Iranian of the Day

Kharmagas Jan

I am not at all convinced that IR will reform as you hope. However because it is you saying it I will tell my Air Force and Navy to wait for a while :-) But if they don't reform in 12 months I am not sure I can keep them chained much longer. Dogs of war are chewing on their chains making my life miserable !!

The best way is reform! (to Peyghambar)

Peyghambar jaan, the best way is reform,...., reform through people such a your hamshari (Dr. Sahimi), Hamid Agha, Q the opportunist, ..., and some inside the system. Not that I agree with many of the $H!+ they say, and do, but one has to be pragmatic. Now come back and say "I don't buy that"!

A couple of things

• I have read "No Fear" post. He has no interest in ANY reform. He wants the IRI to stick around as is.
• The Shah regime did not fight back. We can debate the reasons. But I was around. Shah was very much listening to America. Carter withdrew support and Shah just gave in. The real murders were not done by the Shah. They were by Khomeini goons who burned Cinema Rex. One day there will ba a monument to that horrible action. The truth will come out and the blame will go to those who really did it.
• NP with all due respect I 100% disagree that IRI is reformable. The IRI leaders will jump on each other as soon as Khamenei is dead. They will tear each other up in their fight for power. No reform will happen. It will be nasty; violent and cost many lives.
• We already have foreign intervention: Hizbolah and Palestinians. A regime that imports foreign goons to kills its people is shit. That is Khamenei.
• The IRI is no longer Islamic if it ever really was. It has gone for idol worship with the idol being the VF. It has passed all bounds of sanity. Their fate is already sealed. By their own hand they had damned themselves. Good.

How Dumb!

Dear readers: You may not know or have forgotten that there was a revolution in 1979 to change things for the better. Take a good look at what has happened since then and see the bankrupt ideas of the staunch defenders and apologists of IR for yourselves. Dear readers: The lame-brain IR apologists here on this site can't understand the very basic facts about movements and those who participate in them. And do not know that even among each particular group there exist discrepancies that can be resolved only through temporary compromises along the way. You may not remember, but many groups and organizations which supported the 1979 revolution soon broke away from it when they saw their most essential demands for freedom and democracy were not met! Only half-baked analyses would ignore the fact that the majority of Iranians is demanding democracy and democratic freedoms while class interests are put on the back burner, temporarily, for the sake of unity. Look at the Green Movement and listen to the slogans by the tens of millions of people who poured into the streets in major cities of Iran. You hear political slogans. With skyrocketing inflation and high unemployment you would expect some slogans to be devoted to demands for jobs and bread and butter, but you would hardly hear any. And the movement was weakened greatly for the lack of coherent leadership and the huge differences that exist between people's demands and how far the Reformists are willing to go in their fight against the brutal regime. It is easy to understand such simple facts, but defenders and apologists of the regime distort, reduce and revise them to suit their own analyses of the status quo in Iran.

My dearest Medusa aka NP: that's also a description of

you yourself! When you so elequently say :"no fear is dedicated to regime change through reform. his dream is one
of a secular, laissez faire iran with all the left and mullahs exiled to
usa!" isn't that what you're all about?

A:keep on dearming.

B: The only thing your ilk,defenders of IR on this page, including but not limited to(NF, NP, Q, Sar Tah, Shotor, Molla& his family,...) are dedicated to is a constant, 24/7 distortion of basic facts of life in Iran; such as :daily death in Tehran, Mash'had, Isfahan,...due to smog: wholesale burning of Iranian jungles: repression of any and all dissent,unemployment, inflation,poverty, addiction, prostitution,... 

the truth (to tabriz and vpk)

sorry i couldnt respond earlier. this is quite an interesting development. we have rarely had someone like tabriz with a clear belief in islam agreeing so much with the conclusions of people like vpk here. it makes me glad to see that the latter, who spend a lot of their time attcking islam and muslims, have come to see that the problem is not necessarily with islam itself. many muslims the world over are strong supporters of democracy. point is: some like vpk imagine that the main 'goal' is to smash islam in iran. this is simply misguided. the main goal must be to work with muslims and non-muslims to promote democracy in iran.

