RELATIONSHIPS

yourfriend....

man, you are absollutely correct. a perfect statement. you must be in a wonderful relationship... lucky you!

on a separate note...

LADIES!!!!!!!!! check out Payame on the personals. is he not the most gorgeous thing you've ever seen??
just one of the things we iranians do well...lol

Parthian

* From the fairy tale in which a princess reluctantly befriends a frog who magically transforms into a handsome prince after she kisses him.

Now if you have an issue with fairy tales being sexist, by all means join the club!

why do you sound so angry?

IRANdokht

Frogs??

Imagine if a man start a blog: "kissing all the chickies". I can see in her writing why the author, and her friends have lots of relationship problems. They suffer from what most other Iranian girls/women suffer from in the west and especially United States. They suffer from PAPS: Persian-American Princess Syndrome.

Most these women/girls (not all)  have confused equality and freedom with having unrealistic expectations. One of the best lines about women was narrated by Jack Nicholson in the movie As Good As It Gets. The publishing company's secrtary asked Jack's character who was an author suffering OCD, "How do you write women so well?", He responded: " I take a man, take away his rationality, and accountability." That pretty much sums up lots of the Iranian girls and women I have met. Daddy is been treating them like princess, and they expect their husbands to do the same. Yes there are those occasional husbands who are more like pet shihtzu than a human being, but you can expect to find those at every corner.

Now, here are some reality for these ladies that if they accept, they will have easier time with men.

-I am all for equality, and equal treatment, but equal means exactly that "EQUAL". That means if a man does not open the door for you, you better chill until the next episode.

-Along that same long, you better go the next date expecting dutch, that is right ladies, open those purses. You all are all professionals now, don't expect the guy to buy your dinner and movie ticket on the first, second or even third date. Just as you are making an investment, the guy is too, and that investment should be done when you know there is going to be some ROI (Return on Investment).

-If you are 5'2", 140 pounds, a couch potato, and want and waiting a tall, dark, handsome 6'1" dude with muscles, who drives a Mercedes, is an MD, with lots of stocks, who by the way is gone sacrifice himself for you because of his "true" love, not to mention he is funny like seinfeld, than you are not just from Venus, you probably live on Pluto. Stay there, there is no such guy.

-See above: If you call the guy described above as the "one". Get on Virgin's next space shuttle to Pluto, and hang out with that 5'2", 140 pound chik. You don't belong on earth.

-See above: if you mention the word "the one" repeatedly, and expect this, you are too immature to be talking about love because you just don't understand it, again good luck being miserable.

-Don't treat your men like slave. He is a human being (of course your men should treat you well, and equal). Give him a day off once in a while, believe me, he needs it. He will miss you. If you want to control his every action, or change him, see my first bullet point above, get a pet, not a cat, but a dog. By the way,  you have control/princess issue, work on it.

Now go out and hunt those frogs, accept them for who they are, and don't try these fairy tale bullshit. Not even your best kiss is going to change him, just accept him, or leave him be. There is no such thing as "one" on a planet of 7 billion people.

Thank you

Thank you all again for participating in the discussion in my humble post. I have read and re-read everything. I am honored to receive such civility and compassion from all of you in a discussion that is important to me. I am also particularly impressed to see respected users and bloggers here, each bringing his or her own wisdom along. It means a lot to me. Please all come back and shed some light on our modern day miseries! Stories and experiences are welcome, too.

Dear Ajab Rajab

1. You are right. There are always at least two sides to a story.

2. Maybe some of my beliefs and values are shifting these days, but even in my confusion I still do believe, as you say, that a truly good relationship, one which enjoys love, trust, and respect is worth all the trouble it takes to find it and then to stay in it. I believe such a reationship to be a gift incomparable in worth and importance to much else in life.

Please come back and join the discussions to come. I'm sure you can add value and depth to the dialogue.

Dear Your Friend

Don't worry, you do make a lot of sense. I have come to the same conclusion, albeit kicking and screaming! You are so right. Walking into a brand new phase of life has meant a lot of soul searching, a lot of confusion, and a lot of questions for me, as I'm sure it would to anyone else in the same situation. Who I am, what I like, and what I want are all questions going through my mind all the time. The progress has been millimetric, I'm sad to report! So far I only know what I don't want! About that, at least, I'm clear in my mind.

As I tell you about the things people have been telling me, you will agree that I am not alone. This is a world that needs to be learned from scratch, it seems, where most of my previous points of knoweldge and confidence are challenged and questioned and all too often, erased. I am learning in very painful and haphazard ways, but I am learning.

Thank you for your thoughtful contribution. Please come back and teach me some more.

Give all or give up?

Nazy you say "I was the one giving all in a relationship."

Assuming your ex agrees with you that you were "the one" giving all; the question is was it needed?!

