ELECTIONS

David ET: Instead of waxing

David ET: Instead of waxing in generalities, why don't you reply directly to the specific concerns that have been raised. If you can't convince us through reasoned debate, how do you expect us to take your advice seriously when you can't even in theory refute those points.

Please do answer each points and if you can't refute them logically, don't expect us to buy into to your argument.

Farah Rusta

While the IRI's repressive machinery ruthlessly suffocates any protest voice in iran, Mullahs's stooges, IRI's apologists, abject chameleons, and medicre attention seekers try on this site appropriate methods to water down the nature of Mullahs' regime. Their common aim is to reduce the intensity of protest outputs by distracting the readers from Iran's real political landscape.

In this perspective, the plight of people under the plague of the IRI is grotesquely reduced to some factional differences within the regime. Here, the supporters of the plague attempt at changing the protest attitude of readers into a reverse effect or in a direction opposite to what the real problems and political aspirations of Iranians are.

Keep your protest voice up and be sure a great number of readers support you!

On Solidarity, boycott and other issues

First,
I would like to make one thing clear. There seems to a number of paranoiacs and
attention seekers on this site who constantly think they are being chased by
others and in making such noises they try to attract attention. I am sorry
that I have to disappoint them but my time and thoughts are much more precious
to be spent on such trivial pursuits! 
Show evidence or keep your peace for good.

Second,
I am going to address a few points:

Dear  Koroush S

I
thank you sincerely for having to put up with so much claptrap, as expressed by
certain commenter, for elucidating my points of view so nicely. You understood
the message in comments clearly and I am sorry that you became a target of
harsh criticism and at times abusive remarks for simply rephrasing that
message. I accept all the blame and am sorry for any upset it may have caused
you.

Dear Mr Kadivar,

Your
idea of forming a Solidarity movement in the style of the Polish movement of
the same name back in the 1980’s is very interesting but in my view it is alien
to the Iranian psyche. We have never been a united nation and, as Hadi
Khorsandi, once said, the only time we had some sort of solidarity, we chose
Khomeini as our leader! What is important to mention about Polish Solidarity is
that since its formation in 1980 and until 1989 they had shown their power
through a massive boycott of the local and general elections in Poland.  Since the entry of Gorbachev in 1985 to the
leadership of the USSR and his forceful drive to reform both in Russia and in
its satellite countries like Poland the situation began to change. It was not
until a number of elections boycotts by the Solidarity in which, due to the low
attendance, the unpopularity of the Polish system was exposed to the world,
that semi-free elections held in 1989 and Solidarity was allowed to field its
candidates who won many parliamentary and senate seats.

FR

"Frozen in Time"

 The decision to boycott the elections 4 years ago was wrong. I was wrong ! So was Shirin Ebadi who also announced that would not vote 4 years ago. So were many moderates who did not vote. That decision resulted in loss of some basic rights that was fought for. Coming out of Khatami era and while ahead moderates overestimated their position and presumed that the people are ready for a bigger revolt but that was not the case and it back lashed. Today they know better not to take anything gained for granted. Never retreat while in a battle not an inch that was hard fought for.

Okay Koroush, there's a lot of stuff on these two posts of yours

so I think to make things easier I'll try to streamline this. We need to go back to the root of this subthread in which you find my comments so offensive. The root is Farah's post to David right on top of where he annoucned that this girl did not get a stay of execution and he'd have to leave the thread to help her. It was called Would Delara Vote and reads thus:

If she could vote, who would she vote for? Would she have approved of voting under the constitution whose judiciary is sentencing her to death? Which one of the major presidential candidates has openly spoken against her impending execution? Would she, could she, trust an electoral system to be honest in "counting" the votes when the other component of the same system has gone against its own laws and senetenced her to death before she was 18? 

Mr ET you are not a fool. But you are a fraud. If Delara Darabi is executed her boold will be on the hands all who vote in this election.

For her sake I hope they'd be spared this infamy. 

___________________

I think there are a couple of things we have to reach an agreement on if any further dialog on this issue is going to be fruitful at all. We have to agree 1) that the first part, not boldfaced, is fine, even eloquent. I believe that you concur.

2) We have to agree that the second part in boldface is disgusting.

Now do you agree or don't you agree that what Farah Rusta said to David under these circumstances is disgusting?

If yes, let me know, and fine, I'll go on to the rest of the conversation..

