Sic Semper Tyrannis

Question for you Abaramard

What about taxes?  50% of what you pay goes to pay for the wars that you disagree with.  How do you reconcile that with your position about service in the military--which in the event of a draft--will also be a law just like paying taxes?  Can you stop paying your taxes based on your objections to the U.S. foreign policy and its military escapades?  

Fesenjoon Aziz

Who, me, worry?  Never bro.  They're just projecting, that's all.  In fact, I'm working on sending another blog their way to deal with their inner demons.  Check your email.  I'll tell you the theme.  Perhaps you can be kind enough to do another one of those wonderful cartoons for it.

:-))) 

Re: VPK only accepts self criticism "when there is a basis"

I agree accepting criticism is good. Specially if there is some truth to the "charges". So would you please tell me why some get so upset at criticism of USA. 

Hamsadeh Germai va mehrbaan

I am never bored with your intelligent and wonderful contributions on this and other blogs.  I wasn't addressing you.  In fact, I was preparing a response to you when you posted this comment.  It'll be posted shortly.

Love you, man / woman.   

ao, i was responding to your

ao, i was responding to your comment but i'll heed to your suggestion.  btw, it's your party and you can get bored if you want to :)  //www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsYJyVEUaC4

It's all about YOU

The question posed by this blog is not about the U.S., me or anyone or anything else.  It's about YOU.  You were the ones who voluntarily became U.S. citizens.  YOU were the ones who voluntarily took an oath.  YOU took on an obligation.  I asked a simple question.  In case of a draft, and a conflict with Iran, and in case you are called to fight in that conflict, would you do it?

So, what is it that has gotten you all riled up?  Is it the inner conflict?  Is it the fact that deep down inside you disagree with the U.S.?  Has this question been a wake up call?  Did it make you aware that YOU are a part of everything that you hate?  Is it the part that you now realize that YOU not only pay for the U.S. war machine that you so despise, but that you may have to actually take part in it?  How much have you paid in taxes since you moved to America?  Hundreds of thousands?  Millions?  Does it bother you to be reminded that 50% of that went to pay for the military that you so hate?

Come on, let's talk about your inner demons.  I'll be your Dr. Phil.  I promise I'll listen, and won't judge you.  So, enough with the safsateh, the name callings and the projections.  Tell me, what's down there deep in your soul that is so conflicted?  Trust me, it'll be cathartic once you release your pain. 

Fesenjoon

I have to decline your kind offer of teaching me Farsi. I am busy learning Kurdish right now and am maxed out in my free time. Here try this:

//eurotalk.com/us/promos/gtn48/kurdish?gclid=...

AO

You did not leave the qoute on my blog. You left it on Fesenjoon's blog. I am not misrepresenting; if it came across as so I apologize.

Nevertheless it is the same spirit; Iran has a giant place in my world. And why not? What should have a big place: not Felesteen and not US military. 

USA also has a big place in my world. But the military frankly has a small place and I like it that way. 

Fesenjoon

You don't get it do you? Nobody is shouting "marg bar Amrika". Last time they were shouting "marg ba roosyeh" and with very good reasons.

//thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/20/why-de...

Why don't you get out? Go to Westwood and see how many Iranians are chanting death to anything: none. Nobody is chanting anything. They do have singing and poetry if you are interestet in Sadi or Hafiz. Not to mention Rumi.

Regarding your statement:

ust do your thing, man. Ignore the dumbass comments. I usually dont
even glance at most of the ad hominem stuff posted here anyway.

You call other people "dumbass" then complain about insults? How abou we agree no insults. No one is a dumbass; or Nazi and keep it polite.

VPK, I think you're mistaken

Check your blog again.  I don't think that I left the quote that you mention in your comment on your blog.  I think I left it elsewhere on another thread. 

So, please: "represent, but don't mis-represent." :-))

VPK joon, do I have to teach u Farsi too?

Az bikh Arab boodan is a zarbol masal. I didnt say your ethnicity is Arab.

The end of Safsateh

OK.  This discussion is getting boring.  The blog is not about a history of the United States.  It asked a simple question.  Answer the question or STFU. 

I know that you never miss an opprtunity to hone your safsateh skills, but it's getting tiresom.  So, either answer the question or go away.  It's a free country.  You want to write about what the U.S. has done, be my guest.  Write a blog.

