Anyway

Brother Salman, no one hate anybody. We love Iran. Period

 "Qur'an is revealing your inability to handle the truth.  " Salman Farsi

"Qur'an itself is open to exegesis " Salman Farsi

Most of the issue I discussed has never been addressed such as Taqiyya, woman beating, etc. Our beloved country has been destroyed, our brothers and sisters were massacred (in summer of 1988) according to Islamic law. The name of that law is FATWA. Iran had been invaded by arabs before. It was military invasion. Read Khalid ib Walid story. Now our Iran has been invaded culturally for last 32 years. We never forgot and forgiven Omar for invasion to our country. That is why we have Eid-e-omar koshan every year.  We burn him his status with effigy.  I am surprised you didn't know it (that tells me about your national of origin). As you quated from Koran about (female captive) in your comment.

One of the worst aspects of Islamic slavery is the sexual exploitation of women slaves by their masters. Some Muslims try to deny this but as we have seen there are at least three Suras in the Koran which give the slave owner the power to cohabit with his female slaves at will. Even without the taint of slavery the plight of women was deplorable under Islam. If on top of this slavery is attached their plight is magnified manifold.

Amongst those who try to assert that concubinage with female slaves was not permitted in Islam is Maulana Muhammad Ali (The Religion of Islam, pp. 6667-670). His main argument is that Muhammad allows slave owners to marry female slaves (e.g. in Sura 24.32-33 which we have considered above)(16). But the fact that marriage is allowed does not mean that concubinage was not. In Islam a girl was given in marriage with the consent of her guardian (usually the father). But a slave has no guardian other than the slave-owner so the slave-owner marrying his own slave cannot be a free contract. A Muslim can have only four wives but he can keep an unlimited number of slave concubines; that is why marriage to one's slave was rather rare. Finally even Maulana Muhammad Ali is forced to admit that in the Islamic jurisprudence (the Fiqh) "we find the rule laid down that a master may have sexual relations with his slave girl simply because of the right of ownership which she has in her" (p. 670).

The sexual exploitation of women slaves has also existed in other countries, e.g. in the United States with respect to Negro slavery. But never so extensively and commonly as under Islam, and never under the sanction of divine command. The harems and seraglios of the richer Islamic potentiates became massive and they were replenished regularly by slave women. This is amply documented in the cases of the Moghul and Ottoman rulers as well as the smaller Arab sheiks.

Muhammad himself accumulated a small harem of women for each of whom he built an apartment around the Mosque at Medina. Most were wives, the number greatly exceeding the number of four which was allowed for ordinary Muslims(17). The extra wives were generally authorised by a special dispensation from God granted through the archangel Gabriel.

One of Muhammad's concubines, Mary the Copt, was a slave as she was a gift from the ruler of Abyssinia. Even though Mary refused to give up her Christian religion she became one of Muhammad's favorites (giving him one of his rare children) and was involved in one of the scandals in Muhammad's married life(18).

After the slaughter of the men of the Jewish tribe of Quraiza, and the enslavement of the women and children, Muhammad took Rihana, the wife of the chief of the Clan as a concubine. Of this incident Gairdner asks: "What of Rihana, the beautiful Jewess, taken to Muhammad's tent on the very night of the slaughter, she with a face yet wet for a husband massacred in cold blood, he with a soul newly stained by the blood of that husband?".(19) Rihana later tried to poison Muhammad.

Brother Salman, plese change your arabic avatar to Persian Avatar.

Dear Salman

I have resent the email.

The reason why the pretentious democratic brothers and sisters of IC roll out the red carpet for the Bahais and their issues while they are intolerant of the human face of Islam, and especially the plight of Muslims under the IRI, is because this site and its financial benefactors belong to the rightwing Islamophobic lobby of the Anglo-American pro-Zionist US lobby. This site has been noted by countless people to be nothing but a false-flag operation of this establishment. More than likely it is also a surveillance front for the US Departmet of Homeland Security.

Given this, this establishment is in no way interested in the plight of Iranians under this regime - the significant number of whom are Muslims. Rather they are more interested in promoting and cultivating certain actors (such as the Bahais) who are being actively groomed by this establishment for a post-IR Iran. I would recommend this book by Noam Chomsky as to what sites such as IC are actually all about.

Dear Freethought

Would you please re-send your email as for some reason I have not received it.

I fully agree with you that we are surrounded here by an Islam-hating crowd. With a very few exceptions who are fair,  majority of the Iranian.com users (who by the way claim to be democracy lovers!!) are showing bold and wanton disgust towards the belief system of a large majority of  Iranians. 