If no, please explain very clearly why not.

Koroush S

Let me explain it to you once more. This is what I am having to put up with Ms. R at the moment. She is following me around on certain blogs and posting the following which is why the last thing I want is to be on the same comment as her. Why am I being insulted this way because I defended three Iranians on this web site that she was attacking.

I have already complained to JJ about her behavior.

 Good day!

******************

by rosie is roxy is roshan on Fri Apr 17, 2009 02:54 AM PDT

Sarah Lime thread and then told that guy on David's not to refer to you and me in the same post?

Are you adding another "S" to your first three?

schizophrenic on top of smug, sanctimonious, and shakespeare?

goeth, my sour. get thee to a nunnery. to a nunnery go.

Omigod, Darius! That is like..

f-ing A, man! I'd read your post about the coincidence but i hadn't been able to read the longer one because of this, well, ya know, sub-thread I've been involved in. And just now I got to take a look at it and I can't bellieve you were talking about Iranian Solidarity!

And I dunno if you'll understand me but I'm pretty sure David will. C-space is an energetic realm, energy with capital E. And when synchronicities like that start happening here, it's ..well..may the force is with you. I mean let us not forget we are right here, right now sitting in the matrix of the planetary mind.  We are the Borg, we are the children.

And well, DK, I hope that wasn't too esoteric for you, I have no idea how you feel about those things, but to put it in its simplest terms:

Kewl. 

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQftkgrzLR8

ps yep it's our very own q. LOL

Natalia.

Natalia.

"let's work on that premise" ???????????????????
"Appeared to be an intelligent guy"????? I seriously believe that somebody should take it easy.

I appreciate that you took notice of my comment on that blog or whatever it made you feel, but please, by all means refrain from analyzing my level of common sense and intelligence for me. As a commenter who has no clue about another commenter, you are making way too intimate and personal comments.

I included you with rosie in the same line, not because i wanted to directly insult you, but since i was making a point to both of you, it seemed more appropriate that way.

That was exactly the point!! I believe she is making the exact same point that delara would not have voted under the circumstances that the regime had created for her.
And here you were making all that noise about why she got singled out whether she was eligible to vote or not!!
Do you understand her thinking now:)?

Kouroush S

The first time I noticed you on this web site was on that relationship blog. You appeared to be an intelligent and common sense type of individual. So lets work on that premise.

Koroush S comment:

Natalia

Please don't fall into the same trap as ROsie. You guys need to pay closer attention. Of course she has more to worry about, but had she voted in support of the type of system that has made all kinds of incorrect accusations against her, with a trial far from being fair? ...

My response:

I would like to first request that you extend me the courtesy of not including me with Ms. R on any subject lines or comments.

 I am not sure if you are aware that Ms. R and I do not get along and in fact have differing points of views on many issues.

Now let us analyze this particular section of your comment:

had she voted in support of the type of system that has made all kinds of incorrect accusations against her, with a trial far from being fair? ...

Kouroush S was she even old enough ever before she was sentenced to death row to even vote? How old do you have to be to be able to vote in Iran? If she was never old enough.......why is she being singled out about the voting or not voting?

I keep asking questions because I don't understand this logic. Plain and simple.

 Now, I can tell you that common sense dictates that if it was me regardless of whether I was old enough to vote before or after being sentenced to death row there is no way in HELL that I would vote for such a government.

Hence, why I don't understand the way of thinking in Farah Rusta's comment. No offense to this particular individual.

Since, when does the oppressed want to see the oppresser continue to rule.

This is my humble opinion on the matter.

 PS: I don't like the current government in Iran. However, I have always felt that it is Iranians right to decide what is best for them and Iran.

Dear Max, or someone .. ps Koroush

I found your analysis fascinating. I'd like to ask you something at risk of sounding naive as I'm not Iranian. You wrote:

For us Iranians living abroad, the main focus is political change, human rights and the foreign policy of Iran, whereas for the large majority of Iranians, the main concerns are the economy, job creation, inflation, corruption and law and order.

