TALKS

Mohamad Ala, Trita Parsi "has eaten sugar".....

to para phrase an Iranian saying.....when he said, according to you that:

"many Iranians are not ready for Democracy".

Trita Parsi, this self declared "leader for life" of "iranian americans"  who has hardly spent any part of his life in Iran, needs to pick up a few books about Iran's recent history. About our great constitutional revolution more than hunded years ago, and our nations constant struggle against dictatorships of all kind, before "eating sugar" again on matters relating to Iran.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Iraj Khan, the % sign comes after the #, NOT before!

Does Mousa have to be around for you to be correct?

By the way, how many years did you stay in the 3rd grade?

I spent 3 years in the 3rd grad myself!

Dm

I completely agree with you- and you'd know better than any of us since u live in iran

As far as "foreign intervention" goes, there's plenty of evidence that Khomeini and his crew of traitors like yazdi were propped up and promoted by carter and the Brits and French- and when you look even more closely, you clearly see the evidence of Carter's sabotage of Bakhtiar's attempt to save Iran

And it didnt take years for Khomeini take power even with the fifth biggest army in the world standing in his way

The people of Iran, like dm stated, are much smarter than those idiots in 79 who blindly followed an illiterate beevatan like khomeini

Bogus Members Iran will NOT change for better unless you change.

There are too many personal attacks on Trita Parsi.  If I understand the comments, he exchanged e-mails or talked with IRI people?  Right?  Did anybody read his book(s) to find out why he did that?

Trita Parsi and NIAC both file taxes in the USA, sources of their income are known. 

Trita Parsi has mentioned that "… many Iranians are not ready for democracy" and the comments posted prove his point.  He used to reply by posting comments but I guess he found it useless.  I have wondered why Parsi’s articles such as this one are posted on Iranian.com.

There are many at IC who wait for someone to write an article to criticize the writer. As Farmarz’s article (Perfect Mistress) yesterday proved, many criticize regardless of the topic.  For the amount of time, I wonder why those who criticize do not create their organization(s)?  Is it easier to open their big mouths while hiding behind bogus names??

Ari jaan...appologies for roode derazi in advance...

But you did put the quarter in me and pulled the handle down:)))

There are just so many things that i feel the need to take you upon , i am confused i don't know where to begin LOL...

But here we go anyway:

1- That is not a pragmatically oriented way of looking at the situation. specially not after all the economic chaos that has been unleashed upon Us (yes. I live in iran) in the past couple of years. I mean this is beyond outrageous. and with all due respect foryour opinion on this, I simply don't, even better Refuse to subscribe to the fanciful idea of needing additional years in order for iranians themselves to roll the sleeves up and do something, it will not happen and as i said so many times, we are really, and really and really wasting our times thinking that is even an option. Also, i beg to differ with you one the fact that many iranians still view any form of foreign invasion in a bad light. That has not been my personal experience. and it is most certainly an exaggeration to even think that a foreign established gov will "set" iran back that far! Ari jan i think you are really selling us (collectively speaking) short and doubting our ability to make the right decisions. One thing is that we are more educated than our folks back in those days and have a totally different perspective of the government-related issues. I mean we know what we want, we just don't want these stupidass, sobs to be on top, Correctemondo?:)

2-  Plenty of suppositions on your part! you are assuming too much and i can tell why, because in the back of your head you have the events that are trasnpiring in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am sorry aziz, but you do have to take into account the nuances and differences there as well, So on that basis you will go on and develop all that doom and gloom scenario that would (might) follow. Let's look at the flip side, What if the following events take a different course? What if this time we wind up with something better than what we did in 53?

Also, People can and will make a much more logical and reasonable and workable political stance than before. How could you discount that as politically immaterial? That, in my opinion, nullifies your statement at the end...because i believe that we will exert more control over the situation so this won't be the way politics plays itself out!

3- Maybe . then again Maybe not. I think they see here something that you guys don't see. They understand and interpret things differently obviously. All they are saying i fathom, is that Hey folks! You won't be able to realize your democratic aspiration anytime soon, Not withing the current context. Not with these towelhead at the helm and you know what? Many inside iran do agree with them.

