Symbol of Tolerance

Director of the British Museum on importance of 2600-year-old Cyrus Cylinder

Share/Save/Bookmark

Symbol of Tolerance
by ShirinT
21-Feb-2012
 

TED: "A clay cylinder covered in Akkadian cuneiform script, damaged and broken, the Cyrus Cylinder is a powerful symbol of religious tolerance and multi-culturalism. In this enthralling talk Neil MacGregor, Director of the British Museum, traces 2600 years of Middle Eastern history through this single object. The writer and presenter of the BBC Radio 4 series "A History of the World in 100 Objects" and the accompanying book."


Share/Save/Bookmark

 
Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

On IC everyone is all knowing

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Man so many posters on IC think they know it all. 

One person thinks he knows all about Cyrus 2500 years ago! Another one knows everything about American policy. God I did not know we had so much knowledge among the diaspora.

But is it knowledge or delusion. Me thinks we have a lot of ego but not a whole lot of knowledge.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Bahmani

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Were you there and say Cyrus do this horrible things? If not then why should I take your writings seriously? 

Now a days it is "hip" for some Iranians to badmount anything Iranian. 


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Darius you may as well list em all, their policy is set in stone

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama all in love with extremism for Iran, middle east and north africa.


default

Who is your favorite empire builder?

by darius on

George Bush ?

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Bahmani, The USA is morally Bankrupt, Since Carter

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

They are benefitting from the accomplishments of their recent ancestors and they will be finacially bankrupt also, if they don't change.  I know they are financially bankrupt today, living on printed money and paying for their entire military 100% on loan, but I mean totally bankrupt to the extent that they are weak within and unable to cope.


Siamak Asadian

Bahmani jaan, you might be incorrect on both accounts

by Siamak Asadian on

A) Achaemenids were not exactly a "slave" driven  economy: what is referred to as a proper "Slavery Mode of Production" in school of historical materialsim, but rather a Tributory mode of production. Simply meaning that the surplus and wealth accumulation for the state was based on the Tributes given to the state. The stone reliefs of Takht Jamshid, showing people of different nations arriving with their "gifts," their tributes is a historical graphic reminder of the centrality of such wealth accumulation in Achaemenids Era. Furthermore they seem to have a purely pragmatic, utilitarian apporach to "politcs," which was a sort of a non-politics. Their take was basically: do whatever you want to do, worship whatever you want to believe in , speak whatever language you want to speak in, BUT don't be late with your Tribute, or you know what, ( sort of an ancient enlightened Mafia, if you will!!!).

American novelist Gore Vidal has a great novel on ancient Persia: Creation (novel) it has also been translated into Farsi as "Afareinesh." The novel actually goes into the historical details of many of such arrangments.

 Creation (novel)

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_(novel)

On the Tributary Mode of Production see:

The state and the tributary mode of production

//books.google.com/books/about/The_state_and_the_tributary_mode_of_prod.html?id=nqHJqAus2SUC

=================================

B) On the Greek side of things, it's even more complex than ancient Persia, but since this is gettign a bit too long winded, I'll just post a reference in here. Cheers

A Study of Democracy in Ancient Greece
Its Meaning for Today

//www.marxists.org/archive/james-clr/works/1956/06/every-cook.htm


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

That is a Myth bahmani and history doesn't compute with that

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

The vast majority of the empire was taken with out killing, it accepted local leaders and their administrations as they were, accepted their gods and their languages.  The ideal the persians were defending, is also rooted in why we are called Irani today,an ideal that united the leaders of the day and the people, rooted in zoroastrianism.  It's far superior to the ideals of any of the empires since, including the ideals pursued by the US Empire.  Do you have any idea what ideal the persians stood for back then was?  And why it spread across the known world with out war or submission, but willing surrender?  What ideal did the King of Kings back then work to realize?  Many do not know and the tripe they write is a reflection of this ignorance.


bahmani

Cyrus freed everyone except the Persians...

by bahmani on

The myth-take of Cyrus is that none of this was done on the personal popularity and good looks of Cyrus, but rather through the tip of his blood-soaked sword.

Murder, on a ridiculously large scale, has a way of "establishing an empire" over the conquered.

While the hebrews revere Cyrus for righting where they were wronged by giving them their power back, after he conquered their lands, everyday Persians were not afforded such luxuries.

