Current Events

IRANIAN WOMAN ARRESTED - Didn't *Hike* Across a War Zone

 The story of an Iranian woman arrested for spying is below after I saw the passing (and somewhat dismissive) reference to her in Reality-Bites' post.  What strikes me is that I don't see any of the "Iranian" posters on here who are persistently making a fuss about the 3 hikers, complain about the Iranian woman's issues relating to her arrest (which are far more shocking than the 3 hikers' case).  What's interesting about Shahrzad Mir-Gholikham is that she was arrested for what her husband allegedly did; she was threatened by authorities in the U.S.; her family was not allowed to visit her; she was given no trial (she was convicted in absentia); and not a single "Iranian" posting on this thread is raising these issues.  My opinion is that these "Iranians" that don't apply standards even-handedly have zero credibility and some of them are likely pushing the agendas of other countries.  Here's the story ...

According to the Miami Times:  

'Shahrzad was surprised to see soap in the bathrooms of the new prison since the health and hygiene conditions of her previous jails were terrible.'

 Shahrzad's family have had no response from America to their requests for visas to visit Shahrzad, which were sent through the U.S. embassy in Oman. Her parents and twin daughters have been denied the opportunity to visit Shahrzad in jail.

Shahrzad was originally arrested in Austria and served a 28 day sentence in Vienna for her involvement in her ex-husband's alleged attempt to purchase night goggles. However the U.S. court also sentenced her to five years in absentia and arrested her when she arrived on a valid American visa.

Shahrzad was accused of being an Iranian spy, a charge she denies. She maintains she was offered a 'time served' sentence which was reneged on. Prosecutor Mike Walleisa described Shahrzad, 26 at the time of her trial, as intelligent, resourceful, cunning, manipulative, deceitful, and independent" according to the Miami Times.

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Where's the media coverage while this woman (a mother of 2) has been sitting in prison?

Where's are Amnesty International's world wide protests while she has been incarcerated for several years?

 What did any of the whiners persistently complaining about the 3 *hikers* say about this Iranian woman's tragic predicament?

Human rights group condemns jailing of US hikers in Iran

The conviction of two Americans held in Iran for spying and illegally crossing the border has been condemned by a human rights group.

Amnesty International said the eight-year jail sentences for Shane Bauer and Josh Fattal, both 29, made a "mockery of justice" and were designed to be used as "a bargaining chip to allow Iran to obtain unspecified concessions from the US government".

A court sentenced the two men to three years each for illegally entering Iran and further five years each for espionage, it emerged over the weekend.

"The conduct of this trial has quite simply made a mockery of justice. There does not appear to be any substance to the allegations that Shane Bauer and Josh Fattal are spies," said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty's Middle East director.

He described the trial as "deeply flawed" and said there was no evidence known to have been presented to suggest the pair were conducting espionage in Iran.

"They have already spent over two years waiting for justice. The Iranian authorities should take act now and release these two men now without further delay," added Smart.

Iranian security forces arrested Bauer and Fattal, along with their friend Sarah Shourd, in July 2009, after they walked across an unmarked border between Iran and Iraqi Kurdistan. Their conviction came as a surprise to their families, who were expecting them to be released. Shourd, 33, who got engaged to Bauer while in jail, was released last September on health grounds and after paying $500,000 (£324,000) bail.

Supporters of the three Americans say they unwittingly crossed the unmarked border while hiking but Iran accused them of spying. It is unclear whether the three were captured in Iranian territory or whether Iranian forces went into Iraq to arrest them.

After their trials ended last month behind closed doors, officials from Iran's foreign ministry signalled that the two would be freed on the eve of Ramadan.

The contrast between the trial's outcome and official promises highlights a growing rift between the judiciary, whose head is appointed by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's government. Some analysts believe Shourd was released after an intervention from the president's chief of staff, Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei.

The long sentences given to Bauer and Fattal can also be interpreted as a tit-for-tat response to the US state department's assessment, announced last week, that Iran remained the world's top state sponsor of terrorism.