If your ex doesn't agree with you that is another story.

Sometimes we checkmate ourselves and think that we should either give it all to satisfy his/her "need" or our own "need" and since usually whoever "gives all" doesn't "get all" in response we feel there is no balance and in response we ask "is it even worthed?"

If you give all and get all it is worthed, if you give little and get little it is still worthed. If you give all and think it MUST be worthed which "part" IS not worthed?

If you're going to say the headache, the heartache remember anything worthed comes with headache or heartache but in the end nothing is worthed!

Dear Nazy: Success or

Dear Nazy: Success or failure of relationship, to a large extent, depends on one's EXPECTATIONS (most often unrealistic) of a relationship; in other words, what is one's desired outcome and how one defines love and successful relationship. In most cases, we go into a relationship because of certain needs and expectations. If those needs/standards are not met/fulfilled, then the internal conflicts followed by external ones manifest themselves in one form or another.

For a relationship to be successful, one needs to be highly aware of one's self, which is process only attainable in the context of being in relationship or what social psychologist call it "Social Context". You can't know yourself, including what you desire and what you don't desire or what you should desire until you kiss a few frogs.

Once you gather enough data about your wants and needs (your rational expectations eliminating the irrational ones), then you can customize your criteria for your selection process. Note, through this process, you might conclude that you don't really need a traditional relationship.

I hope I making sense...lol

Dear bajenagh-e naghi

(I hope everyone forgives me for replying to comments in a haphazard way.)

I understand and relate to your formula very well. I don't understand why you say it is a utopian thing, though! I mean I don't want to understand it, because it is such a heart-breaker! I was the one giving all in a relationship. When it failed I thought it was because we had never been a good match. "Not a good match" means that the search could go on if need be! If what you suggest can only happen in a utopian state, and with our world being so very far from utopia, maybe those who suggest the search must be called off are right! Why go through all the trouble and heartache? I'm adding your words to my work!

I went on a lunch date a

I went on a lunch date a couple of weeks ago. I had met the guy about a year earlier. Sparks were flying.. We attempted to see eachother again, but our travel schedules got in the way and we lost touch...

Anyway, so when he contacted me about a year later, I decided to give it a chance.. We were sipping on iced teas at the bar while waiting for our table, when he apologized for not getting in touch again after his travels... No big deal, I said... He said the reason why he hadn't been in touch, is because he is married, with children!

I finished my iced tea, then left.

Nazy Jan , great questios.

I believe the  question  of "what makes us happy?" is the cardinal one. The one that embraces the rest and provides the answer to  the other questions.

My personal experiences and observing the experiences of my friends and relatives and co workers and the list goes on and on, has made me to believe that our happiness has to come from inside. None of the outside causes can bring or guarantee happiness. I have seen two people in almost same situation one terribly miserable the other very content and happy.

How many times we long for something and someone , and think that would be the elixir of happiness, and later on we realize this was the kiss of misery and death!

Of course my opinion is colored by my faith and personal belief but it has been consolidated by my personal experiences in life.

As much as we need to satisfy our basic needs , including need for intimacy and sexual satisfaction ,but mere fulfillment of them does not guarantee happiness and sense of contentment. I enjoy good sex as much as the next healthy person but that is not the ultimate goal of our higher being.

I believe we are not on this planet to be totally happy and fulfilled, rather we are here to become complete and in this process we have to endure pain and not so pleasant experiences. Just like  the process of making a precious diamond out of a piece of stone , which has the potential to be that brilliant diamond.

Through out the process we have to remember the diamond we want to be, not why we are experiencing the disappointments and lack of this or that , which are mostly materialistic gains, or desires.

I like to thank you Nazy jan, for this thought provoking article.

Most tender regards,

Tahirih

nazy jan

i have a theory about a perfect relationship and yes it is only a theory in that it looks great on paper but it does not hold water in real life. it is a utopian thing that does not exist in reality but like all the other things that are not reachable, this too, is very attractive. it is very simple really...all it says is that in a relationship instead of wanting, needing or demanding to receive from your partner, you ought to want, need, and even demand to give to him or her all you can to satisfy his or her needs . if both partners did this, then the perfect relationship and all its positive and desired manifestations are achieved. unfortunately in real life, once a partner sees that he is given all the time, he gets a big head and sees all that is given to him as entitlement and will soon demand even more. now that is a real shame, isn't it? 

The pope, most men's love flower wither!!!!

When they see that there is an opportunity to have a brand new flower !!!! I bet that's what happens.

It begs another question .....

Thought provoking words! And maybe we have all asked ourselves these questions at one time or another in our lives. And leads me to ask another question ..... what is a successful relationship anyway???

But first. Yes I think we are more likely to be more content with our lives if we have a good enduring relationship. Being alone is not natural for the majority of us and for those who choose a solitary life, there is usually some hurt behind that decision.