Magas, since you don't have the balls to show up by yourself

I should have expected Khaleh Niloufar holding your leash. Since you only come out from hiding under her "chador" when she shows up. 

But, who would expect anything else from an old Toudeiey like you. Never have the balls to do anything by yourselves. Always have to latch on to soomeone who is worst than you.  Look at how you Toudeh licked IR's a-hole when it came to power.  Now, you do the same for the IR in a cyber version. 

Wow- Thank you Abarmard

Never thought that you'll be the one with a straight answer. I take back most of what I have said about you in the past.  

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.  But it's refreshing to see someone actually addressing the point of the blog.

Fesenjoon

You missed my point once again.

You called me an Arab. I pointed out that it was you who was using Arabic then calling me an Arab.

I said nothing about Aryan now did I? Why do people always bash Aryans when run out of arguments? 

ao: what you don’t say in your blog

ao, you only address the naturalized citizens of the u.s. even though the regulations that you cited address u.s. nationals “whether by birth or naturalization.”  this separation is key and may even be construed as un-american.  with your logic, one can criticize any conscientious objector.  and believe me many americans criticize conscientious objectors.  i do not agree with them.  just as i accept a conscientious objector who was born here, i accept one who has such view and is also a naturalized citizen.  therefore, i find it refreshing to see that there are people like v.p.k.  let’s celebrate diversity of views.  after all, he probably agrees with 99% of your views and you’re picking a fight with him.  what gives?

ao: what you say in your blog

thanks for responding.  i still have to plead ignorance to the content of other comments on this thread as i cannot keep up with the volume.  again, i hope that i’m not redundant:

your blog concerns two separate issues: 1) the legal obligation one has when taking citizenship oath of the u.s., and 2) the antagonistic attitude of those who become naturalized toward the u.s. 

1) with regard to the legal question and your citation of cfr 8, sec. 1481 or any other cfr for that matter:  there’s always exceptions to rules by petitioning.  i can give you many anecdotal evidence of people who violated the particular cfr that you mentioned by petitioning: dual swiss-u.s. citizen becoming an n.c.o. in the switzerland national army, u.s. pilots working for the r.a.f. for extra pay after w.w.ii. as officers, …  as long as the intent is not meant as hostility toward the u.s., one can petition the state department to forego any prohibitions included in u.s. laws and regulations regarding u.s. nationals (by birth or naturalized).  the supreme ruling that i had earlier mentioned is in direct contradiction of the first 3 lines of the oath that you have included in your blog.  you did not refute that.  there are other supreme court rulings that affirm my earlier reference.  furthermore, it is the “intent” that counts.  if you have for any reason violated u.s. laws and regulations without intention of giving up your u.s. citizenship, then you can petition the state department to disregard your previous actions.  i don’t think this legal mumbo jumbo is the core of your blog though.  having worked in the government, i have regularly come across exceptions and petitions even when the word “shall” is used!

let me illustrate my babble with an example.  let’s say i go tomorrow to iran and they tell me that i have to enlist in the army.  i join the army and in the process they make me an officer.  the u.s. won’t take away my citizenship because it was not a voluntary act.  let’s say that i did voluntary became an officer in the army.  then i can make a case that in no way, i would’ve engaged in hostile actions against americans and never intended to give up my citizenship.  in a nutshell, on a legal standpoint, we’re operating in a gray zone.  but you can come up with examples that shows intent or actual hostility toward the u.s. and that’s when one gets in trouble.  but then again, remember john walker lindh was not stripped of his u.s. nationality.

2) although any u.s. citizen has a right to be critical of his government, i do find it hypocritical for those who defend the countries of the like of iran where many rights are violated and ridicule the opposition.  these people either have never lived in tyranny, are paid agents, simply have contempt for iranians, think it’s more important to bring u.s. down than bring iranians up, or combination of the above.  i have nothing but contempt for these people.

oh I apologize VPK...

for Sa'di and Hafez polluting your noble Aryan language

That explains alot

ما را بگو با کی طرفیم. زکی بابا

The congenital warrrrrrior!