In reaction to the handling of the trial, some conservative websites sympathetic to the regime in Tehran have mentioned the case of Shahrzad Mir Gholikhan, an Iranian woman in jail in the US on charges of attempting to smuggle night-vision goggles to Iran, which suggests that Iranian officials might be pursuing her release in exchange for those of the Americans.

According to Iran's Irna state news, the intelligence minister, Heydar Moslehi, said on Sunday that Bauer and Fattal "entered the country with prior planning of spying".

The lawyer for the two men, Masoud Shafiee, told an Iranian radio station that spying charges against his clients were "baseless" and that he would lodge appeals against the sentences.

//www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/22/jailed-us-hikers-iran-amnesty

Reality-Bites and VPK

Reading comments by BoosBoos reminds me of my own now and then 'naughty' postings here… No sane person reasons along the lines presented [here] by BoosBoos, or by 'Raoul character' now and then. :-)
Now let's start our week by blowing up a church as good muslims are doing in Egypt.
allah-o-akbar

BoosBoos joon

Exactly what are these theories of mine, you are suggesting I should test?

@ Reality Bites

Instead of making silly excuses for these so-called *hikers* -- test your theories out by hiking in the border between the Taliban and the U.S. military or the border between Russia and Chechnya and let's see what happens.  Pick any zone of military conflict.  

Talk is cheap: Let's see you put your excuses into action.  

 My view is that I am unwilling to buy into transparent excuses for covert activity against the people of Iran.  

VPK jaan

Everything you say is accurate. But I didn't say that Americans don't need visa to visit Iran and that visits between the two countries is a convenient process. Nor did I make point about visa issues in general! The reason why I brought up the issue of Iranians and Americans visiting each other's countries was as a rebuttal to BoosBoos's comment that the situation between US and Iran are similar to US and Nazi Germany in WW2, that's all.

I agree with you our main concern should always be with the people of Iran. And rest assured mine is. We have plenty of other discussions specifically about people of Iran, as we should. However, this thread is about the issue of these hikers, is it not?

I don't know if these hikers are innocent or not, as I don't have access to any facts about the case. But the reason why I have made  comments here was because I saw posts uncritically defending the Islamic Republic's judicial system, which is known for its unfair and unjust, not to mention brutal, treatment of anyone the regime doesn't approve of, especially the Iranian people themselves (the American hikers have actually been treated pretty well by comparison).

Now, if you don't think we should be talking about issues like this and take to task comments defending the IR authorities, well that's your preragative, but I beg to differ.

Reality-Bites

Please you are being inaccurate and you know it. When an American goes to Iran they need to get a visa. Then go through an entry point like an international airport. They are checked and often given a "guide" who monitors their every move. For me as an Iranian American is is easier but I still have to get my papers together. For an Iranian to come here it takes 6 months to get a visa.

Wondering over the border specially that one is illegal and stupid. Furthermore it is very stupid and in my book deserves the "Darwin award". Except that they did not manage to get themselves killed!

I don't know why you people even care. There are Iranians being raped; killed and in jail in Iran right now. Worry about them! They have a legitimate complaint. These guys don't. Why should Americans waste their time over them. The State Department warned them; the Iraqi warned them; the people in the hotel in Iraq warned them. But they gave them all the finger and went anyway. What happens if I went to Harlem at midnight in the 1970s? I remember trying to get off the subway station there in the day by mistake. The police just told me to get back in the subway and keep going! That was in New York City and if I had ignored the police. I would not be writing this post now! And no one would have given a ***. Being dumb is a very good reason for being in trouble

BoosBoos

USA is not in a state of war against the Islamic Republic, despite the latter's "marg bar Amrika" mentality and the sponsoring/funding of the Mahdi Army in Iraq. So this is nothing like Americans hiking near the German border during WW2. American civilians visit Iran regularly and Iranians visit the US regularly. Furthermore, hikers of different nationalities have been arrested in many different border regions around the world, some of them dangerous, and usually found to be innocent and freed. I repeat that doesn't automatically mean these people were innocent, but this kind of hiking happens far more often than you seem to think.