my difference with most people here is on practicalities and what the 'truth' is. despite voting for moussavi myself, i don't believe that the greens won the elections last year. emotions aside, the proof is just not there. all the real analysis on the results - at least from what i have seen - points to a fair ahmadinejad victory. all the evidence and public opinion polls also show that the greens were not about regime change at all. it was all about power plays between different factions. 

tabriz, i am guessing that you are too young to have experienced the shah's regime. regardless, when iranians decided to get rid of him, there was no way he could resist. it is not as if his regime did not murder, rape or torture people in jail. iran was top of amnesty international's list of torture in the 70s.

i tried to demonstrate the lack of support for another regime change in iran by mentioning that iranian bazaaris were willing and unafraid to go on strike to fight taxes this year while they would not do the same for the greens. the same goes for the teachers, labourers, professionals, oil workers etc. nobody went on strike last year to support the greens or any particular candidate. you reckon it is because they were scared? all of them? and in a country that has a relatively recent history of revolutions and rioting?

to me, individual accounts of corruption or honesty do not constitute a judgement on the system itself. nor do they prove election results. let me give you a good example of what i mean: in my own extended family, we have had two very high ranking commanders in the sepah. one of them is a corrupt man who rose from dust to gold through his sepahi connections and owns a big house in northern tehran now. the other was a near-saint who lived a meek life of austerity despite his high rank. economically, he went in the opposite direction, coming from a fairly well-off background and living in his army barracks home when he passed away. 

neither of the two cases proves much other than the individual characteristics and experiences of the two people. 

finally, i think the iranian regime is divided and complex enough for reform to be possible. there are many competing factions, and it has to evolve and change through time or else it won't survive. 

tabriz, you cannot dismiss analyses of iran's election results so easily. yes we saw the demonstrations and the bloodshed. we have also seen similar events in thailand, ukraine, lebanon and other countries in recent years. in the case of iran, there is little reason to Believe that ahmadinejad cheated. it is just as convincingly plausible that the losing faction showed little real dedication to democratic principles and tried to overthrow an elected leader.

that last line of mine gets up people's noses around here real badly! but i don't mean to offend. am just stating what seems to me to be 'reality' of the situation, or at least a plausible scenario regardless of my own feelings.

vpk: no fear is dedicated to regime change through reform. his dream is one of a secular, laissez faire iran with all the left and mullahs exiled to usa! sargord does not see an ideal state in iran but warns against allowing outsiders to mess with it. they too are your potential allies! :)

peace

A Demagogue!

Robert Naimen is regurgitating what Ahmadinejad's defenders have been spouting in the aftermath of the stolen presidential election. He says: "What I wrote was that the case[of the stolen election]hadn't been proved." And continues later on by saying: "My interest as an American citizen[is]trying to reform US policy." If that is the issue, then he should shut up about whether the case had been proven or not. Is he blind? Didn't he see the tens of millions of Iranians in the streets of major cities of Iran protesting the outcome of the election? How else should the case be proven to the likes of Naimen?

Shades of green! (to Mossad jaan)

"Dabashi made a desprate try to get on the Green movement - and he was rejected.   FYI"

Are you now the spokesman for the green movement? I thought you were the spokesman for the war movement?

I have seen all 'shades of green' as Sahimi put, but yours stands out!!!

Marhoon Jaan

Dabashi made a desprate try to get on the Green movement - and he was rejected.   FYI

Many others did too - people like Hooman Majd, Reza Aslan, Trita Parsi, Ganji,........

Naiman outsmarting Dabashi!

Dabashi like many other greens, in a very inconsistent way wants the U.S to bring back the green movement to life,.....power,....., Robert is very smart and clearly sees that. Hamid Aghaa has to do much better to fool this guy.

bah bah dabashi joon

Kadivar is right - he needs to wake up - he looks as if totaly on opium........

Dear Professsssor Dabashi - How does Soros pay these days?  Still teaching at maryland U?   Waht are you teaching? Middle Eastern Studies?  What is that?  Does it include the pain and suffering of Iran and Iranians under ISlam?  or are you part of the team who prolongs the Islamic Republic upon Iran? 

