Looking down on others

Repressing our primal tendency to stereotype


Balatarin
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Looking down on others
by sadchicagodad
03-Apr-2008
 

Stereotyping is something that all of us have done at some point in our lives whether we admit it or not. There’s some very primitive part of our brains that compels us to do so. Only when one recognizes that stereotyping is as harmful to its perpetrator as to its victim can we begin to overcome our compulsion to engage in it. I regard stereotyping as being akin to judging someone based upon the kind of junk mail one receives in his or her email. Just as none of us has any control over what kind of junk mail is sent to us, we have no control over what others think of us as individuals based upon their own preconceived ideas of what kind of person we ought to be based upon our race, ethnicity, national origin or the like.

If one were to judge me based solely upon the kind of junk mail that is sent to my inbox on a fairly regular basis, one might rightly conclude that I am either the luckiest or unluckiest man in the world. On the one hand, I receive a mindboggling number of emails regularly advising me that I have won such-and-such big-bucks-lotto or this-and-that super-duper jackpot. From this one might reasonably infer that all the stars in the Heavens had fallen into perfect alignment right above my head in order to mystically conspire in such a way as to make me the wealthiest man in history of the universe. On the other hand, the number of emails that I, all-too-frequently, get from companies encouraging me to buy these pills or that lotion to increase the size of my “you-know-what”, would surely cause any rational person to conclude that I must surely have been born the “smallest” man on the planet and the one most in need of keeping an electron microscope in the bedroom at all times.

Unfortunately (financially)…and fortunately (physically), my inbox doesn’t define me as a person, but other people’s stereotypes of me sometimes do. Anytime a person is stereotyped, he or she is diminished as an individual in incalculable ways. People who want to paint all the individuals of a group with the same brush use distorting labels to malign and diminish the spirit of individuals. The thing that those who regularly engage in stereotyping fail to understand is that their behavior not only invites, but demands reciprocation on the part of their victims.

For example, if I go around saying all Iranians are terrorists, I should not be surprised when Iranians respond by saying all Americans are backward, cultureless, ignorant rednecks. Stereotyping is a vicious cycle that feeds on itself. When the members of any two groups of people start seeing themselves as vastly different from one another it begins to impair their powers of perception, they gradually begin to see the other, through the blurring lens of intolerance, as inferior, and they fail to remember that we were all born with ten fingers and toes and that we all bleed red when we’re cut.

Weren’t we all innocent at one point in our lives before we learned how to hate, for hating is surely a learned skill? We learn it after we acquire our capacity for speech. We learn bigotry, narrow-mindedness, and even fanaticism from our parents, our grandparents, our cultures and our societies. By the time each of us has reached our teen years, we have a well developed capacity to look down on, to despise and to hate those that may be a little different from us. We are all taught well how to hate, but how many of us are really taught how to love? The burden of hate is one that is heavy and it is one that ultimately consumes all that it touches.

This is a burden that all of us share in life. There is good news though. Just as we have the ability to hate one another, we have the ability to relegate it to the rubbish heap of our lives. We can’t always escape what others may think of us, but we can, if we choose to, begin to repress our own primal tendency to stereotype and look down on others. Before we can do this, we must want to do it, however... and it takes work on our part; hating others is easy, accepting them is not. Before any of us can change we must want it for ourselves and even more for our children. Children who grow up learning to love, accept and respect others are such joyful adults to be around…no matter where they are from originally, but those who have been polluted by hate and have grown up seeing others as different, less than and not-as-good-as are miserable and petty people who are never happy with themselves or others. I don’t know if any among us are able to completely expunge the darker demons that lurk in our hearts, but we can make progress and grow emotionally and if we are just willing to try.

I got to thinking about the subject of “what others think of me” because of a refreshingly honest response that I received to my recent blog entry entitled, My Iranian Slut. His email confirmed what thirty years of being married to an Iranian lady had already taught me. I was intrigued by what he wrote because the gentleman openly admitted to a prejudice which I had long felt. I guess he validated my feelings when so many of my Iranian friends over the years have tried to convince me that I have imagined the cool reception that I have sometimes received from some Iranian men when they realized my wife was one of them. Just as any Iranian in America, Europe, Australia, or any other part of the world knows when a non-Iranian is being standoffish toward them, so too have I been able to feel when there was an uncomfortable chill in the air.

Here is what Aghaye Kamangir wrote to me:

“I'm a Persian myself and have many Iranian friends and can confirm to you that yes, there's an issue among Persian men ragarding Persian women being emotionally involved with non-Iranians. I'm not saying that every single Iranian man is like that, but the majority are and I'm talking about the ones that have lived outside Iran for years, like myself. Although I also have to say that I've noticed the same in other nationalities, specially mediterranean countries. It must be a cultural issue and well to tell you the truth, I myself have been in that situation in the past where I did not feel comfortable with the idea of an Iranian lady I knew being involved with a non-Iranian man, as it was the case. I know it's mediocre and ridiculous, but I guess this happened to me because I was attarcted to her somehow. But I never gor to a point of even thinking she was a slut, I know she wasn't and that's why I was bothered. I have thought about this a lot, and despite the fact I know this is very mediocre, but I know I still have to work on myself on this one.”