Ari jan!!! As you said yourself "it has happened". we see plenty of those vivid examples, today, right now before our eyes. We don't needto even  imagine such a situation taking place in a post-iri period, Why would we ignore something that is taking place right in front of us, and put all our hopes and trust(well maybe not all)  in an organization who happens to be supportive of many of the policies and decisions by the same administration that is behind that devastation befalling iranians?!

DM

Diplomacy with the IRI is not a factor in Iran's democracy project per se. It's just a way to forestall foreign intervention until the Iranian people themselves bring down the regime. It may take a long time and it may suddenly surprise us. But however long it takes, add another chunk of years to it if there's foreign intervention. An attack on Iran and the establishment of a foreign backed government (real or perceived) will set us back to 1953.

Folks can be easily persuaded to suspect the post-invasion leadership of being in the pay of foreigners and think of them as puppets (as they did with the Shah). Whether the accusations are true or not is immaterial politically, this setup simply cannot produce strong leadership. Such leaders--however bright and well-intentioned-- are too vlunerable to innuendo*. Weakened by the legitimacy question, these leaders must attempt to silence opposition in order to be able to govern. This is how the cycle of repression begins. Note that this analysis is not about the leadership being tyrants at heart; it's just how the politics will necessarily play out.

I am aware that some in the pro-war camp are not in it just for the power and also want the best for Iranians, but I also think that this constituency will change their strategy for a democracy once they look more carefully into the rules of the game by reviewing their history.

* An accessible example of this type of vulnerability to innuendo is the Trita Parsi case itself. Recognizing that pereception trumps reality in politics the MEK has been able to magnify a single event of contact with an IRI official on US government business into a serious challenge for Parsi. In Parsi's case it's just a small organization that's been affected by this political phenomenon; imagine this happening (and it will happen, and has happened) to the person(s) governing a post-intervention Iran.   

The question is

Whose side are you on?

The 63 percent who oppose a war on Iran?

Or

The 13 percent (war lobby) who support a war on Iran?

The difference still remains the same,

63 - 13 = 50 percent  

Opposing the Iranian government is not the same as being pro war.

One can be anti-war but oppose the Iranian government at the same time.

The question stills remains:

Are you a part of war lobby or not?

It's not that complicated!

So hell bent on Subverting the Minority...

"What does the war lobby wants? They want the overthorw of IRI at any price even if it may lead to destruction of Iranian civil society or the invasion and the probable division of Iran. "

No iraj khan. That is what YOU think THEY Want. and all of it in one shot to boot. who say that? Did you dream these up after downing anice bottle of Tequila or what?

The fight against IRI would not necessarily lead to destruction of the civil society in its entirety if it is done right, let alone division. I mean heck, there are those who want see "Division" and separation right now and they are working hard to get it.

What you are asking at the bottom amounts to nothing but authoritarianism. Submission of the minority, that is what this is. The majority rules!!

Whereas in a real democracy even the minority gets to voice its will and agenda as loud as possible even at the cost of the "Burning of the behind of the majority"! Pardon my German.

ARI

But that is the BIG question. How can we supposedly refer to engaging the iri in any shape or form, as it having some kind of bearing or benefit on what gets handed down to the iranian people In iran!! which i assume should be our focus!! Since those outside have other options. I mean, How are you planning to create a democracy or rather a democratic system where anyone can get charged with anything in a broad daylight by the mean andlean repressing machine. The thingis that for how many more years should we or could we  endure this "method" before anything materializes, where any attempt in that regard is suppressed with full force?

I don't think you arebeing fair to the other faction of the diaspora who would rather take a differet approach than yours, namely war and the use of force.

On one hand you admit that IRI is the Ultimate violator of HR, which we all know it is the truth. Without having to read anymore, The question thatnaturally comes up would be that , So how are we supposed to go about the "engaging the IRI" process, so it will benefit the iranian people the most?? How do you negotiate with ZAHHAK e zaman!! to convince him to be kind to its people!!?? Would you disagree that any effort thatyou put in that regard, would go toward strengthening and legitimizing their base or power even more (than before)?

Would we not have a better chance if we proceed to weed them out before we can have a decent shot at a good and democratic gov...and all the good stuff that come with it:)?

Cheerios:)

Lets review

what is given:

%63 of Iranian Americans are against a war on Iran.