Aghaye Tabriz balasi: You don't owe me any apology

As mentioned, I respect your religious belief and have no wish to change them. It is also refreshing to be able to carry a respectful discussion with one whose religious ideology is at odd with mine.

My own religious belief were not shaped by IRI, nor by the West. I have held this belief since I was a young person.

Mehrdad

Tabriz, please stick around !

You are honest, you are a devout muslim like most Iranins and you dont support the criminal actions of the velayate faghih regime, like most Iranians.  

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

IRI

There was a period where IRI elections had some legitimacy. This was chipped at by

• Restricting the candidates.
• Closing news papers.
• Intimidating the candidates

Despite this many people including myself grudgingly agreed there was some legitimacy. This all went out the door last AN "election". That was a turning point where IRI was faced with a choice:

• Allow Mousavi to become president
• Ignore the votes; force AN on an unwilling population,

For whatever reason Khamenei and others decided for AN. Thus destroying any semblance of legitimacy there was. After that I noticed a big change. Iranians I know who were on the fence rejected IRI. Those opposed to IRI became emboldened. Those supporting IRI becamse "Greens". The number of people openly supporting Khamenei and AN went to next to nothing. I also noticed many pious Muslims rejecting the Khamenei and VF regime.

Now this was the main blunder. Khamenei could have let Mousavi take power thus makeing IRI appear legitimate. It would have greately increased their shelf life. However that is tha path he chose. Now the only remaining path is force.

Bavafa a.k.a Mehrdad

I am still waitign for your apology after I proved you are a fantasists.

In your own time! 

Bavafa

I am sorry, it is a personal belief, but I can't help myself except to add something about Islam.  Action resides as the core of Islam.  In fact this is the reason why we will be Judged finally by the creator; it is because we are responsible for our actions, otherwise, Allah would not be fair to Judge us if we didn't have free will and intellect, and Allah is fair (aadel) according to the teachings of the Holy Quran. So, I am not going to let you get away with telling me that Muslims sit around and rely on a higher power; atleast that is not the right understanding of Islam.  We believe in the power that brought us here, gave us intellect and free will in order for us to act according to his beautiful names such as fairness (*Aadl*), kindness (*Rahmaan*), generocity (*Karim*) .  some people believe in God but they just don't know it, and some people think that they believe in God, but they don't know that in actuality they don't.  So, I hope you're from the first group. 

But, I realize that people don't like religious discussions, So I just want to appologize to you. Who did we learn Islam from anyways? Mr. Gharaati, Jannati, and the rest.  So, i'm not at all surprised why Iranians veiw Islam as a backward ideology.  and add to that the crimes of IR. i don't blame at all why Iranians don't believe in Islam anymore.  But since I have been isolated by myself in America, I had the clarity of mind to do an independant study and take a fresh look at Islam and the prophet of Islam and just fall in love with both.  I went through the same Religious classes in iran's highschools with Khomeini's picture in the first page!!! So, I know exactly why people see Islam as a bad thing, I don't blame them.  But I think I can handle people's dislike for me and my religion.. I rather gain Muhammad's approval than gain All the approvals of all the people on the planet. But I deserve one vote and I want my vote to count;  that is all I am asking for;  I will not foce anything on anyone;  and I respect you Bavafa;

be an act at all times in the name of Allah.

Aghaye Tabriz balasi: thanks for the response

Not a whole lot of difference of opinion here, perhaps a case of you say potaatoo, and I say potato

- I believe a high turn out for vote is a reflection of a desire for democracy and not necessarily the existence of one.

- I agree that the force might be the only method this regime will heed to, but I SO STRONGLY believe that such force need to come only within. Any force such as a US or Israeli war will only unite people around the regime and will set any opposition for years back. And if those forces were ever successful in removing this regime, only another one equal or worse will be installed.

- Lastly, this is a personal belief and matter. For me it is not a case of because I "don't believe in God to be the source of all good", I simply don't believe in God. I rather take responsibility for my own action rather then relay on a "higher power"

But as I said, it is a personal belief and all beliefs need to be respected equally.

