Misc

دمشون گرم

دمشون گرم.هر پیشرفتی ، حتی یه ذره باعث افتخاره. تا بسوزه اونجای اونایی که نمی تونن ببینن

Another IMF masterpiece

FYI, biotechnology and nanotechnology and robotics were not even industries 30 years ago, and were only beginning as research areas. You might as well blame the Shah for not having digital cameras!

And furthermore, all of the "Iranian technologies" you brag about are also imported first by bending over to N Korea, China, and Russia, then further developed afterwards. So much for not bending over.

Indeed, doroogh keh maliate nadareh...

-Fair

یک مشت بی‌ ملیت نامرد صبح تا شب به ایران و ایرانی‌

یک مشت بی‌ ملیت نامرد صبح تا شب به ایران و ایرانی‌ و به اسم ایران و ایرانی‌ دروغ میگن و حقه بازی می‌کنن که پول خون مردم رو با مزد اضافه بگیرن. حالا یکی‌ با اسم گروهبان قند علی‌ میاد، اون یکی‌ با اسم فروم ارتش مزدور یا گارد همیشه نوکر. به یک فرمی باید همه چی‌ رو به یک چیز دیگه ببندند که از حماس و حزب‌ا‌لله یا احمق الله‌هایی‌ که به دختر و پسرهای بیگناه تو زندان تجاوز می‌کنن حمایت کنن. بعدش تازه تیراهن‌هاشون رو یه جوری بنویسین که به نظر بیاد این حرفارو یه آدم داره می‌زنه. اینا اگه شرف یا ایرانیت داشتن که دیگه این همه بازی نداشتن.

حالا یا راجع به این کشتی تکنولوژی عهد دوغ باشه، یا نیروی اتمیش که هنوز نتونستن پروژهٔ قبل از انقلاب رو تموم کنه. که بدون این مجرمها و قاتلها ایران میتونست بهترین مدلهاش رو بیست سال پیش درست کنه. هر جا هم که گیر کرد تقصیر یکی‌ دیگه بندازه یا ننه من غریبم کنه، یا اگه اتفاقی قابل عرضه از آب در اومد به افتخار اسلام بذاره و پولاشم ببره تو همون کشورهایی که صبح تا شب بهش فحش میده. یه مشت الاغ هم بالاخره همه جا پیدا می‌شه که از روی باور دنبال اینا راه بیفته یا سنگشونو به سینه بزنه. چن تا شون هم که اینجان خیال می‌کنن علی‌ آباد هم شهریه وو هی‌ جولون میدن

IMF's bizzaro world

is one where you are either a US puppet and bend over for them, or you are independent and you cannot have any relations with them.

IMF, your view and information are so pathetic it is getting boring to argue with your bogus propaganda.

Iran is no less dependent today on foreign technology than it was in 1979. If you are arguing otherwise, once again, you are smoking some real good stuff. If Iran wants to get 2010 technology, it still has to import it. It has to "bend over" by your definition today as well- to Russia, who just turns around and steals its money.

Iran could have easily also tried in 1975 to build a plane or a ship from 1935, and then claimed "independence", except it would have been a silly and empty one, the kind you brag about today.

So tell me something- Is India or Turkey or South Korea "bending over" to the west today? Or do all of the above have strong alliances with the west, strong industries that they build up taking full advantage of that alliance and that relation, and that both the west and these respective countries benefited?

Of course I don't expect insincere people like you who are only interested in making noise and empty propaganda to actually respond meaningfully to such a question, but that is my point.

You call it "bending over". But as far as I am concerned, the last Shah of Iran pursued a military and defence policy much more in the interest of Iran and Iranians than morons like these mullahs and their pathetic supporters like you ever will. Thanks to that policy we did not become invaded like Afghanistan, and Khuzistan is still part of Iran.

Pathetic Islamic fascists however, completely gave up huge chunks of the Caspian sea, but have their "military" in places like Lebanon, which has absolutely no strategic or economic or military value for Iran at all.

I will let Iranians who read this decide who is doing the bending over for whom. As far as foreign stateless terrorists like you and Hezbollah, I really don't care what you think. I am Iranian and concerned with Iran, not south Lebanon.

