VIEW

100 men? (to Jamshid)

As you can see from my comments below, for the most part I found your comment (the one before last) reasonable, unlike your past comments I didn't find extrimism in it.
.... I asked if your 100 men were ready because you said:
" Two years before the revolution in 1979, it looked just as helpless and impossible to unite or overthrow the Shah's regime. But because of the persistence of a few, it did happen. "

Questioning your views is not hochgari, your majesty!

From pretense of intellectualism to hochigari

At first, regime sympathizers attempt to use fallacy and sophistry to rebuff those who oppose the IRI. They try to sound intellectual. But when this doesn't work and they themselves are rebuffed with strong argumentation and reasoning, next, they resort to belittling and ridiculing their opponents.

In some corners of Iran, they call this "hochigari". Luckily, their next usual step, "chomaagh", cannot follow in here.

I don't mind these individuals revealing their true inner-nature and motifs in public. The more they do, the better.

An Achievable Dream?

Mehrban wrote: “The constitution will have to protect the secular nature of the government and who ever is voted to be in office will have to uphold the constitution… The difference is that the electorate is the one that determines who will run the affairs of the state for a period of time and everyone has to accept that choice.”

I agree wholeheartedly. The challenge is to establish the core principles of that constitution correctly. This is an achievable dream because there are numerous Iranian legal scholars whose credentials and devotion equip them to materialize that constitution.

I would also like to share with you another point: The majority of Iranian politicians have not reached the level of maturity required to participate in a democracy. In a free republic, one must be ready to pack his bags and go home once he is voted out of the office. Instead, our politicians plot a coup d'état or rally the thugs in order to keep them in power…

jolting your memory, Laleh

"First, there were thuggish attacks to intimidate the opposition voices. Once that effort was crushed, the thugs became a hailing choir to ridicule any idea of regime change."

Laleh: It is not so much the regime change that is being ridiculed, it is your way of going about it that is being ridiculed. It is your ultra leftist/extremist, and thuggish attacks on other critics of IRI (who don't agree with you) that is being ridiculed .... did you forget about your threatening comments on //iranian.com/main/2009/may/privilege-lon... ?

BTW, ironically the guy who posted the CAMELOT video, is a regime change advocate!

A Secular Democracy has a Constitution

The constitution will have to protect the secular nature of the government and who ever is voted to be in office will have to uphold the constitution. 

Of course democratic laws will also make Fatwas to kill or any other violent impulse unlawful.   It is not possible to legally exclude non-criminal members of the society from a true Democratic process, clergy or not.  however, I do understand a certain anxiety associated with being inclusive of the clergy in the political process given the present state of the affairs.  But that is Democracy, if one could exclude the ones one did not like or trust or ....... then it would look more like the Islamic Republic. 

Democracy is actually not an easy option, it requires a lot of involvement from the citizenry for its preservation.  The competition of ideas will not end at the establishment of the Democracy, they just begin.  The difference is that the electorate is the one that determines who will run the affairs of the state for a period of time and everyone has to accept that choice.  

Who are Islamists?

Capt_ayhab wrote: “With all due honesty, I could not agree with you more, catch is Ms. Gillani, whom you support her manifesto, is seeking Exclusive secular democracy. By that she has plainly stated that she and her group will EXCLUDE Islamist from partaking in governance of the country. “

If I may interject, Sassan and I can clarify any disparity once we have defined to whom “the Islamists” refer. If this is a reference to a person who believes in Islam, practices his religion to various degrees, and doesn’t have a political agenda to cleanse the earth from kafirs, I consider such an individual a regular citizen of the republic. He may choose to participate in politics as he pleases.

However, if “Islamists” constitute a religious group on the quest of shoving their ideology down everyone’s throat, issuing and executing fatwas to murder writers and intellectuals, and ultimately establishing a theocracy, my answer is clear: The laws of the secular republic must face them head-on with force!

Back on Track Again!

There has been a concerted effort to derail this discussion thread. First, there were thuggish attacks to intimidate the opposition voices. Once that effort was crushed, the thugs became a hailing choir to ridicule any idea of regime change.

However, it appears that other contributors such as Sassan and capt_ayhab have managed to put us back on track towards a civilized exchange of ideas. I am much obliged to you both.

Without a doubt, the thugs and the hailing choir will be back. We will face the thuggish remarks head-on but mostly ignore the hailing tactics.

Sassan

I like your tone much better, you are setting forth logical debate and even thought I do not agree with most of them but this is how a dialogue should be presented. Thanks for face about.

