Iranian of the Day

MR Cheshmakzan

Could you please let us have the address and the contact details of the Evin & Kahrizak Local Women's Shelter, so that alleged victims of rape and abuse in these 2 institutions can seek refuge in them? While you are at it please provide the details of the Local Men's shelter as well?

and since YOU insist that the IR regime must investigate these "allegations", please let us know which branch of IR is competent to carry out that investigation since we are so "frightened of questioning and investigating credibility of such stories"?

Lastly do let us know about any investigation over the last 30 years that has resulted in a single conviction arising from allegation of prison abuse?

KP

What a two faced Hypocrite!

Captaain Jaan: you ask: in dige kiye?  I tell you who s/he is.  While she is demanding absolute proof that this poor Iranian girl is a rape victim (I guess that will entail a video of the torturer's penis penetrating her --Sorry to be graphic.  It is not intended for sexual reasons, rather for dramatic effect), questions this victim's mannerism and uses it to cast doubt on her truthfulness and her sincerity, here s/he is calling me and other people "fascists" for doing a similar thing (not to a rape victim and we are much less offensive and obnoxius than "Setareh") on this thread:

//iranian.com/main/2009/sep/azadeh-salami

In other words, if I question the seincerity of someone's religious beliefs based on a video, I am a racist and a fascist who is not giving the person the benefit of the doubt.  But, if s/he does the same thing to a rape victim and brings her story into question because she is too "calm" on the video, then s/he's doing the right thing and is preventing the pure, virgin Green movement from becoming a tool of the Zionists, the monarchists, Twitter, blah, blah, blah....

See the despicable hypocricy?!!!!

PS/ when it comes to this "Setareh" creature, this is the rule of the game: agree with him/her or you're wrong...and quite possibly a fascist!

MR Setareh Cheshmakzan

You noted[This lady is not a rape victim in a 'local women's shelter'.]

Do tell please how one rape victim  is different form the other victim(s)? Do tell us please how can we tell them apart so we don't get fooled by the [shelter rape victim], since they are out there to get us for bit of compassion[the STUFF you know nothing about.]

Inquiring minds are awaiting your vast ocean of knowledge to get educated!

-YT 

P/S in dige kiye? >:|

Mina Dadvar - almost zero?! On what evidence?!

It is indeed impossible to conclude by a few minutes of watching a video that the person is lying.  By the same token it is indeed impossible to conclude that he/she is telling the truth.  This is the point!

Of course, it is the case that people's responses vary depending on a variety of factors such as personal history, severity of abuse, and the context in which they divulge it.  You seem to refer to the possibility of dissociation from trauma which might explain her apparent composure and ability to speak about it publicly so soon after such a horrific ordeal.  This however raises the question in my mind about the "fear and vulnerability" in relation to naming the abusers, you are referring to.  

Anyway, I have attempted to clarify my position and my intention in my comment below.   Since there is a political context to these stories and they are bound with the popular movement in Iran against an abusive regime, it is important to be meticulous with the truth.

Azarin, Flying Solo and Captain

My intention is not to insult a rape victim.  This lady is not a rape victim in a 'local women's shelter'.  There is a political context to these stories of rape and torture and in my opinion it is crucial that we seek evidence when possible and question their source and credibility.  When we insist that the IR regime must investigate these allegations, why are WE ourselves so frightened of questioning and investigating credibility of such stories???!   

If any story of rape and torture HAS TO BE BELIEVED uncritically and it is considered a taboo to question the credibility of such stories, this indicates political motivation regardless of truth and fear of truth rather than concern for victims of state violence.  Your concern for the plight of rape and torture victims would be far more effective if you paid meticulous attention to evidence (hence naming of the two individuals, Flying Solo, who worked together in a particular time frame). The story of Taraneh Mousavi, Azarin is referring to, is a case in point.  The fact that its authenticity was questioned did not silence it.  It was the pressure to seek evidence that finally led to public exposure.

When there is meticulous concern for truth, it adds to the credibility of claims and gets powerful public support ... rather than just another story that may or may not stand up to scrutiny.  

I have trust in the validity and legitimacy of the Green movement in Iran and to that end I am not bound by arbitrary gags and taboos.

Flying Solo - You are right that victims of rape do not freely talk about their predicament.  However, this lady did and in so far as she did this without apparent difficulty, the naming of the abusers could not have been an issue. If anything, the naming would help identify culprits.  

Finally, I am sincerely sorry if you feel I have been callous and caused offense.  This certainly wasn't my intention. Needless to say, my hope and effort too is focussed on bringing these criminals to justice and to get rid of the regime behind the abuse.  

The likelihood of lying is almost zero

Although there are a number of specific symptoms that can be observed in traumatized people, there are many factors that impact the behavior of such individuals.  The severity and nature of the trauma are obviously, very important.  The other factors include, (but not limited to) such as:  age, gender, personality make up of the individual before the trauma, family history and cultural teachings are all crucial.  Depending on the situation, one individual might numb himself/herself and talk about the most horrifying events without a clinch.  While another one, might feel safe enough to own/express his/her feelings regarding the trauma.  And the third one might talk about it with a smile on his/her face.  As if, it all, happened to someone else. 

