POST-REVOLUTION

1. Just because you and I go

1. Just because you and I go to demonstrations doesn’t mean our generation does. This generation doesn’t do much. Even demonstrations need follow up action we are too busy to do.
2. Many Iranian children out of Iran have trouble with Farsi. This is not unique to USA.
3. Denmark or Netherland have media and corporate issues unique to them. Check out anti arab sentiments in French TV or other European media. Remember the cartoons that shocked the Muslim world? All modern societies are plagued by the same diseases: racism, nationalism and religion. Don’t think Europe is different than any other place. Anti war demonstrations were EVERY WHERE in the US and Canada. Not just Europe. People were and are opposed to the war in many many places around the world. Media coverage is never honest about this, no matter where you live.
4. Dude, you’re bored right?! Go read the original response. It’s not about you. Or me. It’s a generalization about a generation well defined in the opening paragraphs. But I can see how you would squeeze yourself in it, we are self centered :) Media like this site is MASS media. It is a generalization. It is understood I am referring to most people not every individual.
5. Modern thought is not just white thought. Iran can be modern on its own terms. Liberalism can be defined within the confines of the walls of my house. I don’t need you to tell me what works in your house. I can use it to get inspired and learn but I have to come up with my stuff.
6. “Iran lacks the cultural push to shove it into the right way, the west, has had 200 years now with writers, politicians and intellectuals who have made it possible” Give me some of the good stuff you’re smoking. I’m bored too. You are right. Iran hasn’t had any modern thinkers in the past 200 years. And our culture does need a push toward whatever you want.
7. This isn’t about arguments and open dialogue with Iranians. We are masters at debate. I am talking about differences about 2 very well defined groups of people. In my generation, in action is the action.
8. This isn’t about you. This is about a general comparison of most people in a group.
9. Wait for my next response, I’m running a spell check, I have to go back to work.

The second bored Iranian dude but the original responder

RE: The copycat bored iranian dude!!

Hey you fake bored iranian dude!!, No not at all, thanks for your long reply, yes I agree with your points but your not getting me right on the key issues. Ive written them with numbers so that its easier for you to reply :), sorry for the typos, Im eating lunch! 1. yes well if you participate in demonstrations like you said, if you write letters to newspapers, if you talk to politicans and your local representatives and attend anti war meetings and such, then YOU ARE doing alot. You are not part of the generation that does "nothing". Ive met "iranians" who do "nothing", you have also, and thats what they do, "nothing". And no Im not making stuff up, many modern iranian youth in the west that I met in LA sometimes didnt even want to speak farsi beacause it made them feel uncomfortable. Its not european "arrogance", its plain systematic view of how information is distributed, how neutral the media coverage is. For example, turn on the news in say Denmark or Netherland, you wont be hearing this every 20 second: IRAN WANTS NUKES, IRAN SPONSORS TERROR, IRAN EATS LITTLE CHILDREN as it does in the US. If you fail to see the difference on how information is spread in the US compared to the EU and imagine what the result of that would be in thought control, I dont know what else I can say to convince you other than to say that you should look at how the anti war sentiment differed between the EU and the US before the Iraq war, why do you think? I do agree that Im a part of that/your generation, but Im not one of those who do "Nothing", dont insult me. Shure Im not desperate as the later generation were, I dont run hungry and ride a donkey to "Sharestan", but my stomach twists inside when I hear that my cousin got slapped because she wore her hijab 2 cm short on her head, and that in itself forces me to think that one should do the most to return and help, or everytime I hear that the Ruskis, the chinese and westerners can decide the faith of the land of my ancestors in private meetings, I want to throw up. Maybe you dont have such thoughts, and if not, hey congratulation. I wish I could relax like that but I cant 2. Yes Ive read alot of history about Iran, and I still believe that alot of modern thoughts of liberalism and true individual freedom has yet to be properly introduced into the country were the west has done huge breakthrough. Everytime I say this about politics or science, iranians get offended and start talking about Irans history and such and how far more advanced we "really" are to the west which is nonsense. Baradar, Its not meant as an offence, but it is true, Iran lacks the cultural push to shove it into the right way, the west, has had 200 years now with writers, politicians and intellectuals who have made it possible for rast vah chap to sit together and debate politics without resorting to executions adn violence. Iranians have never had this, they squandered away their chances for having it or our leaders sold out to foreign imperial powers (and to this day, iranians still blame one country after another for their own errors). First step is to get down from this arrogant horse we ride were we answer such comments with "Oh we did that long time ago" and "Ahh well you based those theories on what we said" The west has evolved far beyond what Iran ever has, and instead of being proud, accept failure and treat the problem by learning 3. I believe that iranians abroad should gather together, much more than what they have, help for change in Iran and then, NO MATTER WHAT GENERATION, yes, move back with reinvesting the money we have gotten in the west, back into iranian economy, and use what we have learned here, our companies etc back home in Iran. FOr example, insted of paying for a 25 million dollar spacce flight like ansari did, why not use that money to fund student/right movements, orphanages, cultural centers. My point is that the exodus of a failed state should always learn from the victorious states and try to bring these conditions/riches back to Iran for change, not to realx and lavish in their own new found luxury that their own families cant enjoy in Iran. Thats not to say that Im telling you/our generation to quit school and run back to Iran, no Im saying, and my point is that one should use this situation of "comfort" in the west as you describe our generation here has, to work hard and to ask oneself how can I help my country in the future 4. Well we are not italian or irish are we now, we are Iranian and comparing that times demographics with today when you have modern travel aid available, relocating and travelling is so easy that your comparison of these groups moving to the US so far ago is completly wrong. I wouldnt deem it as unrealistic of Iranians moving back in masses if we had an open liberal society in Iran today 5. Yes I could go back to Iran tomorrow, shure, yes I can walk with my cousin down Tabriz Uni and protest and throw rocks, but like she told me herself, better you finish your education, think and grow rich, and come back home to help the country when you have money in your pocket and can gain influence with others. That is my point with my previous post. I will go back one day, be it with the IRI or without, and try to help the movements as much as I can, I have my own ideas, maybe you have yours, but Il do my best. I/You/We owe our ancestors that much.