I am not going to defend my number of 20% since I have qualified it as being an estimate. Where did I get that from? from talking to people in Iran, friends, family, ex classmates, and people on the street since I visit Iran often.

Even if we say it is 5%, we are still talking about roughly 3.5 million. Here is the catch, these 3.5 million are mainly Sepahi, Basiji, segment of Army and police, security personnel, and other militia forces such as Ghods. These group with some exceptions, are highly trained fighting forces who are armed to the teeth. How else do you think regime has sustained its criminal existence for 30 years?

You said[In a TRUE democratic system that accomodates (as opposed to repress) political parties of all stripes, the Islamists can join a political party and voice their opinion! If they get members elected into the parliament, so be it! What are you afraid of? Are you sure you understand how a democratic system operates?]

With all due honesty, I could not agree with you more, catch is Ms. Gillani, whom you support her manifesto, is seeking Exclusive secular democracy. By that she has plainly stated that she and her group will EXCLUDE Islamist from partaking in governance of the country.

Can you or Ms. Gillani elaborate on this disparity of Ideology and this grave disagreement within your team/group?

Much Obliged sir

-YT

Here are 2 Comments.

1 - So many IRI apologists and lobbyist have non-Arabic names!!   Why don't they use their real names ?   I am having a hard time envisioning a hezbollahi named Dariush !!  lol  I think Laleh Fan said it best - there is no logic that would convince a guy/gal on payroll.   You can't wake up one who pretends to be sleeping.  

2 - IRI is spending a lot of money and effort to make this one look like a real and popular election - just for that - we need to make sure we do not participate and challenge the very core of the mullahs fundamental beliefs.  

Darius

Darius
je crois que tes poemes n'ont rien a voir avec l'article...Peut-etre que tu devrais ecrire un article separement...

eloquent piece on 100 men (to AnonyFirm)

AnonyFirm says: "With the King and his hundred fighters joining us we won't have to wait 30 long years to overthrow this regime (a relief for Captain Ayhab who rightly suggested that 30 years is more than a demographic generation) and we can install a secular republic or as the great revisionist Darius Kadivar suggest now (even though that sounds not what master Laleh had envisaged) a 'Monarchic Secular Republic'.

Thanks God Kadivar was not a leftist otherwise Laleh's plan could have been well transformed to a 'Proletariat Dictatorial Democratic Secular Replublic'.

No matter what comes out of this we stand firmly behind you Laleh... and the King."

That is an eloquent piece girl (we guys can't write so beautifully).

CAMELOT, ... Here We Come ! ;0)

C'est Moi

LANCELOT:
Camelot! Camelot!
In far-off France I heard your call.
Camelot! Camelot!
And here am I to give my all.
I know in my soul what you expect of me,
And all that and more I shall be.

A knight of the Table Round should be invincible,
Suceed where a less fantastic man would fail.
Climb a wall no one else can climb,
Cleave a dragon in record time,
Swim a moat in a coat of heavy iron mail.
No matter the pain, he ought to be unwinceable,
Impossible deeds should be his daily fare.
But where in the world
Is there in the world
A man so *extraordinaire*?

C'est moi! C'est moi, I'm forced to admit.
'Tis I, I humbly reply.
That mortal who
These marvels can do,
C'est moi, c'est moi, 'tis I.
I've never lost
In battle or game;
I'm simply the best by far.
When swords are crossed
'Tis always the same:
One blow and au revoir!
C'est moi! C'est moi! So adm'rably fit!
A French Prometheus unbound.
And here I stand, with valour untold,
Exeption'ly brave, amazingly bold,
To serve at the Table Round!

The soul of a knight should be a thing remarkable,
His heart and his mind as pure as morning dew.
With a will and a self-restraint
That's the envy of ev'ry saint
He could easily work a miracle or two.
To love and desire he ought to be unsparkable,
The ways of the flesh should offer no allure.
But where in the world
Is there in the world
A man so untouched and pure?
(C'est moi!)

C'est moi! C'est moi, I blush to disclose.
I'm far too noble to lie.
That man in whom
These qualities bloom,
C'est moi, c'est moi, 'tis I.
I've never strayed
From all I believe;
I'm blessed with an iron will.
Had I been made
The partner of Eve,
We'd be in Eden still.
C'est moi! C'est moi! The angels have chose
To fight their battles below,
And here I stand, as pure as a pray'r,
Incredibly clean, with virtue to spare,
The godliest man I know!
C'est moi!