His frankness and honesty were like a cool breeze on a very hot day. While many among us, whether Iranian or not, are able to easily see the flaws and shortcomings in others, we are all-too-often unable to see our own frailties of character. I like honest people and I respect people who are able to look within themselves before they ask others to do the same. This is why Aghaye Kamangir’s message struck me as being particularly profound. On its face, his message is quite simple, but when one reads between the lines, one sees that there is much more to it than meets the eye.

I respect a man that admits his flaws and endeavors to rise above them. God knows that I have plenty of flaws myself. I respect those who, through introspection, try to rise above the darker parts of their nature, for I struggle the same struggle, and strive each day to become a better person than I was the day before.

Sometimes progress comes in small, almost imperceptible steps and sometimes progress comes in lessons learned that have such an impact upon us that we can never forget them. For instance, five decades ago as a small boy, I got into a quarrel with another child who had come over to my house to play. The boy, a black child, had done something to upset me. In a fit of anger, I called him a nigger. My father, who overheard me, came and grabbed me by the back of my neck and asked me what I had said. I repeated the offensive word that I had just uttered. In a tone that let me know that my father about to tell the boy off, he growled that there was, indeed, a nigger in our yard, but it wasn’t the other child; it was me! I almost started crying, but I fought to hold back the tears. How could my own flesh and blood humiliate me by calling me a nigger in front of a nigger!? Realizing that he had hurt me deeply with his public rebuke and savage affront to my seven-year-old honor, his tone softened and he bent down on one knee to look me in the eye. He explained to me that the word nigger did not describe a person’s skin color, but rather the content of a person’s character. Until that day, I didn’t know that it was possible for a nigger to come in any color under the sun, but it is a lesson that I have tried not to forget. While I didn’t completely understand his point that day so long ago, over the course of my life, I have come to appreciate the lesson he taught me that day more and more as each day passes.

I am nowhere near perfect, so I must continuously struggle against the dark demons that lurk within my heart, but just admitting that they are there, and that I am a flawed human being, helps me to keep them at bay until the day comes, if ever, I am able to negate them completely. Anytime any of us judges others based upon characteristics or circumstances that are beyond their control, we allow the darker demons within us to reign supreme.

I am mindful that the coolness that I’ve sometimes felt with some Iranians because of who I am married to has been similarly felt by the Iranian husbands and wives of non-Iranians. I have heard many stories of how they have had to put up with rude comments or inexcusable behavior from Americans over the years, and for this, as an American, I am ashamed and embarrassed. At other times, however, they’ve had to deal with the prejudices of their own people. I know that in our thirty years together, my wife has felt the sting of disapproval come not only from my people, but from some amongst her hamvatan as well. Knowing full well that the stares and unkind words from Americans have occasionally hurt her over the years, I cannot begin to imagine how she felt those times that she was forced to endure the same kind of treatment from those she cares most for, her own people.

Lest I digress any further from the topic, let me say that all stereotyping is wrong. It doesn’t matter if it is directed at people of a different race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or based upon private matters such as who someone marries or doesn’t marry. We are all the same race at the end of the day, the human race. I am glad to know that I am not alone in trying, day by day, bit-by-bit to improve myself. Just knowing that there are others out there, like Aghaye Kamangir, makes my never-ending journey in life for self-improvement seem more worthwhile and attainable. So to all those who share our struggle to overcome that darker parts our shared human nature, thank you!


Balatarin
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Dee M

Wow

by Dee M on Tue Apr 08, 2008 09:52 PM PDT

checked out some of your other articles

 Really identified with Hevan scent - left a response!

 Thank Yoooou.


  •  
sadchicagodad

To: Mona

by sadchicagodad on Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:03 AM PDT

Thank you very much for you warm words of encouragement.

CD


  •  
Mona 19

Dear Sir (Sad chicago dad)

by Mona 19 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 09:47 AM PDT

I 'd like to Thank You for writing so Passionately and Beautifully...I sometimes leave a comment... I read your articles and I enjoyed reading them.(I'm sure there are other people who do the same thing but WE all like your writing very much. )

So Dear Sir, PLEASE KEEP WRITING.

May God Bless you and your loved ones today and always.

//www.bettertobless.com/movie1.html

Respectfully, Mona :)

 

 

 

 


  •  
Don

As an American

by Don on Sun Apr 06, 2008 04:21 AM PDT

I certainly can speak as an American, because I am one of those things that walks on two legs, commonly called a biped, but you can call me a “human” for the short text.

America is complicated when it comes to tolerance. We do love to hate but we pride ourselves in hating the right things. We hate common crimes and shun criminals, but we love our rights to speak freely about any one, even in cursing.

We have NO tolerance of people that deprive others of their rights as spelled out in our constitution, as the right to have any religion that you desire; then we argue like a bat from hell that same religion is wrong. Do not ask how we manage to do this, but we love to squabble among ourselves, but yet try to stop a person from believing as they would is a cardinal sin that we will not tolerate.

If you are confused so far, just think how I feel being an American. Here in Oregon, that is a State in the USA, we get confused often on what to hate and what to love, what to have tolerance for and what to shun. Therefore, when the doubt must be resolved, we love to go to Court, and squabble even more, as it is OUR RIGHT, to be right, unless proven wrong in a valid court of USA law. Needless to say, there is an attorney on every street corner making a good living at our expense.