%13 of Iranian Americans are for a war (war lobby)

%63 - %13 = %50

The majority outnumbers the pro war lobby by %50.

It's a huge difference! 

What Trita Parsi, NIAC and other Iranian American organizations stand for is in sync with this majority.

What does the war lobby wants?

They want the overthorw of IRI at any price even if it may lead to destruction of Iranian civil society or the invasion and the probable division of Iran.

The pro war lobby needs to accept the fact of being a small minority and respect the rights of the majority.

shushtari

The burning of the theater in Abadan comes from a politcal belief system where no-holds barred, scorched earth, ends-justify-the-means actions are an important pillar. This recklesss disregard for other people is clearly evident in some of the comments made here by the pro-war IRI opposition. If I deteteced even a modicum of restraint in these verbal attacks, I would revise my opinion that if the internet barrier was somehow removed between us, these commenters should not be given access to matches.   

as I read the cheerleaders for the akhoonds here

on this site....

let me tell you 'peace loving' guys something- if you really wanted 'peace' you would do everything to get rid of this vile regime that has butchered and raped iran for the past 33 years- not sit here, and advocate diplomacy and offering 'legitimacy' to a bunch a of uneducated, beevatan akhoonds who started their reign by burning 460 innocent iranians in abadan and blamed it on savak......the rest you can read up on.

there are millions of iranians in exile today, and let me 'educate' you pacifists- parsi has zilch as far as followers go!

if you guys want diplomacy with the akhoonds, then go become an ambassador for these criminals and get on the payroll....but don't sit here in the belly of 'the great satan' and claim that this fool represents iran's interests!!!! 

Amir1973

As part of the IRI opposition it doesn't bother me if NIAC gets involved in U.S. dealings with the IRI. To influence affairs to the benefit of Iranians we all know we must engage the IRI one way or another. The modern democratic opposition prefers the diplomatic approach; that is our engagment method. The obsolete opposition, on the other hand,  cheers when car bombs kill our countrymen; that is their engagement method.

I should also point out another characterstic that divides the IRI opposition. There are those in the diaspora who disagree with the regime. That would be us. Then there are those who are merely in conflict with the IRI. That would be the Iranian diaspora war lobby. To illustrate the difference between disagreeing and merely being in conflict, imagine two men wanting the same woman. They are in complete agreement as to the object of their desire, but they are in conflict because they can't both have her.  The diaspora war lobby and the IRI are rivals fighting over the power to rule, viciously attacking whoever gets in the way. We, on the other hand are working towards breaking the old cycle of repression to create a democracy where everyone participates in the governing.

get hired as Obama's advisers

some people talk here like they got years of political experiences and well qualified to be some big shot commentators or advisers to the  US government!!!

get a life, Parsi is a well known figure when it comes to Iranian politics in Washington and his words mean some thing to US politicians dealing with Iran!!

Is he an agent of IRI? well, that makes two of us

envy is a great sin too

I wear an Omega watch

NIAC Rahbar has credibility serving as IRI UN envoy's liaison

With members of US Congress. If lobbying for business dealings with the IRI is your thing, then Brother Trita certainly is a "credible" lobbyist.

babak pirouzian, "but how do we know

many listen to Trita?"

You read his column too, didn't you?

That's why you are on this thread I suppose.

Now lets see what the latest poll says about the attitude of Iranian Americans on the subject of 'War -- Or -- Peace'.

Here is it:

"Almost two-thirds (63%) of Iranian Americans oppose military action against Iran’s nuclear sites or other facilities. In contrast thirteen percent (13%) indicated that they would support such an action while sixteen percent 16% might support it under some circumstances."

//paaia.org/CMS/2012-national-survey.aspx

I believe the vast majority of Iranian Americans are peace loving, 

I believe Iranian Americans are wise people,

hence, they stand for a diplomatic solution between Iran and U.S. 

This is also what Trita Parsi, National Iranian American Council and many other Iranian American organizations, stand for. 

Being wise, peace loving and patient, that's why

they get the support of the majority of Iranian Americans. 

//www.niacouncil.org/site/PageServer?pagename=NIAC_index  

PEACE is the way. 

Faramarz!

