REVOLUTION

speaking of integrity!? (to Bijan, and Zion)

Bijan says: "Would someone please define integrity around here?"
Bijan_jAn, it has become very fashionable to talk about integrity in the U.S, even Mr. Bush used that word!
Now, Bijan_jAn, you and I are generally in opposite sides of the issues but since both of us like Zion so much, let's ask her to answer your question and the other question I have asked her (i.e., has she ever visited Iran? when was the last time she was in Iran?).

What a hell

I am an Iranian woman that has not gone back to Iran for 25 years and not planning to go back. I am against all man made Religion that protact rich and abuses poor. I am against all the religions that define me lower that any man. As a woman I am lower in the law of Islam . How could you wright an article and praise a goverment, Religon, and a god that is against human right. As a woman I dont want too much; I just want to live my life freely without intruption ; I want simple freedom that I was born with and If your god said differnt let him come here and talk to me. Mr. Abarmard, You have not gone to Iran for many years. How do you know what are people in Iran are giong through. Do you have a free minded inteligent women family in Iran? I dont care what good they might have done; Can a women not cover her hair? Can women get same inheretance as man? Can women divorce her housband just because she dosent like his face anymore?. Go back to Iran and let us know?

Bijan

Thank you for making a very valid statement concerning the lack of integrity around here.

Personally, I call it a complete absence of integrity. But hey, you say "tow-may-tow"..... It's all good.

It never ceases to amaze me; the audacity and arrogance displayed by some people, who left Iran in order to live in freedom and peace, and then start figuratively kissing the IRI's ass once the ink is dry on either their green card or naturalization papers.

Oh, and of course, if they go back to Iran for a visit, they take a couple of extra tubes of Chap Stick, because all of the kissing stops being figurative and becomes literal.

Feels good again to be an iranian

After many years of being ambivalent about my country of origin, It definitely feels good to be an Iranian. Even when looking at our politicians I think they compare favorably with their counterparts.

eg. Khatami Vs Blair

 Rafsanjani Vs Bush

 Khamenei Vs Olmert 

to: Bijan and Pahlevon

Anonymous 8: Do you think you're the only one walking in Dahats?

Pahalevon: It seems illogical for the mouthpieces to try to convince those of us who have immediate families and travel often to Iran that the IRI is a beacon of progress and prosperity. The proof is in the pudding given the annual brain drain, even hezbos immigration to Dubai and Canada, and refusal of people like Q/Abarmard to go back and live in Iran; one does not need to know a damn thing about politics, history, or economics to deduce the reasons why.

Unless, one is directly or indirectly a beneficiary of the regime's largesse/welfare/handouts, noone really believes that the life under the IRI is much better.

Stop the handouts/welfare, we will see whom those poor peasants (i.e. Dahatis like myself) support! More than 20% of the population in Iran is subsidized by the government. That is how their support of IRI is bought.

That leaves me to infer that the main target audience of the IRI's disinformation campaign, which is packaged and repackaged every months, are the Westerners who don't have direct access to information in regards to Iran.

Abarmard and Q represent a calcified group of revolutionaries whose time has run out given the impending economic Tsunami awaiting free loaders!

humorous to say the least

Isn't it funny how some people speak of integrity and they resort to character assassination as soon as they are cornered with the FACTS?

your previous statement was just proven a lie and you have to attack me in return how noble of you to show integrity by example.

I don't think this behavior is exactly what they (//giyus.org ) meant by "give support" 

IRANdokht

You scored again…I am a

You scored again…I am a right-wing conspiracist…But, what difference does it make whether crushing of a hand is fabrication or not? Does it change anything about the core of Islamic rule in Iran? You bragged on this site how you stood up to basijies and pasdars to defend your rights in your youth, but chose to come here to be whole and not a half. Now that you feel safe, you come out defending the same atrocities you escaped from, just in the name of nationalism and independence?

Would someone please define integrity around here? 

Pahlevan, you have the worst example

and that is part of the problem with people obsessed against IRI like religious mullahs themselves.

as you noticed the link you put up shows a significant decrease in wheat importing, over 10 TIMES since 1998. so if you don't think that makes a difference, your grain argument is not important, don't use it.

If you are angry at the IRI -I know you are- why don't you talk about that directly? why don't you give us a solution? The grain thing, foreign policy and pride issues will not convince anyone to overthrow any government. you only make yourself sound desperate.

if you have walked in dahats and dehkadeh's of iran and you have seen the poor, like I have. You know very well who they support. ask yourself why?