Kissing lots of frogs! Not necessary. Think quality not quantity.  I think we have to know ourselves and what will work for us. Have some criteria or well thought through wish list is one way to go about it that avoids the kissing so many frogs.

The mistake so many people make is having found their perfect partner, they begin to rely on that person to create their happiness and thats an impossible responsibility to place upon someone elses shoulders  because we are all prone to error and have our own moods, issues and budens to manage.

Relationships are hard work! Even good relationships. We dont think they should be but they are without doubt.

What is a successful relationship .... one that works for us and what are the ingredients for a successful relationship ? I wish I knew the answer to that ... I'd be a wealthy woman. And I guess different strokes for different folks. My observations lead me to think that compromise, understanding and forgiveness goes a long way towards finding something that works well and these are skills we have to work on.. they arent easy. If can practice these skills then our relationships become more satisfying and even when times get difficult we can be more confident about coming through them.

Im pleased to add that its not all hard work! Fun, laughter, some common interests  and a little adventure now and then are fundimental.

Javaneh

!

Don't try to understand life. Live it! Don't try to understand love. Move into love! Then you will know,,,, and that knowing will come out of your experiencing. That knowing will never destroy the mystery; the more you know, the more you know that much remains to be known!

Thank you and looking forward for your stories...

"Having married very young, I was married most of my adult life until I
suddenly stumbled into this singles' world..."

"Marriage is a plastic flower. Love is a real rose, but the real rose is beautiful in the morning; by the evening it is gone. Nobody can say when it will disappear, when the petals will start falling. Just a strong wind and it is no more, just a strong sun it is no more. But the plastic flower will be there; come rain, come sun, come anything, the plastic flower will be there." -...Guru

Dear All

Thank you so very much for taking an interest in this subject and for your comments. Thank you also to the ones who have answered those questions from their own experiences.

I have read and re-read your comments to learn from you! Ba ejazeh, I will also borrow some of your thoughtful comments for some of the pieces I am writing. Please come back and participate in the discussions, for my stories will be just that, stories of people and how they hurt in relationships with no happy endings in sight! Your wise counsel and input will be greatly appreciated! Thanks again everybody.

Souri Jan, thanks so much for the beautiful poems.

another poem, a piece of Forough's MORDAB

ناشناس نیمه پنهانیش
شرمگین چهره انسانیش
کو بکو در جستجوی جفت خویش
می دود معتاد بوی جفت خویش
جویدش گهگاه و ناباور از او
جفتش اما سخت تنها تر از او
هر دو در بیم و هراس از یکدیگر
تلخکام و ناسپاس از یکدیگر
عشقشان سودای محکومانه ای
وصلشان رویای مشکوکانه ای
آه اگر راهی به دریاییم بود
از فرو رفتن چه پرواییم بود
گر به مردابی ز جریان ماند آب
از سکون خویش نقصان یابد آب
جانش اقلیم تباهی ها شود
ژرفنایش گور ماهی ها شود

Thank you for your originality

- What does it take to be truly happy in life?

There's no such thing as happiness. Those who believe they are truely happy are disillusioned. We all have momentary lapses of happiness. If we are lucky we have long periods of satisfaction and comfort. 

- Is it absolutely necessary to have a lover or a partner in life in order to be happy?

Of course it is. We are social beings. Anyone who has convinced themselves they can be happy without a lover/partner is living an abnormal life. Abnormal? Yes, meaning, out of the ordinary.

Sexuality is a MAJOR part of human survival, to deny it or live without it (whatever the reason), is to live an incomplete life. Companionship is essential for healthy living.  

Healthy adults cannot be fulfilled without sex or partnership.

- Why are so many people out there looking, looking, and looking?

Because it isn't easy to find another human being who is satisfied with you and with whom you are satisfied. It's damn hard work. And between work and school and play, we only have limited time searching. So it continues.

- Can we have perfectly satisfying and rewarding lives without a love interest in the center of it?

Absolutely not. To love and to be loved is a human need. It is like our need for air or food or shelter. 

- How hard can it be to find someone?

VERY VERY VERY hard. Between all of our baggages, and work and school and family and personalities and religions and politics and looks and and and and ang....it is damn hard.

Mathematics doesn't help. Chaos theory or fuzzy logic...? Maybe :) 

. Why is it so complicated?

Because we expect others to make us happy. Because we are obsessed with monogamy.

- Why is it so hard, in fact, that some of us give up the search altogether and choose to live by ourselves, enjoying the occasional date but never committing to another person in a relationship?

People get tired after several failed attempts. And because divorce is a bitch and too expensive and like a nuclear bomb.  

- Assuming that you find him or her, does having someone in your life bring you happiness?

Nope, but not having them is more miserable. 

- Should we all give it up altogether?