Persians, Egyptians, Greeks, Meds, Babylonians and all the other conquered and overtaxed tribes that made up the Great Persian Empire, were all slaves within the outstanding system of administration, taxation, and communication, the military, artillery, naval, and infantry genius that fed the pan-global state that ruled the world with an oppressive fist for a mere 200 years, before Alexander crushed it in less than 20.

I look at the Cyrus cylinder and wonder what was written on the other side we cannot read.

based on the facts of the way the Persian Empire seemed to operate, I think it must have read something like this,

"...and all of you are most definitely my personal bitches..."

Sorry, witnessing Iranians "being proud" of the the murderous accomplishments of the Persian Empire is like the Greece of today being proud of Ancient Greece. The 2 are VERY far apart, and in this case both countries are both morally and financially bankrupt. As evidenced by their current state of affairs.

To read more bahmani posts visit: //brucebahmani.blogspot.com/


Reality-Bites

VPK

by Reality-Bites on

Regarding this comment of yours:

 "..Islamic politics were pushed as the solution for all our problems for years. The one good thing we get out of IRI is knowing what it really is. The price was high but maybe we learned what not to do and what does not work..."

I agree with you 100%.

Even though Iran was a monarchy before the rule of the IR, for the past few centuries the Islamic clergy exercised as much real power as the various kings. The difference was that the power of the Mullahs was behind scenes up and down the country.

The power of the mullahs was manifested in different ways. It could take the form of Mullahs directly advising kings or pushing for Islamic rules/justice/punishment to be implemented. It could also take the form of payments by the kings and sucking money out of people in massjeds for all kinds of things they dreamt up.

Perhaps, most importantly of all was the influence mullahs had on ordinary people in almost every locality of Iran. For centuries in most areas mullahs/massjeds were the only source people would turn to for help and guidance on day to day issues and probably all issues and problems, not least the powerful Bazaries (always in bed with the mullahs). Often mullahs were the only people who could read and write in a locality and it wasn't difficult for the mullahs to manipulate/brainwash/control (you name it) the people to suit their own ends.

So, yes indeed, the mullahs were always at least partly in power behind the scenes in Iran and managed to fool the people for all that time. But now, as you say, with the advent of the Islamic Republic, for the first time in Iran's history, mullahs have acquired power openly and directly with their own regime, and now people can see the true nature of these leeches who sucked on the blood of Iranians for all these centuries.


alimostofi

VPK: Divine ....... Is it a

by alimostofi on

VPK: Divine .......

Is it a miracle that Iranian culture has survived the most horrible invasions?

Iranian spirit is divine. Each one of us is noble and loves his Iranian roots. We have written about it no matter what they did to our language as it changed from Cuneiform to Palvavi to Arabic letters. Our hearts are always Iranian. The vocal tradition of Zend Avesta is from the last galactic alignment 20000 years ago. No matter what other system tries to rule us, they cannot take our Free Will. And that is our contribution to the Universe. Free Will. Nobody else has done this. It is a fact.

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Regarding Islamist politics

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Islamic politics were pushed as the solution for all our problems for years. The one good thing we get out of IRI is knowing what it really is. The price was high but maybe we learned what not to do and what does not work.

No there are no  divine regimes none that will magically bring us greatness. Next time try the well know solution of regular democracy and hard work. Then we just might get somewhere; not great but maybe more reasonable.


alimostofi

A: hmmm .. Ali

by alimostofi on

A: hmmm ..

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

 


Reality-Bites

Roozbeh jaan

by Reality-Bites on

It is not often I disagree with you, but Islamic fundamentalism had been on the rise way before MRP's time. For example, some of the ministers during the Qajar period were out and out mullahs. Indeed, it was the prevalence of the influence of the mullahs throughout that Iran that prompted MRP's father to put them in their place.

That said, it is true MRP's autocratic rule and refusal to implement true and lasting political freedom in Iran, as well as ignoring the continued rise of the mullahs, despite repeated warnings, led to the nightmare of the Islamic Republic..... (no doubt others will argue ad nauseam, as they do here, that it was all the fault of the foreign powers etc).


anglophile

Search me Gov!

by anglophile on

Stop living in the world of occult Mostofi and get real. Eskandarnameh is but a fictional account of Alexander's times and life (mixed with some real stuff for confusing the reader). Please come up with something real for once!


alimostofi

A: and what does it

by alimostofi on

A: and what does it say?