-Fair

IMF -What are you doing here?

you should be in the "News" section posting BS from Pakistan Daily Star about someone farting in Ramallah.  

Anyway, when you say:

 your wish for Iran is simply a nation of "bend overs". Luckily, Iranians flushed that sort of "traitor thinking" thirty one years ago and accepted the rough road ahead to national independence.  If it was up to you, Iran would have the latest F-16s , F-18s and so on but being at the service of foreign governments per your perscription! Today, suppose that we use mostely thirty year old weapons that we refurbish and upgrade with litte help from anyone and guess what, the biggest powers do not dare to attack Iran. You go figure why? Hint: It is not because they care for Iranian lives or human rights nor it is because they think our wepons are worthless!

You mean when the IRI "bent over" to the Israelis so that Israel can sell it weapons at ten times the market price, right?  Like here:

 //www.wrmea.com/backissues/1186/8611002.html

And aren't the "big powers" not attacking Iran because the IRI is bending over to them like the whore that it is every day?  $800.00 million to Russia for S-300's that will never be delivered.  Half price oil to China and give away "contracts" to the Chinese?  Back door deals with Israel, selling the Palestinians down the river every day inside and out?  That's what you mean, right?

Give it up "dude" (what are you, 15?).  Only a non-Iranian South Lebanese loser like you would spread IRI propaganda about its failures and tries to make those failures look like accomplishments.

Abarmard

Read my comment in its entirety, I said US in a war with Israel will beat Israel. Why compare fire power of Iran with Israel.

Thanks. I am still not sure what your point is. The US will probably beat any nation in a standard war.

Look why does Iran want a ship? Is it for show or to fight someone? The only someone will be the US. That is why we are comparing them. 

Divaneh, Dourogh Ke maliat Nadareh

Now that you are at it, why not to mention other Iranian technologies that were created by the Shah before the revolution such as SSMs, satellite and serospace, biotechnology, nano-technology, Robotics, and so on. In fact, as this proverb says " Douroogh Ke Maliate Nadareh", the sun and the moon the air and the oceans were all already there before the revolution too!!!!

Fair

How interesting some people like you here immediately resort to name calling when you show nothing but a depleted bucket of knowledge.

Since by all indications I was the target of your post, then you deserve my response.

Some like you aspire to have a nation that is a "servant" and not one that stands on its own for its own interests. Iranian military during the Shah was nothing but a massive force created to defend US interests with very expensive weapons paid by Iranian taxpayers. 

Iran had to import RPG-7 at very high costs because of stupid policies
by the IRI- they suddenly put Iran in a position where its entire
weapons inventory and system had to be changed to an eastern one, and
you better believe you will pay a huge premium when that happens.

So dude, since you do claim to know history, how could Iran stay independent if we had to bend over to the US to eternity simply to make sure our US built supplies would never get cut off? In fact, that is exactly what happened, Iran did not go US way and guess what, Saddam got plenty of encouragements from the US to attack Iran and he did. This all was suppoesed to play out that way since Iran, for whatever reason, decided to be an independent nation and had to be taught a lesson forced to have a devastating war just to provr to Iranians who the real boss was? Yes, of course if Iran was still serving the US inerests and that of Israel, Iran would be getting massive amounts of parts and weapons much like what is happening to Pakistan as we speak. Heck, If we were still a US satellite, te war wuld have never happened and some like you believe tht is just fine policy!!!!!

Sir, your wish for Iran is simply a nation of "bend overs". Luckily, Iranians flushed that sort of "traitor thinking" thirty one years ago and accepted the rough road ahead to national independence.  If it was up to you, Iran would have the latest F-16s , F-18s and so on but being at the service of foreign governments per your perscription! Today, suppose that we use mostely thirty year old weapons that we refurbish and upgrade with litte help from anyone and guess what, the biggest powers do not dare to attack Iran. You go figure why? Hint: It is not because they care for Iranian lives or human rights nor it is because they think our wepons are worthless!

Sorr to spoil your "propaganda" and attempt to rewriting history!

IMF - You have AD - let me tell u what happened

You say: If we did have "strong Iranian military industry" we would not have been in such a misreable state against Iraqis when we did not have enough spares........................BS.