Funnily the same people show great resepct for other faiths including Baha'ism and particularly Baha'ism. Not that I have anything against Baha'is in principle, but why are they receiving such favorable treatment. If presecution is the criterion, the IRI has persecuted and killed more muslims than any other faiths.

Why our pretentious democracy brothers cannot tolerate the human face of Islam but are happy to give that credit to say Baha'is? 

For an Islamic democracy

With abusive f*&^s like you, Faryar/Waders, one method works!

And that is mine with you, Bahai Basiji.

Professor Juan Cole, February 23, 1999:

//www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Cole71.htm

BAHAI TACTICS according to Henry Tad
//groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/0c1210a627cdaae3

Nima a rare bassiji in his own rights

by Freethought111 on Thu Aug 04, 2011 01:12 AM PDT

too sari nakhordi, poroo shodi! chekheh!!!

Pt. 2

Thanks for getting back to me, I really appreciate it...About Western
imperialism and the Baha'i Faith, I am also starting to think there is
a connection. I still have a few Baha'i friends, and almost on a daily
basis I hear about the "oppression of Baha'is in Iran", which saddens
me. But what makes me question things is this: Out of all of the
oppressed peoples of the world, from South America to Chechnya, from
Iran to the First Nation peoples of North America, why is is that so
much attention is given to seven people in Iran? I am not saying that
persecution requires a high number of people for it to be persecution,
but they act as if Baha'is are the only people being persecuted in
that country. In the past twenty years, about two-hundred Baha'is have
been executed by the State. That is a serious human rights crime, but
does it really warrant a war, sanctions, and massive death for the
entire Iranian population, while other countries that are allies of
the United States kill groups of people in the thousands? And when non-
Baha'is question Baha'is why they don't speak out against the
oppression of other groups of people, they basically say that it's not
their job. Which would be a "fair", albeit selfish answer if it were
not for the sheer fact that the Baha'i institutions call on non-
Baha'is to speak out on behalf of Baha'is. But when the tables are
turned, the Baha'i institutions don't want to hear it.

This might sound really off-the-mark, but do you think it is possible
that the "higher-ups" of the Baha'i Faith are practicing some form of
"black" magick in an attempt to influence world affairs towards their
goals? Also, are you aware of any Baha'i-Freemason connections? I came
across some interesting things a Baha'i wrote on a Baha'i forum, but
haven't done enough researching yet to know if it is true. Basically,
he said that the name "Baha'u'llah" is a "special name" at the
Baltimore Masonic Temple, like a "code word." They have a hallway of
nine doors, with the ninth door being the highest as the hall moves
upwards. He also said that Gleanings from the writings of Baha'u'llah
is in their top ten books of scripture to read from.  He said that
Baha'is are not permitted to join Secret Societies, but he knows at
least two Baha'is in "good standing" who are 33rd degree Masons.

Haifan Baha'is deserve the bashing they get...

A letter to me from an ex-Bahai who converted to Islam.

--

Pt.1

I hope you don't mind me telling you a little bit about myself, and
asking some questions.

I have read some of your articles about mysticism, and comments about
the Baha'i Faith and some of it is hard to deny. Here is a little
background about myself. I converted to Islam when I was nineteen
years old, and within a year I discovered the Baha'i Faith. I didn't
do much research at first because I was still getting used to
practicing Islam and grasping the idea of being part of a worldwide
Muslim community. I didn't care for all of the rules and regulations
that the 'ulama declared were the only true means of practicing the
faith. It seemed like they made Islam excessively hard to practice for
most people. When I finally began to research the Baha'i Faith, my
attraction was really towards the Bab', Ali-Muhammad Shirazi. I read
Mirza Husayn Ali's "Book of Certitude" in one night, and the parts
that kept me reading even though my mind was tired, were the
prophecies about the Bab' as the Mahdi. I was not interested in
prophecies at that time, because I didn't come from a particular
background that required them. The same was true for Islam. I didn't
"need" to know that Muhammad was prophesized in the Bible, as I was an
agnostic. Even so, when I read the Shi'a hadith that was quoted in the
book, I fell in love with this man called "The Bab'." Even when I
started to hang out with the Baha'is, I would jokingly refer to myself
as a "Muslim Babi" because of how attracted I was to him.

