VIEW

Re: Iranian-

We both know that we cannot convince eath other, so yes there is no point in arguing. But that's ok. People who disagree can and should be able to have peaceful co-existance.

The reason why I may seem so "anti-Islam" (which I am not), is because Islam is an imposing religion. It imposes its belief onto others and it does not allow other beliefs to grow. I don't want to destroy or harm Islam, I don't even care about Islam, what I want is Islam to let me live and worship what I beleive in freely.

Just recently, the IRI passed a law in which if a moselm turns away from Islam, he can be punished. So those like me, who are NOT against Islam, gradually find themselves in a position that they HAVE to be against it, in order to defend their freedom.

The root of the problem is not me or the likes of me.

Jamshid

Again, I don't know why you keep doing it but you are mixing some facts with fabrications.

Qu'ran does not say kill the infidels, but says to defend yourself IF some infidels attack to destroy Islam. Not just go out and kill infidels. In old Arabia Islam originally started by turning infidels and Idol Worshippers into Muslims. Infidels are human beings too and many of them are good people.

It also says to be kind to your wife in words like "How do you expect to be with her (sleep with her) at night if you treat her badly?"

Stoning or any other torture is against Islam. But like other people from other religions, some Muslims disobey their religion too.

They say in Saudi Arabia if you drop your wallet with money in it, you can walk back and there is a good chance you can find it on the street that you dropped it untouched! I guess amputations might sound disgusting but they do keep evil in check most of the time.

 There is much more we can argue here but do you agree with me that there is no point in that? So as I mentioned before please believe as you will and I believe as I do.

Good night.

Re: Iranian-

You are wrong. The reason why there is oppostion to Islam among Iranians is not "racism", as you indicated.

Racism has nothing to do with it. I am not happy nor proud that Arabs conquered Iran 1400 years ago, but that's all in the past. Today, I consider Arabs to be just like all other human beings. I had many Arab khuzestani friends, and they were all good and decent Iran loving people.

The problem with Islam are two things. Two things that no moslem can help it.

1. There are many verses in Koran that commands moslems to amputate limbs for certain crimes, and to kill the infidels. Other verses allow women from defeated tribes to be taken as war prizes. or being beaten to discipline them, or consider them half of a man. There are verses that command moslems to kill "morteds". The list goes on.

Buy these by themselves are not the problem. The above combined with the following becomes a problem:

2. There are many verses in Koran that clearly indicates Mohammad was the last prophet, and other verses that clearly states that Allah's commands in Koran are not subject to modification nor interpretation. They must be obeyed as is for all times.

1+2 means moslems are stucked. For example, when the IRI mollahs allow amputation or stoning, what choices do they have as true moslems? They can either disobey the direct command of Allah in these regards, or obey it as they were commanded to. They have chosen to obey it. According to Koran, they have done the "right" thing by obeying.

Koran does not allow for free and liberal interpretation of its verses. It does not allow for any modifications as that would be even worst. It does not allow for a future prophet with new commands either. So moslems are stucked with a book from 1400 years ago that they must consider to be "perfect".

This is why in the future, Islam will eventually decline and be replaced with other religions. Mohammad was not thinking about this when he decided to make Islam so rigid. This is the self-destructive nail in Islam's coffin, and passage of time will strike this nail in the coffin.

Racism has nothing to do with these issues.

re: Jamshid

The reason there is opposition to Islam is mostly due to racism. The old Persian-Arab hate dilema. Once that is cleared away, like the racism whites had toward blacks, then Islam will also be more popular among all Iranians. Also IRI is a theocratic state which gives some people like yourself an excuse to hate Islam.

Islam will not go away. If I tried to explain it to you why, I don't think you would understand. So you believe what you want to believe and I have my beliefs.

Re: Iranian-

A bunch of "foreign based" Iranians DID choose a new religion for Iran, and not only you have no objections to it, you are even "proud" of it.

I am refering to 1400 years ago. Remember Salman Farsi et all? It happened then with Zoroastrism, it is happening now with Islam. For you, it was good then, so it must be good now too.

It's tough luck for you, but you'll have to live with it.

P.S. The primary reason why Iranians are leaving Islam at an unprecedented rate, is people like YOU. You and your way of thinking are serving OUR cause. This is not your intention, but you ARE contributing and helping. Many thanks.

re: Pouyan

You ARE the hypocrisy. 98% of Iranians are Muslim and most of them are proud of it. So if you don't like it, leave this site so you don't have to see my Avatar.

If you think that a bunch of foreign based Iranians can chose a new religion for Iran, you are dreaming.

R.By Iranian

The hypocrisy with your likes is the paradoxical avatar and name you use to defend Islam while Islam and all related concepts provoke an anti Iranian feeling.
I suggest you to spare "by Iranian" and the the map of Iran for your proposals.

