Freedom for Iran

Dear Amil

First thing is first, you really need to establish if you are at war against islam or muslems. Also need to consider it is the people who are usually at fault not the religion itself.

you said;

" I consider Islam responsible for 1400 years of atrocities committed against my people. The litany of Islam's wrong-doings is beyond the scope of this response. Just look around you in the world and see the horrific things that Muslims are doing, not only to the people they label infidel, but to their own various sects, under the misogynist, discriminatory banner of their belief. 

If you seriously do not understand the racial comments you made here and in your past blogs, it might be a good idea to talk to a lawyer.

How can you believe in democracy and justic if your comments are too racial.

You also said;

"I learned from the Great King how to be human and honor human rights." 

well then WHY DON'T YOU HONOR MUSLEMS' RIGHT?

Have a nice day.

Dear Magen30

Thank You For Your Comment

I Have Read The Entirety Of Your Last Comment, And There Are A Couple Of Issues That I Would Like To Point Out To You:

First, If You Ask A Great Many Iranians Regarding Their Attitude Towards This "Islamic Republic", By And Large, They Would Give You This Answer: It Has Been A Big Mistake!

This Islamic Republic Has Been Like A Dark Cloud That Descended Upon Our Beloved Iran Thirty (30) Years Ago, And Has Suffocated The Liberty And Creativity Within The Hearts And Minds Of Our Beloved Brothers And Sisters In Iran! Unfortunately, During The 1979 Revolution, The Iranian People Were In Such A State Of Rush To Get Rid Of  The Shah, That They Truly Never Analayzed And Evaluated What Would Come After Him.

In America, There Is A Saying: "Be Careful Not To Fall In To The Fire, As You Are Coming Out Of The Frying Pan!" - That Is Exactly What Happened To The Iranian People .....

Finally, To Almost All Iranians, We Are Iranians First And Foremost - And Muslims, Bahai'is, Jews, Zoroastrians, Etc., Next. Our Great History And Heritage Have Firmly  Bound Us Together, And That Is Primarily Why We Are Such Nationalistic People. 

I Hope That This Has Clarified Things Further For You. If You Have Any Additional Questions, Please Don't Hesitate To Share Them With Us,

Tks Again,

PT

Your input has been very insightful....

Thanks to “Cost of Progress” & “Passing Through” & everyone else who gives input on Iranian.com. Your statements give me a lot of insight.  I really enjoy learning about the culture & people of Persia-Iran --- especially the Persia of antiquity (before the advent of Islam) but also Iran of modernity. I am a big fan of the Persian Empire era during Cyrus The Great, & Darius too. Truly those were indeed glorious days for the Persian Empire.

“IF” the majority of the Iranian people do indeed believe Islam is a negative factor in their culture, I suppose the next question is what do they intend to do about it? There is an interesting article entitled,

“Why Germans Can Never Escape Hitler's Shadow” 
(www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,345720,00.html)

 I couldn't help but wonder if the article bears any comparison to modern day Iranians who advocate for a non-Islamic Iranian nation.... can Iran escape the shadow of Islam? From a spectator viewpoint, that appears to be a great undertaking. I know it has been pointed out that Persia was not “dominated by the Arabs” as evident by the fact they still maintain their own language as opposed to speaking the Arabic language of their conquerors. Huummmm??? Again, as a spectator, I think more people who visit the country of Iran today would be more overwhelmed by the “Islamic” influences than the “language” influences. I think the Arabic wordage on the Iranian flag speaks VOLUMES! Even among your own Iranian populace, people complain that Iranians have fewer freedoms than Arabic people (iranian.com/main/blog/Farhad-Kashani/Iranians-Have-It-Far-Worse-Palestinian)

Please don't get me wrong.  I am a big fan of Persia-Iran & I hope the Iranian people do indeed get to accomplish what they have begun in their country – change, more freedoms, greater equity, & individual rights etc. Again, I suppose what I see from a spectators viewpoint is not a clear picture of how Iranians perceive their own situation. As a spectator, (one who has never visited Iran, who is not Muslim nor middle eastern nor Persian so take my opinion with a grain of salt if that much) but it appears that the conquering Arabians used Islam as a means to dominate Persia from a far.... perhaps very successfully?