The reason the Iranian military did poorly, in the beginning, was because Khomeini side-lined the regular military brass and gave the military reins to hazrat Abol-fazl who supposedly rode around on a white horse at night with phosphorus paint so that he would glow in the dark on the battlefields (YOU THOUGHT THAT WE FORGOT HAZRAT ABOL-FAZL?). 

When hazrat Abol-fazl was shot by a regular Iranian army soldier and Khomeini saw the embarrassment morally and on the battlefields, he had to drink his first cup of poison (but not enough to kill him this time) and recalled  the regular army who made brilliant moves against Iraqis.  But, unfortunately, the embargo was on and your Khomeini had to kiss Israeli behind to get the parts (REMEMBER THE ARMS FOR HOSTAGES DEAL?). 

After that, due to the logistics info that the west gave to the Iraqis, the battles turned out to be world war I type stalements and Khomeini had to drink his second cup of poison which rid the world of his holy presence as well as the war.

We have gotten older, but unlike some of you Islamists, we don't have Alzheimer’s disease, still have our faculties and remember Shtuff.  You and your buddy SP are desecrating the regular Iranian army by pretending to be army experts, but we know that you are Islamists hiding behind the military facade.  And, if anyone is interested in seeing what you all wear, visit:

//cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/50693304.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=4996399091E83186BFFB0AAB9D7E43677497451F39BA9143

and see the man in faux-uniform in front of the line.

Thank you Fair and VPK

All the industries that we are proud of were brought into Iran at the time of the late Shah. Petrochemical, Steel, Aluminium, Copper, lead and all other plants producing primary materials which are fundamental to industrialization were opened before revolution. Automotive, Electronics, nuclear, food processing and a host of other technologies that have served the country are the result of constructive policies of Shah's government. Credit has to be given when it is due.

And you are right that we would have been far more advanced today if it was not for the revolution and backward mullahs. For those who can remember, Iranians were not below poverty line.

There is not a damn thing

There is not a damn thing Jomhuri Islami can do against even the weakest country in the World. All Jomhuri Islami is capable of doing is killing innocent unarmed Iranians. 

 Jomhuri Islami makes inferior military warfare machines with bad QC, this destroyer might only destroy Jamaron with hopefully Khamenei and the rest of the moozdoorane Sepah and A N in it!

And, of course their war strategies would be the same strategy as they are running the country like it is 1400 years ago. I’ll bet they will fight like when Hosain fought with Yazid in Karbala, cuz from the top to the bottom are buch of morons.

Veiled Prophet of Khorasan you misunderstood

Read my comment in its entirety, I said US in a war with Israel will beat Israel. Why compare fire power of Iran with Israel.

PS, I read my comment again, I skipped a few words. I meant if US gets in a war with Israel, Sorry for the confusion. 

Silly IranMilitaryForum

How about following up with current events instead of pulling up 2 year old articles.

 //www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bal-ed.stimulus0219,0,7566912.story

And how about actually reading about the stimulus package instead of throwing the usual talking points that just point out the negatives?

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009

 It's far from perfect, but its not as bad and simplistic as some make it out to be. 

Since you diverted from the actual point, i will reiterrrate it. the US can spend money on such projects AND the wars.  I would figure you bring up how China "owns" the US. 

Now, IRI while under sanctions, high and probably underestimated unemployment, high poverty is spending money on revamping outdated tech which will never be able to compete against such overwhelmingly advanced technology on the battlefield.   They know this.  That's why we see so much propaganda surrounding "achievements", because the propaganda is far more usefel than the tactical usage.

 By the way, how much did the IRI spend on the Bahman 22 Circus?

Abarmard and IMF

this is not about Islamic Republic of
Iran, but also about Iranians and Iran.

That is exactly why some are so pissed off here!

Sure, we can just pretend that the BS you feed here is true and waive the flag and feel good about ourselves.

But it would be based on a lie.

It seems you have no problem with that. I do.

-Fair

Abarmard

We are speaking about a country that thirty years ago could not produce one single needle.

This is just ridiculous and you know it. In 1979, Iran produced cars that were contemporary, and competetive with international standards, and South Korea sent engineers and managers to learn the lessons of building an auto industry in a developing country. Today Iran builds a large number of obsolete cars and many of them are assembled South Korean cars under license. Same goes for Iranian appliances and electronics, and on and on. Look at Samsung today vs 1979, and look at IEI or Pars Toshiba today vs. 1979. Need I say more?