Tolerance, objectivity and compassion......

are beginning to lack on this thread. I think some of the people on this thread have clearly illustrated that people will choose to believe what they want.

However, we all have to keep in mind to respect each others views. There has to be room in this world for all religious/nonreligious views.

The first step has to begin with ourselves.

Solh va Doosti (paz a vosotros)

Nadia

Hadiths Rewriting: no

Hadiths Rewriting: no way

//www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Art...

An article on IslamOnline, which pours cold water on the suggestion that the Hadiths are to be revised, to remove misogynistic or other hateful material.

"Make no mistake, we are not after modifying or revising the Hadith," Mehmet Gormez, deputy director of the religious affairs authority Diyanet and supervisor of the project, told IslamOnline.net in a phone interview.

"What we are actually doing is re-classifying, re-categorizing the Hadith and translating it into Turkish, no more no less."
...
He shrugged off media suggestions that Turkey was re-writing the Hadith and creating a new Islam.

"They made too much fuss and took the project out of its real context.

"We are neither fashioning a new Islam nor dare to alter the fixtures maxims of Islam," Gormez said emphatically.

"The Western media have read what are doing from a Christian perspective and understood it in line with their Christian and Western cultures."

When it comes to Islam, Gormez said, the Western media is used to focusing on women's status and jihad.

Several British newspapers on Wednesday, February 27, ran stories on the Turkish project .

The Guardian headlines the story as "Turkey strives for 21st century form of Islam."

A day earlier the BBC reported the project under the headline "Turkey in radical revision of Islamic texts."

Gormez also refuted claims they would and edit out some hadiths, especially about women.

"No Muslim in the right mind would dare delete any hadith or tamper with the Prophet's heritage."

Oh well.

To: Anonymouss

The burning smell of your rear-end travelled accross the world. So which one of the these human trash are you?

Charlatan, drunkard, Satanist or Mofsed; or maybe you are all of them!

Muslims are on their guard from the low-lives like you. You will not be able to make lies about them and then exterminate them like your Nazi buddies did with the Jewish people.

Muslims will stand by their

Muslims will stand by their religion for all times. We will defend it from charlatans, Mofseds, drunkards, Satanists and any other individual, groups or countries who make lies about it and intend to destroy it.

If muslims continue their violence and bigoted views of others, then they will pay the consequeces. There is Tsunami of anti-muslim movements is sprining up across the world...THe muslim bullys will not win this fight because Allah is not on the side of filth that Islam has to offer to the world.

Re: yet another ex Muslim (not verified)

Muslims will stand by their religion for all times. We will defend it from charlatans, Mofseds, drunkards, Satanists and any other individual, groups or countries who make lies about it and intend to destroy it.

No matter what Muslims say or do to please the types mentioned above, they will not change their mind. The nicer the Muslims act, the more angry and savage those types mentioned above will become. They continue with their lies and sinister plans.

So go ahead and shoot.

Anonymousii, still don't get it, do you

What truth dummy?

You mixing facts and lies together. This way, someone who knows a few things about the subject thinks everything you say is right an is misguided.

You are neither a follower of Christ, Moses nor Abraham.

Since you are lying about Islam, at least have the guts to register and then tell your 'truth' you lying coward.

Open season when you carry a sign saying Shoot me!

If it did not limit freedom of expression
If Islamists in power were not so corrupt
If its history was not tarnished with genocide, and discrimination? Going back all the way to the founders.
If it did not put so much emphasis on Sharia being a universal set of laws to be obeyed without question, and did not believe in eventual World dominance.
If Quran with its limited constitutions, and contradictions was not so much used for doctrine of civil society, leaving abusing or misguided clergy to come up with Haidth interpretations or silly laws about selling raped donkeys?
If the otherwise law biding, hardworking Muslims were not so helpless in stopping extremists controlling the helm?
If it did not try to find excuses for Muhammad's lust, paedophilia, active profiteering from theft and slavery.
Not that those other religions do not have their share of crime but in this century this one carries the sign “Shoot me”!
The only thing amazing is how this religion has lasted as long as it has!
The only danger is that given a backlash those silent hardworking Muslims would suffer.
Why would an enlightened Iranian living in a free society and access to historical facts want to defend what is otherwise a backward and dead way of looking at the World?

Don't you ever decide what

Don't you ever decide what God does is stupid. You and the likes of you are NOT the ones to decide whether Mohammad is a prophet of God or not!

Typical reaction of a muslim!

Firstly, I did not talk about Moses.

Second, The record on your prophet speaks volume. He waged wars of expansion and raided commercial Caravans. Was involved in pedophilia and polygamy. The record is on display for everyone to see. You can't escape it. The truth hurts...I know.