Most of the people in Iran today would become very upset if anything negative were to appear in the media about Islam in Iran. However, that same group probably do not even give a second thought to the fact that their national flag bears the Arabic text as opposed to Persian text? Check any online site that provides online translation & rarely is the Persian language an option to select from. Arabic is frequently one of the options. Perhaps the domination was much more subtle & gradual than how the Arabs dominated other nations but still today, people confuse being Persian with Arab. (Remember all the back-&-forth regarding Persian Gulf versus Arabian Gulf... & that was from NG - an educated, worldly group of people - not ignorant rednecks). I understand the differences. However, I think most people would see Iranians, because of their devotion to Islam, as being very much akin to being Arab. Islam is the unifying factor among many in the middle eastern community … not language, nor ethnicity, nor culture. Isn't Islam considered a “total way of life” instruction?

I do not mean any offense to any nationality, people, religion, language etc. Most Americans have no problem at all expressing their kindred with their historical English connections. I also know many English who have no problem at all regarding their connections with the people “across-the-pond” (their American distant relatives). I know many Protestant Christians who very much love visiting the Vatican & Rome & many Catholic places.  Likewise, Christians love visiting anything Jewish because of the Jewish roots to Christianity.  So I'm not trying to make this about ethnicity or religion. 

Again, perhaps my view is clouded by the fact that I have never visited Iran, nor do I have any Islamic or Iranian or Persian or Middle-Eastern roots. Thanks again for all the feedback.... it's helping me to  learn.  

Dear Amil

Following the re-reading of your blog, and the various comments left by everyone here, I decided to write this piece last night:

Walking The Path Of Greatness – Within Reach Of All Iranians

I Hope That You And Others Would Find It Useful

Tks Again For The Blog

Dear Amir

Cyrus the Great freed an "enslaved" people and helped them go to their homeland lead a peaceful life and worship their God without harming others or forcing them to become Jews. I learned from the Great King how to be human and honor human rights. Human rights do not come with our birth certificates. People must defend this sacred right. And in my own humble way, that's exactly what I am doing. I hold Islam in violation of the sacred charter of Cyrus the Great by invading other lands, enslaving people, destroying their heritage and way of life.

I find Islam guilty of pursuing a multi-front attack, even to this day, on much of what is sacred to all civilized people. I consider Islam responsible for 1400 years of atrocities committed against my people. The litany of Islam's wrong-doings is beyond the scope of this response. Just look around you in the world and see the horrific things that Muslims are doing, not only to the people they label infidel, but to their own various sects, under the misogynist, discriminatory banner of their belief.

I have come to the realization that it is not possible for a person to be a true Muslim and live by the standards that the great king enunciated some 2500 years ago. Tolerating evil is not tolerance. It is a crime. That's why Cyrus clearly proclaimed that he would punish any official in his empire who did violate anyone's human rights anywhere in his empire.

That's what I have learned from the enlightened just king and that is why I honor the great trailblazer of our ancient Iran.

Dear Magen30

I have read your comments, and I feel compelled to share with you a couple of thoughts that you may, or may not, be aware of:

In the History Of Our Beloved Iran, there have been two (2) Great Periods which epitomized the Height And The Glory Of The Persian Empire: These periods are generally known as The First Iranshahr, which primarily took place during the Hakhamaneshi Dynasty (Cyrus And Dariush And Others); And, The Second Iranshahr, which again, primarily, took place during the Sassanian Dynasty.

The Sassanian Dynasty, towards its end, was very much weakened. It was them that lost the battles to the Arabs, and led to the invasion of Iran by the Arabs.

Having said that, there is something that you need to be fully aware of: The Strength, And The Supremacy Of The Persian Culture Over The Arab Culture Was As Such That It Did Not Allow For The Domination Of The Arabs In That Regard.