AnonyFirm MAMA MIA ;0)

Send “Mama Mia” Ringtone to your Cell

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQy0ZGjAqM8&feature=related

Mamma mia, here I go again
My my, how can I resist you?
Mamma mia, does it show again?
My my, just how much I've missed you
Yes, I've been brokenhearted
Blue since the day we parted
Why, why did I ever let you go?
Mamma mia, now I really know,
My my, I could never let you go.

I've been angry and sad about the things that you do
I can't count all the times that I've told you we're through
And when you go, when you slam the door
I think you know that you won't be away too long
You know that I'm not that strong.
Just one look and I can hear a bell ring
One more look and I forget everything, o-o-o-oh

Mamma mia, here I go again
My my, how can I resist you?
Mamma mia, does it show again?
My my, just how much I've missed you
Yes, I've been brokenhearted
Blue since the day we parted
Why, why did I ever let you go?
Mamma mia, even if I say
Bye bye, leave me now or never
mamma mia, it's a game we play
Bye bye doesn't mean forever

Mamma mia, here I go again
My my, how can I resist you?
Mamma mia, does it show again?
My my, just how much I've missed you
Yes, I've been brokenhearted
Blue since the day we parted
Why, why did I ever let you go
Mamma mia, now I really know
My my, I could never let you go

Those with vested interest

Those with vested interest will never understand your argument, Laleh jan.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
- Sinclair Upton

Laleh

You stating the obvious about the regime tells me NOTHING and offers no solution. All I need to say in reply of your empty slogans is this:
Your no vote solution was tried by "reformist" 4 years ago and brought Ahmadinejad, 24% inflation, more corruption, human rights violations and shadow of potential war.
Until you come up with a real solution away from stating the obvious in form of empty slogans: NO MORE THANKS!

Reformists or those who vote have not declared war on you , but you have on them!

Wow and Wow on me

I did not know of King Jamshid's and a Hundred Men's story. A thousands wow on me!

I never had the chance to know about that story until right now in this blog by the naughty Anonymous7, Captain Ayhab and the Holy King himself, even though I had read about King Arthur and the Twelve Knights before...

May I ardently beg for some elaboration on this story, I can not find the blog of the tale. Does anyone have a link to the epic: King Jamshid and His Hundred Men?

What I immediately suggest to the King himself who is present here is that he straightly takes his one hundred men and join them with our group (The Laleh Revolutionaries), to create a union of revolutionary forces on this very Eve of Laleh's Democratic Secular Revolution in Iranian.com .

Two hands is better than one though one is better than none!

With the King and his hundred fighters joining us we won't have to wait 30 long years to overthrow this regime (a relief for Captain Ayhab who rightly suggested that 30 years is more than a demographic generation) and we can install a secular republic or as the great revisionist Darius Kadivar suggest now (even though that sounds not what master Laleh had envisaged) a 'Monarchic Secular Republic'.

Thanks God Kadivar was not a leftist otherwise Laleh's plan could have been well transformed to a 'Proletariat Dictatorial Democratic Secular Replublic'.

No matter what comes out of this we stand firmly behind you Laleh... and the King.

Hail Laleh,
Hail the King,
Victory is near since the King himself is here!

.

Laleh Klashnikof verus Jamshid(to capt ayahab)

Yes Capt Ayahab, it is hard to reconcile Jamshid's more or less moderate comment and his support for Laleh Klashnikof's views.

jamshid

I did not ask for your dispute of number. Normally when one disputes an estimate rather than just disagreeing with it, one should come up with a different number with his/her support of the claim. You sayit is not 20% estimated as I said, set forth your estimate. hamintori alaki diapute nakon.

You say[I know many basijis, dating back to the years of my service. Did you know there is a strong dissent even among basijis?]

ayval to that, but question is Do you know if they are defecting or this one is just another[bookhare medeh] so to speak. Agha jan do not drop names bring forth proof. You being an Ex basiji does not pre-qualify you as an expert in the realm of Basiji Defection. In a nut shell, talk is cheap, show me the money!

You say [Today, the opposition is fragmented. Monarchists and Mossdeghis still bring up the (dead) past, all along not understanding that their similarities are more than their differences. Many secular forces attack Islam (a big mistake), not understanding that there are many
ayatolahs that yearn for secularism and they could be their best allies.]