Mehrdad

Bavafa

I just know that IR will only respond to force.  They view themselves are the absolute truth and therefore they will go to any extent to crush people.  Even though the elections have never been perfect in iran, but it is not fair to say that there was no democracy in Iran previous to Ahmadinejad era.  80% turn out in the last election tells you something; in my opinion it tells you that people cared about the outcome of this election.  But their votes were pushed under the rug and were not counted.  

I just know that IR will not go by any other mean.  I don't know who will use this force, in what form and how and when. I don't know the answer to these questions.  that is why i believe we're stuck with IR for a long time. But I am against US or Israel attaching iran.  the outcome of this will not be a democracy.. if anyhting, people themselves should do something.  You can't expect to know everything at once.  at the right time the options will be more clear.

you prefer to be an act at all time in the name of humanity because you don't believe in God to be the source of all good.  if you care about humanity's future it is only because God has created you to be kind because God is kind.  If he had created you as an evil man, then you would work to take advantage of people for your own gain.  Only God is abosulte, he is the one that guides you to the right path.  In the Quran, Humans are defines as best of creation, second to none, and God the creater has put his own spirit in you; even if you don't believe it.  You are a humanist ,right? so give a definition of humanity that gives
more value to humans than What I just described to you from the holy Quran.
If you succeed then you are right to be a humanist and I am wrong to be a muslim.  I believe that God is the perfect pivot that everything works according to and because of it; that is the only way I can ballance things in my mind, otherwise, i am lost for ever in the world of concepts and ideas, and right and wrong. forget about my believe, ok. I just need God atleast for one thing, and that is to remain sane in this crazy world.  Even if God is the greatest lie, this lie has more power than all of your truths combined.  and if it is true, then ok, it's true. and peace of Allah to the prophet of Islam for giving me this gift of faith, my most valuable thing in life.

be an act at all times in the name of Allah.

Aghaye Tabriz balasi:

Agree in general with your argument with some notes

Some what irrelevant to this discussion but I think we need to note that 'not counting peoples vote' has not been limited to only the last election but for the most part of IRI rule. It just was more blunt this time around.

Can you please qualify your thoughts when you refer to "that leaves only one option and that is Force and violence"

More specifically, how and who do you see such force should be involved in and to what extend?

Lastly, though only personal, I would hope to "be an act at all times in the name of humanity"

Mehrdad

Anti Regime

we are all anti-regime somehow. ,,,

No, we are NOT all anti-regime. There are many "No Fear"; "Shutruk"; "IRI"; "IranMilitaryForum"; "SP" who admit supporting the regime. They are full regime supporters. This is not my opinion it is their own position. 

There are also those who support the regime to various degrees. What bothers me is they go around claiming that ALL Muslims support IRI a blatant lie. They also claim IRI is the same as Iran; another blatant lie. They also tell us that opposition to IRI means anti-Iranian; another blatant lie. 

We need to be honest about our positions and not insult people's intelligence. This is not the 60s or 70s. Iranians are sophisticated and tell who is on which side. It is pretty obvious from one's positions and posts where they stand. Let us have a real discussion and make our positions known without pretense. 

VPK

PS,

The argument about Greens fizzling is nonsense. Tabriz already explained why. People do not like to be raped. The IRI has gone beyond all human decency. Khamenei is worse than Rajavi. The man is evil beyond beleif. He has neither respect for man or God. It is beyond my understanding how that creature looks at himself in mirror.

Niloufar..

I agree with you that there are rarely quick fixes to human problems.  but one think i don't agree with you is when you say some of the stuff you say, let's take two of the things you said:

1. "he level of support (from iranians inside iran) needed is not there for confrontation.

the reason that Iranians can't confront IR is NOT because of the level of their support for confrontation is not there.  it is because of two things. one: they are scared to be raped in the prisons, not scared of dying as much. Can you understand that????  another reason is that there is no real alternatives.  I don't know why.  maybe IR was smart enough to get rid of all its viable alternatives or maybe it is because there are none.  i want to know why there aren't any trustable alternatives, so if anyone can help us understand this.