Every major industry that you say Iran should be proud of because it has today existed already in 1979- helicopters, cars, electronics, nuclear power, etc. etc. Except then they were actually on track to make decent products that other people would actually be willing to buy in large numbers, and today they make propaganda projects to showcase on IRIB.

That is hardly what I would call "couldn't build a needle". Please do not be disingenuous.

-Fair

Abarmand

And finally as mentioned earlier, this is not about Islamic Republic of
Iran, but also about Iranians and Iran.

That is exactly why some are so pissed off here! 

Propaganda vs. Reality

Anybody who says that the Iranian military industries being built by 1979 was poorly planned and the military industry today is on the right track and giving us "self sufficieny" is either knowingly lying or just downright ignorant or smoking some really good stuff. Of course those who are saying this now have made their ignorance well known in the past as well.

Same goes for comparing the Imperial Iranian armed forces to those of KSA or GCC today. There is absolutely no comparison. Iranians in the previous regime made it a very strong point to master the operation and the technology of the weapons they acquired themselves BEFORE the revolution, and the war experience showed the proof of this very well. Iran had to import RPG-7 at very high costs because of stupid policies by the IRI- they suddenly put Iran in a position where its entire weapons inventory and system had to be changed to an eastern one, and you better believe you will pay a huge premium when that happens. Otherwise, Iran was building much better anti tank weapons before the Islamic fascists took over- hint: the TOW, which is still a key weapon in Iran today which has been reverse engineered.

The main reason many Iranians lost their lives was the anti Iran policies of Khomeini, who had absolutely no regard for the consequences of his stupid actions and policies. This damaged Iranian military way more than the lack of any spare parts. This is just a hard reality that no one can deny.

Now keep trying to rewrite history and supplant reality with your bogus propaganda. It won't work.

-Fair

IG, don't twist what I say

I never say suspend our armament industry. I say that it is not enough, and that we must import more modern weapons and update our military if we want to be viable in the region.

Furthermore, you can live with an adequate car with 40 year old technology like Paykan and it will server your purpose. But with weapons it is a different story- it either holds up in battle (which this boat won't) or it is a piece of junk , just target practice for others.

Like I said, you don't even need the USN to take this out, the Saudi Arabian Navy could locate it and seek it in minutes, and Iran can do nothing to stop them. So this is not a good strategy, and once again mullahs are playing with the security of Iran, and taking risks that poor innocent Iranians will pay for. Just like the war with Iraq.

-Fair

Bomb Power!

The other night there was this guy Garry Willis on Charlie Rose. He is the author of this book called "Bomb Power":

//www.amazon.com/Bomb-Power-Presidency-National-Security/dp/1594202400/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266630286&sr=1-1

He said that the president is not the commander-in-chief! So much for US armed forces. As far as Israelis are concerned I am sure they are perfectly capable of doing something irrational in order to get US involved but on their own they should first push out the Palestinians from Gaza and West Bank which is historically Jewish land!

Abarmard

If US wants to go into a real war, Israel will be wiped out in just one
day. Is that how you recognize accomplishments? based on US vs. Iran?

This a very irresponsible statement. It is this bravado that IRI feeds upon. Do you think Israel is going to be wiped out with what? A thousand scud missiles? If so how do you think they will react. Do you want them to nuke Iran?  I shudder to think there are people who dream of this sort of thing.

Let's say it this way, how many countries are capable of producing a sophisticated machine as such? How many countries can achieve as Iran has in such short period?

I would say almost every single European nation. Canada; Mexico; Japan; India; South Korea; Taiwan; China and US plus a good part of Latin Americans. See it is not as big a deal as you think. Nevertheless hey it is an accomplishment.

We are speaking about a country that thirty years ago could not produce one single needle.

Nonsense. I live there 30 years ago and Iran produced a lot more than needles. In fact if it was not for the revolution it would be making much more now. The IRR has done nothing to advance Iran. Their cultural revolution put us back greatly.

MM

Your point is well taken.  But, it was Arteshbod Hasan Toofanian who,
with the Shah's backing, built a strong Iranian Military Industries
Complex.  This complex was able to hire competent personnel as
well as to acquire the latest technologies from Bell helicopter, tank
parts to even batteries, pre-1979. 

