Sic Semper Tyrannis

Wahid joon - you're full of golab

You have at least  five current usernames on IC (including your CIM one).  Feel free to discuss the topic (as you have been doing) with a couple of them (as  you have been doing).

BTW, how can I move to Australia and benefit from its wonderful welfare benefits?  Can you hook me up dude? Can I also declare myself a prophet?  How does that pay?  Hook me up, man!

Easy to be the 'best singer,' by excluding others from the stage

You say, "The issue has been addressed."   Have Jane Harman and AIPAC endorsed your theories or have you claimed creative license to make excuses for their public statements while withholding information concerning their prior remarks from your blog?  More importantly, have the people that have been banned and censored from this website (who are knowledgeable about the subject of separatism) had a chance to test the talking points in your blog? Clearly not.  It is astonishing that you claim the issue "has been addressed" while a handful of individuals (like yourself) are given what is tantamount to a private soapbox and bullhorn to spout-off positions like the ones in this blog while others who have sought to "address" these same issues clearly are excluded from this site.   If you feel strongly about this topic, and claim to be knowledgable about it, and feel strongly that your ideas hold up, let me arrange for you debate the people that have been banned from this site and you can test the merits of your position.  By observing your remarks, it is clear you also have another theory that more than 700 individuals that signed a petition finding fault with Israeli policy are 'agents of the government of Iran.'  If 700 people participated in a petition about Iran on another website while the same 10-15 people are repeatedly featured on Iranian.com, nothing has been "addressed."   First, you have to overcome the illusion that this site encourages free and fair participation without taking advantage of its censorship policies to publish content that cannot be challenged because others are silenced.  

The issue of foreign meddling is addressed

in section III of the blog.  So, you're preaching to the choir on that issue.  But even that is a result of IR's behavior.  

You need to actually read the blog to understand it. 

CIM has previewed a part of a forthcoming movie on the subjects

1.  It's true that Jane Harman at a conference hosted by the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) advocated for the territorial separation of Iran based upon ethnic lines.  (Harman: 'There are other groups apart from the Persians and it is a good strategy for AIPAC to separate the populations in Iran.')

2.  Also several websites, such as the "PBS/Tehran Bureau channel", are funded by the same Foundation that financially supports the 'David Horowitz Freedom Center' -- The Southern Poverty Law center calls the DHFC an "anti-Muslim hate group." The same foundation funds  the American Enterprise Institute (a Neocon group); the Center for Individual Rights (a Neocon group); and the Council on Foreign Relations, all of whom sponsor stories that they attempt to pass-off as independent journalism without disclosing their involvement in, which imperils objective journalism given the amount of resources and organization supporting that content.   

3.  Questions have also been raised about Iranian.com, which we have sought to interview the owners and operators about. Moreover, given that that the site cherry-picks who can and cannot participate, the echo-chamber of commentators that post threats, and false statements aimed at intimidating and harming others, are welcome to join Mr. Amin and Mr. Javid at the interview; CIM will have a representative present and they can test their assertions and theories in-person.  There is nothing more transparent than an interview that everyone can view and form an independent judgment on.

4.  As to the issue of sponsorship of what is termed 'separatist content' in other pages on this site, there have been some interesting articles published, primarily by individuals that left this site due to complaints that they were not permitted to freely express themselves on the subject.  

  Note-we did not format the comment in this manner.  

Jane Harman, former Congresswoman

Jane Harman said at a 2009 AIPAC Policy Conference, "An obvious, good strategy is that AIPAC wants to separate Iran."

I could only find this excerpt for now.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWpbu48H5l8

Jane Harman is currently heading the Woodrow Wilson Center in DC.

The push for breakup of Iran comes from other directions

According to respected New Yorker columnist Seymour Hersh (the reporter who first broke the Mi Lai massacre in Viet Nam), it has been the US government that has been fomenting separatist tendencies in Iran:

//www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh

Yes, this article is from 2008, but in general US Middle East policy doesn't change much from one administration to another.

And more recently it was a Democratic congresswoman Jane Herman of California who called for the breakup of Iran along ethnic lines at an AIPAC conference, then had to backtrack after NIAC raised a stink and she probably realized that pissing off the Iranian-American community is not smart politics in Los Angeles:

 //www.niacouncil.org/site/News2pageNewsArticle&id=6118&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1082

And who is this Ms. Herman? You decide for yourself:

//www.npr.org/blogs/politicaljunkie/2009/04/alleged_harmanaipac_chat.html

//www.salon.com/2009/04/20/harman/

AO, you are either barking up the wrong tree, or you are trying to create a diversion.