Any individual, any group, any entity that aligns itself with this spokesman of IRR (aka Trita Pasri) and NIAC is a culprit to the crimes, rapes, plunders, tortures, pedophilias, and abuses committed by the criminal IRR regime! The only solution to the IRR regime is its overthrown which will happen with or without NIAC's supporter's approval!

Thanks Moosir

To explore your question, "Aren't anti-NIAC people supposed to be democratic by nature?"

Most in the community quickly see through that false claim once they encounter the historically familiar style of discourse of anti-NIAC extremists. This is because the persuasive approach that they favor was historically developed by Stalin, Mao, Hitler, etc. to manipulate the under-educated masses of the period. They have been too uncreative--or perhaps too lazy-- to develop new techniques to cope with the reality that the average reader/listener is no longer a peasant isolated from the rest of the world and at the mercy of whatever misinformation the party sends down. The job of the propagandist is a lot harder now, and no arena for the lazy, under-informed, or the talentless As a result of people being better engaged and informed we have been far less vulnerable to obsolete forms of manipulation, so our community consensus has rapidly converged to your conclusion: "...they want to silence our voices and tarnish people they disagree with cheap shots..."

Defenders of Child Molesters

The Iranian-American community should have zero tolerance towards child molesters and those who support them under the guise of anti-war, anti-Israel and other covers.

If in doubt, look at the way they have reacted to the child molestation news. They are either quiet, or say it happens everywhere, or talk about other child molestation cases in other countries, or just laugh it off.

These are the people that we are dealing with here. 

Agree with Ari Ziletz fully

Trita Parsi, NIAC, have credibility amongst many Iranians including myself. To discount the fact that many support this group and their ideals is ignoring a good percentage of Iranian opposition voices.

Arent anti-NIAC people suppose to be democratic by nature? Do they want to silence our voices and tarnish people they disagree with cheap shots? This is what Fred is doing under every NIAC based article. People like Fred are propagandists. They are just like IRIB but they work for their own ideological base. 

Fantastic article!

Good informative piece shedding light on Netanyahu's biggest fear.

What a load of crap!

For someone who is supposedly well educated, Trita is unbelievably delusional in thinking that any entity can successfully engage the IR regime in anything that can be described as legitimate or genuine "diplomacy".

The correct term for what the IR does is "diplo-baazi".

Reply to Iraj Khan, and a few questions to NIAC:

you said “Trita speaks many listen, why?”

 You may have a point but how do we know “...many listen”? is there any statistics or evidence?

You said  "Beacuse his is the voice of wisdom,"  Wisdom for on halting nuclear enrichment ? or should he advocating negotiation including civil society, justice, equality, freedom of political prisoners, transparency , protecting environment, stopping overt and covert execution, the list goes on, So which  " wisdom " do you mean?

You said  "understanding, compromise" , Yes, no one with a right mind advocate war , but understanding and compromise for who? The regime or for the  people ?

You said  "and above all, the voice for Peace."  We all agree, we have to voice for peace but peace with who? peace with devil? Iranian issues is not nuclear technology or enrichment.

"And Peace is what this world needs plenty of". We all agree.

 Trita’s primarily concern is not about Iranian principal issues, in reality his organization’s main objective is protecting Iranian American enterprises, those who handsomely financially supporting him and his organization, and that’s the “COUNCIL” tittle of his organization "C in NIA- C" is all about and there is nothing wrong doing business and making money, having said that he should be honest and say it as it is . He has said it earlier in a few occasions that NIAC ‘s main mandate is not human rights issues . QUESTION: assuming the nuclear issues are resolved and sanctions gradually lifted, then what? what’ s Trita ‘s role for salvaging Iranian people? This is something that ALL IRANIAN ARE ENTITLED TO KNOW NOW.

Faramarz

"Now, how you advocate compromising with an entity like that is beyond me." That much is clear and does not need your confession. Hopefully this state of mind is temporary, and can be corrected by attention to the following points.

1. No NIAC supporter or rational non-supporter believes that negotiation with the IRI constitutes a compromise, particularly on the issue of the human rights of Iranians. Many of us see negotiations as a way to avoid war,  the ultimate violator of human rights. War is indiscriminate when it comes destroying lives. Innocents die in large numbers, their lives recklessly sacrificed to the violent conflict between a powerful few.    