Let me explain to you what I mean: Many of the lands that the Arabs invaded, such as Egypt, etc., their native language Was Not Arabic. It became Arabic due to the Weakness Of Their Culture.

Throughout the past fourteen (14) centuries, A Great Many Persian Mathematicians, Poets, Artists, Musicians, Etc. Maintained Their Persian Roots Even Though Islam Was Part Of Their Life. It is Extremely Important For You To Understand That Islam Was Incorporated In To The Persian Culture, And Not Vice Versa. Had The Opposite Taken Place, We, Like The Rest Of The Lands That The Arabs Invaded, Would Be Speaking Arabic, And Not Farsi (Persian), As We Do Today.

I Want To Leave You With This Note: I Truly Believe In The Greatness Of The Iranian People. This is not a Delusional Thinking, but it is based on facts, and the very faith that I have in my Iranian Brothers And Sisters. I believe that one day, the greatness that has eluded us  for a number of centuries, will ultimately come back. It may not be brought about by Great Men Similar To Dariush and Kourosh (Cyrus) Of Our History Past, But By The Collective Mass Of Our Iranian People As A Whole - Through the Establishment Of A 'Secular Democracy' where the Gifts And Talents Of All Iranian People Will Be Incorporated.

I Hope That You Fully Understand What I Am Saying .. Please Let Me Know If You Have Any Additional Questions

Sincerely,

PT

You're a smart lady

Basically, you're asking - If someone kicks you in the arse, why would you turn around and hug them???

Great question. The answer? Superstition, brainwashing, fear of unknown, simple mindness.....

Unfortunately, we cannot compare the western mindset to that of old cultures such as Iran. There's an element of tradition, respect and mystic sense combined with the neagtive traits mentioned above that makes Iranians the way they are. You mention the racial/ethnic slures that Arbas have for Persians. Persians have them for Arabs too. From our beloved Ferdowsi to the ordinary guy on the street, we have sayings to mock Arabs and their culture yet we embrace their religion like there's no tomorrow.

Mind buggling...

I leave you with one (translated):

The arab is in the desert eating roaches and lizards while a dog in Isfahan is drinking ice water (LOL - I've always loved this).

Thank for your insightful comments.

________________

PUT IRAN FIRST 

________________

to Cost-of-Progress

Thank you for your feedback. “What I believe is the reason for the above is that Islam, for 14 centuries, has been so embedded in Iranain soul & culture that although deep down we resent what it has done to us, we feel guilty, scared, reluctant to denounce it all together.”

Your words seem to indeed “fit” what I have observed. It is somewhat akin to the issue of slavery in the South of the USA prior to the American Civil War (1860-1864). General Robert E. Lee of the Confederate Army (the South) recorded in his private journal the night before the beginning of the war: “We know slavery is wrong. But it is like holding a wolf; we are more afraid of what will happen when we let go.” While slavery was a “Black/Bubonic plague” to the USA – (slavery always brings destruction & death), I can actually understand “Southern Whites” of that era desiring to maintain the system because they were on the receiving end of everything (“they had it made & they were on the gravy train”!) ...... but at the horrible expense of the Black slaves “forfeiting” everything. Today, only backwards-thinking individuals desire to live in a horrible culture which condones slavery. Definitely not Blacks but neither do Whites. The “cat is out of the bag” & everyone admits that was really a culture that was on a FAST self-destruction path. We're fortunate to be rid of that system so quickly. (God Bless). However, I do not see where Persians-Iranians maintain any superior position via Islam. “IF” I have understood my friends correctly, & they have indeed given me accurate facts, Iranians are often viewed as inferiors to their Arabian victors. “3 things that nullify one's prayer: a dog, donkey & an Iranian”     (www.peymanmeli.org/Rebirth.asp)  --- I realize the statement is probably intended as a racist joke but it gives an indication of the mindset of a culture.

