Abarmard

Revolutions are not

Revolutions are not inherently bad and they are an organic process in most cases. Iranians will rise up and will have a revolution if all the stars line up and the society reaches a critical mass and you and I cannot avert one if that occurs!

What you and I can do is to empower people to take their own destinies into their own hands and stand up for their rights. Capitulation to injustice, corruption, bigotry, discrimination, squandering of national treasures to enrich only a few is not what moves society toward progress.

Here in America, one obscure blog, one patriot at a time, alone has been an instrument of monumental change in the American politics. I'm talking about Markos of the dailykos. It was only 4 years ago that America was almost hijacked by the minority group of right wing zealots who are hell bent on establishing theocracy in the US and implement Christian laws as the law of the land. Can you imagine if Americans had surrendered to their will because they are some of the nastiest, most influenctial (Dobson et al) and most vociferous
group of miscreatine.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markos_Moulitsas_Z%C3...
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Kos

The progressive societies are ruled by laws not men. Discard those laws that protect all groups and all ideologies, the Americans or the Danes or any other Western/progressive society will turn into Iran, perhaps even worse because there are always reactionary elements who want to monopolize and usurp the power and all the fringe benefits that comes with it. You're too naive if you think people in the Western societies are more evolved because of they live in a so-called civilized society!

Here is Marko's new book, "How to take on the System". Maybe we should read his book and translate it to Persian. We can learn from what Obama did as far as how he organized grass root organizations without being politically threathing to the establisment...I don't have all the answers but One thing is for certain, the IR has done irreprable damage to Iran, to Islam, and its society only to protect itself not Iranians. Iran and Iranians deserve better even if they are indoctrinated and force fed that this is the best they can do.

Anonymous0987

I would love Iran to be a secular democracy. Since the beginning of the revolution, our family as a whole was against the revolution. I now know that we can't go back and are where we are. Your question is fine, but my answer is a question of how? I think we have tried to experiment with revolutions and have realized that the solution of democracy has not been discovered within our society, that I believe now is the main ingredient. Perhaps for Iran is different than other similar countries, and we need to change ourselves as a nation then make the system follow, not the other way around. Wishful? maybe, any suggestions?

1. If you mean influence in

1. If you mean influence in the entire Middle East region, the answer is NO. Iran has to get its own internal house in order before they can begin to exert any influence elsewhere.

2. On the condition that those countries do not engage in activities that threaten the sovereignty of negighboring countries or the God-given right of all of its people to live in peace.

3. Please be more specific. Implement policies where?

4. The IRI doesn't have to agree with the U.S. or any other country for that matter. However disagreement doesn't grant the IRI the right to ignore it's responsibilty to coexist with the rest of the world in a responsible and straightforward manner.

5. Having a truly democratic Iran ultimately has nothing to do with cooperation with or capitulation to the United States.

6. The revolution in 1979 was not intended to replace the monarchy with an even more dictatorial form of government, as is the case, so no, I do not believe the majority of Iranians support the current regime. As far as the United States government, Iranians are very aware of all America's flaws and faults, but undoubtedly do not have access to the "big picture". Of course they disagree, but without free and open access to all pertinent information, they may not know all aspects of what they are disagreeing to.

7. The only people who will benefit are those who stand to profit directly from such dominance. No one else. The people have been ignored for the past 30 years, and unless the government were to change the state of the nation will not change.

8. Iran is not changing dramatically from traditional to modern. It was modernizing until 1979. Societies can progress and modernize, even rapidly, while manitaining its core values and traditions. Currently, the more accurate description would be stagnant.

9. Unless you count cheap dental work or plastic surgery as social progress, the current regime has for the most part stopped it altogether. The will of the people is differerent than the will of the IRI, which is why the IRI tightens their grip when they feel even remotely threatened. But there is always hope.

10. Iranians in the U.S. and elsewhere have used the system to achieve their goals, and the same can be done at the geo-political level. One of the US's greatest problems is that they simply do not understand the mentality of the region and the people. But a smart government would know how to allow the US in the region and use them to their advantage, in a way that would benefit all of the people in the region.

11. The warmonger strategy is another issue that Iran can use to its benefit, but has this far failed to do. Nobody wants war. However as long as the IRI adopts an antagonistic attitude and stance, Iran can be hurt more than it can be helped.

12. As long as the power is exercised responsibly, I don't think it's a big issue, but the question is also a bit vague.

13. Iranians are a traditional yet modern people. Iran is a nation that is going around in circles. The current regime has no hope of leading the people to anything or anywhere other than ruin.