Obzi said: "I even tried to enlist in the U.S. Navy a few years back, but was turned down because of a congenital heart defect" (

//iranian.com/main/blog/fesenjoon/i-am-irania... )

This bi-orzeh wants Iranian/Americans go to war and calls those who disagree with him hypocrite...., etc., KNOWING that he will not be asked to go to war ...., hehehhe! In addition to what he mentioned, he suffers from congenital brain defects, if he thinks we believe him!

Abarmard

I have disagreed with you many times but I respect your position. Good for you! Do not  let these guys intimidate you. If you don't believe in a cause you hare the right to not support it. There is nothing hypocritical about your position. It is honest and well reasoned. I am still gonna disagree with you on many issues. But I like reading an honest and no BS response. It takes courage to stand up for your beliefs. And you just did that; my hats off to you; now back to our disagreements :-)

I will fight for USA if it is attacked. If some nation sends troops to USA land I will fight to repel them. I would also serve in Afghanistan against Taliban. Because Taliban did attack USA in 911.

AO

I do have respect for Aryana and his point of view. But I formed that opinion on my own. Not because you sat on your throne and decreed so. It is not up to you to decide who have a valid point. Readers will determine that for themselves.

Dont worry AO

Just do your thing, man. Ignore the dumbass comments. I usually dont even glance at most of the ad hominem stuff posted here anyway. 31 years have passed, and the same idiots are still shouting marg bar amrika. Talk about something stupid :-)

In the end my friend, either these people will have to evolve, otherwise as Pris in Blade Runner put it: "then we're stupid and we'll all die".

No I would not

Defending a country is far different than sending troops to another place to murder and kill, mostly innocent people. Therefore NO I would never go to another country to push for unjust policies of some political figures who without being honest to their population in regards to true intentions, have forced a unnecessary war to their own and other people around the globe.

Interestingly, the war is initiated with one political party while the other might not even agree with it. Meaning for the US the war is a game for political advantage (only). You may put an irrelevant patriotic tone to it, but the reality is not hard to find.

The oath that you mentioned is for defending the country not to promote a policy with guns. Without any US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan, the US would not be any less safe.

I believe that most of the wars in the US related to Middle East should be fought by those who are pro Israeli policies, since most the origin of the wars comes from AIPAC influence in US foreign policy.

Fesenjoon

I am not in the mind of Hafiz or Saadi. But I figure they were referring to real flaws not imaginary ones.

What you are saying is not "entegad" it is slander.

By the way: You call me Arab but use more Arabic in your "Farsi" than I care to read. Try reading Kasravi and see what real Persian writing is all about. You use words such as: Maktab; Asl; Nasb; Vajeb; Inshalla; Motenaffer; then say I am Arab !! At least I try to use real Persian when I write not the abomination some try to pass as Persian. I know all about Hafiz and Saddi. Personally I prefer Ferdowsi. In fact we have Hafiz and Sadi to thank partially for turning Perisan into Farsi.

You bet

Iranian Americans are model citizens. Fesenjoon finds four instances out of millions and uses that as "proof" of how horrible we are. 

Do you know American jails are FULL of American criminals. Does that mean that Americans are horrible? Of course not! This sort of logic is false. You will NEVER get a community with no bad apples. Here are my examples fo fine Iranians:

• Cumrun Vafa: Harvard Professor: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumrun_Vafa
• Pierre Omidyar: Ebay Founder: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Omidyar
• Jamshid Delshad: Beverly Hills Mayor: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Delshad
• Anousheh Ansari: Astronaut://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anousheh_Ansari
• Christiane Amanpour: Journalist: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_Amanpour
• Rudi Bakhtiar: Journalist: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudi_Bakhtiar
• Sina Tamaddon: Apple Computers: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sina_Tamaddon
• Omid Kordestani: Google VP: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omid_Kordestani
• Andre Aghassi: Tennis Player: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Agassi

Let us face it Fesenjoon: You hate Iranians and being Iranian. You go digging to find the worst in Iranians. Then you claim that all Iranians are like that. The good news for you is that you do not need to be Iranian. Get your American citizenship. Maybe you already have; if not then get a good immigration lawyer and get it. Renounce being Iranian and never go back. Change your name to a Western name. Americans do accept others as American. Done! You will be a full fledged American.

You are free and have no need to carry your shame with you any longer. No one will blame you. But when you go spreading racism; hate and lies about Iran I will take your and your buddies to task. I will NEVER stop exposing these lies. 