For example: I cannot stand Islam, I argue against it, I have no tolerance. However, try to stop a person from believing in Allah, and I will take up arms in war for that person to cherish what ever beliefs they desire as long as they are law abiding (meaning do NOT hurt others). Now how do you define “do not hurt others”?

Yes the USA is complicated, it would be so much easer to have one set of beliefs to love and all other beliefs are to be hated. What to hate, and what to love, all cut and dry, all put in a neat little box with a ribbon on it for good looks.

But real life is not that easy, those that say they have it all figured out, like a Christian preacher or a politician, do not know squat from Shine-O-la. In all honesty, we are working on our own country, as we are not satisfied yet. We have not obtained the very best that we can be. We DO NOT “know it all”, regardless of what Pres. Bush tells the world. Bush does NOT speak for me and I have NO tolerance of people that use my name in vain.

We have a lot of work to do in this country USA; human rights are an on going battle of fairness and equality one to another. It is silly to think in poetic terms of, “Let us all get along with each other.” Reality shows just the opposite, we love NOT getting along. We are a land of individuals, independent people with independent minds, hopes, dreams and aspirations. So we have to figure this out: how can 300 million people each with different dreams, hopes, beliefs, and aspirations, how can we make room for all and leave none out? How can even the small voice be heard, even the smallest of human life is most valuable.

Like I said, the USA is complicated, we need to think about what we are doing and be on guard against the “BIG LIE”. Those that say they are for human freedoms may be the one most likely to make you a slave, and hurt others. I have no tolerance for these people.

If we have one good point, one redeeming feature for all our confusion it is this. We do have our court system, both criminal and civil, and NO person, great or small, rich or poor, shall be denied their day in court (with rights to appeal to a higher court) to seek justice and fairness, backed up by police powers that act for the individual at the direction of the Judge and/or jury.

For a biped I said many words to make a simple idea complex. So here is simplicity. We do not know what we are doing--- we do not have a clue. However, we do know this beyond a reasonable doubt---HUMANS FIRST, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness is a natural right to all humans that shall never be denied. This is a very high standard to live to, it is not easy, and the errors have been many, way too many, so I have run out of tolerance.

Yeah, sure, hate Americans, that is popular. But know this, in this country hating is not a crime and you have the right to tell the world and this government about it, and live the next day as a free person and no harm will come to you. What do you think about US now?

As an example: We had that sawed off scrimp president of Iranian speak at one of our USA colleges, YOU bet we did in Q@A. Our common ladies put that nut case in his place and he was shown horribly wrong on every one of his issues. Our US women are FREE to talk back with the same authority as the president of Iran. I doubt he will be back any time soon, but he is welcome any time.

See how we are? We are a bunch of intolerant people trying to get along. It is said that democracy is a state of constant protest and rebellion, only with rules. As shown above: That man protested the small child, by reason of race, to not let him into the pool. In the USA the parents have the right protest back and drag that man into court and sue the crap (and every dime) out of him. Like I said, we are a very intolerant people.

We have no tolerance for discrimination by race, nor for hurting a small child, and we do have relief. Relief  is not suppression of anger and hate, but rather very vocal and active and we live to tell about it by the force of law, this is the rule we live by.

I thank you for your time.

Don


  •  
default

I certainly can speak as an American

by Don (not verified) on Sun Apr 06, 2008 03:47 AM PDT

I certainly can speak as an American, because I am one of those things that walks on two legs, commonly called a biped, but you can call me a “human” for the short text.

America is complicated when it comes to tolerance. We do love to hate but we pride ourselves in hating the right things. We hate common crimes and shun criminals, but we love our rights to speak freely about any one, even in cursing.

We have NO tolerance of people that deprive others of their rights as spelled out in our constitution, as the right to have any religion that you desire; then we argue like a bat from hell that same religion is wrong. Do not ask how we manage to do this, but we love to squabble among ourselves, but yet try to stop a person from believing as they would is a cardinal sin that we will not tolerate.

If you are confused so far, just think how I feel being an American. Here in Oregon, that is a State in the USA, we get confused often on what to hate and what to love, what to have tolerance for and what to shun. Therefore, when the doubt must be resolved, we love to go to Court, and squabble even more, as it is OUR RIGHT, to be right, unless proven wrong in a valid court of USA law. Needless to say, there is an attorney on every street corner making a good living at our expense.

For example: I cannot stand Islam, I argue against it, I have no tolerance. However, try to stop a person from believing in Allah, and I will take up arms in war for that person to cherish what ever beliefs they desire as long as they are law abiding (meaning do NOT hurt others). Now how do you define “do not hurt others”?

Yes the USA is complicated, it would be so much easer to have one set of beliefs to love and all other beliefs are to be hated. What to hate, and what to love, all cut and dry, all put in a neat little box with a ribbon on it for good looks. But real life is not that easy, those that say they have it all figured out, like a Christian preacher or a politician, do not know squat from Shine-O-la.