2. "has to be in gradual reform".  Not anymore.  that would have been the case if IR played by some kind of rules.  gradual change requires a mechanism where by people can take baby steps based on their will power.  when they didn't count people's votes last year, they made it clear that they want only their way and they don't care about what people want, not even a bit.  so, i was supporting gradual change until the last elections but now things have changed.  Khamenie is not ready to  compromise even a bit.  that leaves only one option and that is Force and violence.  I am sorry, but I don't believe in gradual change anymore.  I am not haste either.  I think we're stuck with IR for a long time.  God bless Shah's soul, when he realized that people don't want him, he left.  We should praise Shah for that and all the service he did for the country.

be an act at all times in the name of Allah.

Roozbeh_Gilani

Very interesting that you meet with your sepahi friends.  I agree with you, i don't like to paint people with the same brush.  definitely there are a few apples that are supporting IR because of their pitty financial gains.  On the same lines, Ahmadinjed's first advisor (moavelene avval) in his first term is our friend or was our friend along time ago.  he got his phD from US;  that is when we met him; not me my parents; my parents say this guy was a very good and honest guy, maybe that is why he was put aside after Ahmadinejad's first term.  by the way, we have pictures with him, i was in his arms as a baby in these pictures.  I don't think he is bad, but anyone can become corrupt.  unfortunately humans are ver complex;  the say very good things before they get power, after they get power they change!!! power is a curropting force and here lies that reason to have a democratic system.  By the way, i agree with one thing that Shia Islam says and that is, in order for one person to be a dictator they have to be perfect. think about it.  it is true.  but the problem is there is no perfect man and that is why we have to go for democracy... but the IR instead of admitting that they are not perfect and therefore they don't have the right to be a dictator, instead they say that, you know what? we are prefect, we are from God, and you must listen to us.  it is a commedy. not a very funny one, a sad one.

be an act at all times in the name of Allah.

tabriz

thanks and my name is niloufar in this place but not in real life. it is not a good idea to write under one's real name in this place, in my view.

you read my message as 'what we should not do'. but this was not quite my intention.

use of force can be a legitimate way of getting rid of a system when there is adequate support for it. that's what took the revolution's legitimacy beyond question. 

we are all anti-regime somehow. but you have seen just in the past year and a half how the greens did not manage to get a general strike going, while the threat of taxation alone got the bazaaris to close shop for quite a period more recently. this also tells me that your assumption of a green victory last year may be mistaken.

point is that the level of support needed is not there for confrontation. the answer therefore has to be in gradual reform. i can see you have no patience for such talk, but beyond our shared frustrations, what alternative is there?

elsewhere i made a case for how i think peaceful relations with the world would help reforms in iran. as iranians abroad, i think anti-sanctions and anti-war activism would help iran grow into a democracy more quickly. for similar reasons, i think we should keep up the pressure on iran in relation to human rights in the shape of naming and shaming. i think there is a clear leader available for this latter task: shirin ebadi.

but there are no quick fixes around. those who allow their impatience or passion get the better of them and act against the interests of iranian people are being shortsighted and selfish.

and they are being unethical.

i support the virtues that you epouse in your message to sargord, though my support would be from a humanist perspective. still, this is irrelevant because it is the shared values that lead to democracy.

Dear Tabriz_balasi

I appreciate your comments. and you are very right. But you probably misunderstood me. Just to clear the air, some of my best friends from high school days back home are now Sepah members and solid supportters of the islamisc republic. I visit them every year when I go home and they know my views, dont like it, but they know where I come from. Yet not a single one of them suppurts islamist regime's criminal actions against it's own citizens (especially after last year elections) or try to justify them  in this kniving way that people like "niloofar-farsi" do. Here in US I have friends who are monarchists, JM, or just dont care! I and you both know that vast majority of Iranians are devout muslims, yet do not like what this fascist regime is doing in the name of their religion. 

Having said that, when it comes to debating, I have draw a line which I never cross. On one side of the line are people who typically disagree with me, and do not even have to be Iranian, otherwise they just speak their minds. On the otherside of the line are criminals who's hands are tainted with the blood of Iranians, or the ones who speak on their behalf for financial gains. This type can be only spoken to and will be spoken to in a court of Iranian people set up after the corrupt islamist regime is overthrown.