Well, I could certainly see how the priorities you list for those within Iran are really big priorities and you're right as far as I've seen here, they are lower here in expatria.com than the first ones you mentioned. However I find it simply astonishing to hear that human rights and foreign policy aren't also up there with the others within Iran. I mean, don't people there feel that the current geopolitical shift will influence the economy (and job creation and inflation, which are really part of the economy, and which in turn affect law and order due to increased employment). I mean, foreign trade, sanctions, etc. And also haven't they been equally concerned as the people here have been with the (admittedly spurious) nuke issue-- Israel's yapping (today denied by Peres btw) and so on? Do you mean to say that while Jerusalem Post has an entire daily section called "Iran Threat" along with local, international, entertainment, etc., the Iranians in Iran are savvy enough to know that it's all been (IMHO) just a red herring anyway?

And as well with human rights, I mean, well obviously there's the million signatures campaign and Amir Kabir and so much crackdown lately...I wonder if a distinction could be made in terms of the priorities of the better and the lesser educaated, looking at the whole smorgesbord you just laid out. Well I guess well-off people, who are educated, would be less concerned with the economy than uneducated poor people (which is not to say that I don't know about the severe under and unemployment rate among the educated, but I think you follow my drift...)

And also assuming you're right overall (I do) is this an observation that you find most expats are not generally aware of, and if so, why would that be so?

I would really appreciate a reply. Thanks,
Roxane

ps Koroush, I didn't answer you because I thought you should get a really considered reply, and at this point I really don't think I should right now because I've wound up hogging the thread way too much, and especially this particular issue (although I do believe it's at bottom very relevant to the article's topic) has wound up hogging it too. So I'll wait til tomorrow to reply, if you don't mind).

Of course I am right

Old timer.

This is an open forum and for people to come here with an agenda and to point fingers, is and should be pretty normal, so long as it does not cross the lines of character assasination and personal insult.
I or no one else should have to agree with whatever position you hold, correct? and is it fair to lable this as "causing fricion" if we do disagree with you?

You should perhaps visit disneyland.com if you want totally, frictionless discussion.

First of all it would be nice if people would get back to...OT

the elections, I thought...

and now as for you OT, in brief:

wow, like clockwork, Old "Timer". All the paranoiacs are coming out of the woodwork with bells and whistles. What a surprise. And of course, they're incognito...sssssh, someone may be listening..

Sorry folks, if anyone wants to understand this...strange... subthread, it starts with Farah Dusta's (unregistered) love letter to David  Whatever.

Kourosh is right

How would we know who Farah Rusta is and what her political views are and what agenda she might have.

So far all I have seen is someone who jumps on everyone that she doesn't agree with and point fingers at people calling them traitors, IRI agents, sympathizers etc...

She's here with an agenda and that is to cause friction.

Come to think of it, she sounds very much like someone else who was kicked out of here and came back with a different but similar sounding non-iranian name. I guess a more Iranian name is more convenient for her since now nobody is asking if she's iranian or a zion.

WHAT A COINCIDENCE ? READ THIS ...;0)

From Today's BBC:

Twenty years ago, on 17 April, Poland's communists agreed to hold elections and to allow the Solidarity movement to take part.

The first democratic elections in the Soviet bloc resulted in the eventual collapse of the communist regime - but for most of the 1980s, Solidarity had been an illegal organisation whose members faced a constant risk of arrest.

Oh, please Parvaneh, (ET, one small addition)

do you know how many blogs David has written about the imminent necessity of overthrowing the Islamic Republic and delineating concrete steps (realistic or not, that's not the point) to create a grassroots movement to do so? Urgently and frequently. Even up to last winter. The ONLY other regular blogger I remember who ever did that was Ali Mostafi, at least in a pacifist way without foreign intervention. And Ali hardly ever writes anymore.

Relatively healthy people change with the times. The entire geopolitical scene has begun to shift since the election of Obama. More, less, that's not the point. The fact is it has shifted.

And so along with the shifting of the universe ("All is flux"-Heraklitus the Greek) one shifts one's perspectives in rhythm with it because one's perspectives are only perspectives because they view things outside of oneself. If one's perspectives never change, then they are not perspectives at all, just refrigerator freezers in one's ossified brain.

Well, maybe geopolitics isn't the shift that made David shift, but something shifted and so his views did too. It really IS that simple, Parvaneh.

Maybe David will change his mind about elections again tomorrow. Maybe in five minutes. Maybe in five years. Or nevver. But one thing's for sure, he will change, he will evolve. And if you keep up with this kind of stuff, you won't. And that would be very...sad.

Don't you think so?

oh and ps, people, no I'm not monopolizing or baby-sitting the thread while David goes out to help Delaria for his nefarious agenda. It's just that it's very important to me. It just encapsulates so many things I've been trying to say in the past couple of weeks.