14. If Iranians do question it, no one talks about it.

15. I don't believe a consensus has been reached yet concerning the definition of an ideal society.

16. 1906: Persian Constitutional Revolution and establishment of the first Parliament. 1953: Operation Ajax 1979: The end of Iranian progress and the return to the 3rd century.

17. Iran is a Moslem country. But I believe that the majority see themselves as secular Iranians first.

Lastly, the IRI truly doesn't care what anyone else believes. They are only concerned with complete capitulation to their views.

Hope I didn't miss anything. Great post, Abarmard.

it ABSOLUTELY matters if you live outside of Iran

people who have lived outside for many years, just don't get it. I admit they are Iranians and patriots, but they can't possibly understand the real issues regular Iranians have to live with every day. It is easy for them to advocate extremist positions in either direction.

The same way that Tehran is not Iran, outside of Iran is definitly not Iran.

Priority has to always be given to people directly under the regime. We saw the fiasco with Iraqi exiles and how uinformed and naive they were about their own country. Iranians are even worst.

The question we need to ask.

What is the dividing line between patriots and traitors?

If someone pimps for a “limited surgical attack” is he/she being a patriot?

USA is IRAN’S enemy at this time and point in IRAN-US relations.

Any Iranian who chose to help US achieve its objectives
as far as Iran is concerned is a traitor.

Generally speaking, nothing politically good comes out of this site for Iran.

The discussions are pointed at non-Iranians.

The target audience is USA. Keep that in mind.

Here is a funny news to cheer you up.

According to recent news;

Thieves puncture tanks to steal pricey gasoline

It is only fitting for a country that goes to war to steal
Iraq’s oil have its own citizen’s steal from one another!

“Man, I thought it was almost getting boring watching America collapse.
But the news today proved that it can be really fun watching the nation
of savage retards digging their own graves.”

Think about it, those who left Iran for good, for this!
How do they feel about Iran? Very resentful, I would think.

They have no hope for a bright future.

though, I do not support or agree with all IRI policies,

I do believe there is bright future for Iran. It is only a matter of time!

These questions are loaded

These questions are loaded questions and designed to promote the reformist vision of future Iran, which is only cosmetically different than what Iran has right now.

Abarmard, you're too naive if you think your agendas are not crystal clear!!! But I give you credit for playing dumb!! Here is a question for you:

Why do you think Iranians don't deserve a secular and democratic government and have to be stuck with a theocracy forever???

barikallah!

Abarmard jan, once again you have provided us with a thought-provoking blog.  Each and every question that you ask is extremely  important and I agree that every Iranian should consider answering them before he/she takes any political stance on Iran. 

I especially like the questions:

"Does the US regional domination and attitude, a help to Iran or against the will and long term benefits of them?"

"Does the US have a Right to implement her own policies the way they see it fit? Should any country in their own region stand against that move? If not why?"

(in my opinion) We as people of South-Western Asia (middle-east) are currently facing the deadly obstacle of being colonized by the world's current #1 colonialist power, USA.  We need to formulate a strategy forward that leaves us out of US hegemony and that also is not directly reactionary to US's hegemony in the region.   

Sorry if I was not clear

The questions are based on your political opinion. Regardless whether we know what the people of Iran want, we have formed our political ideology. All the questions here are based on the personal views and understandings of the current Iran and Iranians.

Questions such as "Do majority of the people in Iran agree with the current regime or the US policies, or neither? Why?" should be read "Do you think that ... But I thought that was given. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for taking the time, these are positive communication.

To: jamshid

You are right. I am part of Iran, and Iran is part of me.

I just wanted to point out to Abarmard, that several of these questions start with "Do majority of the people... ", and "Do the people of Iran like..." which call for speculation on my part. How do I know what Iranians want? I can only speak for me and a few others around me who- more than likely -think and feel like me. 

 Those should have been framed better; maybe :" What do YOU think...". or "what do YOU like to see..". Only then we may draw any worthwhile conclusion from the responses.

:-)

Yours,

Ali P.

Abarmard and Ali P.

Abarmard: each of your questions are worthy of a blog of their own. I suggest however that you number your questions for easier reference.

To answer your first question, as long as the IRI is abusing its people's human rights, suppressing democracy, and spreading economic inequalities, or otherwise violently opporessing its own citizens, it has NO rights whatsoever because it is an illegitimate government.

Ali P: You ARE part of the people of Iran, don't forget that. Therefore, your wants and other "individual" Iranian's wants add up to what all Iranians want.

And it does not matter that you live abroad or in Iran, as it does not matter whether you are Kurd or Farsi, as it didn't matter that Khomeini was living in Iraq, etc.

Q1) The Iranian government

Q1) The Iranian government has the "national" right to do whatever it's people support. This means if they are elected democratically and if they have democratic institutions, then the people can have a national agenda.