But jokes aside, I didn't see a contradiction with that phrase because
I viewed the Bab' as a man who created a community that was "outside"
of Islam but still "inside" at the same time, like a paradox. After a
month of spending time with Baha'is, I saw my first red flag. I was
talking to one of my Baha'i friends and mentioned that I wanted to
learn Farsi or French so I could read the Persian Bayan in full. For
some reason, still unknown to me to this day, she became instantly
suspicious and implied that my "intentions" to read it were impure
somehow. "Wait a minute", I thought. Why would she give me a guilt
trip because I wanted to read a part of her own faith's scripture? If
I were talking to a Muslim and stated that I wanted to learn Arabic so
I could read the Qur'an in its original language, they would be
ecstatic and probably even help me learn the language if they knew it.
I took the matter to some other Baha'is because I thought maybe she
just had her own issues or something, but they also became silent when
I said it was because I wanted to read the Persian Bayan.

One of them kindly suggested that it would be easier for me to just
read the writings of Baha'u'llah because he is the "most recent"
Manifestation of God, they are more easily available, and they are
translated into English so I don't need to learn a foreign language. I
understood the logic, but I didn't understand why they were all trying
to dissuade me from reading a piece of their own scripture. I got the
impression that they had something to hide. That wasn't my initial
perception at all, but when they kept trying to steer me in a certain
direction and even question my "intentions" (whatever that means),
what else was I to think? The only reason why I wanted to read the
Persian Bayan was because of my attraction to the Bab, not despite of
it. I eventually caved to their wishes and read the writings of Mirza
Husayn 'Ali instead, which were inspiring to a certain degree. But I
would get this intuitional feeling that somehow the Baha'i Faith
wasn't telling the whole story about its origins, like it was hiding
something.

Every time I would feel that way, I would crush it and punish myself
for thinking such "unholy" thoughts. I also started to wonder if the
Baha'i Faith actually despised Islam at its inner core. While I could
never categorically prove this, I came across many passages and
writings that seemed to speak ill of Islam through cleverly
constructed phrases that appear to exalt the faith of Muhammad at face
value, but in actuality are tearing it apart. I would notice that out
of all of the interpretations given to particular Quranic verses and
hadiths that exist in the tradition of Islamic scholarship, the Baha'i
Faith would almost always pick the "bad" one that would make Islam
appear "backward" to the "enlightened" west, and would then say "this
is why Baha'u'llah came, to reform religion...etc." Perhaps that is
too conspiratorial, but it was a very strong feeling I had that would
inevitably creep up no matter how much I censored my thoughts. One of
my most vivid memories of this kind of thing, was a "conversation" I
had with a sweet elderly Persian woman. She initiated it by stating
that according to a Zoroastrian scholar on satalite t.v., Muhammad
(pbuh) commanded his followers to bury their new born children alive
during the early years of his prophethood; but he later abrogated that
law by commanding them to only bury their female new born children
alive and sparing the males. I told her that that was really confusing
since the Qur'an specifically mentions the practice of burying female
new borns and condemns it. She just brushed that off and kept saying
more things that would make Islam look bad, and ended our conversation
with a hug and an "apology" for "offending" me, and stating a final
after thought, "the Qur'an tells men to beat their wives...you know
this?"

This leads into my questions. What is it that I could have done to
make these Baha'is treat me this way? I was nothing but respectful
towards them and their faith. I never said a bad word about their
religion. And yet it seems like just because of the sheer fact that I
was a Muslim, that somehow meant that I was less than them. Even after
I became a Baha'i, while still retaining my love and appreciation for
Islam and the Prophet Muhammad, some of the Baha'is would still pick
at me for my association with Islam. The elderly Persian woman would
sometimes ask me if I was "still a Baha'i", which is a meaningless
question because the LSA would know if I had resigned from the Baha'i
Faith (which I did a number of years later.) In the research you have
done, is there any evidence that the Baha'i Faith has an agenda to
make Islam look barbaric and evil, while appearing to praise the
Prophet Muhammad and the Qur'an? In connection with that question,
does the Baha'i Faith have an agenda to make the Babi Faith and Islam
appear to be enemies of each other? Did Tahirih really claim that
Muhammad's teachings were "nonsense"? Is there a full translation of
the Persian and Arabic Bayans in English? Or for that matter, are full
copies of the originals still in existence for anyone to read?

You are confused!

There is no such thing as Islamophobia but there is such as thing as the West?! This is the problem with many trend-obsessed Iranian yuppies like you living in North AmeriKKKa. You have so aligned yourselves to the most rabidly fascist aspects of the dominant culture that you don't see the forest for the trees.

Your ancestors are not the Zoroastrian Sassanians of 1400+ years ago. Your ancestors (as mine) mixed with Arabs, Mongols, Tartars and everything in between in the intervening centuries. Unless you are a Jew or a Zoroastrian (which I doubt) then your ancestors were Muslims for the past 13-12 hundred years, as mine.