No sh!t Sherlock! We don't need no Ex Basiji Expert to tell us this, all we have to do is read the blogs and comments.,[ Mibakhshin ha]

You say  [It is just a matter of time. It may take another 30 years, but it is bound to happen simply due to the fact that the IRI is one of the
most inhuman, corrupt and unnatural entities the world has seen.]

Dudeee... Matter of times means like within months.  30 years is a full generation[economically and socially it takes 25 years for one generation to give away to the next one]. A bit better estimate of time from you is needed to get yours and Ms. Gillani revolution prepared.

You say[ An opposition that only includes monarchists, or only mossadeghis or only leftists will not be able to defeat the IRI.]

You missed the boat on this one again, The original Revolution Manifesto written by Ms. Gillani, of which you have come for rescue, EXCLUDES some elements of the society already, so your inclusion[ism] doctrine is apparently on a head on collision course with the master plan.

Finally heck of deal about 100 man strong army, what ever did happen to the movement?

Regards but regretfully !

-YT

the 100 men (to capt ayhab)

The 100 men idea is along the same lines that he noted. The idea however has evolved, just as the person who's brain fart originally produced that idea has evolved (he talks less nonsense these days).

um yeah... monarchy no...

um yeah... monarchy no... but jamshid that last comment was fantastic. I think secularists and religious elements of the Iran who actually ~care~ about realize that the current system does the governining of Iran no favors, but it also does religion/Islam no favors (by politicizing something that is personal).

It's just a matter of setting aside personal beliefs and work on common values. For example some women may choose to wear hijab out of personal belief, others may not. A common value would be the operative word /choice/. You may be a monarchist, I may be a democratist~ but we both agree that the government should secularized. That is a common value. You may believe that government should represent people's religion, I may believe that government should represent people's non-religious interests. We at least have a common value, that the government should represent the people. From there we can make compromises (aka religious parties represented in the parliament, etc. etc. but an overall secular government)

This is a much more productive approach to take than what is often found for example on this side where people just ATTACK each other. We can always, always, always find common values... even between opposite poles of society, and we can build from there.

Yes Jamshid

"It is just a matter of time. It may take another 30 years, but it is bound to happen."

I fully concede to your statement dear Jamshid. We might have some differences but I do agree that eventually this system can not last for long. But as to how and when that will happen I really do not know and can not guess.

Regards,
AF

The Blood Brethren

Darius Kadivar wrote: “Ever considered morphing it into a monarchy?”

In some ways, it is already a monarchy because the members of the ruling class are all related by blood. For example, Khatami's wife is the sister-in-law of Ahmad Khomeini, the late son of Khomeini. The wife of Muhammad-Reza Khatami is Khomeini's grand-daughter.

The policy is to create a tangled web of blood brethren so that their political and financial interests are intertwined.

Re: Capt Ahyab

First, your 20% estimate is off. Where did you get this number? There is dissent everywhere in Iran, even among IRI rank and files itself. The estimates that I have read (and confirmed with my own eyes) is 7 to 14 percent, with a vast majority of those supporting the regime only for their financial interests, meaning they switch sides based on the direction of the wind.

I know many basijis, dating back to the years of my service. Did you know there is a strong dissent even among basijis? The opposition has so far failed, because most of them don't understand the importance of Islam in Iranians' psyche.

Today, the opposition is fragmented. Monarchists and Mossdeghis still bring up the (dead) past, all along not understanding that their similarities are more than their differences. Many secular forces attack Islam (a big mistake), not understanding that there are many ayatolahs that yearn for secularism and they could be their best allies.

But as I wrote in my previous comment, a new vision against the IRI encompassing all segments of our society, including the left, jebheye mellis, monarchists, meli mazhabis, religious, secular, young or old, even basijis and ayatolahs (such as Broroujerdi) will eventually be formed.

It is just a matter of time. It may take another 30 years, but it is bound to happen simply due to the fact that the IRI is one of the most inhuman, corrupt and unnatural entities the world has seen.

"the fact that religion is an important fabric of any society..."

So what if it is? It is a powerful force that could be used against the IRI. The IRI and its akhoonds do not represent Islam. They represent the ugliest and worst that any religion has to offer, instead of the best and beautiful aspects of it.

The future opposition that could eventually defeat the IRI must be open and intelligent enough to recruit the many willing and eager elements of Islam in Iran.

When was the last time anyone asked whatever happened to ayatolah Boroujerdi?

An opposition that only includes monarchists, or only mossadeghis or only leftists will not be able to defeat the IRI.