But it has the "international" responsibilities (e.g. not to kill people or pollute the environement) and "international" rights (e.g. sovergnty)

Q2) Yes but only partly. The people of the land should have control of their political destiny. Over their land, over the environment, their protection etc. But no, in that they cannot threaten other regions or destroy the environement. They are part of the earth.

Q3) No  the US does not have such a right.

No country can meddle with another country. We all have rights to self preservation.

Q4) Iran shouldn't agree with anyone. A democratically elected goverment should implement the will of the people. If the people wish to have business or other ties with another country, the government must do what the people want. It's called a mandate.

Q5) HELL NO. Domination is completely unhealthy and will NEVER yeild democracy or sovergnty or self rule or self sufficiency.

Q6) No one knows what the majority of people in Iran want. In the absense of sound, reliable, trust worthy and verifiable statistical data, we have no clue what Iran wnats. We haven't had fair elections, fair education system, reliable census data, independent organizations, impartial research....We know NOTHING of what Iranians really want. Except the obvious, being freedom and a healthy life.

Q7) Define dominant role?

More benevolent? More educated Iranians working in the region for fair wages? More R&D? More dominant in education, health care, technology, foreign business associations, .....dominant in good ways which improve the lives of iranians and other humans...yes it would be good.

But more dominant in that I have more bombs and i can threaten and control my people better than you can...well that just fudging sucks.

Q8) No one knows what Iran is. Theres no sound and apolitical data. it's just you and me guessing based on what we see in our families. That's not a scientific way to answer important questions about where society is going. Define modern. DEfine traditional...

Q10) There's been social progress in the middle east in the past 100 years? That;s news to me. But the internet and flow of information, and thenew generation have placed some demands. Eventually governments will have to meet those demands in some ways. At least enough to shut up a revolt.

Q11) Domination sucks always. It's never helpful. Especially when the US never INTENDS to help anyone anyway!

Q12) War kills. Any questions?

Q13) No statistics on what the people in Iran want.

Q14) No statistics on who Iranians are, how they define themselves. Where they want to go. What they believe...etc..

Q15) All societies are always questioning religion. Political stiflement (is that a word?) makes it more apparent. But even in happy time people ask philosophical questions.

Q16) We should never forget what and who we are and what we want (after we figure it out). You mean TRIAL and error? Well....we don't have to re invent the wheel...we know that stoning is bad...no need to trial and error that kind of barbaric behaviour. There are basis we can build on. We don't have to start everything from 0. No such thing as ideal society, no one has ever acheived it.

Q17) uh....i don't know.

Q18) Yes majority of Iranians are muslims.

baba khaste shodam to ham hosele dari....man dige miram bekhabam...in hame soal javab kardi saram dard gereft.

1- If it’s a legal and

1- If it’s a legal and freely elected regime, and only if its in the benefit of Iranian people, yes, it can.
2- Yes it does.
3- If U.S or Iran or any other countries policies in the region, is in the ultimate benefit of the people of the region,(even if also benefits the U.S or whoever), then yes, it should implement it.
4- Agree or disagree in what? That’s now how politics work!
5- Yes that’s one way, but obviously not a favorable or reasonable way to do it. We can bring about democracy to ourselves without anyone “dominating” us.
6- The majority of people in Iran are pro-U.S, anti IRI, and anti Bush administration.
7- History and logic and fact and reality have proved that none of the policies of the IRI has benefited our people. Its policies has nearly destroyed our country.
8- Changing dramatically, but not at the desirable speed. Although the majority of Iranians are staunch anti IRI, we’re not doing nearly enough as other people under tyranny have done such as Ukraine, Nepal, Georgia, Iraqis under Saddam, Afghanis under Taliban, South Africa under apartheid, and others.
9- No it hasn’t. But it has used rarely-seen-in history force and brutality to stop the progress, thus slowing it down.
10- The current U.S policy is wrong, but it will change soon.
11- When it comes to the IRI, U.S is a victim, not the warmonger. The IRI has been the warmonger for the last 30 years.
12- They like to feel powerful in the region, but their priority is demolishing this regime.
13- Neither. It’s a traditional society moving towards modernity with the help of globalization, WITHOUT the help or the will, of the current regime.
14- Iranians have always been socially liberal. They never carried religious bias.
15- They shouldn’t. The first step towards getting to that stage is for the regime in Tehran to be overthrown. Without that, either its gonna takes us decades to get there, or we will pay a heavy price after a long time, to get there.
16- Constitutional revolution – Monarchist coup de eta – Islamic regime establishment (Or the Islamic and leftist coup)
17- Absolutely not.
18- We have to realize that the single biggest reason our country is in this shape is because of the application of Islamic laws by this regime. So you would fight the IRI and application of Islamic laws, simultaneously.