2050 - bottom line is

that Iran belongs to all Iranians, of all ethnicities, races and religions.  A Persian has just as much right to Kordestan as a Kurd does o Shiraz.  We have built this country together.  Example: since the re-establishment of Persian rule (or rather Iranian rule) post Arab invasion, the overwhelming majority of Iranian rulers (including Khamenei today) have been Turks.  This also includes dynasties that have transformed the Iranian culture and society: the Safavids.  Now what should a Persian do in response, break up and declare a separate "Persian" nation?

Your arguments are baseless Iran 2050

Have you ever asked yourself who are these Persians who you are condemning as oppressors? Assuming it is not Kurds, Azeris, Turkmen, Arabs and Baluchis then who is it?  Lors? (decendents of poor Ilamites), Gils? Mazandaranis? Ghashghais?  or is it just Tehranis and Isfahanis that you object to? Well Iran is a collection of different ethnicities who together have created the country? Everyone is as much a victim as the other. If you are an Iranian you will realise that we are all in this mess together and only together we can bring democracy and equality to our land. These separatist movements only play in the hand of the IRI and weaken the opposition.

I can't understand where all your generalisations come from? I am from a Bahai family and was discriminated against for a life time. There is no need for me to recount the atrocities that have gone to the Bahais, and that still goes on. Shall I condemn all Muslims for what has happened to Bahais, ignoring the fact that Iranian Muslims have had no say in any of these affair and are as much victims of the regime as Bahais? Or shall I close rank with the rest of the oppressed to bring justice to this land?

We need to look at these issues with maturity and avoid simplifications. Do you think if Kurds created their own country it would be a homogenous heaven? It won't take long before some Kurdish tribes feel oppressed by others and you see Jalalis fighting Bashukis. 

There are many foreign forces who want to see Iran broken up and are deceiving our people into thinking that separation is the solution to their problem. I hope that the Iranian people's wisdom would guide them to stay together and see the cunning nature of such advice.

Anonymous Observer,

Anonymous Observer,

Before and foremost, I’m a Fars myself, I’m not sure what do you mean by “Persians earned the right” and “Iranians helped developed the land”?

How did “Persians earn the right”? To you, when does history start? Did history of Middle East and Iranian plateau start with the migration of Persians from southern Russia to Iranian plateau 2500 years ago? A migration that resulted in the genocide of Illamites and others who used to call Iranian plateau the homeland by the way? Also, what about the contribution of others, including Illamites, to the Iranian plateau and the civilizations in it? What about Assyrians (they still exist), Kurds (who are decedents Of Medians not Persians), Babylonians (whom their land was invaded by Koroush but are partial ancestors of Iraqis today), and others?

According to what law sir Kurds need to engage in ethnic cleansing to earn their rights? Going back to my original and important questions, does anyone have the rights to hold on to a territory by oppressing and murdering other groups, who are clearly different than them and clearly do not want to be part of them (Not to say that Kurds don’t want to be part of Iran; until we have, if needed, a fair and free referendum under U.N. monitoring not now but in a free and democratic Iran one day, we simply don’t know), just because they “feel” that they “have the rights to it”? or because books written for them, by them, to promote their OWN (And not the facts) ideology says they should? Questions, how many non Fars do you think have contributed in writing school history books in Iran, pre and post IRI?

Danger level is higher

The danger of disintegeration of Iran is at highest point eve,r and if it does happen there is no way  put  the country back together in one piece. For 30+ years islamists have been attacking and continue to do so at every aspect of Iranain culture,  a glue that holds a nation together. You now have at least  one ot two generations of Iranian kids who do not know thier history (1100 years of it got vanished from the books overnight!)  their culture, their , their hero's, confused collection of youth with no strong identity like Pakistan. A generation that knows more about lady gaga than aryo barzan. Introduce war, stagnation, hunger, political,social repression and in the end there will be nothing or no one to keep things together.

I always remember what shah of Iran siad many times "There are groups that like to partition Iran but so long as I am around and imperial Iranian Army is around they will not succeed" well now both entities our gone and we are paddeling dangerous waters with incompetent sailors...........

Interesting blog, AO

And I agree, federalism can be a tricky & risky business.

2050 - your stance would only make sense in a vacuum

the bit about "if Kurds want their own country, they should have it." But we're not talking in a vacuum.  Just like there's no "romantic historical Farsi" (your words), there's no such thing as a romantic historical Kurd (or Turk, etc. for that matter).  The area that is called "Kurdestan" today has been a part of a collective called Iran.  The nation of Iran, collectively, has heleped develop that land for 2500 years.  Persians have called that area home, just like the Kurds, for the past 2500 years.  As such, they have EARNED an interest in that territory and in other parts of Iran.  In fact, if Kurds want to have that piece of real estate by themselves, they will have to go on a campaign of ethnic cleansing, which I'm sure you will disagree with, no?

