Pictory

US Betrayal

The one thing that gives me some sense of justice is the fate of Jimmy Carter. He betrayed Iran and the Shah to Khomeini. His reward was total humiliation and abuse. He is know as the most inept President.

I know many Americans and none consider Jimmy a good president. There are those who think of him as a "good person" (I do not). But no one thinks he was a fit president. He will always be remembers for the hostage fiasco: his own doing.

Babak K regarding documents/proof of US betrayal etc

There is the book written by the president of france called the secrets of the states, very few copies can be found as cia purchased rights and it was never reprinted, if you can get a copy, it's well worth it.

As is no surprise most proof was covered up by the us intelligence service.  Leaving us with only the testimony of top people in the usa like the head of nato, general alexander haig which revealed many details of US military operations to neutralize the military and force democrats in iran to be wiped out by khomeini's cia funded extremists.

President of frances facts with much research were later taken up by this guy mike evans, who documented it thoroughly for his book, which became a best seller.  //www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZfkG78k3rA

 Let me know if having information helps remove some of your blame psychology.

Babak

I know all of this so what do we do now? Please add your ideas to my blog:

//iranian.com/main/blog/veiled-prophet-kh...

Veild Prophet, The

Veild Prophet,

The problem was that the Pahlavi regime never allowed any political institution or party to take root in the country.  Iranian nation had absolutely no expreience in political process that was needed in order to sort things out.  Bakhtyair or other patriatic Iranians were unkown to the ordinary Iranians, thanks to the Pahlavi Estebdad.  So for somebody unknwon (to Iranian rank and file) to gain a ground in Iran was impossible and the blame only goes to Reza Shah and his son who destoyed any political orgnization in Iran who could play a crutial rule in 1357 revolution.  Pahlavi estebdad is responsible to all this mess we have in our country.  Middle Eastern estebdad will never give up an inch unless they are forced to do so.  No dictator in Middle east allowed democracy flourish after Iranian revolution.  So to say that the Pahlavi estebdad would have allowed a gradual change is really stupid.  Middle Eastern dictators  understand only ordangi and nothing else.

Babak K.

Michael Mahyar Hojjatie

I agree with your remarks on Hoveyda who was in fact a patriot. But worry about the business of what happens next. Read my blog here: //iranian.com/main/blog/veiled-prophet-kh...

Pay special attention to the post by ayatoilet1. We are in great danger. NeoCon gangs have plans that will ruin Iran. Before we get to glory let us work on keeping Iran intact. Forget about what happens and worry about what will happen.

That wasn't a "prison"...

As prison are for criminals and this patriotic, educated, forward-thinking man did NOTHING wrong except love his country and wish for it to continue its meteoric rise to the top of the world!

Have the vile, Tazi-loving, traitorous scum in the picture of his corpse in the morgue hugging each other and the dog with the machine gun ever been identified? Are they still alive? If so, they need to be brought to justice after this regime falls and Iranzamin is restored once again to its great glory!

Babak

If you read my other posts you realize that I basically agree. There were several factors at work:

• Shah was out of touch with people and refused to see what is going on.
• However with American support a gradual change would have been possible. It happened in South Korea; Taiwan and other nations.
• While change was probably inevitable there Khomeini was not inevitable. It was Carter who actively supported him. Without that support Bakhtyar may have survived and created a real democracy.

Exactly

Well said!

Veiled ProphitYour

Veiled Prophit

Your statements are not concerete evidences and they constitute no documents for the claims by you or Amirparviz.  No disrespect is intended.  If any of your claims are true then the Pahlavi regime was a lot POSHALIER than I thought, for gods sake have a little respect for the Pahlavi regime.  Monarchists with their statements and behaviors are not scoring any repect for Pahlavi regime.

Pahlavi regime was doomed not because of Mullas or Carter and so on.  Pahlavi regime was doomed because, it had no connection to like of me and all the ordinary Iranians.  Reza Shah was a Mostabed and so was his son.  Pahlavi regime was digging its own grave by distancing itself from ordinary Iranians like me, and it was not my government, may be it was yours, but it was not mine.  They may have built things in Iran they did this or that like Islamic regime is doing), but they had no regard for my rights and the rights of ordinay Iranians.  It was Pahlavi regime that paved the way for a criminal regime like Khoemini's regime to come to power and nobdy else.

Babak K.

It's a good thing...

... the conversation's there!