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

 


anglophile

Which one? LOL

by anglophile on

You obviously don't know or haven't read it yourself. there are several Eskandarnamehs!!

alimostofi

A: Eskandarnameh Read

by alimostofi on

A: Eskandarnameh

Read Eskandarnameh.

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

 


anglophile

Mostofi jan this is not about occult dear

by anglophile on

Which half of Alexander was Iranian? His upper torso or the lower one :))


alimostofi

This Mute Thing: Beetarbiyat

by alimostofi on

This Mute Thing: Beetarbiyat

Not one word from what inspired The Good Thoughts from Zend Avesta that educated Free Will to all who created it. That is the only moot point that he missed. There are also buildings in Greece that use Iranian art in column structure that are a testament to universal declarations of peace and agreements between cultures. We Iranians need to write our own history na een agha. Alexander was half Iranian. There is more.

Ali Mostofi

//twitter.com/alimostofi

 


12 Petals

Cultural principle of human rights

by 12 Petals on

This historical evidence shows that the cultural principle of human rights, which in a general sense is the right to pursue life-sustaining goals, interests, and beliefs freely and responsibly, transcends the boundaries of the East and the West.


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Object A Major Player In The Iran Iraq War of 539 b.c.

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

This is such a lie, there never was an Iraq, the brits have done their best to invent a unique history for Iraq, to give its existence legitimacy, to fulfil their agenda to dominate the middle east and this guy in no exception, a blatant misinformation of our history for wests political agenda's, babylon was babylon not Iraq and it was not at war with the Persians, nor the other way around, cyrus entered Babylon with out a battle and accepted all the leaders and rulers as part of his people and kept every leader in their place, rebuilding the city, a tolerant leader, restoring freedom of thought, religion and expression, most important today because it is the opposite of our neocolonial master the USA and their allies.  What we see the west did to the Iraqi's who they invented a 100 years earlier with the brits, was not acts of tolerance and acceptance, but oppression, creating a nation where 1 in 2 children is an orphan, humiliation of the old regime and torture.  In a nut shell there you have it, the difference between the USA and its leadership, culture and philosophy and the Persian Monarchy, its leadership, cullture and philosophy.  Very Important for Iranians to Reflect on th Facts we know for sure and not the campaigns waiged on us.    The Persian Monarchy, the culture and language it defends is no doubt why aristotle said a king is unlike a dictator who serves only his own personal interest using absolute power against the law to serve himself, but a king is a leader who serves the welfare and promotes the freedom of his people, treating all equally, abiding by the law and not using absolute power.  Yet somehow disingenuous Iranians forget that the late shah never had a single case of using absolute power, never broke the law, never did anthing but focus on the freedom, peace, progress and improving the human rights of Iranians from what iran was like before him, for sure ordinary iranians of various minority religions were free to reach the highest levels of power, coming from some of Irans most modest families, the shahs multicultural and tolerant team defended the character and freedom of all Iranians patriotiically, the truth makes his team being betrayed by Iranians a lot tougher to swallow.  The traitor is like a plague as cicero observed far worse than all the murderors of the state combined.


Roozbeh_Gilani

Symbols of utter desperation and hypocricy

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

In all unfairness to the man himself, Cyrus, and whatever he stood for 25 centuries ago, he and his cylinder have become the iconic symbols of moral, economical and political bankruptcy of every single tin pot dictator of modern Iranian history.

From the Shah Mohamad reza Pahlavi whose SAVAK was the main cause of growth and ascent to power of Islamist Fascism in our country, to that contemptible minion of & wanabe Adolph Hitler, the Fake "Doctor" ahmadinezhad, have all resorted to him and his cylinder when the going gets so extremely tough... 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


anglophile

حالا بازم بگید اینگلیسا بد هستن

anglophile


بابا خدا پدرشونو بیامرزه که آثار تاریخی ما رو به این خوبی‌ نگه میدارن و به همه دنیا نشون میدن که باعث کسب آبرو میشه. بیخود نیست من اسمم رو گذاشتم انگلوفیل! :)))

Azarbanoo

Thanks for posting

by Azarbanoo on

This great video.  WE IRANIANS (Persians)  Must be proud of our history and our civilization which had contributed to humanity so much.  AFSOOS, we are Ashamed & embarrassed by the 33 years of barbariat which Islamists brought & added to the our golrious history.