Anonymous Observer, I

Anonymous Observer,

I believe that if we ever to become a civilized and modern nation, we need to ensure that the rights of ALL citizens are enforced. If Kurds wants a separate country and if they have a good case for that because they have been oppressed or discriminated against, we need to A – Ensure that they are no longer oppressed or discriminated against to take the bases of that claim out B – If we cant ensure that, than they have ALL the right in the world to declare their independence.

Does it make any sense to oppress an entire population just because some “romantic historical Farsi” heritage says that Iran needs to be united no matter what? What law is that? Law of the Farsi imperialism? That’s true for any nation. For example if Texas is not getting its fair share or the pie or if they are biased against or they are been murder because they are Texans (things happenings to Kurds and Balouchs and Bahais for 60-70 years now in Iran) they have ALL the rights to declare their independence. So what if we as Americans feel strongly about “America Unity”? Who are we to oppress others and then tell them you can’t have the right to self determinations? We ARE HUMANS JUST LIKE THEM.

If you believe in justice and equality and fairness, one wouldn’t claim that Kurdistan or Tehran or Isfahan! should be part of Iran no matter what, even if it means we murder them, discriminate against them, insult their heritage, …..

By the way, the story of keeping Iran one country for 2500 years regardless of atrocities committed to keep it united does nothing to help one country progress, and it doesn’t change the legacy of one country. Many countries which have been in existence for couple of centuries only and are doing much better than “ancient” countries like Iran or Egypt or Greece … the problem with Iranians is that they worship history and like to live in it. As result of that, Iran can never be a modern nation. Whenever we as Iranians decide to be modern, then our country will become modern. The problem with Iran is one side wants to take Iran back to 2500 years ago the other to 1400 years ago. No one talks about how to take Iran to, for example 2050 or beyond!!!

That being said, if we as country decide to ensure the rights or Kurds and others, then obviously they have no claim for independence because there are no reasons for that and the duty of a government is to keep country united, however hey can’t do that by oppressing others.

COP jan

Federalism is tricky with Iran.  While at first glance it may be a good idea, Iran may not be culturally prepared for it in the near future.  

DK- I watched your videoes

and I have to say that Fakhteh Zamani is a babe!

I think that I may have to give her a call and see what her cause is all about.  I may even find myself complled to join wahtever it is that she's advocating.  Sorry folks. :-)  

Certain people

do not like the term national identity because they believe it forces them into the general population - as it should. After all, there's only one Iran, battered and tried as she may be.

Although we have lost a lot of territory due to various reasons (Ghajaars being one of the major culprits), we are still one nation. This threat of divison is very real and mainly due to the incompetence and (non) governance policies of the islamist occupiers of our ancestral land.

To give autonomy to ethnic groups would mean an end to Iran and Persia as she's been known for thousands of years. Of course, the islamist would not mind it a bit as it would reinforce the only common thread, albeit weak, that holds these folks together: The intolerent cult known as Islam!

Could federalism be a possible answer? May be, may be not.  

Another IR separatism motivator

"Yet more common were those like the businessman in Adidas sandals and Ray-Ban sunglasses who scoffed, “The Iranian revolution was a mistake.” Or the separatist in Tabriz who has given up on Iran and wants the northwest of the country to join Azerbaijan. "

From here:

//www.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/opinion/kristof-hugs-from-iran.html?_r=2&ref=opinion

Iran 2050, who's talking about oppression?

I believe that everyone in Iran, of whatever ethnicity they are, should have equal rights.  Special rights, however, are a whole different story.  Why should, for example, Kordestan have "self rule" when other parts of the country don't?  We can all have equal rights, politically, socially, legally, economically and educationally.  That's all.  

But this piece of land has always been called Iran.  There's a reason why Iran is one of less than a handful of nations on this planet which has retained its core geographical map for that past 2500 years.  There's a sense of national identity among Iranians of all ethnicities.    

Dear Divaneh,there's a real possibility of Iran's disintegration

The IR has picked a fight with the whole world for the past 33 years.  And in return, the whole world is itching to return the favor.  I believe that for starters, Iran will certainly lose the three islands in the Persian Gulf.  Even if there's a limited military engagement in the P.G., the U.A.E. will be very happy to assist the U.S. in any way it can.  It will then seek a favor by asking the U.S. to capture the three islands for it.  The U.S. will, and will claim that it needed to do so for security of its troops.  It will then claim that it cannot simply trturn the islands to Iran because there's a legal dispute about its ownership, and will refer the matter to the World Court.  And of course, knowing IR's character, it will do nothing but a lot of "arbadeh keshi."  The UAE, in turn, will use political savvy, money and influence to win its case in court, and that will be the end of that issue.