Hey stupid Anonymousii

So according to you, when Moses killed the Egyptian stone cutter, that makes Moses a murderer with blood on his hands?

Do you really think that God needs your approval or your opinion on how he decides what his prophets should or should not do?

Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammad where four different Prophets of God with entirely different approches to guide the people to the light.

Don't you ever decide what God does is stupid. You and the likes of you are NOT the ones to decide whether Mohammad is a prophet of God or not!

Christians need to colonize

Christians need to colonize and Christianize others by force. For example Mexico and how cruelly it was conquered by the Spaniards among other European countries.

Jesus Christ would have certainly disapproved of this kind of behavior in his name and in the name of his religion. However, Mohammad, the Muslim's prophet and his prophets et al directly participated in waging wars of expansion. Jesus did not kill or hurt a soul. How could any prophet of God have blood on his hand? I think God is not that stupid...

Anonymousii what about ..........

the Christians need to  colonize and Christianize others by force. For example Mexico and how cruelly it was conquered by the Spaniards among other European countries.

Does the Spanish Inquisition also ring a bell?

 The point is that colonization happened by many religions and countries not just Islam.

Also, why don't you register and blog about the labor problems you mentioned in your posted comment? Since, you are so passionate about it. Only you could do the subject justice. Do please, consider it.

Solh va Doosti (paz a vosotros)

Nadia

Christian Crusaders

Christian Crusaders were barbarians from Europe who attacked and murdered Muslims and Jews unjustly. They had a lower level of culture, life and technology compared to the Muslims and Jews they attacked and murdered.

Programmer craig at least...

we agree to disagree. :o)

Neither one of us will change our point of view on Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

I also know many Christians that do believe in the Old Testament.  They memorize verses from both the Old and the New Testament. As children the Ten Commandments, Genesis 1:1 (In the beginning God created........) and John 3:16 are the first verses they are taught.

I wish you the best always. :o)

Solh va Doosti (paz a vosotros)

Nadia

Christian Crusade and

Christian Crusade and destruction of Islamic lands, un

They were not Islamic lands. In fact, none of those countries, Iran, IRaq, Syria, Tunisia, Egypt, Parts of India, Lebanon were Islamic. They became Islamic because of Islamic expansionims and Islamic Imperialism or you might call it 7th century Jihadism.

Islamic Imperialism
//www.city-journal.org/html/rev2006-06-04td.h...

History of Islam in Christian Land
//www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?i...

Re: Anonymousii

I know what you are saying. I am not praising any individual people or groups or countries. If the point is that wrongs are being committed under Islam then please consider the unjust Christian Crusade and destruction of Islamic lands, unjust actions by Zionists that give a bad name to Jewish people, genocide of Bosnian Muslims by Christian Serbs and many more.

One thing is certain. No matter how much hate I see from individuals, groups or countries against Islam, my opinion about good Christians, Jews and other people and my respect for all of them will not change.

Ibn Warraq's new book Ibn

Ibn Warraq's new book

Ibn Warraq is the highly acclaimed author of Why I Am Not a Muslim and the editor of The Origins of the Koran, The Quest for the Historical Muhammad, What the Koran Really Says, and Leaving Islam.

//www.amazon.com/Defending-West-Critique-Edwa...

His new book, "Defending the West: A Critique of Edward Said's Orientalism"

debunks the greatest victim-mentality producer of the muslim world, Edward Said.

The book is the first systematic critique of Edward Said's influential work, Orientalism, a book that for almost three decades has received wide acclaim, voluminous commentary, and translation into more than fifteen languages. Said’s main thesis was that the Western image of the East was heavily biased by colonialist attitudes, racism, and more than two centuries of political exploitation. Although Said’s critique was controversial, the impact of his ideas has been a pervasive rethinking of Western perceptions of Eastern cultures, plus a tendency to view all scholarship in Oriental Studies as tainted by considerations of power and prejudice.
In this thorough reconsideration of Said’s famous work, Ibn Warraq argues that Said’s case against the West is seriously flawed. Warraq accuses Said of not only willfully misinterpreting the work of many scholars, but also of systematically misrepresenting Western civilization as a whole. With example after example, he shows that ever since the Greeks Western civilization has always had a strand in its very makeup that has accepted non-Westerners with open arms and has ever been open to foreign ideas. The author also criticizes Said for inadequate methodology, incoherent arguments, and a faulty historical understanding. He points out, not only Said’s tendentious interpretations, but historical howlers that would make a sophomore blush.
Warraq further looks at the destructive influence of Said's study on the history of Western painting, especially of the 19th century, and shows how, once again, the epigones of Said have succeeded in relegating thousands of first-class paintings to the lofts and storage rooms of major museums.
An extended appendix reconsiders the value of 18th- and 19th-century Orientalist scholars and artists, whose work fell into disrepute as a result of Said’s work.

