HALEH

Houston, we have a problem

It has come to my attention that many people on IC  have no idea how to carry out effective debate. Yes, arguing is an art form. Yes, there is a right and a wrong way to do it. If you’re wondering why I’m writing this, it’s because a) I have nothing better to do with my life, b) I don't want MG leave, and c) because I hate stupid arguments.

While this post won’t change anything, it’d be nice if I could get at least one person to acknowledge these things!

So anyway, let’s see :

*Even if you are completely set in your views, you have to at least think about the other side. Don’t start blindly ranting!

*For the love of all things beautiful, do not go off on tangents. Maybe you think you’re showing off the breadth of your knowledge, but here’s the reality: you look like you can’t carry a topic. Moreover, you look like you’re failing miserably at defending your position and are trying to rely on red herrings to throw off your opponent. Just…don’t do it.

*Just know that it’s okay to concede to some contentions. Concession, if artfully done, isn’t a sign of weakness. It’s a sign you have understood your opponent. It also comes in handy for subsequently minimizing the opposing argument. 

*Think about what you’re going to say. If you don’t know about a topic…don’t argue about it .... 

*And finally since MG has noticed it and he is damn right ... please read the entire thing before you make any statement.

I, however, suggest that if you do not like the author just do not read his writings at all....PERIOD ... That way you won't end up making such a fool of yourselves....

Its more along the lines of: appalling, disgusting and revolting

to see people with pseudo names and pseudo avatars -(evreyone in IC and more than a few around it, know who I am, name, where I live, what I do)- so easily act as judge, jury and the executioner, not only wanting to put the father on trial, but dismiss the entire  life and worth of the daughter as a mere IR supporter of 'reformer,' some of you  people make me sick.

And all of this in response to a most informed text that could be written on this unspeakable tragedy. I bet half of the commentators in here didn't read the entire text, or if they did, they didn't understand at least more than a  handful of ideas and terminology used there. Some of you are simply incredibly ignorant, arrogant  and forever (it seems) stuck in that "situation."

On  a personal note,  feeling  so immensly  insulted by the  disrespectul attacks in here on the writer and Sahabis, father and daugther (RIP), this will be my last comment on this site for the indefinite future. It's been real.

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It is fascinating

It is fascinating to see how the murder of a grieving daughter is usurped by cyber-activists to settle old accounts. From the Cyrus’s pallbearer to the born-again democrats fighting over the deceased’s political booties. Fascinating, indeed!

Keep fighting, Gentlemen. Keep fighting. This circus will remain open until your last breath.

I rest my case about

you SamSam and your xenophobic, borderline, if not outright, racist views. I am sorry, but these are the most polite words I could find. What can one says about anyone who attacks "Sheikh" Hafez.

Mammad

mr dabashi, your nost completely honest (even with yourself)

I agree with SamSamIIII, salmon Parsi & Khers

Mr. Dabashi is an Arabophile  who claims he is IRANIAN is a pro IRI and I am very shameful of Such an Iranians also Sadri's brother.

I realize that Haleh sahabi & his father  became green as oppsitions.  I also noticed that the IRR/IRI flags on their dead bodies did not have that Islamic lego on the white part of flags.

 Mr. Dabashi's picture in this blog shows the Islamic lego.

AM I wrong?  Is not a way Dabashi still showing his support for this barbaric$ anti- Iranian regime.

95%??!!!!

I understand this Mammad is a professor of chemical engineering in some American university. My friend who knew him well said that this is not the first time that he comes up with such baseless figures or exaggerated claims. In a recent rountable on VOA in which he had attended he had to be corrected by the other side for claiming that some of Iran's refineries were initiated and constructed under the IRI!! On another occasion he was given some grilling by Hasan Daei for using a similar loose language and claims.

This type of nonsense may be acceptable from popagandists of the anti- Islamic republic or some leftists who were dumped by the mullahs after the revolution but when an engineering man comes up with such a balseless and uncoroborated claim that 95% of the population were behind the revolution we should seriously feel sorry for the state of our universities. Thankfully the industry is immune from such careless cowboys. As the saying goes, "those who can't do it, teach it! "

The same exaggerating cowboy professor is using the same style of language when it comes to defend Sahabis' (father and son) involvement in the most critical period at the inception of the Velayte Faqih dictatorship. Just look at the number  of positions that Ezzatollah Sahabi had held during that critical period.