No. rosie. I was talking

No. rosie.

I was talking about the trap of having to read your long and at times meaningless analyses. Gee. I wonder which of those three types you described, you belonged to! If it was so obvious then what took you so long to Get it?
I do and always will object to the term paranoid being used by YOU regarding iranians who make comments. That is absolute BS. I read farah's post and i did not find anything at all paranoia-related with it. And, I never ardently defended her, that is such exaggeration and i never considered your take as being awful. Again, I don't want you to make the wrong conclusion that i am defending Her, But you do not know enough about her and her background to denounce her as "persecuted" by IRI. How much do you know about her political past? would it not be safe to say that you are merely resorting to surmise? Criticizing someone is not the same as persecuting that person.

I really have no interest in Understanding irrelevant and incorrectly applied psycological principles. Thank you but no thank you.
No. I am not gonna implore to farah. Be real please. she is within the realm of her rights to criticize. so sorry. Mr. david is, i am sure, able to concentrate on what is appropriate with or without farah's objections.

David ET & the Beauty Queen

David ET might be working with Nazanin Afshin-Jam, who is a true advocate of human rights in Iran, but I have never seen Nazanin lobbying to legitimize the Islamic Republic regime and to encourage Iranians to go and vote in a phoney election (or better said 'selection')!

There IS no such thing as a paramount '"but", Farah---.edited

It's an oxymoron. Don't you understand that?   This blog is secondary for David right now. Don't you grasp that? It's clear as day. There is no but and it wouldn't be the worst path for others to take either.To save one by one.

What is it you don't understand, farah? what is this BUT? You calledd David publicly  a fraud in the name of Delara and said what would Delara think, and David gave you some of her deepest thoughts, not on exactly that topic, but her deepest thoughts RIGHT NOW nonetheless. You'd used her to "expose" David. And now you're relegating her to secondary importance--sorry, but you are, there is no such animal as a "paramount but"---and you're doing it with the same agenda. to "expose" David. But of what?

What is it you don't understand? It is YOURSELF you don't understand. You have a fixation on David because you don't want to look into yourself, probably for reasons similar to the ones I suggested below. Don't you understand?  David could be a parking meter, David could be an elephant, Anything. Anything at all. It's not ABOUT David for you. It's about finding a visible target outside of yourself. Look at what you just wrote, would you, please?:

And now David ET and his misguided friends echo the same words as uttered by this arch criminal and the chief protector of the Islamic regime, the same David ET who is "trying" to save the lives of the victims of the same regime that Rafsenjani is urging us to save

You put "trying" in quotation marks.

Farah, let's make a deal. You try to look further inside yourself and I will do the same. Starting now.

Deal?

Saving Delara is paramount but ...

... not by legitimizing the very system that is about to send her to the gallows. Hashemi Rafsenjani, in a recent interview said: "the worst thing that may happen to us is if the people do not vote in this election." And now David ET and his misguided friends echo the same words as uttered by this arch criminal and the chief protector of the Islamic regime, the same David ET who is "trying" to save the lives of the victims of the same regime that Rafsenjani is urging us to save by participating in its elections show piece. Note, that Rafsenjani is not saying who the voters should vote for. He is ONLY concerned with the masses of voters being seen and filmed by the international media lining up to vote. Who comes out of the ballot boxes is not Rafsenjani's concern - he can and he will determin what the outcome is going to be. "Just vote", says Rafsenjani, - he will take care of the rest.

David ET and Rafsenjani are urging the nation to do the same thing: to show their participation in the electoral system that is by nature against the most basic principles of democracy and human rights. But Rafsenjani does not claim to wrok to save the life of Delara Darabi - David ET does.

Now you tell me which one is being true to his convictions?

 ps - Thanks KuroushS for your kind words.