Iranian- I have a question

Iranian-

I have a question for you? What is a "Western" way of life an "Eastern" way of life???

I assume by "Eastern way of Life" you mean, pedophilia, misogynism, sexim, racism, intolerance of others and minorities and treating them as second class citizens, exterminating your ideological opponents (bahai), Stoning, honor killings, eye gouging, limb amputating, wife beating, judging others, cheating, lieing, polygamy, stabbing, are considered Eastern way of life.

You think because you go to mosque and you don't dring or you pray to God 5 times a day, you're automatically a holier than thou human being while practicing all kinds of atrocities against others?

Iranian-: Your reaction

Iranian-:

Your reaction seems "mildly" irratated. I think you would benefit from finding out a little more about Islam in general, especially shia Islam and the Khomeini version of it practiced by the Islamic Republic. Then Try googling Dhimmitude, infidels, Islamic Imperialism, Islamic Supremacism, Islamic expansionim, and Pope Urban II On Islam, Islamic brotherhood, Khomeinism and "Death to America" (Death to those who don't agree with Islam), and so on...you will get a better picture why the world is against this religion.

all who are crying for tolerance

people like hassankachaal are the reason many take offense with moslems!!
he is fadaii Islam and and bent on hate and destruction rather than anything good. the good moslems need to take charge and restrain this type of behavior in order to provide an environment and opportunity for tolerance!!!

New and improved Islam, Got Some!

Worse than Islam that as a back assward religion has decimated the lifes of billions of people is the attempt by west to keep this beast alive.
There are new attempts in Turkey, Iran , London and Washington to create a new and improved version of this crap.
Sadri, Nasr, Aslan , Ebadi and the rest of the sisters in MIT and elsewhere are very busy regenarating this crap and dumping it on the moslem masses...

For some fresh ideas go to :
nahidroxan.blogspot.com
said-saman.blogspot.com

Javid Iran

Islam!

Thank you for the article! Islam, like other religions, can be practised as the vast majority of Muslims want; tolerance and peace and compassion, or as the minoryt want; bigotry, improsition and extremism. It is not okay, and extremely harmful and unproductive, to attack Islam. The vast majority of Muslims are good people and many of the practises that the author refers to have nothing to do with Islam.

Shameful hatred of Islam is going strong in the West

To bring Ayaan Hirsi Alit as a speaker to talk about Islam is like bringing the Al-Qaida member Adam Gadahn to speak about Christians and Jews.

Even though the Western world knows that the great majority of Muslims are peace loving and against A-Qaida and other forms of terrorism, they still has no shame to enjoy bashing the religion of Islam.

They say "Why do they hate us?" where it is in fact they themselves are the one's who hate Islam, Muslims, Arabs, Persians and anything that is different from a 'Western' way of life.

Why is nobody blogging about

Why is nobody blogging about this:

The regime in Iran is cracking down on organized labor.
12 union leaders are sentenced to 91 days in jail and 10 lashes for holding a protest last May Day.
Radio Farda reported:

Sedigh Amjadi, a worker from Sanandaj in Kurdistan province was subject to 10 lashes on February 16, 2008 for participating in the May Day celeberations two years ago. He was also find an amount of 200,000 tomans ($2000). Mr. Amjadi along with 12 other workers were arrested and imprisoned during the International Labour Day. Two of them received 30 months in jail and the rest of them were sentenced to 91 days in prison and 10 lashes each.
The floggings were condemned widely across Iran. Several activists have condemned the actions by the regime.
Rooz News reported:

Five days after a flogging sentence was carried out in the case of Kurdish union activist Seddigh ‎Amjadi, two more union activists, Fares Goviliyan and Abbas Andariani, also received lashes in ‎a Sanandaj prison. ‎

Flogging sentences were first carried out in the cases of labor activists who had attended last ‎year's May Day rally, and were condemned widely across Iran, especially in the province of ‎Kurdistan. ‎

Nobel Peace Prize winner Shirin Ebadi, vice president of the Syndicate of Workers of Tehran ‎and Suburbs Bus Company Ebrahim Madadi, spokesperson and central committee member of ‎the Dismissed and Unemployed Workers' Union Jafar Azimzadeh, and several prominent human ‎rights organizations and labor unions across the country have condemned the judiciary's flogging ‎sentences.
Maybe if we sit and talk with the mullahs we can change all of this?

//www.roozonline.com/english/archives/2008/02...

//iranlabourwatch.net/DisplayArticle.aspx?ID=...