Anonymous Observer, you have

Anonymous Observer, you have posed the ultimate question! Great job my friend.

Q 16

What happened in 1906? 1953? 1979?

Shit, shit, more shit :-)

Q 18

Do you think that the Islamic Republic would like its citizens to
believe Islamic way is their way? If yes, then bashing Islam to oppose
the regime would make people accept the opposition or deny them? who
benefits?

IRI, at least on the surface, is definitely preaching the "Islamic way." Although they fight among themselves as to what that means! But attacking people's religion is always counter-productive. Religious beliefs are legs that people stand on. We all have some kind of beliefs, even if atheist. There is actually no reason to attack religious beliefs. All one needs to do is get them to study; study their environment; study other people, etc.

If you show people how to make a telescope and how to inspect and study a comet, etc, they quietly stop believing that it is the saints that fly through the nights sometimes. That way, people feel that they "found out" and graduated to a higher understanding, and they feel good about it, as opposed to feeling faced with someone who is trying to take their legs away from them.

Q 11

Does the warmonger strategy help or hurt the current regime of Iran?

I doubt that wars have EVER been good for people. Even the most "sacred" wars, when inspected closely, are suspicious as to their being a positive factor for the people. We look at the World Wars and when we inspect closely we find that there were those who started it, those who halped it continue and at last those who stopped it. But there are far too many incidents that led to those wars that are very suspicious. These wars could have been avoided. They could have been reduced to smaller wars. But there were warmongers who didn't want that. It is almost undisputed that all wars have benefitted a few and harmed most.

Q 8

Is Iran a static society or changing dramatically from traditional to modern?

I see Iran as changing - I don't know about dramatically or not. I think Iranians are quite interested in progress. I think if Iranians lived in Mexico which is neighboring the US, by now Mexico would be very advanced country but it is not now. I am not sure why that is.

I think in general all people have a tendency to progress. There are elements in or around a society that sometimes manages to keep them down and stop their progress. By identifying these elements one can help improve conditions significantly. If we think we know what these elements are and we expose them but progress doesn't occur, that is a sign that we have not CORRECTLY identified the negative causes, or at least not ALL of these causes.

Q 7

If Iran under the current regime has a more dominant role in the region, would it be beneficial to the people? Why?

Domination is not the highest desireable state for a country. Coexistence and cooperation is better. When you look at countries that are almost at the same lever, you find that they are having a better time with each other than those who are dominating their neighbors. Dominating countries have "enemies" but cooperating countries have friends. Not hard to see which one is better for people.

Q 6

Do majority of the people in Iran agree with the current regime or the US policies, or neither? Why?

Agreement is a relative term. They agree to the degree that they see no other choice. Obviously, if there was some kind of a better choice available to them, they would want that instead. Majority of Iranians, just like the people of any nation, are probably constantly demanding better conditions. But they will allow a system/leader that they think is best for them, based on their education, culture, training, history, qualifications of potential options, etc.

You Left Out a Very Important Question

Is the leftist ideology that has plagued us since mid-twentieth century and has been the direct cause of so many of our problems dead, or do we still have to beat that dead horse?

Q 5

Do we arrive to a democratic Iran by supporting a US domination of Iran and the Middle East?

Democracy and modernization and a higher level of civilization can not really be forced on people and it can really only be achieved by getting people to agree with it through communication. But there is such a thing as relative options. It is not totally impossible that a war or domination could in a very long term switch to a democracy. After all, we have a sort of a civilization after so many wars. But if you think about it, even war is a form of communication (with bullets instead of words).

Q 2

Does the region belongs to the countries that occupy the area? If not why?

Agian, I believe this is not a good question. It leads to a lot of arguments but no benefits. "Ownership" and "country" are quite arbitrary things. There is no real logic behind them. So you can argue endlessly about them with hardly any benefit. If the intention is improving the region, this question does not help. It only adds to disagreements.

Q 1

Does the Iranian government, whether you like them or not, have a Right to practice their way of influence in the region?

Complicated question. But my answer is that it is not necessary to agree or disagree with that wish if we want to improve conditions in the region. In other words, it is not a good question to ask and if we were to do something positive, we should not even answer that question. It can only lead to more arguments and no real benefit. Iranian government is not a "solid mass." It has many aspects and it changes daily. We get nowhere by discussing this question.

Fair enough questions Abarmard...

But how are we supposed to answer them? You want me (or any of us) to speculate on what "the people of Iran" want?

 I can, and should, only speak for myself. It is very tempting for me to inject my own opinion as "what the Iranians want", but I leave the questions to be answered by Iranians themselves, both inside, and outside Iran.