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A mûrtad, and proud of it
28-Feb-2012
Last week the director of Amsterdam’s platform for political discussions De Balie invited me to comment on the debate between Imam Al-Haddad, parliamentarian Tofik Dibi and the journalist Kustaw Bessems about the position of Islam in the West. This is an extended version of my remark on Al-Haddad during this debate.
First of all let me thank you for being here.
There are a lot of people who consider you as a charlatan. I, however, think you are a brave man too for being here tonight. You are an example for many men with beards and women with headscarves sitting here in the audience while slobber run out of their mouths as they watch you, smoothly moving in your Jelaba. To those Dutch Taliban warriors, European Jihadists and Al-Shabaab combatants whose ideas do not differ much from yours, especially you are an example. But let me put this straight, most of the Dutch citizens, including me, despise those ideas strongly.
In your messages, you urge everyone to ‘read the Quran with an open mind’. I read your Holy Book and became - let me for the sake of good understanding say it in your religious language - a mûrtad; someone who rejects (the Islam). Ironically, I have much more in common with your beloved prophet Mohammad than you think. Not only he, but also the Christian prophet Jesus were both mûrtads. One refused to believe in Judaism and therefore start spreading his new message, later known as Christianity. The other, your Mohammed, was born and bred in the powerful Quraysh tribe and disbelieved the religion of his own family who had designed and worshiped the 360 godly icons in Ka’aba for generations. Yes indeed, Mohammad, for the apostate he was, destroyed the icons and introduced the religion you are worshiping now.
Mr Al-Haddad, there are three reasons which make me your enemy: I am an Iranian, not an Arab; I am born and raised as a Shia Muslim and therefore not a true Sunni Muslim as you and your Jihadist followers call yourself, and finally I am a Muslim-born who is an atheist now. A mûrtad. Three reasons for Allah to kill me and his followers to fulfil his wish.
In a sermon you gave at the al-Muntada al-Islami mosque in London - not in Mekka, Cairo or Tehran - but in the secular capital of the United Kingdom, where the unbelievers are in charge and the laws of Allah do not rule, well at least not yet, you emphasized that “capital punishment in Islamic Law is permissible for those who leave their religion”. What can I say? According to the holy book you’re right. In fact, you are just one of those consistent believers of the source of your ideas, the Quran, which has underlined the Islamic thought about mûrtads in several verses, for example this Aya in chapter four:
“They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.” [4:89]
I have to admit. This verse doesn’t quantify the style of ‘seizing and killing’ and that is the reason why the four Sharia Schools have not reached a consensus about the way in which mûrtads should be murdered: some execute the words of Allah by cutting the head using a sword, others implement the verse by burning the apostate and some carry out the punishment by hanging, which you seem to prefer. A thing you got in common with the Shia regime of Iran, as they love to hang their apostates and other sinners.
Like you, I am aware of the fact that these holy words about apostasy, godly regulations and executions are frightening. Especially for those Muslim-borns who dare to consider any doubts or even try to think without boundaries. A huge number of them call themselves Modern Muslims who try to integrate in the society and participate in the public opinion, like our debate now. But even for them you have whetted your scythe.
Though, they must be killed too. This time not because they call themselves mûrtads, but because they are the ones, according to Quran [4:89], who ‘turn away’ and in your view become ‘creative writers’ that ‘compose heretical writings’. After all you cannot ‘tolerate esoteric interpretations’ than the Quran itself.
Let’s be clear about one thing. I am not trying to put words in your mouth, as you accused Tofik Dibi for doing so. Therefore I will quote your entire expression, so we’ll have no miscommunication afterwards. In that same sermon in London you preached that “the stories of those who compose heretical writings, that you cannot tolerate esoteric interpretation, you rule on their apostasy and desertion of the religion. In the West they are known as creative writers, and are considered as amongst the most innocent, but to us they are apostates, and their blood is halal."
Let me repeat that: “their blood is halal.” In other words, it is permitted (halal) to shed their blood.
So, not just the self-called mûrtads like me, but also the Modern Muslims must be terrified by these words; cause it is easy to halalizetheir blood as well. The tragedy about this is that these Muslims trivialize your words and influences, with irrelevancy. They argue that you are just a small part of the Muslim minority and that their ‘interpretations’ must be seen as the ruling majority in The West. Quite doltishly they forget that their modernized interpretations can be ritually slaughtered by people like you.
After all, your dark regulations are the closest to the literal text of the Quran, which automatically brings them in disadvantage. Unfortunately, these Modern Muslims are not aware of the fact that the light of freedom can only defeat darkness and remain shining if they listen to these wise words of the ancient Chinese strategist SunTzu: ‘fight on your own terms or fight not at all’. And in this case the winning terms are not their moderate interpretations, but human rights, the rule of law and secularism in the framework of liberal democracy.
I just noticed that with this comment I have given you a fourth reason to lynch me. Because I am not only a mûrtad, an Iranian and born Shia but I also belong to the category of the “creative writers” who’s “blood is halal”. To be sure about this, let me now ask you my question: What do you think about me?