Bavafa

What a great program….

by Bavafa on

One that has set aside all the ugly politics and focused on this great part of our history.

  Very much appreciated and enjoyed it.

 

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad


R2-D2

Thank You So Much .....

by R2-D2 on

For This Absolutely Delightful Presentation - I Hope Everyone Shares This Beautiful Video On Their Facebook Page :)

Tks Again ..... !

 

 


Nazanin karvar

*

by Nazanin karvar on

شراب جان قطعا دیدن آثار تاریخیمان در موزه‌های دیگر درد‌ناک هست ولی شاید بهتر باشه که این اثار در دستان و تحت‌الحفظ کسانی قرار بگیرد که قدر انها را میدانند نه مثل کشور خودمان کمر به نابودیشان میبندند  :-(

وب‌سایت موزه ملی ایران در میان مزه‌های جهان هیچم شد!!؟ 

 //www.chn.ir/news/?section=2&id=54142

 چنار ۱۲۰۰ ساله نیاسر جان داد

 //www.chn.ir/news/?section=2&id=54180

درختان موزه پارس مسول نگهداری سفالینه‌های ساسانی

 //www.chn.ir/news/?section=2&id=54097

چوب حراج بر کتب خطی یزد

 //www.mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=1536552

 

پانوشت: موزه نه مزه... :)) 


Mash Ghasem

Pendar jaan, would you settle for Emam's Plastik instead?

by Mash Ghasem on

Emam's HARDLINE in your hot little hands, is just so symbiotic!!!

Hold on to it tight, and never let it go. After all, it's you "natural right" as you "put it". Enjoy.


پندارنیک

Any Rembrandt in the house?

by پندارنیک on

As unbelievable as it might sound, the Belshazzar's feast is still going on.......well, sort of...................it's held in  various "war rooms" and behind many closed doors where the sworn enemies of our nation are celebrating what they consider our imminent defeat .........It won't be long before they realize the writing's on the wall: " The nuclear technology is Iran's national right and legal property..........it's there to stay......"


Red Wine

...

by Red Wine on

یونسکو بارها از انگلستان،فرانسه،اسپانیا،هلند،ایالات متحده (دانشگاه‌ها خیر،فقط موزه‌های آمریکایی) ،روسیه خواستارِ بازگشتِ آثارِ باستانیِ :عراق،پرو،چین،هند،ایران،یونان و مصر به این کشورها شده است.حتی اینان قراردادهای نیز به امضا رسانیدند و چندی نیز تحفه و غیره از گنجینه آن کشورها بدنجا فرستاده ند اما کافی‌ نیست.

-بدونِ پیش شرط ،هر گونه لابی گری و گربه رقصانی و سنگ اندازی در کارِ سازمان ملل و دفاتر و شعباتِ وابسته...این آثار کاملا باید به کشورِ اصلی‌ بازگردانیده شوند

-امروزه روز با تکنولوژیِ جدید در اموراتِ موزه گردانی و باستان شناسی‌،تمامی این کشورها قادر به نگهداریِ اموالِ تاریخی خود هستند.

-کشورهایِ نام برده شده که این آثارِ باستانی را در حفظ خود دارند،سالهایِ سال درامد از این راه کسب کرده ند،قسمتی‌ از این سرمایه باید به کشورهایِ صاحب تمدن پرداخت شود.

-بیش از ۳۰% این آثار که در اختیارِ کلکسیونر‌های خصوصی هست،شناسایی شده‌اند،اینها باید در برابرِ یک دادگاه بین الملی جوابگو باشند تا بدانیم از چه راهی‌ این اموال را به دست آورده ند.

-مسئولانِ سیاسیِ کشورهایِ موردِ بحث موظفند که از حراجِ بی‌ رویه این آثارِ باستانی جلوگیری کرده و دلالان و دیگر پدر سوخته گانِ این دنیایِ کثیف را معرفی‌ کرده و مجازات کنند.

زمانِ خوابِ عوام پایان گرفته و اینان حقِ خودشان را طلب میکنند،هیچ گونه عذری در این خواسته منطقی‌ موجه نیست و تمام.