I learned in world history class that 2 things always occur when one nation conquers another: the defeated are compelled to accept the religion & the language of their conquerors. Historically, the transformation was often immediate but it could also be a gradual yet progressive transformation. As often pointed out, the Persians-Iranians were forced at sword-point to accept Islam 1400 years ago when their glorious Persian Empire fell to the invading Arabian Muslims. That was an immediate transformation. But there has also been a steady, gradual & progressive transformation of the Iranian language toward including more Arab words. There are fewer Iranian names than Muslim names in the Iranian nation today. Even the words on the IRI flag are Arab not Persian. Even the Koran is considered “most original in meaning” when read in Arabic. I have nothing against Arab culture, religion, language, people etc. I only point out from a spectators viewpoint, it is difficult to understand the Persian-Iranian devotion to Islam when they also speak so openly of their great resentment & disgust of the religion & many Arab traditions. I greatly appreciate your feedback & I can definitely understand how a “system” can be so entrenched in a group of people that it takes time to be rid of it. Sometimes even though change is greatly sought, it can be a difficult transition. There is an old saying, “Never complain about what you condone” ….. it goes hand-in-hand with another old saying: “Hind sight is always greater than foresight.”

Thank you again for your comments.

Amil

In regard to human rights, what have you learned from this great historic man?

NOTHING

He freed jews, as you said, BUT do you free muslems in your own mind????

NO

"tabreek" to all for this auspicious day

a benevolent king of a great dynasty of a great empire.  We all should be proud of this Parsi.

Magen30

 "On one hand I have observed modern, intelligent, loving, kind-hearted Persian-Iranian people who do not hesitate to point out how Islam has had a very negative effect over the past 1400 years in Iran. But then at the same time, they seem to cling to “traditions” that from a spectators viewpoint seem to be “code” for saying “Islamic way”. "

You have made a great observation here. One that I have mentioned time and again here and elsewhere. It is a tough and complicated subject, but one worthy of dicsusion for if we Iranians do not understand our underlying problems, we cannot begin to remedy them.

What I believe is the reason for the above is that Islam, for 14 centuries, has been so embedded in Iranain soul and culture that although deep down we resent what it has done to us, we feel guilty, scared, reluctant to denounce it all together.

When it comes to the current Regime in Iran, often you hear the excuse "This is not True Islam", or "True Islam is about Equality", and so on and so forth. BUT IT IS TRUE Islam. The fact that Islam values women less than a man in all aspects is but one of its many many short comings. The enforcement of 7th century Sharia Law as the governing principal for the law of the land is a testament how ass backward Islam is. There are many many more references I can make, but I don't want to make this a long reply.

Bottom line? Most (not all) of those in diaspora feel and behave the way you describe. A handful of us are the true secularists and agnostics that toatlly believe in the separation of Islam and Iran (which will never happen, by the way).

The case for those inside Iran is a bit more complicated because although they identify themselves as muslims, most, in fact a great majority, are peaceful, moderate folks who want to practice their religion (albeit an opressive one in nature) in peace and do not want to impose their will on others. How this plays into mixing religion and state there is a different subject beyond the scope of my humble post. Suffice it to say that it was one of the reasons we have this brutal anti nationlist regime today, but I bet you a buck that is not what the people bargained for. Funny (frown) thing is that at the age of 18, when it happened, I predicted a dire future for Iran due to the clergy's gaining power - I WAS RIGHT!

As for Koran and Cyrus, Islam and the current anti nationalist regime believes that before Islam, Iran was nothing (yes, that's their assertion) and hence they do not even acknolwledge the greatness of pre-Islamic Iran and her contribution to the world.

________________

PUT IRAN FIRST 

________________

FYI/Sassanid site bulldozed in southwestern Iran (Mehr News)

Sassanid site bulldozed in southwestern Iran

//www.payvand.com/news/09/oct/1282.html

Part of a Sassanid tepe was destroyed last week near Ahvaz, the provincial capital of Khuzestan. The destruction was carried out by the Mehrab Housing Company for construction of a high-rise apartment complex, Khuzestan Cultural Heritage Lovers Society (Taryana) announced on Monday

King of Kings

We need to let the world know that 2500 years ago (when people lived as tribes every where else), our king Cyrus The Great king of Iran had established civil society along with human rights that applied to all races and religions and even extended to animals.We, the Iranians around the world along with all other nations of the world who value human rights for all, honor your memory. Rest in peace oh great king Cyrus, king of kings. 