Thank you Anonymous8

That was the very proof! I don't know why facts and proofs seem to fall on deaf ears though. It's like the 8 yr old boy's arm being crushed! even after all the proof of it being a right-wing conspiracy, they still repeat the false info!

IRANdokht

Indeed Bijan

You are right on the money. There is just no shame in these people.

Dear Anonymous8

The wheat import here is just an example to reveal the fallacy in Abarmard's argument. But, If IRI (or any regime for that matter) had managed to establish a better system of governance relative to that of pre-revolution, I would also be cheering for the anniversary of the revolution. I mean Shah was a dictator after all, and I am a believer in secular democracy myself, but he had many merits over these backward akhoonds that are running our country today. Shah believed in competency ("motakhases-gera"), and put people in charge who were qualified for the job, while Mullahs believe in their own ideology and put people in charge who are most loyal to them, who are usually a bunch of corrupt incompetent boneheads. There was no political freedom during the Pahlavi regime and there is no (or little) political freedom now, but at least Iran was rapidly moving towards industrialization and modernization during Pahlavis.

Personally, I find the ideas of today's monarchists laughable, and despise groups like MKO as much I despise IRI, what I advocate is welfare of Iranians, and trust me situation in Iran is terrible nowadays. My uncle a doctor in the states, and some other wealthy Iranian doctors have setup a fund to help poor Iranians, I was put in charge of a portion of the fund last summer when I went back to Iran and had to go and see the situation myself and "assess" to see if a family deserves to get financial help, it brings tears to my eyes talking about it, almost all of the families I met didn't meat at all, their source of protein was soybean, I saw overpopulated apartments, 2 families living in the same apartment to be able to afford rent, and I met this 14 years old boy whose only dream in life was to eat a Pizza. It doesn't make sense for the people of a country so rich in resources to live like this. Things weren't this bad under Shah, that's why I find it disgusting that some expat Iranians living comfortably in west have the audacity to cheer for this regime.

Na Sharghee - Na Gharbee

IRI is the most independent Regime on this planet , Ayatollahs and Iranians who support them kept their word and are paying heavy price for it under bogus charges of terrorism and violators of human rights which brings the unjustified sanctions and threat of war every single day upon themeselves. IRI held out long enough to show to the world that who are real terrorists and violators of human rights . Economical and social ills of Iran has been exacerbated and exaggerated by those who fear success of a independency. As usual Imperialists and colonialists are unable to live with independent countries and seek to destroy their aspirations under false pretenses. As a matter of fact , if sanctions are lifted and security guaranties are implemented civil society will flourish but then again that would be another thorn in eyes of colonialists. As other posters and Abarmard noted, Iranians are content with their independence for now until circumstances changes so they can progress in other areas. Considering the heavy pressure from its adversaries , Iran not only survived these unfair sanctions but have made so much advances ironically, thanks to sanctions.
Hope to see a independent and prosperous Iran in years to come and peace on earth(everywhere)

Bijan, it's not IRI that controls the US Congress

or is spending money for things like this:
//giyus.org

this is people revolting and backlashing against the paid public management you are talking about.

And they said Israel has unleashed bloggers

to manage an online PR campaign after the Gaza incident. What about IRI? Where did all of a sudden this army of IRI supporters showed up? How can these people defend such a system that is rotten in its core in the name of nationalism and independence. Forget about hypocrisy. Enjoy the freedom and prosperity and take it for granted. Be a parasite, suck the blood and condemn the donor (in the name of criticism). But, have a shred of decency and not support the ruling of child execution, stoning, degrading human as animals, etc…

Any attempt to soothe the pain of what has happened in the last 30 years and what it will bring if continued, is a travesty. If you had such a genuine sense of nationalism, pride, and independence, you wouldn’t be sitting here supporting Velayat-e Vaghih in the name of empowering Iranians.  On one hand you say the Islamic republic has brought a lot of good things for Iran, you see many developments, but it is not quite enough to meet the people’s expectations. So, by empowering the Iranians we can improve on what the Islamic government has done and in a few generation we will have an “Improved Islamic Republic” where unemployment will be far less (maybe 15%-20%), a lot less prostitution, drugs, etc… Of course a female will continue to worth ½ of a male, you still crush the hands an 8 year old shoplifter and stone an unfaithful wife.

Thanks, but no thanks….