In all honesty, we are working on our own country, as we are not satisfied yet. We have not obtained the very best that we can be. We DO NOT “know it all”, regardless of what Pres. Bush tells the world. Bush does NOT speak for me and I have NO tolerance of people that use my name in vain. We have a lot of work to do in this country USA; human rights are an on going battle of fairness and equality one to another. It is silly to think in poetic terms of, “Let us all get along with each other.” Reality shows just the opposite, we love NOT getting along. We are a land of individuals, independent people with independent minds, hopes, dreams and aspirations. So we have to figure this out: how can 300 million people each with different dreams, hopes, beliefs, and aspirations, how can we make room for all and leave none out? How can even the small voice be heard, even the smallest of human life is most valuable.

Like I said, the USA is complicated, we need to think about what we are doing and be on guard against the “BIG LIE”. Those that say they are for human freedoms may be the one most likely to make you a slave, and hurt others. I have no tolerance for these people.

If we have one good point, one redeeming feature for all our confusion it is this. We do have our court system, both criminal and civil, and NO person, great or small, rich or poor, shall be denied their day in court (with rights to appeal to a higher court) to seek justice and fairness, backed up by police powers that act for the individual at the direction of the Judge and/or jury.

For a biped I said many words to make a simple idea complex. So here is simplicity. We do not know what we are doing--- we do not have a clue. However, we do know this beyond a reasonable doubt---HUMANS FIRST, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness is a natural right to all humans that shall never be denied.

This is a very high standard to live to, it is not easy, and the errors have been many, way too many, so I have run out of tolerance. Yeah, sure, hate Americans, that is popular. But know this, in this country hating is not a crime and you have the right to tell the world and this government about it, and live the next day as a free person and no harm will come to you. What do you think about US now?

As an example: We had that sawed off scrimp president of Iranian speak at one of our USA colleges, YOU bet we did in Q@A. Our common ladies put that nut case in his place and he was shown horribly wrong on every one of his issues. Our US women are FREE to talk back with the same authority as the president of Iran. I doubt he will be back any time soon, but he is welcome any time.

See how we are? We are a bunch of intolerant people trying to get along. It is said that democracy is a state of constant protest and rebellion, only with rules. As shown above: That man protested the small child, by reason of race, to not let him into the pool. In the USA the parents have the right protest back and drag that man into court and sue the crap (and every dime) out of him.

Like I said, we are a very intolerant people. We have no tolerance for discrimination by race, nor for hurting a small child, and we do have relief. Relief it is not suppression of anger and hate, but rather very vocal and active and we live to tell about it by the force of law, this is the rule we live by.

I thank you for your time.

Don


  •  
sadchicagodad

To: Dee

by sadchicagodad on Sat Apr 05, 2008 09:13 AM PDT

Thanks so much for your very kind and generous words and thank you for sharing your story.  Relationships are a funny thing in that no two relationships are governed by the exact same rules or boundries.  Everyone one has to find their own way and negotiate the rules and dimensions of their relationship with their partner. 

You have someone dear to you that lives on the other side of the world and that's ok if that is the way the two of you want your relationship to be or if that is the way it must be.  No one can measure your relationship with the rules which govern their own and no one can tell you if your relationship is right or wrong.  That's not how it works, as I'm sure you know.  The important thing is that you know that there is someone out there that you can count on when the chips are down.  Isn't that all any of us are looking for in life someone that we can count on no matter what happens...someone that is going to love us unconditionally.  Life is short and far too many people spend so much of their time telling others how to live their lives that they don't have much time to live their own.  

God Bless 


  •  
Dee M

WOOPS...SORRY

by Dee M on Sat Apr 05, 2008 06:39 AM PDT

Dee M

 Im new to this!!

I tried to post afew times and it simply vanished before my eyes in the end I have posted twice both saying much the same thing!

normally would have just given up

HOWEVER....

YOUR STORY TOUCHED ME DEEPLY .....

enough to keep perservering!!


  •  
Dee M

YES!! hate is a learnt skill.

by Dee M on Sat Apr 05, 2008 05:42 AM PDT

God has blessed you with a powerful voice. The tick is, as you know somehow me must get through this life … keeping ones heart open!

 

You have managed to get through this life,  with an open heart! (Despite much pain) As you know it’s easier to put up ones Shutters and hate..but that would mean a life half lived!!

 

Human relationships are complex at the best of times….I know what it is to love a Persian man -

Mine was (and still is) the most difficult and awkward human being I have ever met!!

Today, 27 years later, we live opposite

sides of the world and we still argue (on line)

but I know, that if I ever found myself

in any major strife….he would fly to the end of the world to help!!

 I defy anyone to label that! 

Somehow, I feel that I have exposed myself to you

but that’s what happens when ‘one comes accross a person with an open heart' one feels instantly safe!

its a gift you have been blessed with.

Enjoyed your story - thankyou!

 

 


  •  
default

INSPRING.....

by Dee (not verified) on Sat Apr 05, 2008 05:08 AM PDT

You are an old soul....
God has blessed you with a powerful voice and you have managed to get through this life keeping your heart open (despite the pain) because you know its easier to put up ones shutters and hate but that would mean a life half lived!!
I know what it is to love a Persian man -
mine was (and still is) the most difficult and awkward human being I have ever met!! Today we live in opposite sides of the world 27 years on and we still argue (on line) but in our hearts we know that if either of us ever got into major trouble the other would fly to the end of the world to help!!