Reality Bites

had it right; that is what I meant. In any event price of oil is not really the problem. Many Western oil firms actually prefer it to be high. It makes their high overhead wells profitable. The problem was that Shah was not renewing the sweet deal for Britain. More or less he wanted to follow the Mossadegh doctrine.

I also agree that it was not the only reason for his downfall. If people really loved him then no action by Britain would have brought him down. He in many ways dug himself in a hole. If he had strengthened secular democratic institutions it would be different. But instead he opted for Rastakhiz; changing the calender ... Things that infuriated the population. All of them at the wrong time. Why not allow for a real democracy with real elections? Why pick a single party system.

Reality Bites

No, he is referring to the revolution. Read the conversation. His argument is that the revolution was staged so they could get the price they wanted for oil.

We all know about the price-hike of 1973, otherwise.

Reality Bites

No, he is referring to the revolution. Read the conversation. His argument is that the revolution was staged so they could get the price they wanted for oil.

We all know about the price-hike of 1973, otherwise.

Perham

I believe VPK is referring to the oil/energy crisis of 1973-4 when price of oil shot up considerably, due to Arab oil embargo.

Iran continued to supply oil during the embargo and the country's revenue increased due to the high price. The West in the shape of US/UK now had to pay a lot more for oil and economies began to suffer, leading to a stock market crash.

So US/UK put pressure on Shah to use his influence on OPEC to lower the price. Shah refused and the West then turned to Saudi Arabia to the same and the Arabs complied.

I quote an excerpt from Wikipedia on this:

"...The West could not continue to increase its energy consumption 5% annually, while also paying low oil prices, and selling inflation-priced goods to the petroleum producers in the developing Third World.

This was stressed by the Shah of Iran, whose nation was the world's second-largest exporter of oil and a close ally of the United States in the Middle East at the time. "Of course [the world price of oil] is going to rise", the Shah told The New York Times in 1973. "Certainly! And how...; You [Western nations] increased the price of wheat you sell us by 300%, and the same for sugar and cement...; You buy our crude oil and sell it back to us, refined as petrochemicals, at a hundred times the price you've paid to us...; It's only fair that, from now on, you should pay more for oil. Let's say ten times more."[6] ..."

Now, I don't know if the Shah's refusal to give in to the demands of US/UK had any bearing on his downfall (I believe there were multiple factors for his demise including lack of political freedom under his regime), but that is what Shah himself believed, as do others.

Oh, so...

... the price of oil dropped, huh??

Here, take a look at the difference in price between 1978 and 1979, the year of the Iranian revolution (and thereafter). I hope we both agree that the Iranian revolution took place in 1979!

//www.fintrend.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/H...

Parham

The British got revenge from Shah whom they deemed to be a puppet gone wild. They also got a weak Iran. The price of oil dropped down in general. The British have to accept they are second tier.

America runs the world now and they no longer matter. So yes and no; the price was revenge and ruin of Iran and they got that. They did not obtain the goal of dominating ME oil because America already had that in the bag.

And so...

.. did the British get the price they wanted? Hmm?

Parham

We may debate this until the cows come home. We do not know how it was organized.

I do know:

• Jimmy Carter hated the Shah and wanted him gone.
• British were pissed off that Shah was acting more like Mossadegh. He wanted to charge them full price for oil.
• BBC was whipping up demonstrations. Broadcasting its times. Givig interviews with Khomeini and so on. France housed him.

Honestly I think Shah was arrogant and full of himself. But he did start to follow the Mossadegh lead. He refused to renew the favorable treaty with the British for oil. The result was very similar. My family was somewhat in the loop. We know that British stormed out of the "negotiations" saying to the Shah "you will regret not renewing it". Then Shah made the same mistake as Mossadegh. He did not realize what the British were up to. And he met the same end and we got played.

Prophet

It sufficed that Khomeyni record ONE cassette tape for it to be duplicated by different people. Inside Iran, I'm sure a lot of Bazaris paid for a few. But then everything was not on tape. There were a lot of people who would transcribe them on paper with a typewriter and make photocopies to spread them. And the photocopies came from inside offices. People copied them on their spare time -- or not.
It's a little bit like the e-mails that get forwarded these days, only those days it used to be on tape and photocopy, that's all.

Parham

Where do you think those cassetes came from? Who paid for them and organized it. How did they get into Iran. Tell me that. 

It is well known that JC hated the Shah. 