Now if you couldn't care less, that's your business, and neither do I care what you care less about. However Islamophobia is a real thing. As enth number of social scientists have now shown it is the evolved 21st century form of Antisemiticism and white Anglo-European bigotry and racism towards non-white peoples.

You think what you want about Australia. But to the people I hang out with Australia is a colonized continent whose true custodians are not white Europeans and whose real culture is not Anglo-European either.

 It's interesting tht he

 It's interesting tht he has a facebook dedicated to bashing bahais and calls other Islamophobe.

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

CAUTION NON-BAHAIS (capital letters to emphasize urgency)

Thoughtfree is a world renowned scholar and lecturer on BAHAI TACTICS & TECHNIQUES (capital letters to emphasize urgency) of Slanderous Vilification. See Thoughtfree's last comment for details and numerous putdowns/accusations to prove his credentials beyond doubt. 

Also bear in mind he has no "axe to grind", even though he stated earlier he was an "unashamed anti-Bahai".

Anyway, I'm off to officially become a Bahai. I mean, I might as well since Thoughtfree has decided I must be one.

best regards

Reality-"the scum"-Bites

None of this matters

like I said before, if islam keeps its paws off goverment and my ancestral land, I could give a hoot about it.

You MUST be free to practice - or reject - any religion you choose. That is not the case in most Islamic societies and that is a fact, no matter how rosy a picture you'd like to paint.

BTW, there's no such thing as Islamophobia - it is a word that has been made up. It will be 10 years next month since it was made!

Australia is the West - right or wrong, just or unjust.

You do live in the West.

If you're referring to me as Bahai, I got news for you. I reject ALL religions (Bahai, by the way, is an offshoot of your beloved Islam...oooh) - I don't need outdated scripture written by other human beings to "guide me".

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Beyond Heaven, Bite me!

BAHAI Tactics & Techniques
//www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

"Slanderous Vilification" = The Baha'i Technique - Ad Hominem, Libel,
Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite, Defame,
Vilify, Discredit, Smear, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate,
Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Deceive, Coerce, Silence, Harass... etc.,
etc.... CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

Heaven's above, thoughtfree

I didn't realise I was conversing with a classic obsessive paranoid individual who sees oh so nasty "hidden Bahais" in everyone who takes him to task over his verbal diarrhea.

I'm as much a Bahai as you are a hate free and balanced individual. It's cool, you can call me scum, but fellow, you need help, seriously.

Zereshk!

I know a fiend when I see one. The thread was hijacked by Truthseeker9, your co-religionist who like you hides behind an alias pretending to be a non-bahai (an old tactic of online Bahais).

I am unabashed anti-Bahai. I've never denied it because, having once been a member of this British-manufactured cult, I know firsthand what manner of Fascists and shameless liars and manipulators you people are. While you beat your chests to human rights organizations in the West crying about being persecuted in Iran and 'intellectually Othered', you have no compunction in doing exactly the same thing to your critics, dissidents, schismatics and now Muslims while allying yourselves to the most rabidly rightwing genocidal political agendas in the West. You people are scum!

thoughtfree

I'm not a "co-eligionist" or for that matter a "religionist" of any kind. So spare me the obsessive hatred that you continually spew at Bahais, which invariably results in you hijacking and ruining threads that have nothing to do with them.

The delicious irony is you getting on your high horse by branding them "Islamophobe", when you are clearly an arch "Bahai-phobe", (for want of a better word).

Just stick to posting your own anti-Bahai blogs (which you are perfectly entitled to do), and stop hijacking discussions to feed your obsession.

Bite this

As always your co-religionists opportunistically raised the stakes by engaging in below-the-belt Islamophobic rants so they were answered appropriately.

--

VPK: You are not an Islamophobe.

Talk about hijacking a thread!

I thought this thread was about a Jewish woman converting to Shia Islam. How did it turn into a long running anti-Bahai rant?

radius-of-the-persian-cat & Freethough

Please; taking about over generalization! I may be an "Islamophobe" by some definition. But I have already said that I respect the right of Muslims. I made special arrangements for my Muslim employees to go to prayer. If I was against them why would I accommodate them. I could just have said: too bad you get no time off on Friday.: but I didn't. No one is going to put anyone in gas chambers. I just do not want Islam forced on or a death penalty hang over me. 

Regarding flawed governments: yes all governments are flawed. And they are every one of them "human made". I do not see God coming and ruling the world. So the best we may do is to make as good a government as possible.

radius-of-the-persian-cat

I couldn't agree more. But there are some who are determined to misrepresent and lie as a strategy to promote their own by other means. There is nothing wrong with correcting wrong information and standing against those determined to deliberately diffuse bullshit as fact and by doing so engage in the persecution and victimization of completely innocent people trying to live their lives and raise their children in peace. Islamophobia if left unchecked, and if its promoters and supporters are not exposed, will lead straight to the gas chambers and crematoriums because Islamophobia is primarily a genocidally racist and fascist narrative. Andres Breivik proved this spectacularly!