Don't make me laugh at your pool of inaccurate knowledge.  If we did have "strong Iranian military industry" we would not have been in such a misreable state against Iraqis when we did not have enough spares of any kind for the military gear. The military empire built by the Shah was not at all an autonomous one. The US was controlling all the strings. In fact, Iran then was the Saudi Arabia today, a fat cat to sell the most expensive weapons to but, neverteless, be at the US mercy.Did any one pay attention the performance of Saudi Arabian armed forces when Saddam attacked them in 1991? Saudis were  desperate and could not hold out a few T-72 tanks without the massive US support. That is exactly how such strategies are planned and Shah's armed forces were no difference.  The whole intension for Shah's armed forces were to be the policemen of the west and not for Iran or Iranians.

The military that is independent and can provide adequate supplies to its armed forces is the only survivable military. 

These Islamists inherited a great organization with competent people
that went on to resist the Iraqi invasion, to now, reverse-engineer the
70's technologies that Iran did not have. 

True Iranian armed forces were well trained with a good organization. But because it was at the peril of the US, a great many Iranians lost their lives before Iran managed to start to manufacture "some" of its badly needed eaquipment. As a reminder, Iran had to import RPG-7 with at very high costs. That woud tell you how bad the Shah's planning was!

This is the Upgraded Version with An Engine to Replace Oars

This destroyer has electricity (and it can operate 24/7 unlike Tehran).

All Sailors are equipt with standard steel pipes (to beat foreign protestors).

It comes with prison cells ( to store all journalists, bloggers and university faculties).

And can disrupt cell phones (so enemy can not text each other)

Also comes with a compass (to locate mecca at prayer time).

It has a red telephone to speak directly with gods representative on earth, who is in constant contact with god himself.

Well done!!!!!!

thexmaster

 What a stupid statement. Didn't the US create a stimulus package over
$800 billion, and is working a job stimulus package along with running
two wars.  US has the money. 

So it's not really as simple as leaving Iraq/War afghanistan = job
creation.  Besides, wars create jobs.  I don't even think you're from
the US when you make such a silly statement.

Then I must say you are sleeping while living in the US. The $800 billion  was paid to the bankers to fatten their bonuses not to lend money to the Americans.  A year on after spending $800 Billion and people are still being let go in their jobs!

Iraq/Afghanestan wars have consumed 15 Billion a month!

(//www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...)

The reality is that you are neither here nor there but have a heck of appetite to make silly statements.

Time to wake up!!!! ;-))

Iran has been assembling helicopters 4 over 40 yrs. I worked 4

Bell helicopters in Iran in the 70s. I am not surprised if they built this destroyer. However, I call it assembly. All the radars and electronics are coming from some other countries. However, that's how today's world goes around. Airplanes, cars all assembled using parts from different countries or companies. No country or company makes everything by itself anymore! Everything is specialized.

This ship can be destroyed by the US in one minute, if they want to. Look at Iraq and see how they destroyed the whole army in matter of days. However, to occupy it, they had to use foot soldiers and that's where they got in trouble as they would with Iran.

Iran has very smart, educated and hard working people who could achieve much more than they have achieved under this regime. If it wasn't for the failure of this regime, we would have been doing much better than S. Korea. We have so much potential and talents that are wasted under this regime.

We deserve much more than this! This is so sad to only achieve this in the last 30 years, when 10 years ago, china was nothing, peasants! Are we less than chinese & koreans! NO! WE NEED FREEDOM AND FREE MARKET TO MAXIMIZE OUR POTENTIALS!

Of course they had to build this destroyer so they could steal a lot of money in its name. You cannot simply steal, unless you have a project to overcharge.

As for $800 billion comment - C'mon they ripped off the tax payers and most of the money went to the same banks and insurance companies that caused the collapse. THE ZIONIST MAFIA & Associates (GREENSAPAN, LEVETT, Rubin.....).   Google: Money masters, rothchild family! 

Hovakhshatare - the Islamists need to thank Arteshbod Toofanian

Your point is well taken.  But, it was Arteshbod Hasan Toofanian who, with the Shah's backing, built a strong Iranian Military Industries Complex.  This complex was able to hire competent personnel as well as to acquire the latest technologies from Bell helicopter, tank parts to even batteries, pre-1979. 