In his answer to my comment and question Mr Al-Haddad confirmed that in a country where Sharia rules, I would be killed for sure. His message to Dutch peopple here.
AUTHOR
Damon Golriz (1981) was born in Iran and lives in The Netherlands since 1995 as a political refuge. He is a political commentator.
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Oops. On second thought,
by Ahmed from Bahrain on Fri Mar 02, 2012 02:35 AM PSTI do apologise to the apes.
Ahmed from Bahrain
God, oner look at him
by Ahmed from Bahrain on Fri Mar 02, 2012 02:32 AM PSTand am convinced he is a descendant of apes.
Ahmed from Bahrain
from encyclopedia for EXPAT
by Siavash300 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:18 AM PST"Similarly to stoning. Nowhere in the quran is stoning mentioned" EXPAT
Islamic Sharia Law is based on the Qur'an, the hadith
According to the Hanbali jurist Ibn Qudamah, "Muslim jurists are unanimous on the fact that stoning to death is a specified punishment for the married adulterer and adulteress. The punishment is recorded in number of traditions and the practice of Muhammad stands as an authentic source supporting it. This is the view held by all Companions, Successors and other Muslim scholars with the exception of Kharijites."[15]
Because the word used in the Quran, 'zina', is exactly parallel to the Hebrew 'zanah', which strictly refers to fornication and not adultery (which is 'na'aph'), the Quran may not even be speaking of adultery at all. In that case, the point could be made that the command of the Torah on the punishment of adultery, namely, stoning to death, still stands. However, this is not the usual reason that Muslims support stoning for adultery, as most do not hold the Bible to be reliable, and instead derive from the hadiths.
Western nationalists cannot be blamed!
by Arash Kamangir on Thu Mar 01, 2012 03:46 AM PSTThe only things these Islamists in West have achieved is to cause the western nationalists to raise and get united! If these nationalists come to power one day they will not hesitate to deport many of the islamists. Countries such as Holland were so tolerant before and now after 9/11 they have changed thanks to bloody Islamist and thier backward idealogy.
Western nationalists cannot be blamed!
by Arash Kamangir on Thu Mar 01, 2012 03:46 AM PSTThe only things these Islamists in West have achieved is to cause the western nationalists to raise and get united! If these nationalists come to power one day they will not hesitate to deport many of the islamists. Countries such as Holland were so tolerant before and now after 9/11 they have changed thanks to bloody Islamist and thier backward idealogy.
Western nationalists cannot be blamed!
by Arash Kamangir on Thu Mar 01, 2012 03:45 AM PSTThe only things these Islamists in West have achieved is to cause the western nationalists to raise and get united! If these nationalists come to power one day they will not hesitate to deport many of the islamists. Countries such as Holland were so tolerant before and now after 9/11 they have changed thanks to bloody Islamist and thier backward idealogy.
Mr. Golriz thanks for sharing.
by Yana on Wed Feb 29, 2012 08:46 AM PSTshad zee
Yeeeek!
by Fesenjoon2 on Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:17 PM PSTGod this man is hideous!
Why do men of Islam always have to look like a defect among God's creation?
Is it a surprise that when people like this show up on your local Southwestern flight, everyone starts freaking out?
Instead of killing the infidels, he should shave and clean up.
No one should be punished let alone be killed for changing
by Disenchanted on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:40 PM PST...their opinion!
Quran
by RostamZ on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:47 AM PSTQuran is full of contradictions. One verse says something and then in a few page later says exactly the opposite. You can read and interpret in anyway which you want and draw any conclusion that you want. I highly recomment that people read the book "Twenty Three years" by Ali Dashti. Once you read the history of Islam and Arab tribes then you understand Quran in a different light.
SK say that to Salman Rushdi
by Doost daaram pas hastam on Tue Feb 28, 2012 09:07 AM PSTTell him he does not have to live in hiding. He can go to any local Mosque and no one will bother him.
Interesting thought experiment about going to any local Mosque. You try it. I wish to live. You go to a local Mosque and declare Islam to be a genocidal ideology created by a psychopath. Are you likely to escape unharmed.
By the way this is just a rhetorical question. Do not really do it! They could really kill you.
Soosan Khanoom
by Doost daaram pas hastam on Tue Feb 28, 2012 08:57 AM PSTIt is not really a complicated issue. "if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them"
Again I am repeating myself because a straightforward and historical reading of this verse has always meant to be about those who "turn away" from Allah and are therefore Mortad.
Now if you wish to present a different understanding of this verse, the burden of proof is on you to present us with a different interpretation and explain what Allah means by these people who turned away from him and should be sized and killed.
By saying that "my version is no version" you are saying that you can not present any alternative meaning for the verse in question. Yu are actually proving my point.
Excellent point dear Expat
by Soosan Khanoom on Tue Feb 28, 2012 08:13 AM PST" Personally I hate the IRI for many reasons. Primarily though, I hate them cos they've screwed up the very essence of what religion (ANY religion) should be about. "
and worse than them are the saudis ...
again it all goes back to Safavieh In Iran, Wahabisim is Arabia (Lowerence of Arabia ) and British Empire
Its not hate
by Cost-of-Progress on Tue Feb 28, 2012 08:10 AM PSTI hate nothing. I observe(d), Ihave seen what it has done, what it can do and what it wants to do.