 And professor Mammad calls this: "an almost immediate break with Khomeini." !!!

Sorry old boy but almost immediate break means in matters of days or week and not years! And I am talking about the most shining examples of such disassociation with the tyranny as in Ayatollahs (brothers) Haeri-Yazdi who were Khomeini's ham-hojreh and classmates. They told him to stop his senseless killings and confiscation of people and their properties and when he didn't they pulled out of his circle of associates within a few days not years later as Sahabi did. They were too grand for Khomeini to touch them. Ayatollah Mahdi Haeri-Yazdi (aka Professor Haeri)  spent the rest of his life in academic teaching and research aboard (Oxford and Harvard) and out of the mess of patnership with the anti-Islamic regime of Khomeini.

So you have to be ultra careful with your margin of error Professor Mammad next time you want to use engineering estimates of  what percentage were behind the revolution and how immediately one cut ties with the Islamic regime. 

In defence of Samsam,

Not that he needs one, but everyone knows of my stance and Samasam's on Islam, Arabs, etc. and yet I agree with him that it was this very unprincipled "so what" attitude that brought Iran to where it is now and there are still cowboys like Mammad whocarelessly (and shamelessly) brag about it.

As I said it on a different blog, the death of Haleh Sahabi was one more tragic incident among countless many but as for her father, he had to stand trial for intimately cooperating with the evil doers of the anti-Islamic republic in their inceptive period. Angel of death had other plans for him.

And lastly, use of Laati language as Mammad accuses Samsam of is the essential Iranian characteristic (if you had done some research in the meaning of laat). So Samam, from this ommatie: well done pal.

 For an Islamic democracy

This article made a small point while missing the larger one.

The larger point is one each person will have to figure out on their own.  It is one that Nietzche knew of, but made his readers work very hard to discover.

It is a point about our persian traditions, about zoroasters philosophy and of Iranian civilization.  It is the point that unites us all against domination and seeks to restore dominion to the world dialogue.  It is one that the late Shah lived his life restoring for the world.  

جناب دباشی - برادر عربِ [ایرانی‌ نمای] گرامی‌

آقا جان شما چرا خودت رو قاطی‌ مسائل ایران میکنی‌؟  شما که چندین و چند سال است که چفیهِ فلسطین عزیز به دور گردنت است.  هزار و یک کتاب و فیلم و سخنرانی‌ هم درباره آن مردم عزیز، یعنی‌ فلسطین گرامی‌ نوشته و درست کرده و داده‌ای.  حالا چون یعنی‌ [شوربختانه] در ایران متولد شدی فکر میکنی‌ که مجبور هستی‌ که نخود اون آش هم بشوی؟  برو برادر جان.  خودت رو خسته نکن.  حالا چفیه ات رو هم سبز کردی، قربون دستت.  دیگر به خودت زحمت نده.  برو عربده بکش برای فلسطینِ عزیزت.  امیدوارم که یک روز هم پیروز شوی و کشور عزیزت فلسطین آزاد بشه و این یهودها هم به دریا ریخته شوند.  به خدا ما هم آن روز رو جشن میگیریم.  چون میدونیم به بعد از اون روز دیگر لازم نیست که قیافه زشت شما و امثال شما رو ببینیم.    

I like this blog and the comments here.

I enjoyed reading mammad's comments as much as sam sam's.

A very important point the blogger is making is the fact that Haleh was a good muslim and a solid supporter of the Islamist Revolution. I have no doubt she voted for "islamic Republic" and "velayate Faghih". Then, at some point, she turned against the regime and was murdered by it. This means that any claims of popular support for the Islamist regime are absolutely false. This tells me the vast majority of Iranians, that'd include devout muslims are solidly against the regime. That'd tell me an opposition movement led and organised correctly would overthrow this fascist regime much easier and quicker than most of us imagine.   