No. Many businesses would go bankrupt.

I had a very important point to make vali hol shodam, yadam raft. Oh well.

It's a very good idea, but a never end question..!

Because every person is different. Every situation and I can say to some degree even, every feeling is different. What someone call "a real love" could be "not a big deal" in my eyes and vice-versa...

We will wait for your different stories, to debate. For now, I bring a beautiful
song of Aznavour (Il faut savoir, You should be able) for you here. Just the lyric. Here's for you :

L FAUT SAVOIR YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO

You should be able to still smile
When the best has gone away
And only the worst remains

In a life so sad you could weep

You should, at any cost,
Keep all your dignity
And, whatever it may cost us,
Go away, without looking back

Faced with destiny that disarms us,
In the face of forlorn happiness
You should hide your tears

But I, my love, I couldn’t.

You should be able to leave the table
When love has been cleared away

Without attaching a pitiful pose
But go away without making noise

You should be able to hide your pain
Under the mask of every day
And withhold the cries of hatred
That are the last words of love

You should be able to remain like ice
And silence an already dying heart

You should be able to save face
But I love you too much
But I can’t anymore

You should be able to
But I am not (don’t know how to)

Answers, sorry my answers

.

.

What does it take to be truly happy in life?

I don’t know yet.

Is it absolutely necessary to have a lover or a partner in life in order to be happy?

No, it is not necessary to have a lover or a partner in life in order to be happy, however I, for one, am not willing to live the rest of my life alone.

Why are so many people out there looking, looking, and looking?

Because we are genetically wired to be with someone.

Is our search for love a part of our yearning for our “personal legend” as reflected by Paulo Coelho?

When I read 'The Alchemist' in Farsi for the first time I didn’t quite understand what he meant by “legend”, later when I read it in English I was still confused with the word-to-word translation of it.  I have to find out what he said in original Spanish version of the book.  I don’t think he means a life partner by “personal legend”.  Either way, not all the people who live on this planet have yearning for a personal legend.  Most people find a partner, fight with their partner, and then die.

Can we have perfectly satisfying and rewarding lives without a love interest in the center of it?

I seriously doubt it, but maybe something on the side would help.

How hard can it be to find someone?

Very hard, extremely hard.

Doesn’t it seem mathematically possible for every man or woman to be able to find a mate and to live together happily ever after?

No, it’s mathematically impossible.  For every man or woman to be able to find a mate and to live together happily ever after means that there cannot be any failure what so ever, and that just about kills any mathematician right there.

Then why is it so hard?

Because the same genetic forces that have compelled people to seek a partner in life have also forced them to be picky.  Survival of human species, or any species, has depended of selective choices.  Without a selection mechanism, people would marry off to partners that are not fit for survival and hence would cause the demise of the specie.  That’s the jest of it, to that you must add several layers of human complex behavioral patterns, emotion, environment, social, laws, rules, regulations...etc. and you get what we have now, people who are scared shitless about making a commitment for the fear of falling into a quagmire that they would not be able to get out of, for which they have to pay a high price for.

Why is it so complicated?

See above.

Why is it so hard, in fact, that some of us give up the search altogether and choose to live by ourselves, enjoying the occasional date but never committing to another person in a relationship?

The emotional, financial, physical...etc. consequences of a failed relationship is immense, therefore many people give up searching.

Assuming that you find him or her, does having someone in your life bring you happiness?

The right person could, might, maybe, possibly bring you happiness, but it also could bring you misery.

Should we all give it up altogether?

Not all of us, but some of us should.

Meaning of life?!

"What does it take to be truly happy in life?"

"Should we all give it up altogether?"

Nazy there is no magical solution! I remember that Everybody loves Ray episode where the girl asks her parents "why are we here?" and everyone scrambles to find an answer and give their version of what they have read and learned in philosophy and history. Much like our own philosophers du jour here who mix and match school of thoughts and sell it to omat-e hamishe dar sahne! Many times having to explain "misunderstandings" which of course there are none.

Individual stories are nice but trying to find an answer or answers to this problem is not something that you can hang your hat on.

You can find someone if you really want, IF this is a priority for you. So set your priorities as you like and you shall have a "good life"!

Thank you

Nazy jaan, I do not think anyone can find a perfect match out there. We are all different, each with habits and ways that could drive a partner crazy. The only perfect match is oneself. I think if one wishes not to be alone, one needs to find a person closest to perfect, and then just put up with all the imperfect things that remain. 

I am anxiously waiting for you to dish out some juicy stories. :-)

Feshangi

looking forward to them!

Nazy jan

I can't wait to read your stories. I often wonder about the same questions you posed here and it'd be nice to see and hear the different takes on the issue.

Now I started humming to the tune of R.E.M. "everybody hurts"...

(great!)

:0)

IRANdokht