Observing this young woman for few minutes, and concluding that she is lying/telling the truth is nearly impossible.  However, the likelihood of a young woman from Iran lying about being raped repeatedly and by several people is almost zero.  Most rape victims are unwilling to admitt, being raped, because they are so ashamed.  Even in U.S.   

Several people asked, why she did not disclose the identities of her tormentors.  I have worked with many torture survivers.  Many of them are unwilling to divulge infromation/disclose their tormentors names, because, they continue to feel frighthened and vulnerable, even, in the saftey of the therapy sessions.  Some, might even  feel loyal to their jailers.  It is hard to believe.  But human behavior has never been an easy thing to explain.     

Captain

I agree with you.  It is absolutely pathetic.  But these people are blinded by ideology, and are also desparate to save the sinking ship that is their great "Revolution".  So, they'll do and say anything, regardless of how absurd, insulting inappropriate it is, to achieve that goal.

A perfect analogy would be a wounded animal. 

how pathetic

After reading some of the comments, I am appalled to witness how callously some cast shadow of doubt over this woman's sincerity.

One question I have for these people, have you ever in your lives talked, or even been in the same room with a rape victim? Can you even comprehend the humiliation, pain, disgrace and loneliness these poor creatures feel the way they have been violated, and in her case with utmost brutality?

If not, then I suggest you pay a visit to your local abused women shelter, spend some of your freedom fighting precious time and just witness them in their pain, Perhaps then you might develop an smidgen of compassion and humanity.

Which in some cases I seriously doubt.

-YT 

gut wrenching :(

As gut wrenching these clips are, we MUST watch them constantly so we shall never forget the pain and suffering these brave souls are going through.

I only wish they knew how proud of them we are, as our true heroins and heroes. Their honor will be avenged by fighting women and men of Iran Zamin.

May God have mercy on their pain.

-YT 

Naming the rapist?

On TV? Why? Why should this woman expose herself to further abuse and ridicule? What is there to be gained?

And Iranian women are in the habit of going public with the shame of being assaulted and raped, as if it is a badge of honor? Lest the public doubt?

Doubt all you want but please - let's keep things in perspective.

Many abused women of all walks of life choose to remain silent for one simple reason - that they may not be believed or even worse, be accused of having brought it upon themselves. It's a lose-lose all around. And here is evidence isn't it - right on this very blog.

The statements don't sound genuine to you because they are not accompanied by the 'correct' stone face? Well - too bad. Let's see how you publicize it if you are ever at the receiving end of a slap on your face let alone a vicious assault to your genitals.

Shame.

Well said Sima!

Dear Sima,

You said it the best!

Questionning Maryam's sincerity reminds me of the case of Taraneh Mousavi. Everybody, me included, doubted in her story, but only when even Karoubi mentioned her rape and murder, we all finally accepted. Anyway, she never got a chance to testify. 

I'm happy that Maryam is alive, unlike Taraneh. I'm also happy that now she is here in a free country where she can speak up on behalf of girls like Taraneh. Also, I admire her strength because she doesn't cry as if she is ashamed of herself.

But I am not surprised at all by the attacks on her. It should be of the same nature she has endured in Iran.

to Setarh Cheshmakzan: So you are a man who likes to be disguised as a woman! Hmmm..now I get it.

I was actually surprised how come a woman who claims to be working with rape victims could be so out of touch with the issues of women in Iran. Now, it makes perfect sense...I'm just a bit worried for those vulnerable women in your hand, when your first reaction is that they're lying.

Sima, hasty assumption?!

As an Iranian woman, did you make a "hasty assumption" about the gender of "Setareh"?!  It seems you are into making hasty assumptions generally.  I have many years of experience of dealing with trauma and its aftermath, about feeling cut off and 'dead'.  This lady did not look 'stone faced' and cut off.  However, I posed other questions too, such as her not naming her abusers.  Does she not want them identified?!  I expressed my DOUBTS and I am right in doing so.

I disagree with you about swallowing scepticism when it comes to allegations of rape and torture at this particular time, because when black propaganda and fabrications are allowed to go unquestioned, the result is that there will be a confusion about truth and untruth and it would undermine the power of truth.  For me the victory of this movement is inseparable from its moral and intellectual rigor. 

Setareh khanom

Yes, I realize I made a hasty assumption about your sex. But that doesn't detract from what I was saying. Also, you say you've worked with rape victims. If that's the case you haven't learned very much from them.

If you recall, a while ago there was an interview with another rape victim who said that she feels dead and only the thought of revenge keeps her alive. People who are hurt like this can get very angry and a stone face is one of the faces of anger.

I am not naive about the possibility of any kind of infiltration in any kind of movement and have more than my share of skepticism about everything. But humility is something else. All I'm saying is when you are not absolutely sure about someone's "lies and fabrications" and there is a distinct possibility that they have been very very hurt, it is common decency to swallow your skepticism and hold your peace.

And I'm very much Iranian.

