Current Events

Faramarz

I agree they are being held for some kind of exchange. I don't know if they are spies or not. If they are spies they are not very good ones so I would guess they are not. Maybe IRI wants to do some kind of deal I am not privy to.

But do you blame them? Like any good rug merchant they want to make deals. It is the way of the world. So yes I do agree that IRI is trying to make a deal and I suggest Obama haggle. They will understand the language and kids will get off.

Faramarz

One more thing on this issue. If I ever get to be the one making the decision I will release them. With a 200 $ fine to trespassing. Plus air fare to their nation of choice. I would suggest Turkey or England NOT Iraq.

By the way I had a friend in college. He liked to tempt the police by smoking pot right within their eyesight. Guess what he got: arrested and had to spend thousands of dollars on legal fees to get off.

I asked him why is he so stupid? What is the point of his actions. He wanted thrills and his parents got the bills. I hope they make him pay them back. I am not in touch with him anymore. But If I were his parents I want the legal fees with interest.

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Stupid, But Not Spies

If I didn't do what I was told not to do, I sure would have lived a boring life!

So we agreed that they are not spies. Let's see if we can agree if they are hostages held for a swap.

Raoul and Faramarz

I just said Iran and Iraq are on the State Department "Travel Warning" list. That means Obama warned them. When people do stupid things they get bad results. If I jump off a bridge I am being stupid; but I will probably die.

Being stupid does not save you from bad things. There is a thing called "Darwin Award". I think these guys qualify for it. That is how nature selects for "intelligence".

VPK

They were hiking in a popular tourist area of Kurdestan, Ahmed Awah Falls, not a war zone. It is about 2 miles from Iranian border. Google it, it looks nice on a hot summer day.

Now let's say that they did not get lost and actually thought that it would be a fun thing to get close to the Iranian border and even take a few pictures to impress their friends. That would be considered illegal trespassing, not spying and they don't put you in Evin or solitary confinement with secret trials and no visitation rights and 8-year prison term.

And if they were dangerous spies, why did they let the woman free?

VPK

They weren't convicted on being stupid, but being operatives for our governement.  Faramarz makes a valid statement.

Raoul

You are totally out of line. Why don't you take a commando mission and rescue them? I know you do not like Democrats but don't turn this into an attack on Obama. These guys took a big risk and are lucky to be alive.

They may have been mistaken for MEK and shot on sight. They may have fallen off a cliff with no one to help them. USA has a list where they warn people not to go. Both Iran and Iraq are on the list. You violate it at your own risk.

Obama has absolutely no obligation to do anything. There were warned not to go there. If they chose to ignore the warning then too bad. Next thing you have people jumping into active volcanoes then whining about it!

Faramarz

US and Mexico border is not a war zone. Iran and Iraq border is a war zone. OK let us just assume they are totally innocent of spying. They are guiltiy of being dumb. They are not hostages but prisoners.

Now I agree Iran should let them go on humanitarian grounds. Nothing is gained by keeping them. But they are not under any obligation. In the 60's American kids used to go to Mexico to party. Many got arrested and given long jail terms.

Mexico was not invaded and the kids got in a great deal of needless suffering. My question still is: why did they do this? What kind of *** goes hiking in the war zone? Would anyone please give me one good reason for their choice of hiking place.

Two More Hostages

A little bit of logic and common sense goes a long way.

If the US wanted to gather intelligence on the Regime it would have sent a drone or special ops people with all the fancy equipment like night vision goggles and cameras, as it does nightly in Afghanistan. These college kids were arrested with their back packs after they visited a popular waterfall in Iraqi Kurdestan.

If the Regime had any evidence on these guys, it would have done a show trial as it normally does with the Iranian opposition to prove its case.

These guys are just hostages that the Regime wants to exchange with the Iranian arm smugglers that are doing time in US Federal prisons for trying to buy military parts and pieces for the Regime.

If an Iranian guy crosses into Arizona from Mexico with the help of a coyote, the Mexican guy will be sent back to Mexico and the Iranian guy will be apprehended, but freed on bail pending a hearing. If he applies for asylum and shows cause, he most likely will walk free, otherwise he will be deported.

Raoul

Miscarriages of justice take place in many places, like the Islamic Republic where it is institutionalized and takes place on a missive scale. But it can also take place in countries like the US.

So, launching a military attack is not the answer, nor is it likely to help matters. Countries can't or shouldn't start wars merely on the strength of their individual citizens being, supposedly, unfairly incarcerated and tried in foreign countries (and I say this despite having nothing but contempt for the IR's system of so called "justice" in general).

If these guys

Were not operatives, then the US has a responsibility to launch military actions against the Iranian regime.   Unfortunately we have a DEMOCRAT in the Office!

BoosBoos

I didn't imagine or claim anything. I simply asked you a few questions none of which you answered!