I defy anyone to put a label on that!

Somehow, I have opened myself to you
but that’s what happens when ‘one has an open heart’
People feel safe to expose their real selves - Thank you!


  •  
Tahirih

Anonymouse

by Tahirih on Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:36 AM PDT

It is fine with me that you do not want to know more. Your attitude is respectful and you believe in freedom of thought .This is the key to peace on Earth.

But unfortunetly this is not the attitude of many Iranians about bahais.Therefore we need to talk about our beliefs and inform people that we do not burn Quran or put this strange powder in peoples tea or share our spouses with each other in our gatherings.

Also we have to tell Iranians that at this time of humanity Iranian Bahai youth can not attend university ,also children are being harassed at schools,and many more crulties.

My friend keep the open mind and defend freedom for all,this is the essence of my faith too.

respectfully,

Tahirih


  •  
Anonymouse

Tahireh

by Anonymouse on Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:11 AM PDT

I'm sure it is not hard to learn about the Bahai faith.  Internet solves everything! Personally I am not interested in learning more.  My response to those who look down on Bahais is the same as those who look down on others.  We shouldn't look down period.  I look down on Bill Oreilly, Bush, Cheney and other people like them but they don't care. Somehow they are immune.  Like Cheney said "So?".

This problem is not going away anytime soon.  I don't see any progress in engaging in intellectual debate with those who look down on Bahais and use "facts" and "figures".  My response to their "facts" and "figures" is "So?" :-)

This is not that difficult.  You should be able to practice your faith and beliefs without the threat of death or torture.  If that is the case something is seriously wrong and we need more lessons in tolerance than religious beliefs.

The reason I brought up the Bahai faith was because of the profound impact that it had on CD and his wife.  I think there is a lesson to be learned here which is how such a simple issue plays with the lives of not only that poor girl but also with those who knew her.  I also used the Bahai faith because it fits with the title of this article and the injustice in general.

We need to learn tolerance.  Actually there should be laws against intolerance.  There are such laws in US and that is the reason we see so much diversity that you can't find anywhere else in the world, considering same people in US would kill each other in their home countries.  Like Sunni and Shiites, Catholic and Protestants, Serbs and Croats and so on. 

There should be more laws against intolerance, like against gays and lesbians, but Bush and his cronies are more interested in a Marriage constitutional amendment.


  •  
Tahirih

To Anonymouse:

by Tahirih on Fri Apr 04, 2008 09:32 AM PDT

I was going to stay on course in this article.But your comment about not knowing about bahai faith ( you and 98% of Iranians)motivated me to write to you.My dear if we talk we get accused of preaching ( if you go to this blog and read you will know what I mean.

//iranian.com/main/blog/mona-19/iranian-bahai-school-children

Then we stop talking and get accused of not defending our beliefs and keeping people in the dark.You my friend go to the above blog read the article and comments then tell us your advice as how we should behave?

In this age of technology ,we can all google Bahai faith and woolah!! it is there to read and investigate.

I am by no means saying that we are all nice and loving and perfect humans, but why ,no one ever tried to go beyond the Mullah propaganda against bahais??

We have no excuse,the science has made it possible,a klick of finger, and privacy of our home!!!!

I used to hear all these wierred rumors abourt bahais, before meeting my husband in university,but as I got to know them and to see their worship and love of their faith ,I became fassinated with this religion of love and peace.Then because of Irans revolution our close friends that we were socializing every fridays ,were harassed and in a few cases tourtured and killed.

people that were examples of a perfect human being.that was the time that my heart moved and I could see that for no material gain a person could so inocently get killed.My good friend Kamran lutfi, a devoted husband and father ,a smart engineer, with promissing future ,a man with a great sense of humor which was a great cook,and joker,was taken away  by forces of darkness and turtured and killed.This was the turning point for me ,I turned to Bahaullah and his faith and has never looked back.

May be I am just emotional today because April 8th is the day his mighty soul ,escaped his tourtured body to the God's kingdom.

With hope of peace on Earth,

Tahirih


  •  
default

No Biological Basis For

by Anonymousk (not verified) on Fri Apr 04, 2008 08:31 AM PDT

No Biological Basis For Race,
It is a cultural term, period.

"Namely, that the very concept of race is bogus and has no basis in biology, according to most scientists. The concept of race is a social and cultural construction. . . . Race simply cannot be tested or proven scientifically,'' according to a policy statement by the American Anthropological Association. ``It is clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. The concept of `race' has no validity . . . in the human species.'"

A great book by Spencer Wells is a MUST Read on lack of genetic basis on a non-issue of Race. The book is called "The Journey of Man", A Genetic Odyssey":

//www.amazon.com/Journey-Man-Genetic-Odyssey/...

//www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/ch...


  •  
Anonymouse

SOME of course CD

by Anonymouse on Fri Apr 04, 2008 08:01 AM PDT

Although when you see so many thinking that way, some which is meant for not that many I think, ends up giving it up to just generalization.  Just look at how much Romney's mormon faith played into people voting for him and how much he had to talk about it.  But in the end yes it is always some, especially for something that is not good.  People are always better than that.

