one which "has been given" the task of finding their way back to their native higher state. This component could be considered the intelligence behind the progress of evolution. It seems as if the spirit is trying to get to a higher state, partly by designing a more appropriate physical vehicle (body). From the monocell to human body, we seem to have accomplished a lot! There is evidently more distance to travel though.  

What?

I have no idea what you are trying to say?

what is the rung with are? so much freedom ?

you thinks you are going to fuck the another's man from where all shit came out and then you sucks all this dirt and ......what is the rung with are human

Great point, well said. I

Great point, well said. I agree with you 100%, homosexuality is a creation of one's environment and personal desires and choices. The point about the gene pool and the fact that the trait would automatically eliminate itself if that were true is indeed an excellent point.

Preference

Some people and animals (man is an animal too) prefer same sex sex. Simple. If liking recreational sex doesn't make you a bad person, liking same sex sex doesn't either. The discrimination against people for liking same sex sex is however VERY BAD. Revelations against the concept of allowing same sex sex, which threatens the proposition of the holy male female family trinity, from various books by men plagiarizing each other, proclaiming some sort of secret connection to a strangely absent God that has even once to make his presence known at his own hand, is a bit far to go to make this thinly veiled claim of nature losing out to nurture. Disenchanted? Sounds like you meant to take the name Spurned. You're only trying to intellectualize your opposition to what is ultimately (genetic or not)a socialized choice. Don't make the option of same sex sex sound bad by making it from an evolutionary point of view. Same sex sex (for those who like it) is not bad, evil, or a sin. Same sex sex is however and in fact, entirely possible if optional!

But you did not go all the way

Are homo's the same as koonis? Are Koonis childmolesters ? Are Homos more respectable than koonis
just because they are farangi? Do we have homos or koonis
in Iran?

Why is this stupid label such an issue for so many people...

Just like your skin color, hair color, texture of hair and skin and traits that one inherits, the sexual desires of a person are also inherited from the genetic pool of that person's parents.

Its not just ONE gene that infeluenecs the sexual desires of a person, its a network of genes that are passed on from parents and yes "god damn it" its ALWAYS passed on from the hetrosexual behavior of procreation which results in these genes being passed on and various genetic combinations can be result in no or dormant sam sex desire or can result in hetro, bi or same sex sexual desires.

Its society that has used these fucking labels to define narrowly the vast and diverse extent of human desires. This is your "environmental factor" right here. If society did not have the stigma that it places on bi and same sex behavior, more people would openly act out there desires,m but yes to reproduce, they would have to only have sex with a member of the opposite sex...

Look at the animal world, you always see same sex behavior in dogs, cats and other animals as well. Its not just a gene you can turn on or off...
Fahmidi korreh khar,
Now go fuck yourself...
Boro Bemir

Highly intelligent

Highly intelligent observation. Be prepared though for a barrage of hateful comments and insults. Regardless of where your particular prejudice may lie the point made is highly valid and intelligently made.