The circumstantial evidence you keep going on about (assuming there is any - we've seen no sign of that either) is not sufficient to convict a person in a criminal/espionage case that, I repeat, requires proof beyond reasonable doubt......at least not in any fair and just court of law worthy of the description. With the IR's courts it's usually the case of "guilty till proven innocent" and sometimes "guilty even if proven innocent".

The fact that you keep coming up with unsubstantiated claims: e.g. "Most americans don't buy the hikers excuses either", "the hikers are linked to Israel" etc, doesn't strengthen your arguments either.

In any case, you haven't answered the questions I put to you, but from your last response in particular I think it's safe to conclude you really do believe that the security/political trials held by the Islamic Republic are fair and conducted according to due process. Fair enough. Now I know your stand point.

Free The Hikers

//freethehikers.org/

//www.democracynow.org/2011/5/5/freed_us_hike...

The Hikers were Guilty - here's why ...

To: Reality-Bites,  

Who in their right mind, would ever take a chance to go into hostile territory for a hike?

From among that population of *hikers* in California, what are the chances that 2 people of the Jewish faith would want to go in the precise location where sectarian military violence is taking place between several competing Muslim factions?  

(Note: Think about how bizarre it would be for an American to get caught hiking on the German border during World War 2 or vice versa.)

Add that the countries that the *hikers* originate from are actively funding and promoting terror groups on the same border (U.S. & Israeli politicians routinely and publicly support MEK and PJAK).  

Add that the countries the *hikers* are linked to (the U.S. and Israel) are beating the war drums against Iran, threatening to bomb Iran to the stone age almost on a daily basis while they both maintain a military presence near that border.  

Add that the country the *hikers* originate from just invaded 2 of the neighboring countries (Iraq and Afghanistan).

Add that one of the alleged co-participants (Sara Shourd) jumped bail and that fleeing is often admitted as evidence of consciousness of guilt in criminal trials (I provided a link for that).

Add that the U.S. has a history of sending operatives into Iran to manipulate the political landscape (Have you forgotten about Mosadegh? ... I promise the Judge didn't.) 

...

If you don't see how authorities can form a reasonable suspicion to arrest and charge the *hikers*, you're only kidding yourself.  By making it a *human rights* violation you're also cheapening genuine human rights violations; and endangering others.

A judge may very well have found  -- based on the CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence -- that these 2 were involved in some form of intelligence gathering, meeting a contact at the border, delivering cash to operatives already in iran, or a number of acts that most other governments would object to under these same circumstances.  In espionage cases, you never learn all of the details (or even in regular criminal cases).

They were convicted after a trial.  Now you might not be happy with the trial that they got; however, they had lawyers and received some form of legal process. I raise that point because the U.S. diminished its own moral authority to complain about trial standards when it started rounding up 'middle eastern' looking men, sending them to Guantanamo Bay Cuba WITHOUT TRIAL & WITHOUT A LAWYER for and INDEFINITE amount of time -- Not to mention that some of those 'detainees' were not even captured on the U.S. border (but in their home countries) and many were tortured: Have you forgotten the pictures of people standing naked holding electrical wires or having to rub human excrement on themselves?  Have you forgotten the detainees that died while being interrogated?)

The *hikers* were properly arrested and the Judge used his common sense in reaching a verdict - that's what happened.  The reality is that a similar process takes place in U.S. courts every day (and even U.S. courts sometimes incorrectly convict a person).  Reality bites! 

BooBoos

I don't keep count of how many hikers go hiking near borders of various countries. But I'm curious as to why you continually go on about the "Jewishness" of the US hikers?