XerXes, you nit wit

"Why is she hiding their names? something is wrong here"

have your conspiracy programed mind ever considered that she is not mentioning the names because she has family members in Iran and she does not want to place them in danger?  Have you ever thought of that possibility?  Or in your mind does she automatically qualify as a "Zionist" symphatizer?

What were the rapists names?

Why is she hiding their names? something is wrong here.

Sima, I think you have got the whole thing wrong

Nobody here is trying to belittle anyone, specially those who have suffered tremendously in the hands of some a$$holes working or acting on behalf of IRI. What it is being said is that there are some element of suspect here and they are being pointed out clearly, not simply accuse of without giving any details or reasons.

On the other hand, to suggest that we are to buy any statement blindly just because is anti IRI, is a fast way to fool ourselves and not be true to those who have suffered in the hands of IRI. Credibility is of the essence if we are to get any where, without it we are doomed.

On your second point, I whole heartedly agree and that is why I was some what suspicious as how easy it was for her to talk about it. Maybe you need to watch it if you have not already.

Mehrdad

Sima & Mineum71

In order to understand the mentality that you're dealing with on thi site, and who is arguing with you, I suggest that you read my blog posting here:

//iranian.com/main/blog/anonymous111-2/iran-uprising-fear-mongering-obsolete-revolutionary-left

This whole paranoia and baseless accusation that there are "foreign elements" within the Green movement that are "fishing in muddy waters" is just waht is is: paranoia and baseless accusation. 

One should ask these characters (which I have on many occsaions-inlcuding my blog) to come up with their evidence to back up their accusations that the Greens are being infiltrated by the MKO, monarchsists, Israelis, the U.S., etc.  Not surprsingly, I am still waiting. :-).

Sima - Are you Iranian?!

It is common decency that when lies and fabrications are damaging the legitimacy of the Green movement in Iran and all sorts of charlatans are fishing in muddy waters, to examine evidence and substantiation as far as possible.   

It is interesting you assume I am a man, "Sima' khanoum!!!  I am actually woman and have worked with women and teated traumatised women in psychoanalytic psychotherapy.  

To those who doubt Maryam Sabri

Clearly you are only stating your suspicion. I have two things to say to that. First, It is common decency to refrain from belittling someone in the off chance (even in your own estimation) that she is telling the truth. It is common decency to have a bit of humility in the face of even the POSSIBILITY of the kind of ugliness and violence this woman talks about.

Second, as a woman I am troubled and very angry that any man would think that it is easy for a woman to face the public and speak of such extreme humiliation as rape. You know nothing about rape and rape victims. There are times that it is common decency to hold your peace.

MiNeum71- YOU tell me! You seem to be over 12 and not paranoid!

I did not deny and indeed acknowledged  torture and rape in Iranian jails. Did you read that?!  However I addressed some reasonable questions.  I would ask you to perhaps address those instead of throwing insults, if you are grown up and not paranoid!!

As I said, I have worked extensively and over a long period of time with women victims of rape and violence.  This composure is questionable. She just does not present as someone who has endured that sort of trauma, particularly so recently.  I also addressed the issue of naming her abusers.  If you have seen in the video, she consciously avoids naming them.  What are your thoughts about that?  Perhaps I am wrong but do you have any SPECULATIONS on the ISSUES I raised instead of speculating about ME?  That way it would be possible to think and discuss and understand and modify one's views instead of throwing insults in the wind!!

Of course we are disgusted and traumatized by the crimes committed in the IR but to take this movement forward as a moral and thinking movement it is crucial that we aspire for truth and critical questioning and judgement.    

@ Setareh Cheshmakzan

Paranoia or just 12 years old?

credible story?! I think not!

Thank you Bavafa.  When I saw this I thought exactly the same.  Likewise, I am not doubting that physical and psychological torture and rape occur in jails in Iran.  However, I have worked with women victims of rape and violence, and thought the same:

1. she seemed far too composed to be a recent victim of torture and rape.  

2. She was speaking to the VOA, so presumably she was out of Iran and safe!  She said she had seen her jailers/rapists and heard their names.  So why was she not naming them?!

As you say, this sort of fabrication is a disservice to the movement in Iran which is fighting for democracy, justice and transparency. 

Is this on Iranian TV or VOA?

She is supremely composed for having endured such rape and torture? Just wondering why is she not naming the individuals since they revealed their names.

I have no doubt such treatments have taken place, only her story is some what suspect and if so, those who try to fabricate stories do a huge disservices to the movement.

Credibility is some thing that is earned.

Mehrdad

Sick

No matter how many times you call IRI a sick perverted twisted system, it's not enough. Any idea what Ardeshir Omani and rest of the imprealist fighters think about this kind of thing?

More propaganda

Any pics like Abu Gharaib? Mousavi "has" the "majority" of the population on his side. Surely someone in the prison would sneak some pics out. *sarcasm*

درود بیکران بر مریم

دور نیست آنروزی که حضور مریم در هر مکانی در ایران بانی فخر فروشی آنجا شود. درود بر مریم که رخسارش تجلی سربلندی، رشادت و شرف زن ایرانی است. درود بر ایران که تا همچو مریم را دارد غم ندارد.