FR

For us Iranians living

For us Iranians living abroad, the main focus is political change, human rights and the foreign policy of Iran, whereas for the large majority of Iranians, the main concerns are the economy, job creation, inflation, corruption and law and order. These are not issues where a reformist is necessary better than any other candidate. I am not saying that because I think a hardliner is better, but because the Iranian system (overall) is concentrated in the hands of specific groups and people, so a better political affiliation (as we understand it, a more moderate, more liberal, less hardliner…) is not necessarily the key to success. Other criteria matter more, such as networking, who you know, how you deal with certain people…

At political and social levels, which are more important matters in the eyes of the exiled intellectuals, the real winners of the next elections will be the hardliners, no matter the outcome. Even if they lose the elections arithmetically, they have enough experience now to know how to handle the reformists and more importantly how to control the civil society, after 8 years of Khatami. Despite record turnouts of 70% and scores of 70%+ for Khatami and the reformsits from 1997 to 2001, we saw how the hardliners shut down hundreds of newspapers, magazines, how they barred thousands of reformists from running in various elections and how they gave superficial freedom to the youth to listen to music, to throw parties or to dress in a little more “relaxed” way, all this to keep them happy and busy with phony relationships and away from the real issues.

Also, if a reformist wins the elections, he knows very well that pushing too much will lead to a major conflict with the hardliners, so he will adopt a pragmatic line, which in turn will alienate people who voted for him and make them impatient and eventually indifferent so eventually they will boycott the 2013 elections. So in 4 years, another Ahmadinejad will become President, exactly like what happened in 2005, and reverse any positive policies carried out by his predecessor.

The simple reason is that the Supreme Leader, the parliament, the Guardian Council which filters the candidates, and the security forces are NOT neutral, but are heavily right-wing. If they were neutral, elections would mean something, but in the current conditions, there is absolutely no chance for any significant change as any voted law can be blocked by the Guardian Councul, the Supreme Leader or any other Assembly because it is not Islamic enough, any political personality can be accused of anything (we saw it with Abdollah Noori, Karbaschi...) and ultimately violent means can be used (Alireza Noori, Ganji, Hajjarian...).

This is what most pro-election people do not want to grasp: the hardliners are way too strong and elections are not a major concern for them, as they know how to deal with opposition. Change will not come from political means, but from the people, the same way it did when they threw the Shah out. it does not matter if the atmosphere is prone to it or not. Once people are fed, they are fed up!

That’s the reality, simply because the political nature of the Islamic Republic is fundamentally oppressive, one-sided and violent, and the IR will never bend to any form of opposition, unless it is pushed against the wall by a solid coalition made up of the civil society, elements from the Diaspora and a STRONG support from the international community. Something similar to the struggle that ended the Apartheid in South Africa or like Darius said, the Solidarnosc vs the Communist regime of Poland.

Ahmadinejad and the Poor

Ahmadinejad's apparent concern for the poor is his charm, demonstrated inability in delivering for the poor is his undeniable failure. With every handout he gives to a poor family he creates a few more through inflation. I believe he is strongly aware of this inability to deliver on the economy which makes him turn up the volume on the coming of Imam Mahdi and "our struggle". 24.5% inflation reported by Iran's own Central Bank in March -this is our struggle- just to mention one simple economic indicator.  

This comment relates to some of the posts made earlier below.

My reply for time being to all posts to me

NATION

by Rosie T.
09-Jun-2008
 

you are tearing

you are tearing

you are torn in two

like your nation

your beautiful nation

you are torn asunder

there are two of you

and it wounds you

so you wound others

to heal those wounds

but the battle

that rages

must be fought in you

because you

only you 

can heal your nation's wounds 

your beautiful wounded nation

is waitng for you 

nation of  Haafez

of Forough  

nation of nightengale and rose

of koroush

bahaullah

al-quarezmi 

and mossadegh

shirin ebaadi

kiarostaami

nation of you

your beautiful bleeding  nation

is waiting for beautiful you

and the final 

conflagration

must burn in you

and the forest succumb

to the flames

then the Light

willt triumph

over dark

it is foretold

new growth emergimg

far richer than ever imagined

trees of Faith

trees of Strength

of Truth

reaching out 

embracing the world with Light

and the time

it is now

and has always been now

it is here right here

this is your time Iran

Everything is Sacred

the Sacred is You

Javid Iran

I will never lose Faith in You.

________________________

Let's return to the polemics later, after we've had a little time to process this, shall we? I;m sure you know that already. When syllogisms keep butting heads with other yllogisms, it is time to find a new language.

David jan: You've been

David jan: You've been hanging out with Rosie way too much. She has clouded your judgment...

Rosie is right , we are the ones responsible

  I just read all comments . Look! You want to vote, don't want to vote? That's fine.

But please don't call sitting on our asses, going to parties and watching Satelittle TV's an attempt not to legitimize IR. The best proof that IR has to show that is legitimzed by people is that we have let them stay in power for 30 years by doing NOTHING !