And in the case of a wider conflict, you can rest assured that the U.S., Arab states of the Persian Gulf, Turkey, Israel, Ajarbaijan, and every other nation that the IR has pissed off in the past 33 years will do everything they can to tear various parts of Iran apart.

The IR also has a plan for disnintegration of Iran.  What do you think all this "assymetrical warfare" nonsense is about?  It means sending lunatic Basijis into mountains, gving them a bunch of RPGs and Klashnikovs and tell telling them to create a civil war.   

Ver Iz My Wote ? ...

آزادی

Related Blog:

SEPARATIST TEMPTATIONS: Don't Let It Fool You ... Treason Exists ...

You cannot oppress other

You cannot oppress other ideologies and destroy the heritage of non Farsi groups such as Turks, Arabs, Balouchs and others in the name of “national identity” or “national heritage” in a multi cultural country like Iran (This was started by Pahlavi and have continued during IRI, and if you think IRI doesn’t have Persian Imperialism in them, you’re wrong), and except minorities not too look for the right of self determination.

Look in the mirror first and see the cultural and in many cases physical atrocities done to our minorities since the rise of Pahlavi dynasty continuing till today.  That’s where the issue is. Terms such as “national identity” mean differently now in the age of globalization than in the past.

STOP LIVING IN THE PAST!

AO, Great blog

I agree with all in your blog.  IRR/IRI has assignment to destroy IRAN & IRANIANS.  I wish Iranians were aware of this enemy within & would fight against this enemy together knowing this for past 33 years.

"کردستان بعد از جمهوری اسلامی"

حزب کمونيست ايران
June 13, 2012

 کردستان بعد از جمهوری اسلامی بحثی بود که توسط   صالح گویلی  در جمع دوستداران ، اعضا و هواداران حزب کمونیست ایران و کو مه له سازمان کردستان آن  ارائه داده شد.

 این موضوع  دارای ابعاد و جنبه های  بسیار وسیعی برای گفتگو و تبادل نظراست که طبعا   قرار بر این نبود  به همه جوانب و زوایایی متنوع آن   اشاره شود.  مواردی که  موضوع بحث امشب  صالح گویلی بود،  بیشتر در رابطه با امنیت کردستان و  احتمالاتی چون  بروز  درگیریها نظامی بین احزاب سیاسی کردستان  و همچنین  نا امن شدن  جامعه کردستان  تو سط گروه ها و دستجات متعصب اسلامی  بود. 
زمینه  بروز  چنین احتمالاتی  وجود دارد. دراین بحث،  این خطر که روزی وضعیت داخلی کردستان چیزی مثل لبنان، افغانستان و عراق  بشود اشاره شد.آنچه ما هم اکنون در مورد این کشورها مشاهده میکنیم بعید نیست روزی  هم سیمای ایران در ابعاد سرتاسری ویا  کردستان با توجه به ویزه گیهای خاص خود  باشد.این وظیفه ماست که به این مسئله بپردازیم  و راه حل آن را پیدا کنیم. چنین  شرایطی را به عنوان  یک احتمال باید به رسمیت شناخت و راهکارهای لازم آن را هم باید از همین حالا بهش فکر کرد و مورد بحث و گفتگو قرار داد.
  وجود گروه های مثل صلفیها و دیگر دستجات اسلامی با توجه به عمل کرد هایشان (بمب گذاریها ی اخیر) و نوع فعالیت ها آنها از هم  اکنون مورد بحث و جای نگرانی  خیلی ها شده است. وجود این گروه ها و فعالیتها گسترده آنها     دال بر این واقعیت است که در آینده  تلاش خواهند کرد مردم را بیشتر به  رعایت سنتهای ارتجاعی و عقب مانده خود  وادار کنند. این چیزی است که هم اکنون نمونه وار می شود  به آن اشاره کرد  که چگونه با دخالت خود به مردم تذکر میدهند و  مردم را به اجرای  مسائل ایدئولوژیکی خود  وادار میکنند.  طبعا در مقابل این شرایط مردم و نیروهای آزادیخواه ساکت نخواهند  نشت . در مقابل اینها  مردم خواهند ایستاد و جواب  قلدری آنها را خواهند داد. مردم کردستان در مقاطع مختلف زیادی با حرکت های انقلابی خود راه را نشان داده اند.

//www.azadi-b.com/J/2012/06/post_548.html

This is the real fear

Dear AO, I think disintegration of Iran is what many fear and as you have stated; a very real danger. There is an irony in the comparison with Russia, as IRI is heavily influenced by Russia.

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