Anyway, in business dispute/civilian courts, cases rest on a "balance probabilities". However, in criminal/espionage court cases, such as this, the standard of proof is much higher and cases have to be proved "beyond reasonable doubt". Whatever standard of proof is required in a court of law, even those as shambolically unjust as the IR's, there has to exist some level/kind of solid proof beyond a reasonable doubt of these people's guilt. The IR, which is notorious for publicizing and parading any kind of evidence/guilty parties before the World media, has produced no evidence of their guilt, nothing, nanda, zilch. The Iranian regime has had these hikers in custody for over 2 years, and NOTHING has been produced.

Again, if you'd read my previous comment more carefully you'd have seen I didn't claim the hikers were necessarily innocent. I said it is possible they could be guilty. Hiking near the Iranian by anyone, especially Americans is either foolish or suspicious. So I'm by no means discounting the possibility they could've been up to something fishy, though I can't see how much spying three unarmed Americans could carry out on a border region (having spies INSIDE the IR ruling/security apparatus is far more effective).

You mentioned the 3rd hiker skipping bail. Do you really think if IR genuinely had credible evidence of her guilt as an operative, they would've let her leave Iran on bail? Come on...!

The whole point of my comments to you is that you seem to have bought the Islamic Republic's version of this case lock, stock and barrel. The US hikers say they were captured on Iraqi Kurdish territory, and as we know from a few weeks back when they chased some Kurdish rebels, the IRGC often cross into Iraqi territory, so it is not that much of a stretch to think this could be the case. The IR says the hikers were captured on Iranian land, which is also possible, but then the IR has made lying about things and fabricating events into an art form. You back IR's version and declare the hikers guilty without knowing the facts. You add that most Americans don't buy the hikers' excuses either. What is the source of your claim about what most Americans views on this?

And for the third time I ask: is it your view that the security/political trials held by the Islamic Republic are fair and conducted according to due process?

A trade!!!?

The IRI will pardon these kids if MEK stays in the terorist list.

It is simple and black and white. Somehow our dear freedom fighters in USA don't get the point. IRI will be happy for the assistance they get from Khadivar's gang . They are however after the real enemy they know who would go the distance. Wake up, We are smarter than that.

..........

Hi! VPK,

      2 years ago, I read in the news that when the 4 Americans were in the Iraqi hotel, the Iraqis specifically warned them not to get too close to the Iranian border.....also told them the borders are poorly marked......these Americans are very defiant.......they went to hike in the border anyway......but I think they got punished enough by spending 2 years in jail! It is time to let them go! I don't believe they are spies. IRI has not shown an iota of evidence that they are spies!

P.S. You know bridge very well! :O)

Yolanda

I do hope IRI falls and Iran gets a democratic system. It is good to see Ghadafi go. And I have been saying Syria and IRI are on Obama plans. That is because Obama is very systematic about things.

However I still find these "hikers" to be idiots. I don't think they are spies. But I still have no sympathy for them. Imagine someone jumps over the fence in the zoo in the lion den. How should I respond to their predicament.

........

Thank you, Amir19, for the great post!

Responses

• Amir19 - Well I hope you are right and IRI will go. But I have been hearing this for 33 years so I don't have my hopes particularly high. We are lucky if it goes in the next 9 years.
• Regarding the hikers - The more I think the less sympathy I have for them. You know had this been Soviet Union they would have been shot on sight. They are very lucky it was IRI; at least they are alive now.

IRI won't last 8 months let alone 8 years

Great news. All day CNN is reporting on 2 sons of Ghadafi being captured by rebel forces. Ghadafi is finished. Then the Syrian dictator is next and with the downfall of Assad, Iran's dictatorial regime will fall like a house of Cards and these 2 innocent Americans and all other political prisoners in Iran will be freed. So, I am not worried about this unjust sentence for the 2 Americans because I would bet anyone here, that this brutal regime of Iran, will fall by the end of this year. Sorry BoosBoos , you have to find another source to get financial support to spread your lies here.

...........

Where is the circumstantial evidence? None!

 OJ has a bloody glove!