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Mr Mammad, your "So what ?" is exactly my point !

Your "so what" is exactly the shameless, unaccountable menatality that has screwed Iran for 1400 yrs. "So what" that the raping bedoines are our leadesr? ,so what if we cooperate with khaliffe to kill Babak,  so what if we have to speak & write Arabo Farsi to pleae the invaders? So what if the shaikhak poets do maddahi poetry for the Arab & Mongo? , so what if we kiss the foreign Sultan's arss for a buck, so what if we change our whole way of life to survive as beggers?, so what if our daughters are graded as 4th class citizens with less rights than a foreign jehadists, so what if we pimp our way for Russians & British & americans & shaikhs to earn a living?. You got my point?, your "so what" nomadic jahan vatani remedy has got us where we are today;, a non-accountable ommat of "so whats"  whose ethics & principles are as shifty as her leaders and pending change daily.

& now you know why majority Iranians feel so much at ease & comfort with shaikh Hafiz & not so with Ferdowsi. the former reminds em of "so what" that its okay to be passive and conform to tyrrany and the latter does not.

Cheers!!!

Dear AI; This was not about the late Mrs Sahabi but to point out the hypocracy of the likes of haji Dabashi. We are all at faults. Heck I could be the next conscript for omaru republic if the price is right ;). Its all about our ommatie "so what" mentality. Cheers pal!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

So what?

So what that Haleh Sahabi did what SamSam says she did - if she did? At that time, 95 percent of the nation was behind the revolution.

But, she, her father and grandfather had the courage and honesty to almost immediately break with Ayatollah Khomeini, when they realized that the system that his supporters were putting in place was not what they thought it would be. They joined the opposition less than a year after the revolution and, ever since, were harassed, jailed, tortured, and eventually killed.

Aside from SamSam himself, no one is presumably pure, unless they carry the mythical "derafsh-e Kaviani" that, in his view, is the signature of "pure" Persians. Aside from the xenophobic aspect of such a thinking, I would say: sir, people make mistakes. The good ones learn from them, admit them, and move on. Demanding purity in hindsight, which is beautiful and 100 percent correct all the time, does not get anyone anywhere. In addition, we are all here in the comfort of our homes, issuing secular "fatwas" about others, but they are there, grappling with whatever that is thrown at them on a daily basis.

Finally, SamSam always uses a "laati" language to describe his thinking. I have no problem with it. But, just wondering: is that another part of being "ultra-pure Persian" that he thinks he is? 

Mammad

Your new ears have sharpened hirre :)

Allow me to answer you in your own words:

"It's life Jim but not as we know it"

 For an Islamic democracy

It is so very true

Mr.Dabashi weaves the plight of the people of our region, be it Afghani, Irani, Iraqi, Syrian, Egyption ... into a a rug, which has the common concerns of us all wowen for Justice, Freedom, Accountability of government as its design.

How true, that the struggle of an Afghani women to get her basic right, is no different than an Iranian student asking for accountability of government and thy Syrian, who is fed up with Assad Monarchy, and Yes the palestianian, who is the most obvious example of hypocricy amidst self proclaimed lone democrtic state in the region.

Indeed there is a huge awakening in the region.   Giants can sleep, but will not sleep forever.   This is part of the sine wave of human civilization, what goes up must come down and vice versa.

That's why the Babylonian, Egyption, Iranian will have to now wake up and revive their civilizations, but only better.  It is a matter of time, but the writing is on the wall.

May we all have good dreams.

Couldn't stop noticing...

"For an Islamic democracy"...

What does an islamic democracy look like? Do you mean a normal democracy with islam as state religion? Otherwise, don't we already have it in Iran?

A totally misplaced comparsion. Why not an Islamic one?

The trouble with our western-influenced so called intellectuals like Dabashi who come from a dominantly leftist background (recently mixed with some pseudo-Islamic tendencies, thanks to Ahmad and Mahmoud Sadri's company) is that they try to present a very Iranian and in this case a Shiite tragic development through a  foreign and westernized channel, in this case Greek mythology. This is a clear example of how alienated these pseudo-intellectuals are and after over three decades of socio-religious upheavals in Iran, they still seek their answers and their heros in foreign cultures and countries. 

