Sic Semper Tyrannis

AO

It is another wonderfully analytical and inquisitive blog you have come up with. i must say that your blogs are amongst the few that i ALWAYS Make sure i don't miss.

The blame that you are placing on a nations' shoulder here for being tacitly involved in atrocities committed by their respective government is simply misplaced, because if you take a closer look at the problem, you will notice that there is only a minor segment of the population-in iran we call them "seeb zamini geer" "sandis khors" you know:)- who tend to walk along those steps with the mighty and powerful army and the rest are pretty much subdued.

The attempts that were on Hitler's life that you brought up were mostly conducted by the non-civilian and military portion of the population, in other words, those who had worked with him and knew him and his habits and were privy to his psyche. It is really hard for me to imagine a regular civilian be it Japanese or German who is not sufficiently equipped with the required techniqual knowledge, to have even fathomed undertaking such a task.

Having said all that, it is rather unfortunate to witness such crimes. you would wish and hope that the nation as a united front would be able to confront the government, yet in reality what are the odds of success?

Keep'em coming Bro.

Hirre

There absolutely would have been more casualties in a ground invasion.  Just look at Germany, where hundreds of thousands were killed in the ground invasion.  And Germans weren't half as fanatic and suicidal as the Japanese of WWII.  In fact, a good chunk of German soldiers were deserting their posts (with some being executed by the SS) as the Allies were advancing.  Compare that with the "no surrender" Japanese mentality, which resulted in the death of more than 20,000 Japanese just on Iwo Jima.  Just imagine the Allies going through Tokyo--and bombarding it from the air and the sea.  

RG Jaan

I agree with you that punishment of Japanese military staff was lax.  Hell, the U.S. may have even brought the worst of the worst to America to develop chemical and biological warfare programs.  

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiro_Ishii

But I really believe in a nation's responsibility for large scale atrocities that happen in their name.  There is no possible way that the IJA could have committed such mass scale crimes against humanity without the logistical and financial support of the Japanese population, and that is not mentioning their tacit or explicit approval.  For that reason, they bear responsibility for what happened to millions of civilians by their military.   

Ari - Have you ever wondered

if the residents of WWII era Hiroshima and Nagazaki ever thought about the pain that their army was inflicting on the Chinese, the Filipinos, the Koreans, etc.?  

I bet you they didn't inquire about it, knew about it or cared to know about it.  They kept cheering on the Imperial victors.

Two questions:

1) could the Imperial Japanese Army accomplish its goals of conquest--and subsequent atrocities--without the support (logistical, financial and otherwise) of the population?  

2) are you aware of any attempts by the Japanese people to oppose the Imperial Army and its conquests?  Bear in mind: there were more than 30 attempts at Hitler's life in Germany during his 12 year reign. 

PS- you should thank your lucky star that the Japanese didn't build a nuke before the Americans did.  Otherwise, there wouldn't have been a place left called San Francisco for you to immigrate to. 

Jenaab Red Wine -e Gerami - Doost-e aziz

Thank you very much for your insightful comment.  I apologize for not responding in Farsi.  Unfortunately, I can't express myself well in Farsi (and some would say in English as well :-) ).  You are correct about today's Japanese.  I have never been to Japan, but I have had the pleasure of interacting with many Japanese.  And I find them to be intelligent, considerate people.  That being said, the Japanese culture is a peculiar one.  The Japanese, and the Germans, are unusually disciplined people, and while that can be beneficial in certain situations, such as the calmness that we noticed after the Fukushima meltdown, it could also be turned into a force of evil under the right circumstances.  Japanese and Germans can be "programmed" to march lockstep toward whatever goal a charismatic figuerhead can offer them.  And that's what we saw in WWII.  To that extent, I do blame them for the atrocities that Imperial Japan committed in China and other parts of Asia during that period.

I also believe that nations are no separable fro their governments when it comes to mass scale atrocities that cannot possibly take place from mass contributions from the population.  And, of course, the same can be said for the Unioted States and what it did it Vietnam.  The American people are just as guilty as the American administration of the period.    

(No subject)

There real reason is that

The real reason is that the US wanted to win the war fast and they most definately couldn't with an invasion force like in Europe. The only solution was to nuke the country.

Americans say more japanese people would have been killed in a regular invasion, but most likely it is the opposite, more americans would have got killed...

Waste of time.....

Very poor analysis of the historical facts, poor choice of title and other words.

Dear AO, No nation deserves to be nuked.

And the "rape of Nanking" by barbaric Japanese Imerial Army did happen for sure. So did the Mass murder of millions of Jews by Nazis, Gassing to death of Kurdish civilians by Saddam and murder of Tens of thousands of defenceless Iranian political prisoners by Khomeini.

I dare say the vast majority of Japanese killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilians who had little or nothing to do with crimes committed by Japanses army. Strangely enough AO, the same victors who Nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, executed less than a hundred Japanese army war criminals after the war. Same for Nazi war criminals. The cold war was setting in and these criminals were needed to control the rising aspirations of ordinary people for Social Justice and true democracy..

There is evidence that US used Nuke against Japan as a warning to Soviet Union towards the end of the war.  

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

A Couple of Quotes from Then

When you are attacked by a faceless enemy that you don't know much about, you assume the worst and react.

That's what happened after December 7, 1941 and after September 11, 2001.