"Democracy" and "Freedom"

Z,

These ideals while noble are not without their faults, and thus one should be careful not to let the ideologies produced 300 years ago during the "enlightenment" to be considered the final state of perfection with regard to human complex systems evolution. Whoever represents Iran, they should reflect the spirit of the era, Iran has so much to offer the rest of the world, I think preserving the "soul" or "rooh" of the country is most important. The nice thing about Zoroastrianism was the idea that every 1000 a new prophet will incarnate with exceptional spiritual insight...so perhaps the masses need a metaphysical/astrological/cyclic messianic figure, however I think many have outgrown such ways of thinking, a "perfect" system of government does not yet exist, a utopia for one may be a dystopia for another, however I believe a semblance of paradise could be created, but theory and practice diverge significantly, while "democracy" works on a bunch of islands with locally stable economies, and "freedom" has its virtues *to some extent*...one should be careful not to let hubris and emotions determine one's actions. I believe non-heirarchical theories of political organization, such as libertarian panarchy would produce interesting results, the internet has changed the way society will function, and in order to remain competitive Iran needs to allow more liberty of self-expression in order to nurture the native creativity and intellectual capital...nothing in life is free, liberty is a somewhat different concept, individual-collective action procedures need to be developed in a way in which the diverse ways of thinking will benefit the self-reliance of the people, rather than further dependence on government institutions, we are living in the 21st century, and it has become apparent how the idea of unifying the world's government will fail miserably, the idea should be to promote meaningful interdependence without introducing memetic viruses which corrupt and interfere with the culture and consciousness of the already existing adaptations of the local economies. I think globalization is an organic process, Iran needs a more diversified economy, while not disrupting it's natural beauty and environment.

"As managers, we need to shift our thinking from command and control to coordinate and cultivate
- the best way to gain power is sometimes to give it away.
- Thomas W. Malone"

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborative_Innovat...

While I'm not a fan of genetic engineering since current (known) methods are like doing heart surgery with a shovel, the U.S./U.K. have already been experimenting with this stuff in underground facilities, I'm sure many other countries have too...for goodness sake, FM 2030 was an Iranian, smart people sometimes have dangerous imaginations, alas realpolitik demands it, only the strong will survive, however striving for an ethical path like many idealistic Americans/Iranians will pay off eventually. I think leaving a child's features up to nature and the wonder of the divine also pays off rather than interfering with a natural process.

"People who wanted to have children would apply to make sure they have no diseases. Either we have to do it through genetic engineering, or we have to let only the fit breed. We like to think that it's our right to breed as incontinently as we want to and have as many kids with whoever we want to. Future generations will be saddled with the results of what we do...or don't do. Freedom is not necessarily a right. It is a privilege that you have to earn. A lot of people abuse their freedom and that is something that people have to be trained not to do." -Chris Langan

People of Iran are behind the mullahs

Western media or special interest groups polarize the discrentled iranians as a measure to fuel their own agenda. We see criminal activity and gang killings here in the US on a routine basis, Some of which only the federal government can investigage because the bodies are found on Federal land, yet anything that happens in Iran is automatically thrown around the mullahs necks.

Go visit the state unemployment office here in the united states, or interview families that are losing their homes, or families that lost theirs after Katrina, and you'll find the same subculture of people complaining about the same issue.

Todays average Iranian in Iran is far too smart and too educated to fall for this old routine. This is a reality that opportunist aboard will either accept or can try to expolit until they are blue in the face. They've been at it now for 30 years, and what have they accomplished? Nothing but a stronger clergy rule and infulance that's being exported abroad. Change in Iran can only come from it's own intellectual social based within. Get use to it.

Questions for Zion

can't you answer some of the questions put to you before you ask them of others?

//iranian.com/main/blog/rosie-roxy-roshan...

Question for Pahlevane Mohtaram

Aghaye Pahlevan,

You are right. According to your data Iran increased imports 10 fold like you said in 20 years. I just have one question. if hypothetically Iran was able to REDUCE imports 10 fold, does that mean you would give IRI credit for it?

Ba sepas.

Zion, what about my question?

Have you ever visited Iran? Past two three years?

The Fallacy

'what some of your critics miss is the fact that iran is fully entitled to its own, non-western path for development.'