What Is The Islamic Version of The Name Cyrus The Great?

One elderly Japanese man who survived the WWII days described the kamikaze suicide bombers era as follows. He said that while it was horrible to live through the devastation of being bombed by the enemy they had engaged, they would have suffered a much more horrible & slow death had their nation continued on the path of practically idolizing kamikaze (suicide bomber) soldiers. He believe the Bushido-Samurai code simply did not translate into modern times. It was a code that administered incompetence & defeat to the Japanese in WWII. He described the kamikaze method as akin to “pissing in your own family well” that you drink from or “polluting your own family gene pool with incest”. I have heard a similar analogy from a German family who also survived the WWII era. While both still love their ancestral homeland & honor many of their national traditions, neither have any affection toward the ideology that brought such devastation to their nation. Both compared those days as a horrible time but they had to endure in order to rid their nation of the malignant tumor that had begun to grow within their country. No one has any affection even remotely toward a cancerous tumor nor desire the surgeon to leave any portion of the tumor left behind.

I have many Persian-Iranian friends who frequently express a lack of appreciation (really a disgust) for the historical (& especially current) Islamic presence & input into the Persian-Iranian nation. They often tell in great detail recounting the atrocities they (or a close family/friend) have personally witnessed that were “sanctioned” by words of the Koran. Not words from a religious leader or the local mosque or even words from devout Muslims within a community but words from the very text of the Koran. Then I would inquire if perhaps the text had been mis-interpreted or distorted or taken out of a time-context in order to serve a particular agenda of a modern day community? I was informed that was not the case & indeed the actions were in alignment with Koranic teachings.

On one hand I have observed modern, intelligent, loving, kind-hearted Persian-Iranian people who do not hesitate to point out how Islam has had a very negative effect over the past 1400 years in Iran. But then at the same time, they seem to cling to “traditions” that from a spectators viewpoint seem to be “code” for saying “Islamic way”.

IF, as a spectator I have heard correctly from the Iranian people that Islam has had indeed a very negative effect on the Iranian nation during the past 1400 years, I am wondering why there is any sentimental attraction at all for the agent which as wrought devastation? Perhaps my lack of having any roots in Persian-Iranian, Arab, Muslim nor any part of the Middle Eastern culture has handicapped my understanding of the situation? I would enjoy reading feedback from Iranian-Persian people from Muslim backgrounds.

I know in the Bible, Jews/Christians are taught that Cyrus The Great is called "God's anointed one". That he was indeed a very great man & the Lord God used him to accomplish God's Will (to rescue the Jews). God blessed Cyrus abundantly. Does the Koran give any commentary regarding Cyrus The Great?

Thank You For The Beautiful Reminder ...

A Truly Great Man. Let's All Of Us Proud Iranians Aspire To Walk In The Very Same Foot-Steps That This Great Man Walked.

The Greatness That Came About To Our Beloved Iran During His Reign, And The Establishment Of The First Iranshar, And The Creation Of  The Greater Iran,  Should Be A Constant Reminder To All Of Us Proud Iranians Of What Indeed We Are Truly Capabale Of.

Let's Broaden And Enlarge Our Visions, And Not Just Be Content With Mundane Political Activities. The Flame Of Greatness Within All Of Us Needs To Be Re-kindled All Over Again.

Again, Many Thanks For This Wonderful Reminder

Looking Passionately Forward To The Establishment Of The Third Iranshar

Proud to be Cyrus Iranian

Just think. 2500 years ago when the world was a patchwork of narrow-minded warring people, a man of the caliber of Cyrus the Great enunciated a standard for humanity that stands, to this day, as a lofty goal to strive for, for all of mankind.

Now, I am proud of that. I am inspired by this great son of Iran to try my level best to follow his example, in my own small ways. I am equally proud of those Iranians who work hard and long to preserve our glorious past and model Iran's future along the vision of Cyrus the Great.

payandeh bad Iran

Bahram G