Read my posts again, I didn't "claim" John Walker Lindh was anything in particular. YOU are the one who claimed he was innocent. I simply asked questions about his activities.

We know he was in Afghanistan, we know he became a Muslim, we know he was captured by the Northern Alliance Fighters when he was with a bunch of Al Qaeda fighters and we know his own parents said that he went to Afghanistan to fight. No, I haven't personally seen the evidence with my own eyes, and, unlike you declaring the American Hikers guilty, I haven't accused Lindh of being guilty, but those are all facts about his circumstances that at the very least raise questions about his activities.

You say that "All i've seen is that he was a confused 19 year old kid from Marin County that grew a beard and went to Afghanistan." 

Where did you "see" this? Did you actually spend time with the guy?

But we're getting off the track here, thanks to your diversion. This article and the discussion are supposed to be about the US hikers in Iran and the standard of justice of the Islamic Republic. They could be spies and guilty as charged, but then they could also be innocent. We don't know and I making claims either way. But you have already declared them guilty and stated that they were operatives. Based on what? Where is your own "transcript" that you demand of me?

And most importantly, once more I ask, are you saying that the security/political trials held by the Islamic Republic are fair and conducted according to due process?

John Walker Lindh

@ Reality-Bites    You're the one claiming that the evidence should have been revealed to the public (not me) ... so yeah, where is the evidence that John Walker Lindh "fought with the Taliban"?  All i've seen is that he was a confused 19 year old kid from Marin County that grew a beard and went to Afghanistan.  Produce the transcript of one person that says Lindh fired a gun once in his life or committed a single act of terror.   You know what he was convicted of after being charged with 11 felonies?  He got busted for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and is now serving 20 years.  

Reality-Bites ... you're invited to the real world

@  Reality-Bites:  I meant what i wrote - not what you imagined I wrote.  It's your imagination that's the problem, not my statement.  If something was at issue in my statement, you would have quoted it and discussed it. 

These little symbols (" ...") are called quotation marks - the fact that you make allegations without substantiating them with quotes worries me that your standards of "justice" are simply an excuse to impose your own myopic world views on people.  

Someone using that method is not entitled to have others accept their views on "Justice."  God forbid you ever were a Judge and made-up quotations and attributed beliefs to people and called that "Justice." 

BooBoos

And why do you continuously go on about USA's shortcomings in legal and security matters (who suggested that US is the standard of perfection on these issues)? Is that supposed to justify IR's shortcomings?

Are you inferring that IR's espionage trials, or IR's political/security trials in general, are fair and conducted with full due to the legal process? Do you not think if IR had concrete and credible evidence against these hikers "spying", at least any that could be held up to scrutiny, it would have splashed them all over the media by now?

PS: didn't John Walker Lindh become more than just a Mulism? Was he not trained in Bin Ladin's camp and also fight with the Taliban? 

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh 

The U.S. sentenced a 20 yr. old kid for being in the wrong place

John Walker Lindh a 20 year old kid when on a 'spiritual quest' to become a muslim and ended up in Afghanistan: he was indicted on 11 criminal counts and was found guilty of was violating economic sanctions simply by being in the wrong place (he wasn't even a member of the Taliban), for which the 20-year-old was sentenced to 20 years in prison. 

//www.alternet.org/story/31211/

Come on people ... the fact that these *hikers* got arrested or convicted isn't news .... 

Espionage Trials are Normally Secretly Held

Espionage or treason trials involving classified information, or protected sources and methods are usually done behind closed doors by all nations.  It's not an excuse that you didn't see the proceedings of these hikers on Court TV.  

US Judge advocates secret trials for all accused of terrorism:

//www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboa...

"Inside Guantanamo's secret trials" - BBC.

//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4422825.stm 

 Identities of Law Enforcement Kept Secret During Trial:  

Bivens v. Six Unknown Named Agents of Fed. Bur. of Narc., 456 F. 2d 1339 - Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit 1972 

//scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=9645263532262053168&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr 

BoosBoos

I understand the point you're making regarding the folly of the hikes near the Iranian border, but I not sure your examples are that great.

Comparing Ahmadinejad who is the President of IR, hiking next to the US, to couple of unknown Americans hiking on Iran's borders? Also chances are if any Iranian ever went hiking next to the American border he/she would be very unlikely to get arrested judging by the fact that millions of Mexicans pour across the border undetected into the US every year. 

............

IRI has revealed no evidence for espionage!

The Iranian lawyer of these 2 guys saw nothing in their file!

All IRI can do is posturing and swashbuckling!! Look, how many times the trial has been delayed? Why? becuase IRI has no evidence!

IRI is incompetent! IRI let the Stuxnet virus spread in the nuclear plant! IRI let assassins gun down the nuclear scientists without being caught! IRI let the nuclear plant launch get delayed again and again and again!