And who is to speak for "Iran"? How is it possible to determine what path "Iran" really wants to pursue? The only legitimate voice would be that of its people, dissidents included, speaking in freedom. That is why any argument claiming any form of independence in the absence of freedom and democracy is a fallacy, a deliberate lie for a specific ideological purpose.

abarmard jan

nice article, and i must say, given the political and personal atmosphere here, i admire your courage! you have certainly stimulated quite a ferocious (and at times amusing) debate here.

your central argument on independence is quite convincing. what some of your critics miss is the fact that iran is fully entitled to its own, non-western path for development. however, there is a difference between following one's own destiny and engaging in a conflict against others who are well known for being interventionist. perhaps the IRI's central weakness is in its desire to confront too much. 

We can take the example of malaysia as a country that has maintained its independence and followed its own path without engaging in conflict. and it has reaped the rewards.

it is of course true that iran was attacked by iraq, yet we did also take hostages and boast about marching to qods, and then on to washington too, no less!

having said all that, iran is not malaysia! we followed a different path, and it did bring us tremendous independence, something that most of us know the country was thirsting for very strongly after the WWII and Mossadegh debacles followed by the status of forces agreement with the US that was the shame of a proud nation, whose own military and intelligence forces were managed by the US and Israel. let me also add that, in terms of national pride, the shah never came anywhere near the IRI in the eyes of the world that sees a truly proud and independent nation in iran.

now the argument on whether the iranian opposition abroad should change its tact regarding sanctions on iran is a moot one in that this opposition was hardly instrumental in establishing the sanctions regime in the first place (at least as far as i am aware), and its lifting will not come about through their actions.

as it happens, the US is already planning to establish diplomatic relations with iran to engage in talks. these talks will necessarily mean the lifting of sanctions sooner or later. despite all the noise, iran has been ready to talk for some time now, but its overtures have been turned down for 8 years. Just as iran moved to help the US chase the taleban out of power, it was labelled an axis of evil.

the west has now learned that it made a mistake, and they are offering iran a place at the table of regional powers, as they should have a long time ago. they now realise that they need iran's help in a globalised and multipolar world that in fact was never run by a single 'super power'. that was just delusional talk that accelerated the west's economic bankruptcy.

for this very same reason, the discourse on 'independence' needs to be modified. we too are dependent on the world, on its ability to afford oil at a good price, and on our mutual benefit in trade and economic prosperity. we need to be friendly and accept our mutual interdependence in a globalised world that clearly shares in the impact of economic downturns as well as upturns.

with friendly relations on the horizon, the IRI is destined to become softer and more responsive to its internal opposition as the 'foreign foe' starts to fade.

Pahlevan khan: you left out the population increase and war factors in your wheat calculations. with these 2 taken into account, iran's agricultural productivity growth has been quite impressive.

Peace!

largest importer in the world ... Go figure

//www.indexmundi.com/iran/agriculture/wheat.html

Yes this a great link, Iran was the largest importer of wheat in the world, in the year 1999, after 20 years of a regime that isolated the country in the name of "independence" and "self-reliance", its clear that  "independence" and "self-reliance" were mere words to fool people.

Q, If anyone is deceitful here its you, production of wheat during the Shah's regime was steadily increasing, and the government managed to keep the importation under 1500m tons while at the same time the population was increasing. Its called proper management; using human resources (the increased population) and latest technology to increase the production in a rate equal or greater that the rate of population growth (I am not sure if your brain can comprehend this concept, after all you are defending IRI).

The problem with IRI is that there exist no proper management at the top, why you ask?, because people are chosen based on their royalty to the fascist regime not their qualifications. You can lie, scream, deny facts and twist the concept of Independence all you want but you cannot change the fact that importation of wheat the most basic need of a nation went spiral under IRI, and the same mullahs who were smearing Shah for importing products from united state, just this year imported 1100m tons from non other than the great satan, US of A. 

As a result of IRI's mismanagement of Iran's economy , today noon sangak
is 800 tomans (5 years ago it was 50 tomans), meat is $16 per Kg (its
$8 here in north America), rent of a one bedroom apartment in center of
Tehran is $600, The salary of a teacher is $400, as a result many
families are forced to live in worst conditions, I have seen ten people
living in a one bedroom apartment, most people don't eat meat in years. And Abarmard, living comfortably in the west, has the audacity to say revolution was a good thing.

And now, After 30 years of isolation, oppression and economic mismanagement by IRI thugs, we have our very own IRI apologist living in the land of the great Satan and defending their policies and failures. He would call anyone who criticizes IRI "liar" and "stupid" and any source that exposes IRI's facist regime"propaganda".