Thanks! I don't know

you either but the thanks is for you. :o)

I think that your generation has many MLK in action at this moment even in the US. There are Iranian activists through out the world working tirelessly to bring about change even risking their own lives if necessary. They are from your generation.

Yes, there are some that do nothing and are self absorbed but there are still some that are not.

Even the writer of this article is doing his part in publishing his article here. Trying to bring awareness to certain issues. Every little bit helps.

solh va doosti

Nadia

To Nadia

Great quote.
But it's a slogan. Coming from a man who had his hands in the business of the civil rights movement, it has meaning. Comeing from us (I don't know you - this is a general us), it is poetry. A slogan. My generation revers MLK but it remains to be seen wether it will produce any!

Bored Iranian Dude, You are one of us

Dear Bored Iranian Dude:
I hope you are not insulted by this response.
“You have gathered petitions, worked with the local amnesty international cases within Iran”
This is great. Were you writing letters or more? The issue is that my generation loves to debate and to talk and to plan and all that is fantastic and necessary. But there is no action. No real action. Because there is no need for it. We live in the west and we debate about issues that are in the east and don’t touch us every day on our way to work.
“if one day the chance for change is there, I could return and participate”
Ms Kaviani’s generation created the chance for change. Yes, a revolution doesn’t occur in a vacuum and there were many other factors that created an atmosphere that was ripe for change. Perhaps those conditions are non existent today. But, her generation was involved on a day to day basis. We wait for a chance…we wait for a change. We don’t get our hands dirty.
Now, why haven’t you returned? This is not a question to get you defensive. I am interested. I can bet you will not return. This is ok. I will not return permanently and I’m not ashamed to say it. Why should I? I am happy where I am. Just like you, if someone did all the work for me, I would go and help in some way. Maybe I will be old enough and I could teach part time at a college. If there is real change, I will support it by going to demonstrations here and then going for chelo kabab after. I am game! I want to help. But I’m not desperate and I don’t need hope and I don’t have to work for any of the change. It is terrible to say but Ms. Kaviani’s generation was thirsty and desperate. We are not. Obviously I am generalizing. We have every day problems too but not on a national scale.
“and introduce western thinking into Iran”
You say you love to read about your history. I suggest you watch the movie The Hidden Half we Niki Karimi. There is a nice scene where the male protagonist speaks about theories developed in the west versus Iranian history.
Why must western thinking be introduced to Iran? Do you know your history hamvatan? Western civilization is based on the work of our ancestors. Is western thought the only way to salvation? But that’s a different topic. I understand what you mean to say. What counts here is that we think that if we use a pre packaged western “thing” that we didn’t work for, we can fix the problem. Instead of going and living with the problem. Instead of figuring out what practical solutions could work. That’s my generation. We cannot wait. We want instant gratification.
“That is the "exodus" goal of being in the west, to gather wealth, knowledge and power, then go back and use this to change Iran for the better”
Well who is going back with all the knowledge? Ms Kaviani’s generation? Certainly not. In youth they did all they thought they could do (with mixed results) and now they are comfortable and reaching retirement. Are you referring to my generation? We are just getting into having families and moving up at work. Do you mean we need to wait another 30 years for my generation to gather wealth and knowledge and then go back? Are you serious? That is totally absurd. No one is going back and no one will. Not in the scale that is needed.
Immigration patterns don’t support your idea. The Irish, Italian and so on never went back, and they didn’t have a death sentence to deal with.
“ So I agree with one poster writing that dont judge your entire generation”
There is no judgment here, just observation. My generation will achieve something too. There is time. We might realize what power we have in our hands and finally be grateful that we were able to skip a few steps because of our parents’ help. But as it stands, there is no comparison between these 2 generations. I would even go as far as saying that the youth in Iran is much more involved than my generation here.
“I have a scary feeling that this is typical for Iranians in the US rather than in Europe”
Iranians are pretty much the same every where. Just people. Your insinuation here smells of European superiority.
“I expect that politics are broadly debated in Europe rather than in the US where everything is forcefed to the population by a nasty corporate media”
If this is what you really believe than you are definitely part of my generation. Totally misinformed, judgmental and bored :). There is a lot of debate in the US in various forums. And corporations are very active all over the world. This view that there is no culture or information in the US is very bogus.
“Not to mention that the iranians Ive talked to at my age from the US had no idea of the middle east conflict”
Most Iranians are very well informed. It starts at a very young age.
“ could not point Iran on the map”
Now I know you are exaggerating in order to make your point!
“honestly say that you should stop referring to your self as "Iranian american" and just call yourself american and get it over with.”
Firstly, I don’t refer to myself as Iranian American. Don’t label me. Secondly, why stereotype Americans?
Let me clarify that “my generation” was defined very clearly in the article above. It doesn’t include EVERYONE in my age group. Also, it is understood that Ms Kaviani and the author are generalizing. No one can ever include an entire population into “we”. It is assumed that the intelligent reader such as you understands this.
The issue is not just political. It is demographic and socio economic. Ms Kaviani’s generation worked against economic and cultural barriers that we cannot even begin to understand today. Many people in her generation moved from Shahrestan to big cities. Many had to go to university for the first time. Many had to learn about religion in a new way. And so on. We don’t have any of those issues. My generation doesn’t have to work hard to get a loan to go to school. My generation doesn’t have to meet secretly at night to discuss politics.