As far as HOW they can have ill will, well I saw in discovery channel the other night about monkeys that violence is inherent in them and the doctor who was researching them said they don't know why but they sometimes resort to violence for no good reason and compared it to humans and wars and so on.  But the doctor said that it shouldn't be a reason we just say violence is inherent in humans, it should be and is being controlled.

As far as what threat minorities in general are to the majority, well you can only imagine. It is not just being a minority, sometimes you are a majority like Shiites in Iraq or Blacks in South Africa and you are still being maltreated.  It has to do with knowing better and the evolution of the society.  What threats were blacks to whites? As time goes and a country evolves in its history, these shortcomings are usually set aside and real problems exposed as they should.

Tahireh while many Iranians (I'm not guessing a number) look down on Bahais (the title of this article) most of them (this I can guess a number 98%) don't know anything about Bahais.  What I said is the basic idea that they have or been told and that's why I compared it to the Mormon faith. A lot of Americans haven't heard of the name Joe Smith and when you say it they think it is John Doe, per se.


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Tahirih

To Sadchicagodad:

by Tahirih on Fri Apr 04, 2008 07:21 AM PDT

Sir I am so sorry for your loss.I have not seen your previous articles about your son.I am speechless and not able to find words of my own to ease your pain.

Death is part of our normal destiny,but loss of a child is not part of the cycle of life and it makes it hard to cope with it.

I am amazed at your strenght,and command you for being so resilient.

I admire your way of thinking about prejudice,you are absolutly right when you say it is a learned behaviour.Children are born free of these maladies of grown up world.Only through role modeling their parents they learn to hate.

As far as bahai's I have to say to the "anonymouse"that by comparing us to mormons it is  gross simplification .

I do not want to make this blog about my issue or a bahai issue,so I will not argue that.

As far as your wife and the coolness toward that girl it is hopefull that your wife is not acting that way anymore.we all make mistakes,but some of us learn from it and some stay in the depth of ignorance and not even know about it !!! which is truly sad.

Your beloved son is in a better place ,and this separation is temporary.He will remember you when you arrive there and you will be united with him for eternity.

Bahaullah says"Death ,the tender messenger of joy,opens the door to eternal life in all the worlds of God."

Please feel free to e-mail me as you wish .

With all my respect,

Tahirih

 

 


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sadchicagodad

Anonymouse, Thanks for

by sadchicagodad on Fri Apr 04, 2008 07:18 AM PDT

Anonymouse,

Thanks for your insightful comments.  I would make one correction to your last post though; Bahais are to SOME Iranians like Mormans are to SOME Americans.  Frankly, whatever faith one ascribles to or doesn't ascribe to isn't any of my business.  If someone wants to pray to a hammer, a dog, a plate, a statue, God, Allah, Khoda, the devil or nothing at all, that's ok with me.  I clearly understand WHY some Iranians hate Bahais (I don't agree with it, but I understand it).  What I don't understand is HOW they can harbor so much ill will toward a people who are no threat to them.  I'm glad that my wife was able to overcome her culturally instilled compulsion to hate Bahais, but I am still sorry to this day that the price of my wife opening her eyes and her mind was the death of an innocent young woman.  Of course, my wife had no involvement in that tragedy, but she remained silent when it still mattered and it might have made a difference.  It's not enough to be against prejudice, one must be part of the solution in stamping it out.  It begins with one heart at a time.

CD 


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Anonymouse

Bahais and Mormons

by Anonymouse on Fri Apr 04, 2008 05:44 AM PDT

CD I think (I may be wrong) Bahais are to Iranians like Mormons are to Americans.  Iranians think because Bahaollah claimed to have come after prophet Muhammad that is a sin because god said Muhammad is my last prophet.  Americans think since Joe Smith said he is a prophet who came after Jesus their followers should not be trusted and something fishy about them.

This is hog wash of course.  Imagine Joe Smith had appeared in a time in America where tolerance was at its lowest. He and his followers would have had a much harder time.

Tolerance in Iran is currently very low. The Iranian regime fans the intolerance and our amusing president calls holocaust a myth.  Afsanast!

I know few Bahais and have worked with couple of them and the subject of their faith didn't even come up.  I never ask and they never talk about it other than to say they are Bahai. 

Despite the history of hate in America, I believe we live in a time that has made America very unique.  There is so much diversity that the strongest advocates of hate can't do shit.  Just look at the illegal immigrants and the explosion of the hispanic population.  So much is talked about them but nothing is being done, because nothing can be done.  America simply evolves and if certain kinds of Presidents don't try to mess it up too much illegaly, it keeps evolving into something better.  I mean just look at how many times this conservative supreme court has overturned him.


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sadchicagodad

To: Tahirih

by sadchicagodad on Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:10 PM PDT

Khanoom,

Thank you so much for leaving a comment.  Your story touched me deeply because I know what kind of scarifice, you made for love.  I have never fully understood the hang-up that some Iranians have toward the Bahais.  Sure, I understand that they consider you all to be apostates, but the vile attitudes in the West and violent attitudes in Iran, I have never comprehended.  What I have witnesse in my lifetime is that some in the I-A comunity of the U.S. do not practice what they preach.  One the one hand, they want to be respected as individuals by "whitey," but they wish to deny that very same respect to some in their very own community.  Instead of trying to live their lives in a Godly way, they take it upon themselves to tell others what to believe in and how to worship Khoda. 