And do something means ANYTHING , which is better than NOTHING, but hiding behind the fraud of an unregistered name at iranian.com and calling others fraud does not count.

and you want to know what Delara thinks? This is one of Delara's poems   :

تا زمانیکه آزادیم
آزادی  را آرمانی دست نیافتنی می پنداریم

و برای رسیدن به چیزی که قربانی زیر پای ماست؛

دستها یمان را دراز می کنیم

آزادی ! همیشه در بند نبودن معنا نمی دهد 

آی آدم ها ! بیایید بند های اندیشمان را بدریم ها

ودر بند ازادی نباشیم

زیرا که خود در "بند"  ماست 

While Free

we suppose freedom is an ideal, Unattainable.

and we reach out

for what is already sacrificed under our own feet!

Freedom!?….Never being entrapped is meaningless!

Oh People! Let us rip the chains of our thoughts

and not be captivated by freedom

for …that itself is our "captive” .. 

No Delara does not deserve to be pulled up by a crane and she is alive so far because many people did something for her while many didn't and if she is hanged in 3 days , she is as much of a victim of Islamic Republic as she is victim of our inaction.

Rosie, Rosie! persecuted perseccitpr?

What the hell is a "Presecuted perseccitpr"???
How demeaning for you to label us as paranoids. How shameful, to deride us, to denigrate us and to accuse us of being ignorant of human righst issue of our own country and instead resort to a bunch of total nonsense, mumbo jumbo, delusional, self-created, psycological terminology. At least we are a construct of HEALTHY MINDS, not diseased ones.

Selective Input from reality? I am so sorry that in your superior level of intellect, we the commoners, are deemed as scapegoaters, polarizers! Yes, we don't look at realities the way you do, and what a blessing that is. There indeed has got to be a checks and balance system at work, to keep unbalanced views and lunacy IN CHECK.

Are you still mad because you did not break the record on comments from people visiting your latest blogs?

Koroush, all I/m able to read now is your title, so I'll just

briefly answer that.

You got yourself into exactly the bed you made when you said Farah hadn't insulted the forum by calling David a fraud but I had by challenging her; when you told me I'm illogical and then claimed I am ignorant of the faccts, which since you don't know that, is itself illogical; when you explained to me the most basic and obvious meaning of Farah's post which one would either have to know nothing whatsoever about Iran, be nine years old, or mentally deficient not to IMMEDIATELY grasp. And on and on. That is the answer to your title question, what did you get yourslelf into.

I'll read and reply to the rest of your post later, but could you do me a favor and please take off your blinders before I do?

My Two Cents ... err ... Rials ... ;0)

David is Right even if I am not really that enthusiastic about the results for in the end of the day its all about ...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-IdjCt1tuc

More Seriously, Personally as I said before on other blogs I advocate an Iranian Solidarnosc Mouvement that would be composed by members of Iran's civil society from the likes of Shirine Ebadi to Unionists like Ossanlou to Intellectuals and Artists and who could in turn be supported by the international community and members of the Iranian Diaspora. Unlike a Political Party the Mouvement would need no particular leadership but would be first and foremost and Idea of if you will a principle philosophy for Real Change and that is Secularism and Democracy. The leaders of such a movement ( like Walesa and Geremek in Poland) would then appear gradually from within Iran's civil society independant of the political establishment or Parliment Deputies and representatives ( since the Elections are not as transparent and the candidates are most of the time selected and approved by the leadership and not the people in a fair and fully democratic process)That does not mean that Deputies in Parliament cannot join such a movement but that the key idea is supporting the idea for real change. That way society can impose its own candidates and representatives to Parliament rather than have them selected from the same corrupt and unrepresentative political aristocracy which has taken shape in Iran for the past 30 years through Bakshish and corruption and favoriticism.

The People have to show that they are no more dupe of such practices and want a different type of social programe and set of rules. For that they need to express it and let it known through channels of secure and reliable communication that can be then be delivered to the International Press and community and even through public figures in the Iranian Diaspora.

That is how the Polish managed to make the Communist Dictatorship become flexible for they realized that the establishment could not claim any form of legitimacy with the growing force of Polands civil society. People will then be able to even print their own newspapers, distribute badges and work on an intelligent and creative way of expressing their opposition without risking their lives or that of their family and friends.