Iran belongs to all of us, no matter what our political beliefs. I am fighting for a future Iran where everyone would have the right to express his views, believe in his own religion, free of fear of jail or torture. Where everyone has a secure job, housing, food and free education. Where children grow up happy and care free, do not have to grow up seeing their parents jailed , tortured for their patriotism. In short an Iran free of dictators, be it shah or shikh. I am not against islam.

I hope it is clear now, 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Roozbeh

I assume Niloofar is an Iranian and she is just expressing her opinion and she raised good points.  Sargord on the other hand is just too unfair and he has said it himself that he consideres himself an American (or Iranian-American).  But debating helps us to understand our own positions on issues better.  it is not to defeat them or get rid of them.  we should take this opportunity to train our minds to think analytically and at the same time show compassion towards one another. this shouldn't become grounds to hate one another and dismiss one another.  Maybe to you they are so unreasonable that they must be getting paid to say stuff like that.  I understand that feeling, but maybe that is not the case.  Maybe you haven't taken enough effort to get in the mind of other people and see how they see.  It would be a very strange world if everyone thought alike.  assume everyone thought the same.  Now if everyone was right then that would turn out to be a very boring life, woudn't it.  i would feel like birds trying to pass the atlantic ocean.  on the other hand, if everyone was wrong, then that wouldn't be good at all, eveyone would fall in the same hole at the same time.  But differences of opinion are not only interesting but it helps us grow and become better.  we learn from one another and we compete with each other and in the process we improve ourselves.  that is why differences of opinion should become a fundamental principle.  I am not lecturing you,  I am reminding this to myself, I know that you know all this and might need some reminding; and I know there are some people that maybe actualy getting paid, but we don't know that for sure. I think with the right approach we can presuade others or we can be persuaded by others. let's just be fair. it is all about how far your mind can see and how much of it you can show other person, or learn from the other person.

be an act at all times in the name of Allah.

people who are against sanctions on this blog....

with user ID's such as "niloofar farsi" and "sargord firooz" are saying what they say because they are paid by the islamist regime to spread propoganda and lies on internet. They hate Iran and Iranian people. Hence they are not to be trusted or engaged in any form of debate. 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

tabriz_balasi

thank you for saying what I was trying to say. I agree with all your points except you did a better job explaining than I did.

Good job my friend and thanks.

NP

I am not going to argue whether sanctions work. I will argue that it is possible to be pro democracy and pro sanctions. We should not be so exclusive that is either our way or the highway. Many good people have different ideas.

Niloufar..

Niloufar, you have a pretty name, if that is your name.  I agree with all the points you made.  You told us what doesn't work, sanctions doesn't work, war doesn't work, ok.  Now tell us what works. Our problem, the people's problem is that we're being disrespected by a gang that claims to be holy; our votes are not being counted; we have no freedom of speech;  and the country is run by people that must accept Khamenie is God's hand on earth.  Many people hope that US can bring IR down, because the people can't (since IR is very good in using force and slander), i might disagree with them, but they have a point, i don't think they are crazy or bad.  So, tell us what you think will get rid of this gang or change them.  i don't think we can change them.  i believe only with force we can defeat IR because that is the only language they understand (killing, raping, slandering = IR).  so people here that root for US to be successful might have a point.  don't you think? I think sactions are eligal, but they are hurting Sepah which takes alot of Iran's contruction and telecomunication project unfairly.  sanctions hurt people too, the wrong economic policies of IR hurts people too, iranian people are hurting, it is true.

be an act at all times in the name of Allah.

because vpk

the sanctions harm support for democracy in iran since they harm the general public, not the regime. support for sanctions is support for american desires for hegemony. yet america is on a constant losing streak when it comes to power these days.

what many supporters of sanctions don't realise is that their
guaranteed failure to achieve stated aims also pushes everyone toward
war.

war, on the other hand, May lead to democracy if iran is totally defeated. this is the german parallel you are making. but there is no guarantee of a total defeat or democracy.  on top of this, war is the biggest crime against humanity - negates the right to life itself - on a scale that outweighs the benefits of democracy. no sane person would wish for war on their own people. not saying that you would, btw.