Circumstantial Evidence Indicates Guilt

To  Reality-Bites: 

If you really think there wasn't probable cause to arrest and charge these *hikers* I'll pay for your ticket to any border marked by war or insurgent activity and film you hiking in the mountains so we can see if you're arrested or not.    

When is the last time you heard of 2 American jewish men going hiking in between two countries (Iran & Iraq) where there is sectarian military conflict between feuding Muslim groups?  Most Americans don't buy their *hiking* excuse either ... in a court you can prove guilt by direct evidence ("personal knowledge of the facts") or by circumstantial evidence ("the surrounding factual context and behavior indicates guilt").  No Court requires that there be 100% certainty for conviction.  

That's what led to John Walker Lindh's conviction for going to Afghanistan and that's what led to these 2 *hikers* convictions in Iran.  What's worse for the hikers is that the 3rd *hiker* skipped bail -- when you run from a trial and later get caught, the prosecutor can introduce that as evidence of consciousness of guilt and introduce it against your co-defenedants. (Remember when OJ Simpson tried to flee the police in the White Bronco-Truck?)   Running from legal proceedings is sometimes chargable as a separate offense.  

There's really nothing that unusual about these 2 getting arrested, charged, and convicted.  

 You can read about consciousness of guilt from fleeing here: 

//blog.austindefense.com/2006/10/articles/-evidence-and-criminal-procedure/the-admissibility-of-consciousness-of-guilt/ 

هشت سال

Dear Yolanda

• With modern technology we should be able to build it in a few months.
• They probably get new suites like the British sailors did from AN.
• The kids could help out in building it see: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bridge_on_the_Riv...

......

Hi VPK,

      So they have to build the bridge 1st and then swap the prisoners.......so these 2 guys have to wait longer! :O)

On the Lighter Side!

The Iranian woman who was found guilty actually fled with her husband to Iran from Austria. The husband stayed in Iran but she came back to the US and got arrested. Her defense in her trial went something like this.

"Iranian women generally don't know what their husbands are up to, so I didn't know!"

Talk about dumb and dumber!

alx171

They don't need evidence it is their courts and they made up what they want. Have you heard of "trumped up" charges? It happens all the time in the world. Dude, they took my family home with NO evidence at all.

Who is going to question the charges? Not to mention secret courts even in the USA do not reveal evidence. They say it is "classified" meaning "we don't have" any! So they are going to be convicted unless a deal is made.

Then as Yolanda said a prisoner swap is the most probably outcome. Remember justice has nothing to do with any of this. It is deal making and bargaining; now do you get it my friend.

Yolanda

The one that Ahmadi wanted for a swap is Amir Ardebili who is spending a five-year term. He pleaded guilty without trial to get a lighter sentence.

what evidence does IRI

what evidence does IRI have? i've head lots of accusations etc... i have not seen a single piece of evidence ir. photographs, video recordings etc...

Yolanda

The prisoner swap sounds reasonable. How about an old style "bridge" thing. Guys in trench coats; heavy rain; midnight. Then they walk half way through the bridge make the swap and we are happy! 

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glienicke_Bridge#In_p...

May I suggest the "Glienicke bridge"? But due to its location it is no longer suitable. We should first build a similar one over "Arvand Rood"; then use it. 

...........

Hi! Raoul1955,

    I agree with you that IRI has some so-called "evidence" about Roxanna, but still let her go!

IRI has no evidence on these 2 guys, but gave them 8 years sentence anyway! It does not make sense!

The only thing I can think of is that US has not released any Iranians in their custody.....that is why these 2 guys are in jail!

IRI has asked US to release this lady: //www.payvand.com/news/09/mar/1120.html

IRI wants prisoner swap!

Yolanda

Roxanna's profile was a perfect match for the CIA's Clandestine Services.  On a PBS interview she did refuse to discuss many issues, or respond to some questions.

.............

IRI said Roxanna Saberi copied classified document(s). Roxanna said she needed the document for her book!

I did not hear a thing about what spying activity these 2 guys were involved in! Nothing!