In fact I hear...

... Jimmy personally broke his piggy-bank to fund for a few of those cassette tapes, Babak. He specifically wanted Khomeyni to record his speeches on Memorex so the quality wouldn't get jeopardized.

Babak, you hang around here, you'll read all sorts of them, I tell you...

Babak

I will let Amirparviz speak for himself. But hear this: Jimmy Carter and the British wanted Shah out and Khomeini in. That is a historical fact. My family was warned by some associates in the British government almost two years before the "revolution" that Shah was going to "go". These were personal friends who were doing us a "favor" by giving us a friendly warning.

The reason was that Shah was not going to renew the sweet oil deal for the British. They found a their useful idiot in Carter and pushed for Khomeini. If Nixon was president this would not have happened. As he was a personal ally of the Shah. But JC the fool he was took it hook; line and sinker. I don't know how much he spent. But where do you think all those cassettes with Khomeini speeches came from?

Why do you think BBC had non stop broadcasts of next demonstration. Why do you think Ball undermined Shah. Who do you think talked Iranian generals into suicide by going to Khomeini. 

Amirparviz What you said

Amirparviz

What you said about Hoveyda is contrary to what Freydoon Hovayda explains about his brother's unjustified murder. Can you provide us with the documents that USA was paying those millins of dollars to Khomeini and company?  I do not want documents from Monarchists or Islamists or Communists, because they are only good in one thing and that is lying.  Please present a concrete evdence for your claims.  In my view, it was the Pahlavi estebdad that paved the way for an Ahreeman like Khomeini to come to power.

Babak K 

I am with you Pedram!

Delusional is a nice way of putting it!

I rest my case.

And when I say "delusional", they look at me left left.

Responses

• Hoveyda was not a Bahai and so what if he were. That is not a crime to be a Bahai.
• Hoveyda was a good man. Not perfect and a bit of a kiss up. But this mess was not his fault. The Shah was calling the shots. He should have told JC to shove it and gone full force against the revolution. But Shah was never a strong person. He was under the false impression USA was behind him. Wrong! JC wanted him out. He should have just bided his time until Republicans got power. Then USA policy would have been reversed.
• amirparvizforsecularmonarchy: You are mostly right but I don't say USA. I say Jimmy Carter. Once Americans realized what he was they voted him out. And kept the Democrats out for 12 years. By then Iran and Nicaragua had gone anti-American. Regan managed to undo the Nicaragua thing. But the damage to Iran was done and he was unable or unwilling to reverse it. Jimmy Carter the renowned antisemite and Nobel Peace prize winner has a lot of blood on his filthy hands. He never saw an anti-American dictator he did not love. That is one reason I find the Nobel Peace prize a sign of shame. Neither Clinton nor Obama are as evil or stupid as JC. Obama wants to reverse the act of JC. That is one reason JC hates Obama so much. But Obama is in a bind. He is being pushed by AIPAC to support MEK. He is also being trashed by Republicans who want to see him fail. So he has got a tough job ahead of him. The one thing about him is that is he very intelligent. So maybe he will pull a rabbit out of his hat.

Babak

You are right that some in the royal court wanted to appease the masses and put hoveyda up.  But as far as info goes, you are uninformed.  Shah was not for it and most of the people from that time know the truth.  He asked and wanted hoveyda out of the country, Hoveyda absolutely did not want to leave Iran for exile and did refuse the shahs requests.  He misjudged the dynamics that would occur after he was in prisoned. 

Hoveyda was well informed, knew the usa was paying khomeini $150 million cash a month, knew that khomeini had spent $250 million to train tens of thousands of pasdar in libya with PLOs help.  Yet he could not forsee the military would go neutral under direct orders from Carter and the entire constitution would disappear.  The USA has more than just the blood of Hoveyda on it's hands.  Which is why all their iranian led institutes and faculties are busy misinforming people of the truth.

...

Shazde jan,

Hoveyda was not a Baha’i and he denied being a Baha’i in his entire life.

Just having a Baha’i family member (parent or grandparent) does not make you an ultimate Baha’i, unlike other religions

Yes, our land has been ruled by the Eunuch for 2,500 years

"Political eunuchism became a fully established institution among the Achamenid Persians."

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch

Shazdeh: Who do you think is in charge in IRR today? A bunch of

boshkeh-loving hamjens-baz (i.e., akhoond and bacheh akhoond!)