While they want "whitey" to respect their rights as Muslims, they want to withhold the Bahais right to worship as they choose.  They can't have their cake and eat it, too!  Either it needs to be all one way or all they other.  Many years ago, before Iran's revolution, my wife, a Muslim by birth, introduced me to a beautiful and charming Bahai girl.  We socialized with her quite often and she always had such a generous and accepting attitude toward us, unlike the cool reception that we regularly received from some young Iranians, especially the boys.  Once the revolution came along, my wife got caught up in the fervor raging in America among many young and patriotic Iranians.  She turned her back on the Bahai girl and did not defend her when others savagely attacked her verbally.  

When we discovered that the girl, who could not return home to Iran, committed suicide alone in her apartment, my wife cried and cried.  Cruelly, I told her to stop crying and stop being a hypocrite.  The dead girl no longer needed her tears or remorse.  I was disgusted then, and even now, many years later, I feel a wave of revulsion come over my mind when I think of it.  From the sad death of that beautiful young spirit, came my wife's redemption.  She has not turned her face away from the cries of any more of her Bahai countrymen since that tragedy.  She does not now and hasn't in many years engaged in or abided others who engaged in anti-Bahai rhetoric.  She is aware that there are probably many Bahais that she would not like if she met them, but she would not like them as individuals, not as Bahais.  Regrettably, it took the death of a young woman to open my wife's eyes, but she no longer has it within her to hate for religion's sake.  

You may or may not be aware that my wife and I lost our only child some months back; I have written of him before.  In his lifetime, he taught his sweet mother and me so much about tolerance for others.  At different times in his life, he was called a camel jock and a sand nigger in America because of who his mother was and at other times, he got the same kind of treatment from some people in Iran.   

Some in the I-A community like to think that only "whitey" has the capacity to hate, but my son learned when was ten years old that everyone, everywhere can hate.  While on a trip with his mother to Tehran, our son was denied entrance to an indoor swimming pool when the management learned that his father was an American. There attitude was that the nut never falls far from the tree.  It didn't matter that he was half-Persian and spoke the language fluently...as far as the manager was concerned, he was American since I was.  His mother's nationality, Iranian, counted for nothing.   My son's baba borzorg was so ashamed of the people at the swimming pool that said his grandson could not swim in the same pool as the other boys; he was an American after all, the inference being the other children could not be contaminated with my son's filth.   

Our son, in his short, but remarkable life got to experience the best and the worst of both of his cultures.  He never got angry though.  He seemed to understand and take in stride that hate sometimes comes not only from people who are very different from you, but from those who are just like you.  Regardless of this sometimes painful reality in his life, he alway knew that his parents loved him and one another and that their were many good Americans and good Iranians that rejected prejudice and racism in all its forms.  If my boy was man enough to forgive those who may have hurt his feelings, then I will try to fill his very big shoes, and shout to the world that prejudice is a form of spritial pollution and we much stop it, even if people think I am a wacko for being too idealistic.

Tahirih khnoom, God bless you and your husband.  Your story gave me and my wife strength.


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sadchicagodad

To: Anonymousv

by sadchicagodad on Thu Apr 03, 2008 09:54 PM PDT

Thank you for your response.  Perhaps, I didn't make my point clearly in my writing and for that I beg your pardon.  Prejudice, in my opinion, is something that is within us, but it needs something to help it mature and grow to fruitition; it needs to be taught, and it needs to be learned.  It is very much like a light switch that is turned off.  Just because a switch on the wall is turned off would we say that a room has no lighting; of course not.  In order to illuminate the room we have to turn the switch on.  Similarly, to turn on a child's ability to see others as different, less than or inferior, he must be taught how to hate.  

Have you ever seen small children, four or five years old, playing together?  They do not see the differences between themselves that are so obvious to adults; they accept one another and they play together.  Why?  The answer is simple; they have not yet learned how to hate.  So when you say that it is normal to be prejudiced you are right in one respect, but you discount the learned aspect of hating.  Being prejudiced against others and diminishing their self-worth may be normal in the sense that we are all born with an undeveloped capacity  to hate, but simply being born with this vestige of our primitive past doesn't mean that must be destined to be its slave. 

Is it such an outrageous idea to think that it is possible to teach our children how to love, accept and respect one another?   If we have the parenting skills to teach them to hate, I'm sure that we can find a way to teach them to love.  Every parent says that he or she wants more for their children than they had for themselves in life.  If this is true, then someone has to step up to the plate and call evil, evil.  Being prejudice against others and stereotying them is evil, p-e-r-i-o-d! 

Perhaps, it is only wishful thinking on my part to think that the prejudice that our hearts our born with can be diminished, but for our children's sake, don't we have to try?  Just because older generations polluted us with hate and taught us how to belittle one another, must we pass on this filthy burden to our progeny? The cycle can be broken if we have the courage and the will to do it.  As I said before, it is easier to hate than to love. Some people, thank God, are trying to take the road less traveled by opening their eyes, their minds and their hearts to a new and better way of thinking.  Thanks again for your comment and God bless you.