2. Western pressure on the IRI--by which I assume you mean sanctions--are designed to get concessions from the IRI on the nuclear issue. A capitulation of the IRI on this issue will have no bearing whatsoever on the oppressive political system Iranians currently live under. When and if the IRI capitulates on the nuclear issue, you may find yourself "re-arranging the chairs" as the West happily welcomes the IRI into its "Saudi Arabia" club of undemocratic allies. I wager that Hassan Daei and his few well-wishers will not be the beneficiaries of this "pressure" they have pinned their hopes on.  They have a saying in the U.S, "possession is nine tenths of the law." To spell it out, the West's favorite oppressive regime for Iran will be the established IRI, not the naively hopeful MEK. 

PR campaign of face saving is well underway by the look of it.

What the NIAC supreme leader is saying here is only part of the orchestrated PR campaign-with full agreement and backing of 5+1 +Israel- to save the face of the islamic Regime after it's humiliating capitulation to US and Israel's ultimatum to limit it's nuclear enrichment programe to a "safe level" as decided by US & Israel. Full details will be fed to the gullible and excitable  crowd of "NIACollah" in weeks to come, bit by bit, piece by piece in order not to overwhelm their cognetive senses.....

As for the rest of us, I doubt we will ever know the true cost of this failed nuclear fiasco. Maybe in 30 or 50 years, when the colonial masters decide to de clasify their secret files, we might be given a hint to the dimensions of  the cost of this nuclear folly to our beloved motherland and it's people.......

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Sorry to hear that Ari

Iranian-American community is one million people strong and if you and a few hundred others back Trita and NIAC that still makes his support among our community less than one-tenth of one percent (<0.001%). That is insignificant and very close to zero.

His credibility, his judgment and motives have all been questioned. The simple fact that I brought up in my comment that he was wrong about the approach towards the Regime supports my conclusion. If you pay attention to people like Karim Sadjadpour who recently made two significant points, maybe you come away with a different conclusion as well.

Sadjadpour said that the Regime does not respond to pressure, but it responds to a lot of pressure. That’s exactly what has happened. He also said that the three pillars of this Regime are, anti-US (Marg bar Amrika), anti-Israel (Marg bar Esraeel) and Hejab (child molesters as diplomats in Brazil).

Now, how you advocate compromising with an entity like that is beyond me.

Finally, the fact that he has to sue Hasan Daii and claim that because of Daii’s assertions NIAC is losing membership is also very telling. I mean who had heard of Daii prior to Trita’s noise-making.

His ship is sinking and Captain Parsi will be the first one off the ship while the loyal soldiers like you will be re-arranging the chairs on the deck and telling everyone that all is well on the little canoe of NIAC!

Parsi has credibility with me

Faramarz, you may be aware that when you say"Trita parsi has zero credibility with the Iranian American community," you are exaggerating for dramatic effect. To restore proper reasoning into this blog's debate let me say that I am one member of the Iranian American community for whom Parsi has credibility, and I personally know several others in our community for whom this is true as well. I should add, however,  that my sampling may be biased because my Iranian-American acquaintances who are respectful towards Parsi (whether they agree with him or not) are themsleves well respected members of our community. They are typically educators, published authors, well-known artists, successful business people or otherwise exceptional in their level of engagment and influence inside the Iranian-American community--and beyond.      

Dear Faramarz: Not only

Dear Faramarz: Not only sanctions but threat of force have finally brought the IRI criminals to the negotiation table. As predicted, Khameni et al finally caved in.  Remember Ghadaffi?  Where is he now!!

Muammar Gaddafi used money, and well-timed diplomatic overtures, to worm his way into the West’s good graces. How Bush, Blair, and Berlusconi gave the brutal dictator a makeover. //www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/03/06/can-buy-me-love.html

 A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

I think NIAC wants Israel to attack IRR!? The reason being...!

After the IRR's demise, TP wants to be the next Shah of Iran!

Well, if that's the case why is he being ambiguous,  wishy washy, and ville nille about it!? Just come right out and say it!

When

Trita speaks many listen,

why?

Beacuse his is the voice of wisdom,

understanding, compromise

and above all, the voice for Peace.

And Peace is what this world needs plenty of.

Thanks for posting this article here.