Its all empty words

Sorry to say to all of you who made this blog with its 142 replies the "Most Discussed" in IC over the last days:  Never read such a wealth of empty words, when you are blaming each other of following the wrong religion or belonging to the wrong ethnic group. You can continue this till the end of the days, but neither of your ideas of one nation beeing superiour to the other or one faith knowing truth better than the other will have any relevance. It is just words, empty words full of absurd stereotypes about people that come from other cultures or traditions. I have to say thank you to my parents and the atheist country were I grew up for protecting me from any of those silly religious ideas. It is not just opium for the people (Marx), but it is a poisson that turns your brain into a hate-machine. All these fears of other faith or cultures are deep-rooted in the feeling of one owns missery. Like these norwegian Anders Breivik, who was a little nobody, living at the age of 32 in his mothers appartment and probably being mocked by the girls.  If any of you don"t see a meaning of life, try to grow a garden, write a book, make some music or help the olds. But please stop these endless arguments that every other nation or every other faith is evil.  Religion can only be a privat matter, good for your feeling but nothing else. Confronted with real truth (science), real creativity (culture) any religion is just ludicrous and should be better kept in the museum of history. My wife is jewish, my son follows the Pastafarians (church of the flying spaghetti monster), I have some good friends who grew up christians, my best and most funny colleages are muslims or bahai or hindi. We live and work in perfect harmony, as soon as we keep all arguments about religion down.  

I ADVISE YOU ALL TO DO THE SAME.

No

All human governance is flawed including, and especially, ones which purport to govern in the name of God. Period! I am an anti-theocrat - and in case you haven't been listening, I have also said I am Anarchist - which is another reason why I am anti-Bahai because Bahais do in fact believe in theocracy and wish to create a global Bahai theocracy.

BTW in the Qur'an itself only a maximum of 3 times a day is mentioned for prayer (namaz/salat). Not 5.

I do not live in the West. I live on the land of an Indigenous people whose lands were colonized by white Anglo-Saxons who commited genocide against these people. But the land itself belongs to these Indigenous Aboriginals and not to the white man, so technically Australia is as much Western as the French Congo or "Rhodesia" (now Zimbabwe) was Western before the white colonizers were kicked out by the natives.

The flip side, freethough?

So, you say you're against the IRI, but I bet your rosary beads you must support theocracy, and the rule of religion, DO YOU NOT?
And please do explain what you mean by flip side. Are you, like many supporters of the divine, accusing those who resist your religious flirting of being "agents"??

If there are any agents here, all you gotta do is look in the mirror.....Otherwise why would any self respecting, five-times-a-day praying muslim live in the infidel land of the West?
Why?

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

zahre maar, sb!

too sari nakhordi, poroo shodi! chekheh!!!

"Salman jan.." to dense man LOL

Pretty slick, Nima is now recruting! 

.

 hope Salman is as tolerant as bahais when you get started on your rants about Batton and your revelations!!

Cop

Mutatis mutandis, everytime a lively discussion begins attempting to set records straight, correct the misrepresentations and problematize the issues, true Bahais bulge at their own scaley necks. The narrative of Islamophobia and victimizing Muslims in the West has actors who know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it. Salman, myself and many others may be against the IRI, but we sure as heck are not falling for certain agendas that are the flip side of the coin to the IRI.

These two, if they are two

have spoken like the true lovers of peace they are....LOL. just utter the word Bahai and "true" muslims bulge at the neck. The tolenet ones....yeah, right.

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Salman jan

Brother, hyenas are cackling here and this place is infested with some of worst amongst the worst. I've sent you an email. What do you say we start a forum somewhere, and away from the prying eyes of the servants of shaytan (nazu bi'Llah) and have a safe  place where we can discuss these issues and others in peace. There are people on my facebook I can bring with me to this discussion one of whom is a Shi'a scholar in his own right who feels the same way I do about the IRI. The wretchedness of this place and some of its regulars (not VPK) is like the dense atmosphere in Mecca in the days just before the hijra.

I look forward to hearing from you.

So what!?

nima hazini crying wolf!! ".. muddy waters with their Islamophob

by Freethought111 on Wed Aug 03, 2011 01:28 PM PDT

*

**

***

Thats why no body gives a hoot about your BOOK.

I told you this was not your last comment

You can't be truthful to your own words  

For an Islamic democracy