I have given up on you and AO. What bothers me is that some basically good people are misled by your nonsense. That is what I am posting to expose. While Iranians from MM to Dairus to DavidET are trying to help you try to harm. 

Only Iran : Hsshhhhhhh....

Dude, don't ruin in....I was having fun!!!!!

You're a smart guy / girl, OI.  You know, knowing our people, and knowing the nature of immigrant communities, I expected the exact reaction when I wrote this blog--and I haven't  been disappointed.  As  you say, I keep pushing the envelope on their deep insecurities, and they respond as expected.

This blog is, and others like it that challenge our inner image of ourselves, are like mirrors.  You know that deep down inside they have divided loyalties, and that they compensate for it by having a larger than life image of themselves.  So, you confront them with it, and they respond by projecting that insecurity into attacking you.  Pretty interesting stuff!!!

Aside from yourself, there is only one other person who has as an opposing point of view, but didn't react as expected: Aryana (Wahid).  And that is a testament to his intelligence and his inner peace.  Plus, he doesn't live in the U.S.  The rest were pretty easy. They all responded as planned.

But now you ruined it.  Thanks... :-(( 

VPK only accepts self criticism "when there is a basis"

پس معلومه از بیخ عربی! چون در مکتب ایرانیان با اصل و نصب اصلا اینگونه نیست. بقول سعدی:

بیـزارم از آن رفیق که هردم        
زشتـی مـرا حســن  نمـایـد

حافظ را هم که می‌شناسی انشالله؟ ایشان نه تنها خودسازی را در هر حال واجب می‌دانستند، بلکه بشدت از خودبینی و خودنمایی متنفّر بودند و تا جای ممکن، از آدم‌های خودبین و خودنما انتقاد کردند:

با مدّعی مگویید اسرار عشق و مستی 
تا بی خبر بمیرد در درد خودپرستی 
در محفلی که خورشید اندر شمار ذرّه است 
خود را بزرگ دیدن، شرط ادب نباشد

وی‌پی‌کی جون، این را بدون: هر زمانی که ایرانی ها انتقادپذیر شدند، آنوقته که لیاقتشان از داشتن حاکمانی چون جمهوری اسلامی بیشتر خواهد شد. جمهوری اسلامی هم یک جانوریست لنگه خود ایرانی‌ها: اصلا تحمل انتقاد و حرف مخالف را نداره.

حالا هی بدو برو اینور و اونور داد بزن که آی مردم چرا فسنجان اینقدر مطالب «ضدایرانی» مینویسه. 

VPK says "Iranians in America are model citizens"

بله. در این مورد که شکی نیست. نمونه‌هایش را هر روز می‌بینیم. (۱) و (۲) و (۳) و (۴)

خوشا به حالتان که ۳۰ سال است در امریکا زندگی میکنید و بقول خودتان هیچ ایرانی خطاکاری تا کنون ندیدید! جل الخالق! نمونه‌های بالا هم که ایرانیان مقیم زیمبابوه هستند. یا شاید هم عوامل صهیونیسم جهانی!

Wow, this sure digressed. I

Wow, this sure digressed.

I think old AO should just enlist and head off to Fort Benning, Camp Pendleton or Parris Island.

BTW AO, you'll be able to tell us how well liked you are by the "locals" as an Iranian and muslim in the US Military. Not sayin' everyone's gonna hate you, but you will have some stories to tell, I assure you.

Whatever

Sure I'm a Nazi dunce for mentioning that the discrimination of muslim's will skyrocket after a few suicide bombing's.If you don't think so,it's just another revelation that you don't have a clue about the place you live or the people you live next to.

You must have lived a sheltered life,not seen too many ghetto's,not met any gangs,have not seen the crime rate,dont' watch the nightly news or read the papers.There is one major city that has killed off Muslims on a routine basis since long before 9-11.What I wrote is 100% the truth.

You may not be able to handle the topic of this blog but you should think about it a bit more seriously.Some Iranians may not be fighting for America or Iran,they may be fighting for themselves,

And as a American,I take this advice being to offered Americans on Iraq as an insult also.Because it means you would have preferred me to live with the enemy of Saddam Hussein while he play's his game.As if I don't have the right to fight for myself,according to YOU..well just when did you decide what is a 'just' fight and what is not a 'just' fight?

And lastly - why?