.....but AN bragged that Iran's nuclear plants are safer than Japan's:

//en.trend.az/regions/iran/1855759.html

Amir's Hiking Adventure

@ Amir:   blah blah blah ... how many people are you going to accuse of supporting the IRI just because they have a different opinion?  

If Ahmadinejad was *hiking* along the U.S. Mexico border at a time when Iran was threatening to invade the U.S., the U.S. also would have arrested him and given him time in prison.  This would likely be true in any country.

Don't believe me?  Put on your hiking shoes and let me film you marching along any war zone ... I'll pay for your ticket and a light a candle for you while you sit in jail.  

Put up or keep your pretensions to yourself. 

to: BoosBoos

To BoosBoos and those on this site who try to defend the IRI. All I have to say is " why don't you guys get the hell out of USA and go back and live in Iran"? It is easy to live in the Free USA and support the killers in Iran, if you are for real, try living in Iran for 3 months and then let us know how u like that backward regime? You are not fooling anyone except yourself. USA may not have the perfect system but it has the best one in the free world.

Prison Rape

In 2006, there were 2,205 allegations of rape in prison .....

 However, they were all the the U.S. prison system.  (Alex Coolman, "Trivializing Prison Rape," CounterPunch, August 1, 2003.)

 I put that information here because people have left comments implying that the U.S. justice system is free of human rights abuses and somehow the shining standard bearer of evaluating whether these 2 people were lawfully convicted in Iran.  People that leave those kinds of comments are totally out of touch with reality and should be sent back to the 2nd grade to start their education all over again.   

رژیم آخوندی زده به سیم آخر

رژیم فاسد ولایت وقیح اگر واقعا مدرکی علیه این دو جوان آمریکایی داشت خیلی وقت پیش آنها را رو میکرد. این رژیم آنقدر ذلیل شده است که دیگر اهمیت نمی دهد دارد چه بلایی به سر ایران می آورد و تنها هدفش ماندن در قدرت میباشد. اما این جبر تاریخ است که همه ظالمان دبر و زود به زباله دان تاریخ فرستاده خواهند شد . رژیمی که هیچوقت دادگاههای خود را علنی نمی کند چیزی برای گفتن ندارد و کسانی که در این سایت  سعی میکنند از رفتارهای این رژیم ضد ایرانی دفاع کنند یا از مزدوران آن هستند یا در زیر سنگ زندگی می کنند و از جنایتهای این رژیم طی 33 سال قبل خبر ندارند. شرم بر شما باد

Outrageous!

I am leaving this note for families of these two young -innocent men, in case they read this page. I want them know, that as a mother and as an Iranian, my thoughts and heart is with them. I feel sad. I wish, I could help. Real terroist is IRI. Sham on IRI.

.........

 'cause these 2 guys failed, so America has to de-list MEK.....

really?

IRI is absurd! IRI gave the 2 guys severe sentence for no reason, but has failed to stop the assassination of the nuclear scientists in broad daylight!

I wounder hwo America

I wounder hwo America would reacted if two Iranians were located in the heart of USA, taking pictures of army barrack and power stations, claiming that they were going to canada and lost their way in Nevada. Iranians know where these guys were located, in the middle of no where near Iraq, but in a very hot spot in Iran. There is no way anyone could lose his/her way there. You can only be there if you intend and aim to be there.

Iran has every reason to question them and be suspecious of their motive. Just imagine what would the american do, had this happend to two Iranians in America.

 Americans are currently trying to de-list  criminal MEK, a group that have killed Americans and were listed a terorist organization by America, simply to employ them to spy and carry out trorisem in Iran. They are only doing this because all other methods, such as the mission by these two guys, has failed.

Let's go hiking

I'm going hiking in the mountains of Afghanistan near the Pakistan border (where the Taliban are) ... I'm looking for 2 Americans of the Jewish faith to join me.   

(  If you haven't noticed my sarcasm, these were intelligence operatives.   Did you expect them to wear a hat that says "I am a spy" on it? ) 

Sham on Khameni

Shame on Khamenei for ordering such a disgraceful sentence on two innocent men, in the holy month of Ramazan. This S.O.B has no compassion and for sure he has no spirit of Islam and forgivenss in his heart. He will pay for this crime and 1000 of other crimes againts Iranian people very soon. I just hope our young men and women in Iran would learn a little caurage from Libiyans and Syrians and confront this evil regime sooner than later.

Hiking on Iran-Iraq border?! (Akhe Jaa ghaht bood?!) :-)

          I am not going to get into the details and try to find out who is right here and who is telling the truth or if the verdict is just etc!

          Just common sense is telling me that what the hell they are doing hiking on that border?! I mean common. It's like playing dodge-ball in Korea's demilitarized zone! Or going bird hunting on Gaza border! :-)

         Imagine this. A couple of Iranians being arrested while innocently hiking on US-Mexico border! Holly S***! You know what I mean! All that terrorist crap etc. Came to think of it Iranians have been arrested while posing to take a picture with New York metro!