IMAGINATION AND CREATIVITY have always been the two key Words in All Successful Resistance Movements in History.

I do not see this yet in any of the developments in opposition to the IRI be it in Iran with the Reformists or Outside amongst the secular Democratic Opposition ( be it the Jomhurikhahs nor the Constitutional Monarchists).

So that means that there is room for Everyone with good will and intentions but we all need also to be flexible and cooperative.

IRAN HARGUEZ NAKHAHAD MORD -Shahpour Bakhtiar

My Humble Opinion too,

DK

Mineum, the main problem as I have observed it as insider/

outsider on these threads since their inception is indeed not IRI, but certain traits prevalent among quite a few people here that are serendipiously encapsulated in this little gem also just posted to Koroush, whom I'd just written critquing his defense of Farah'sattack on David. I think the problematic traits in question shared by many are very different from the ones you named and very clear here: 

Hopefully, David is not a turncoat and does not belong to any of the above mentioned groups and can rejoin his people before being pushed into the IRI’s trap

Let's see. David is too busy trying to save Delara's life to be turning coats or pants or shoes for that matter, the (perceived) groups are nebulous constrcts of the poster's own mind; and the Iranian people David must REjoin (apparently he's ALREADY left the people) are naturally those so defined by the poster

The problem whose name I did not state explicitly to Koroush or Farah is paranoia. Paranoia and its concommittant, scapegoating, polarizing, selective input from reality--this I ignore and this I magnify tenfold; its "persecuted persecutor" stucture, and its inevitable congealing into the most frozen, static worldviews and argumentation imaginable. 

Paranoia and its discontents. Expatria.com style.

Oh god. What did i get myself into...

ROsie...

I hope you are not planning on setting a record on LONG POSTS, by replying to me. You can call anything and anyone's arguments against your own position flawed and fraud and whatever you want...but that does not change the reality of the subject. I did not care whether Farah called david a fraud, I know he is not, but that was not the point. The point was you not being able to get the right message from her comments. That is all!
And By "facts" i meant The facts that were in her post to david, not the facts on Delara's case!

This may be your Conclusion! but again, you are going on down the wrong path. It is very rediculous to accuse anyone of Inaction, just because perhaps, it may seem as if they are "spewing venom". and your deep and detailed analysis of how we may be feeling the guilt of non-action and all the nonsense about our darkside! is good "drivel" for a ballywood movie. Heck! I doubt even if they maybe interested in such rubbish. for simply you DO NOT KNOW. what they are really doing or not.

As usual, You have started to R...a...N...t on this site Yet again and lost your focus on the main topic. Again. I am not discussing the 79 revolution and who is responsible for what, it was eons ago, and today here we are, good or bad.
I am sorry rosie, I don't mean to be rude, but who The HELL are you to tell me or farah or anyone else for that matter what to ponder on and whether we should look into ourselves or not? I envy those who have changed since that time, does that make you sleep better at night? I confess. Are you cool with than madam psychiatrist?
As it is a trend for you, you just love to twist and tweak matters way out of proportion. We are not dictating what people in iran should or should not do, But discussing the matter is certainly not a pointless thing to do. It is OUR RIGHT to exchange opinions on this matter, whether psycobablists or analysts such as yourself like it or not. oh, You do not "allow" it? I am sorry. Please feel free to turn away and pay no attention.

Repeat,

Dear non-voters: my good manners prevent me from continuing this sentence which probably would end with Just shut up.

This is SOOO typical Iranian, so typical, really so typical; if something doesn´t work, then you retreat into your shell just
watching what the others are doing. And this habit is so silly and
childish. Total abstention? So typical Iranian, Ghar Kardan, this is
so ridiculous, and the most foolish way of answering to a problem, and sooo typical Iranian.

Iran´s problems? Not the Islamic Republic, Iran´s problems are the Iranians, uneducated (Bee Savad), stubborn Lajh´baz), weak in the knees (Ghar Kardanee) and uncivilized (Vah´shee).

Not voting makes the rulers stronger (and it proves that Iranians
will deserve this system another four years). If you don´t know the
difference between the years 1997-2005 and 2005-2009, then get a move on, go to Iran and talk to the people.

And stop giving silly advises. It doesn´t matter to you anyway, you
are living abroad, writing half-witted comments and having a good life. It matters only to the people living in Iran.

Come on, Boro Ghar koneed.