And I am not saying that this vision is formed yet, but it will eventually.

On another note, the 100 men comes from a blog in which I wrote that the time and efforts of only 100 dedicated men and women working in unison and in an organized way could go a long way to counter the IRI's massive propaganda machine and expose its crimes.

Ever Considered Morphing it into a ... ;0)

Monarchy  ?

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-bRa86a8to&feature=related

Hee, Hee

Futility of Fascist Elections

Captain Ahab writes:

"Knowing that there are in fact true supporters of this regime... estimated at around 20% of population], knowing that majority of of Iranian population are Muslims... What do you propose with these people?"

Captain, firstly, I SERIOUSLY doubt that are 20% in Iran that support this barbaric regime -- it's more like 5%. But let's say you're right, there are 20% and a majority are muslims, what on earth do you mean when you say, "what do you propose to do with these people?"

In a TRUE democratic system that accomodates (as opposed to repress) political parties of all stripes, the Islamists can join a political party and voice their opinion! If they get members elected into the parliament, so be it! What are you afraid of? Are you sure you understand how a democratic system operates?

I repeat, the regime KNOWS that the great majority of Iranians (whether it's 95% or 80%) are against the mullah regime! That's why the IRI pays Nokia-Siemens millions of dollars to buy the technology to intercept phone calls and electronic messages. They know that popular unrest is increasing ten-fold and want to choke the movement before it gets out of control!

That's why we need international support to create a situation where the mullahs know that they have NO CHOICE but to leave! Once they realize this very important FACT, the leadership will implode from within!

This is why the veneer of a "democratic election" in Iran is a HUGE -- HUGE! -- bonus for the mullahs, for it diminishes the legitimate basis for international support against the clerical regime. The vision of a smiling mullah (Khatami) as an "elected" president in the Islamic Republic did very little good for Iranians, but it did A WHOLE LOT of good propaganda for the mullahs in Europe and elsewhere.

The Europeans followed the election of Khatami by giving the Nobel Peace Prize to Shirin Ebadi so as to fabricate this picture of a new and vibrant political scene in Iran. In other words, "if" the mullahs succeed at selling the idea that Iran is a "quasi-democracy," it helps them enormously in deflating international pressure!

This is why it is CRITICAL for people to not fall prey to this circus, this insulting sham of an "election," which is designed more to fool westerners than help Iranians!

Do not vote! Do not fall prey to the lies of yet another dark chapter of the clerical regime! Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, three times and more, SHAME ON US!

P/S

I see comments like[The end of regime is near], and that[the sky is falling] and that[the days of the regime are numbered]!!!

How come I did not get the memo? and why are you guys keeping this important news that [the end of regime is around the corner]?

come on people, publish these sorts of news, don't just keep it for yourselves, people have some packing to do.

-YT

Anonym7

You crack me up dude/dudet,,,,,lol

But for the life of me I have no idea about this [100 man strong] that you are talking about. I know it would be a departure from the subject matter, but can you help a brother by telling me the story?

Thanks dude/dudet

-YT

Jamshid

You said[Who is this "everyone else"? Regime supporters? They have allienated an entire nation for 30 years. So let them be alienated a little. Additionally, Ms. Laleh Gillani is echoing the voices of many
Iranians from all segments of the society, not just hers.]

Knowing that there are in fact true supporters of this regime[by hooks or crooks], and knowing that they are far more than just handful few[estimated at around 20% of population], knowing that majority of of Iranian population are Muslims and the fact that religion is an important fabric of any society, particularity a society as traditional as Iran......

What do you propose with these people? be as specific and as honest as you can, since we are talking about millions upon millions of people.

Regards

-YT

uh

I did not denounce boycott, I called it an INFECTIVE tool by an irrelevant group who has racked up a checkered past. Boycott [abstention] is nothing but a soft tool designed to protest an issue in an election and hardly is considered a resistance.

are you the same one who taked about boycotting israel to death?

Thank You for Saving Me!

AnonyFirm wrote: “it still amazes me to see how you can not understand the fact that what the political science instructors say about the long-term mental development of the idea of democracy in a nation (taking several centuries of intellectual work) has nothing to do with the American Revolution process you are boringly quoting from.”

You have successfully convinced me to give up all political activities and join a hailing choir since it takes several centuries of intellectual work to achieve anything noteworthy in Iran. As I don’t expect to live even close to one century, what’s the use?

Hail political science instructors who saved me from myself!