Read the following articles about IRI's detrimental policies:

Iran's economy, once one of the most advanced in the Middle East, was
crippled by the 1979 Islamic revolution and the Iran'Iraq war, and the
country continues to suffer from chronic economic mismanagement and
corruption...[Read More]

THE Islamic revolution of February 1979 turned the Iranian economy
upside down. It took wealth from the private sector and transferred it
to the clerically-dominated Islamic state. Nationalization and
confiscation of property substantially reduced the private sector,
while the public sector became rich and was forced to run the country's
main businesses...The state managers in charge were young revolutionaries with few
managerial skills and little experience. They have run the state
enterprises inefficiently, with losses that abused the government
budget...[Read More]

In the latter half of the 1990s, the Iranian economy faces horrendous
problems: economic mismanagement, high inflation, declining living
standards, a growing gap (much of it fueled by pervasive corruption)
between a wealthy minority and vast impoverished majority, high rates
of unemployment, an inability to significantly increase oil production
(concurrent with lower oil prices), stagnant per capita
investment and GDP, serious problems in the manufacturing sector, and a
heavy burden of foreign debt. As a result, the rate of annual economic
growth in recent years (1993-96) has averaged 1.5 percent, well below
the 3 percent annual growth in population....[Read More]

Roots are good....

You're party has long been hijacked though you've yet to notice because you are too consumed with your hate for the mullahs. If you look past the suburbs, you may relinquish Fred for the orignal and that may be the first sign that you are headed for embracing the reality.

You'll someday appreciate my care and kindness.

Of course Q

can't you see I am imploring you for an answer? So what is it, you confirm you are ashamed and that you have no good reason to stay here but your own selfishness? Are we to gather that despite your loud words, your actions in the form of the choice you made for your own life shows which side of this "struggle" is the right one?

-----
I know Fred. It's just a slow Sunday afternoon... .

Exercise in futility

Listening to Islamists and their lefty allies one is left with the impression of how peachy the life is in the Islamist-land. The caring Islamist officials so often take a break from their public floggings, eye gouging, stoning, limb amputating, creative methods of stringing people up from traffic lights and construction cranes-And attend to peoples’ earthly needs.

All the nonsense about ruining the country’s agriculture by preferential imports as is the case with the citrus and tea or lack of common sense planning in basic staples likes wheat which is still not irrigated are just not true.  Forget about the historic fact that Khorasan, the birthplace of the fame Kamut wheat, was the entire region’s breadbasket for centuries, just because the previous regime mismanaged it, the Islamists have the same right to mismanagement, what is it to anyone?

Trying to have an intelligent fact based discourse with the slippery Islamists/lefties is like nailing Jell-O to the wall, just an exercise in futility.  

more experts on american history?

i love it. i really do.

considerably LESS than a million people died in the civil war.

Parasites

Although certain elements of the Israeli leadership come across as egocentric and unsympathetic towards fellow humans, that shouldn't be confused with Jewish or Israeli people themselves who are some of the most intelligent and caring people one will ever become familiar with, same goes for the Bahais...the parasites of the world are from every religion and culture, they simply use such appearances, the fact is evil comes in many forms, and stereotypes only reveal the ignorance of those who narrow-mindedly categorize people through superficial means and not on any deeper understanding of their individual personality, we must reinvent the sacred as Staurt Kaufmann has aptly stated in his book, and strive towards a sense of global ethic. (omg a Jewish last name! ;p) Some of the smartest and most talented artists and scientist happen to come from families who adopted the Jewish religion, who cares! What matters is their unique character, not their family name.

Another interesting author:
//www.scribd.com/doc/922034/Terrorism-Illumin...
//www.thedyinggod.com/

Well, Zion, the real question is

Are terrorist apologists like me who have inferior cultures and violent religions, who come from countries worthy of bombing for "Israeli security", even worthy of confirming any of your hypotheses? It's a serious question. Nothing you have said leads me to believe I can possess such ability.

In fact, calling them hypothesis is a misnomer. I'm sure you are only saying it out of pure modesty since the word could mean there's a gap between your utterances and reality.

Thanks Q

Are we to take that as an official confirmation of my hypothesis? Now that you don't wish to contradict, would do you also corroborate it?

Zion, once again you have proven you already know

the answers you are seeking.

Far be it from me to interrupt your poetic soliloquy with my imperfect words.

Besides, I don't wish to contradict you by engaging. Thank You again for your deep insights into our lives and our country. All the more impressive for someone with so little experience.