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YES - hate is a learnt skill...Thankyou!!

by Dee (not verified) on Thu Apr 03, 2008 09:33 PM PDT

INSPIRING.......
you are an old soul still working on your spititual growth asking the right questions and questioning the cultrual norms - you will have a rich and delightful (and at times a painful) journey!
But you must keep your heart open. As you point out, it is of course easier to shut our hearts off but to do so would mean a life half lived! I have loved a persian guy and he was and still is "the most ackward difficult person I have ever come into contact with!!" 25 years later we are still fighting on line with eachother!! but, I also know that he would fly to the end of the world if i was ever to find myself in serous in strife...
Try stereo typing that!
God has blessed you with a powerful voice!
Thank You!


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It is normal to be

by Anonymousv (not verified) on Thu Apr 03, 2008 08:51 PM PDT

It is normal to be prejudiced.

...and in a country like America that was born and raised on the notion of white supremacy (See manifest destiny, slavery, Jim Crow, internment of Japanese citizens...), it is normal to be prejudiced against black people. So ingrained is the idea that white culture is right, or at least the benchmark for all other cultures, that even most black Americans devalue blackness (See "the doll test" as one example. See black hack comedians and their "black people are always late, broke, triflin'..." schtick as another.) So white America, modern prejudice is not all your fault.

Now that I have said that, now that I have absolved you of personal guilt, can we have the conversation about racmore that everyone keeps referring to?...more below:

//dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/3/8419/72054/...


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Beautifully expressed

by Anonymousk (not verified) on Thu Apr 03, 2008 02:13 PM PDT

Beautifully expressed emotions. God Bless your remarkable father! He had sown a seed in you and you're spreading other seeds that will bear fruit as delicious as you...lol

Mixed marriages are the best, especially, for Iraian woman...I love my non-Iranian husband...We've been together for 15 years...

I wouldn't have it any other way...And I don't care much for those with "stirring" problem either!!!


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Tahirih

I can relate to you soooooooooo much!

by Tahirih on Thu Apr 03, 2008 01:36 PM PDT

I did marry my Bahai husband over many many years ago!!!(I am not giving the date,since it gives away my age!!!).I was a muslim and he was a bahai,we were univirsity sweethearts.Through out the years in the land of freedom and socializing with Iranians of muslim origin (the ones that protest to be free of prejudice!)I have noticed that their behaviour is very guarded towards me for marrying a bahai and becoming a bahai.They are fine  with friends that have been born into a bahai family ,but with me it has always been cool,and judgmental.

once one of their elders called me aside and gave me the tip as how to get reall!! frist hand information about this thing!!

So sir I can totally relate to you ,always there has been an elephant in the room and never spoken!

I am glad to see that your marriage has lasted for a long time too,mixed marriages  are challenging but wonderfull.

most respect,

Tahirih


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Awesome... I'm speechless

by Tonya (not verified) on Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:42 PM PDT

It will take me a few moments to regain my composure.  I'm going to print this so I can read and re-read and re-re-read!  You've touched on so many vital issues... both emotional and social.  It's interesting getting a birds-eye view of the situation from the "other side".  Being a non-Iranian wife of an Iranian male has been almost entirely a positive experience for me.  Family and friends alike have been extremely open and loving to me.  And unless Persians are the ultimate bullshitters... I believe it to be geniune.  The only hateful comments would have to be taken in context and the source considered.  I don't know if you're new to iranian.com but you'll be one of the reasons I return.  The response to your articles is encouraging.  Bless you!


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Anonymouse

Bold font must be a site error.

by Anonymouse on Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:37 PM PDT

My comment is bold too and I didn't bold it.


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Anonymouse

Well said and good subject

by Anonymouse on Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:36 PM PDT

Dear CD I've also often noticed that those who stereotype and often try to distance themselves from someone or something by stereotyping are often the ones who fit in that stereotype.

For example here in our discussions or elsewhere when we see other Iranians we often see some of them use a lot of phrases like "us Iranians" eat onions with our kabobs or we don't treat women right and stuff like that.  I have noticed these are the same people who eat onions as appetizers and dessert and talk to women like a pimp.  They just say they don't because they do it in hiding.

Here in US we can't escape hate. In this article from CNN this racist guy has a license for life to have his KKK store and the owner who is a Civil Rights activit and black has a hard time kicking him out of his own store! It doesn't help matters when Bush fans the flames of hate by authorizing torture and continue with his failed policies in the middle east.  So as long as he is in office there is no hope of any change in the mood.

So some of us see that and think in the land of the freedom it is fashionable to be hateful and regurgitate Bush's nonsense that we all know about.  And most importantly they think if no one listens to them we are ignorant and bunch of idiots and mullahs.  Stereotyping the people when they are the ignorants and mullahs. 

I give you a hint.  Everytime you see in our conversations a lot of references to "IRI" be very skeptical and know that you are dealing with bunch of people who tend to look down on everyone.  Tend to make fun of reason and change, while they advertise for change.  I'm not in favor of IRI, just note for you for future reference.

PS, halfway through your article the font is turning to bold.  You may want to fix that.


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