Not just the book of islam -ALL books of so called faithful incite violence against those who belong to the other faiths or none at all.
Perhaps you need to read more than just the books of systematic brainwashing.
Soooosan
by Cost-of-Progress on Tue Feb 28, 2012 08:07 AM PSTif you're so gong ho on the alien scripture, then anywhere else but where it is prtacticed IS the land of infidels.
Can't have it both ways, or you'll end up like this dude imam whatever.
SK..
by expat on Tue Feb 28, 2012 08:07 AM PSTYes, I too have read what you have read, and have found no evidence for this. Similarly to stoning. Nowhere in the quran is stoning mentioned. I too do what you do and just read it for myself.
COP-why the hate? I've read the quran, torah and Bible (having studied religion and philosophy at uni). I worship what I worship and am not dictating to you what you should do. Please refrain from passing judgement on others.
Personally I hate the IRI for many reasons. Primarily though, I hate them cos they've screwed up the very essence of what religion (ANY religion) should be about.
COP
by Soosan Khanoom on Tue Feb 28, 2012 08:04 AM PSTthis is not the land of infidels ... there is no such a thing as the land of infidels anywhere on this earth
Here is actually the land of french fries and apple pies ... Yummy
: )
The word " them" here is not refer to Murtads
by Soosan Khanoom on Tue Feb 28, 2012 07:59 AM PSTNext time if go to your local mosque find any Imam or sheikh you want and have them to show you a verse that in it a murtad should be sentnced to death .... by that I mean this,
I used to be muslim now I am not, then you arresedt me and sentenced me to death by hanging me
I bet you the imam will say lots of Hmmmm ... oh well ..ok .... but this but but that ...and after hours of head scratching he can not come up with one single verse. Same with stoning to death ...
The best they can come up with is that we are suppose to study not just Qurran but hadith as well ... then you know they are talking shit ....
My version is no version. i just read Quran to see what it is there and what it is not ... not necesarily a religious person but at least i know what is written in it.
by the way, I have asked the question of showing me a proof from Quran from a few sheikhs so what I wrote here is exactly what I heard from these morons ...
Those females defending
by Cost-of-Progress on Tue Feb 28, 2012 07:58 AM PSTquran, ghoran, or whatever else alien they worship need not be in the land of infidels.
"But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them"
by Roozbeh_Gilani on Tue Feb 28, 2012 07:56 AM PSTI absolutely agree with DDPH.
Being raised in a religious family, I studied Islamic shiat feghh back home with some interest as a child and a teenager, and became increasingly disturbed the more I learnt about it. The punishment for Murtard is precisely per Mr Golriz:
"But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them"
Then, later on having just moved abroad, I started hearing the shocking news about imprisoned childhood friends, still in their teens, and distant family members being executed by the islamist regime, applying the above verse , simply because they were raised as muslims and now were believing in some leftist/secular ideology...
"Personal business must yield to collective interest."
It is pretty clear to me and most Muslim scholars
by Doost daaram pas hastam on Tue Feb 28, 2012 07:56 AM PSTJust to hear your side of it, about whom is Quran talking about here when it states "if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them" ?
There are a few more things
by Soosan Khanoom on Tue Feb 28, 2012 07:29 AM PSTconcerning this blog that I will comment on later ....
This verse has nothing to do with Murtad
by Soosan Khanoom on Tue Feb 28, 2012 07:32 AM PSTIt was just squeezed in because if you search on line some sites claim that it is meant for that ...
again ... it has nothing to do with Murtad and its definition.
It is obvious that Mr. Golriz has not read Quran himself. He is just getting caught by the web sensation on this particular verse.
There is NONE supporting the killing of the Murtad ....
Soosan Khanoom
by Doost daaram pas hastam on Tue Feb 28, 2012 07:14 AM PSTDid you even bother to read this article before writing "There is NO Capital punishment for Murtad in Quran .. There is NOT even one single verse that justifies death and execution of the Murtad."
Mr Golriz clearly offers the justification in Quran.
“They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.” [4:89]
Facts
by Soosan Khanoom on Tue Feb 28, 2012 06:27 AM PSTThere is NO Capital punishment for Murtad in Quran .. There is NOT even one single verse that justifies death and execution of the Murtad. But then who takes the time to read Quran or to find out what is there and what is not.
Now , Why is it allowed and has been practicing? all because the fake hadiths.... Bull Shits
Just like stoning , Murtad killings absolutely has no Quranic back up ...
PERIOD
Iranian.com, not islam.com
by Cost-of-Progress on Tue Feb 28, 2012 08:00 AM PSTWhat are these people doing in the land of infidels? They need to GTF out immediately - or, shave, put on proper attire and join the 21st century.
It ain't 632 AD anymore. Religion has shown its true face in the past few centuries (fixed the error, I had said decades b4) and it is butt-ugly.
Now back to Iranian.com.