Very nice

Thanks, I really enjoyed reading this piece. nicely done.

just be yourself, speak the

just be yourself, speak the truth. never let anyone put you down, dont act like the amerikoni kids and be absolutely proud of Iran and all Iranians.

I am with you

Absolutely agree. Very nice and I share you thoughts in this matter. Thanks

MLK........

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

                     -Martin Luther King Jr.

Nice

Thank you for your really interesting article. I totally get you and wish you the best.

We we we

Im a middle class kid in the west, Ive gathered petitions, worked with the local amnesty international cases within Iran, I try to read and learn as much of our history as possible so that if one day the chance for change is there, I could return and participate in a new political process and introduce western thinking into Iran. That is the "exodus" goal of being in the west, to gather wealth, knowledge and power, then go back and use this to change Iran for the better. So I agree with one poster writing that dont judge your entire generation. BUT, I have a scary feeling that this is typical for Iranians in the US rather than in Europe, I expect that politics are broadly debated in Europe rather than in the US where everything is forcefed to the population by a nasty corporate media. Not to mention that the iranians Ive talked to at my age from the US had no idea of the middle east conflict, could not point Iran on the map and had no broader understanding of how Iran works politically. When it goes that far, I would honestly say that you should stop referring to your self as "Iranian american" and just call yourself american and get it over with.

The c'est la vie segment

Concise, to the point piece of writing and yet quiet disingenuous where one to surmise that often cited pronoun “we” is all encompassing and applies to Iranians alone. True, majority of the second and third generation hyphenated Iranians are as self absorbed as the majority of their peers elsewhere, even in Iran. But that too was the case in Iran before the beautification program of thirty years ago. Agitating for the betterment of compatriots is not the trait of majority amoral/ c'est la vie segment of any society. Only few dare to rise above the natural survival and greed based instincts and think and act for the good of others. As wrong as they might be in their chosen path, assuming they are genuine in their altruistic goals, they are the few that the majority’s moral salvation is depended upon.

What is with the "We"?

Dude:

 It's a nicely written piece.  But please do not use "we" when talking about yourself and maybe a dozen or so of your Narcosit buddies!

 Just becuase you are dumb and don't care, it doesn't mean that everyone else in your generation is an idiot!

 Private Pilot

grumblings

i hear some grumblings..i don't know if i have to burp or fart. whatever it is, this vaginal poetry was quite inspiring.

Excellent, to the point and

Excellent, to the point and honest article.
Zendeh Bad.

Nicely written......

It was good to see a different view point on the issue.

solh va doosti

Nadia

"Honesty" is another

"Honesty" is another characteristic of people of your generation. I enjoyed your article very much.