Poor Haleh would be agonizing in her grave  if she found that she is being compared to a daughter  born out of an incestuous relationship between her father and her grandmonther !  Worse than that Antigone to whom Haleh is resembled comitted suicide when captured by the despotic ruler who had killed her brother. Not much glory in taking one's own life either!

But had our nouveau liberal pseudo-intellectual, Professor Dabashi, studied the very religion to which Haleh had a life long allegiance and indeed its Shiite history, he would have found the personality with whom Haleh would have been proud to be compared.

Fatemeh-Ma'ssumeh (pbuh), whose burial place is the shrine of Qom near Teheran, was the young sister of Imam Reza (pbuph) the eigth saint of the Shiite sect who is buried in the holy shrine of Mashad. At the age of eighteen when Hazart Ma'ssumeh, was traveling through Iran to meet up with her holy brother who was by then in Khorasan (Mashad) was attacked (in the town od Saveh), all the men in her caravan killed herself  poisoned by a group of sword wielding thugs who were the agents of  the Abbasid Khalif, Ma'moon. They were afraid that by joining her brother Imam Reza, Hazrat Ma'ssoumeh who was an educated, intelligent and vocal in her opposition to the Abbasids (very much like Haleh in relation ot the IRI) could result in a formidable force for good. Hazrat Ma'ssumeh was taken to Qom and in just over two weeks died from the effects of poisoning. She was by all accounts a model for Haleh to resembled to.

One last misplaced parallel between Antigone and Haleh as suggested by Dabashi is in Haleh's membership of the "mothers of Peace". Among its meanings, Antigone means: opposed to motherhood!! 

On Hazarat M'assumeh:

//www.tbzmed.ac.ir/monasebat/mazhabi/MASOUME/masoume.htm

 For an Islamic democracy

Hajj Dabashi

You wrote , "We - Arabs, Iranians, Afghans, Africans, Asians, etc - are in an inaugural moment...". Wrong. Never put down or place "Arabs" before "Iranians" or even "Afhgans" who liverd on the Iranian Plateau, a land of historic civilization. Hajj Dabashi: It seems that you got to read the history once more!

PS: Dear SamSamIIII

Thanks for your info on what late Haleh was doing while she was in Paris in 1979. However, she should be forgiven since she became against VF possiby in 1982. Here are something more on Akhonds, Mullahs, and the ommaties that you are talking about: //iranian.com/main/blog/all-iranians-21

خدا بيامرزش ولی حاج دباش بت ساز تو يکی برو تو صف

ميگن پشت سره رفتگان نبايد زر زد . روانش شاد و يادش گرامی ولی اين بانو هاله سحابی همونی بود که 4 ماه در نوفل لوشاتو به عشق امامش قابلمه ميشست, پاسخ تلفنها رو ميداد ,ويرايش بولتن ميکرد و کارهايه دفتری امام امتيون رو انجام ميداد . کار به جايی رسيد که ديگه رييس دفتر امام خمينی حاج صانعی زنگ زد به سحابی که بياد و دست نوه اش رو بگيره بره که کاسه داغتر از اش شده و همراهان امام  شاکي.   کنون هم اين بانوی حديث پژوه و ارام و بردبار بدست سربازان گمنام همون امام کره ماهي خودشون از پای درامد که خدا بيامرزش.  اگه بنا بر اينه که عشق اماميون, حاج دباش و سيد ميرحسين و سيد خاتمي و دار و دسته عمرو امتي ميدل ايستی و جهان وطنيش واسه ايران دمکراسی بيارن که ای ميخوام صد ساله سياه نيارن.  شانس اوردی اين جهانشاه رفيقته و گرنه بيشتر  تيليت بودي...

راستی اين هوا هم يه تُن يه تُن "ما ملت ايران ""ما ما ما ما امت ايران" نکن... مگه تو چند نفری و چند تا دباش تو اينه ميبيني.

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Hummm

Using a Greek myth.  Is this the dawn of the new era of reconciliation.  

Have we finally come to that humble point of accepting ways of citizenship from a Western model.