These Islamists inherited a great organization with competent people that went on to resist the Iraqi invasion, to now, reverse-engineer the 70's technologies that Iran did not have.

Perhaps it's not the show of military might

But engineering ability. Be proud of accomplishments. This is not about the US might against the Iranian military. If US wants to go into a real war, Israel will be wiped out in just one day. Is that how you recognize accomplishments? based on US vs. Iran?
Let's say it this way, how many countries are capable of producing a sophisticated machine as such? How many countries can achieve as Iran has in such short period?
Perhaps it is possible that this can be done by other nations, although with all the resources, many do not have the infrastructure and engineering know how, and know who, to connect the necessary pieces in order to get a project of this size done. We are not talking about capabilities and technologies of the US, or Germany. Of course not. We are speaking about a country that thirty years ago could not produce one single needle.

The show here is not that Iran has created a war ship to fight against the enemies, but to design, implement, test, produce the complete life cycle of a gigantic project, successfully. Technological knowhow, using top engineers, managers, IT personnel, workers in a successful way. Something that many countries, to your surprise, are incapable of accomplishing.

I tell you what, if I were the US, I would think twice before getting in to action with Iran, because it's not always about what you got, but what you are capable of.
Next time you want to compare Iran against the US, do so with most powerful nations and see how foolish that comparison would be. Since the objective of US attacking Iran is different that Iran defending itself, you should think strategy in a whole new way.

And finally as mentioned earlier, this is not about Islamic Republic of Iran, but also about Iranians and Iran.

درود بر ایرانیانی که با وجود امکانات کم، دزدیها و تقلبها هنوز

درود بر ایرانیانی که با وجود امکانات کم، دزدیها و تقلبها هنوز توانایی این را دارند که هر از چند گاه قابلیت خود را نشان دهند.

ولی‌ بر خلاف چرت و پرتهای امثال گروهبان قند علی‌ و گارد همیشه نوکر، کاربرد این نوع قایق‌های مسلح در مقابل هواپیماهای جنگندهٔ مدرن یا قدرت آتش ناوهای انترپریز بسیار محدود است. تکنولوژی قدیمیش را هم ندید بگیریم.

این هم مثل نیروی اتمی‌‌شان است که بعد از سالها تأخیر و به ده برابر قیمت با استفاده از تکنولوژی کم کیفیت چینی‌ یا روسی و کمک کره‌ شمالی و غیره تهیه شده و مثل مقابلهٔ یک ژیان با پورشه میماند. آموزش حرفه‌ای ملوانان و دریا داران که پولش را دزدیدند و اضافه ش را هم صرف حماس و حزب‌ا‌لله کردند کاری نداریم.

بدبختی اینجاست که جزای تمام این رقاص بازیها و غلط زیادی کردن‌ها را مردم رنج دیدهٔ ایران پس خواهند داد، نه این شیادان حرام زده که با پول و شرف یک ملت شکرهایی میخورند که پدرهای پفیوز و مادران هر جایی‌ یشان حتا خواب کثیفش را نمیدیدند و در بهترین رویا‌هایشان تصور نمی‌کردند.

Ever since I was hypnotized by

Ahmadinejad's halo, I also believed in the might of the IRI military.  I forced myself to believe it, because it was the patriotic thing to do.  All those petty achievements by the IRI seemed glorious.   But deep down, I new it was BS.  All this talk about s-300 alternatives, stealth fighters, it's all a facade for the IRI failures.  All these people like Sargord and kermanshah1 are still hypnotized by Ahmadinejads halo.  They see a lion, when all there is is a cat.  

Re: Matter of one week

Right. Even a well maintained navy the size of Irans would not do much better. The US spends over 100 times on military than IRI. US is decades ahead in technology.

This is not a matter of dispute it is documented fact. Only a fool would go against a military with 100 time greater budget and 40 years ahead.

Re: Good experience but useless ship

I agree with this post 100%. Naval warfare requires a whole system. Putting a ship out there without air cover and other support makes it a sitting duck. Just see what happened to the American ship Stark when 2 Exocet missiles hit it.

But Iran did get some good experience out of this. No disputing that.