"... December 7, 1941, a date which will live infamy, United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked..."

The late, legendary columnist Herb Caen remembered how San Franciscans reacted to the news.

"As I recall it was one of the most beautiful days in the history of this city ... warm, a warm December day, clear, and, like lemmings, everybody jumped in their cars and got together (at) Ocean Beach. And there were thousands of people standing out there at the beach looking over toward Pearl Harbor as though we could see anything. We were just drawn to the ocean, we had to go out there and look."

Former California governor Edmund G. "Pat" Brown recalled those uneasy times.

"You have to realize they bombed Pearl Harbor so we thought that there would be battleships coming over here and airplane carriers and all of our ships were destroyed over there at Pearl Harbor. And we were afraid that the next bombing would be S.F. or Los Angeles. It was a very frightening period. We weren't mobilized. We weren't ready for the war in any shape, form, or manner."

Painful read

There's  debate as to whether dropping the atom bomb on the Japanese was
necessary in order to save more lives than were lost as a result, but I have never heard any humane discussion about the topic where the word "deserve" is mentioned. You seem to have no idea how much emotional pain you are inflicting with your words here, particularly on those close to the tragedies of Nakasagi and Hiroshima.

This article is supposed to be proAmerican?????????????

I'm not too certain you made much progress in support of nuking civilians. Even with the exagerations. Why are you Sticking to defending the kkk, i mean usa?  Wonder how strange it is for a supposed Iranian to be doing this, leave that to the hells angeles, as they list why the native americans deserved to be wiped out?  Trust me when I say, no one deserves nukes, not even the USA, no one deserves harm for crimes they were powerless to prevent and did not commit.

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سلامِ ما به شما ...

ما اصولا در مسائلِ سیاسی که درین تار نمای وزین به موردِ بحث گذاشته می‌‌شوند شرکت نمی‌کنیم،دلیلش هم واضح است،بسیاری از مطالبی‌ که هم میهنانِ گرامی‌ بدان می‌‌پردازند فاقدِ منبعِ درست و مشخص است و تنها بلغوراتِ چند کلمه و سردردِ مضاعف !

اما چون به‌‌‌ جریانِ نانکینگ پرداختید و ما شما را از خودمان میدانیم،بد ندیدیم چند کلمه بدان بپردازیم ( نزدیک به ۱۷ سال ارتباطِ مستقیمِ ما با مردمِ خوب ژاپن ...،تحقیقاتِ بسیاری در موردِ فرهنگ [موسیقی‌،مردم شناسی‌] سیاست و ... به موردِ انجام رسیده است و کند و کاو همچنان ادامه دارد) .

جریانِ نانکینگ مثلِ جریانِ هلو کاست یهودیان،ارمنیان است (یا مثلِ آن می‌‌مانند که گفتند مثلا حضرت آغا محمد خانِ قاجار ۶۰،۰۰۰ نفر از مردمانِ کرمان را کشته و تپه تپه چشم درآورده،شوخی‌ نیست،هالیوود نیز در برابرِ این تاریخ نویسان بی‌ اصل و نصب کم می‌‌آورد!)،همیشه گفته می‌‌شود که خیلی‌ کشته شدند و و و و ... اما امروزه مردمان دیگر ساکت نمیشینند،برای اثباتِ این چنین اتهاماتی می‌‌بایست دلایلِ کافی‌ برای آن ارائه کرد.من درآوردی حرف زدن و گفتن از کتابهای قدیمی‌ تاریخی کپک زده کار آسانی است اما دیگر کسی‌ اینجور افراد را جدی نمیگیرد.اگر هم سفر کنید و مردمانِ کافی‌ را شناسید که چه بهتر !

اولا که هیچگاه در هیچ مدرکی‌ (اینان می‌‌نامندش مدرک !!!) موقعیتِ جغرافیائی این جریان به ثبت نرسیده است.این شاملِ عکس ها،فیلم‌ها و ... می‌‌شود.تعدادِ کشته شدگان دران نبرد (آری..نبرد... چریک‌ها و پارتیزان‌های چینی‌ آن چنان با ژاپنیها رفتار می‌‌کردند که زبان قاصر است از بیان آن همه خشونت اما آیا شما از این خبر دارید ؟  ) بحثی‌ دیگر است که می‌‌بایستی‌ آنرا تلفاتِ یک جنگِ عادی تلقی‌ کرد و نه‌ چیزِ دیگری. کمونیست مردانِ چینی‌ از این جریان بهره‌های فراوان برده ند و سال‌هاست که از این راه به تحریکاتِ تبلیغاتی-سیاسی دست می‌‌زنند.

آیا ژاپن دست به جنایت زده است ؟ جواب آری،هر کسی‌ که جنگی را آغاز کند جنایتکار است و دران شاکی‌ نیست،مانندِ آمریکا در ویتنام،آلمان در جنگِ جهانی‌ دوم و یا حتی انگلستان با آن قتل عامی بزرگ که در هندوستان مرتکب شد.

این را که گفتیم را ژاپنیها (نسلِ جوان و دنیا دیده) خودشان می‌‌داند و قطعاً شرمسارند اما به روشِ خودشان !

برای بحث و گفتگو در خدمتتان هستیم.

با سپاس از توجهِ شما.

بهاری پر نشاط و سلامتی کامل برایتان آرزومندیم.

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//www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-sU3dRdrE4