Farsinameh

Arash jaan

Sepaas for info.

cheers

Non dogmatic spirituality

Non dogmatic faith and spirituality is possible. Case in example is the Unitarian Universalist church, whose Flaming Chalice I have borrowed. 

Arash M-K

To be honest with you...

I personally was really impressed by the article & didn't notice it!now that you mentioed it,for me it is not common knowledge.Please tell us what it is?!

sepaas

Ebi jaan - Dastet Barkat Daasht

Ebi jaan, your hand was blessed to have started such a truly nice and supportive string of comments. I am honored to have your kind words.

One question: why do you think no one asked about the logo? Is it common knowledge and everyone can tell? 

Arash M-K

Arash jaan,Salaam

"Let's try and prove Ebi jaan wrong!

Arash M-K "

Ghadre zar, zarshenaas daanad !!

Can you believe it now  when I said : "you'll recieve NCE comments!"

These great people in one blog !.You're honored,since JJ has commented 2 times so far.

I really enjoyed your article!.

Keep up the good work pal!.

sepaas

Re: Souri

Souri Aziz,
Fanatisism is a method some use in their reaction to a situation. Transgressing other humans' rights are deep rooted in the forces hidden in us. We usually discuss Sacredness as it pertain to religion and politics. Perhaps, greater injustices are done in the domain of Econoly these days. The main source of these problems is deep rooted in Greed, Selfishness,and Arrogance. Unfortunately, no one is immune to them since we all poses them!

Peace;

In response to JJ

JJ Aziz,
I basically agree with your take on the implications of Sacredness and beg to differ on it's definition.

Perhaps, the major issue here is that we equate "Sacred" to "Right". In other words I do not believe in any human who believes he or his sayings are "Sacred"(Right). That is where all the hell breaks loose and wrath of one human against another one is unleashed. So is our interpretation of even those heavenly messages such as Bhudda, Moses, Mohammad, Jesus and etc. It is just our interpretation and far from absolute truth. This is where the tolerance comes into play AND "Sacredness" of human BEING. As soon as we transgress onto another human life (whether by killing, violence, torture, rape etc.) we are violating the "Sacredness" (value) of human BEING. Now true realization of this "Sacredness" in this world is only possible with exercise of "Justice".

As the peom goes:
Kindness to the sharp-toothed Wolves;
would be a total injustice to Lambs;

Now, IRI is not any exception to this rule as I am not or you are not. Transgression is only possible when we take the"Sacredness" out of our global, social or familial domain. As soon as we do not think human life is "Sacred", we then start transgressing on defenseless people and lay our wrath on them. FOr example, the human anger takes over and a poor Journalist dies in prison and the news comes our that Zahra Kazemi banged her head against a solid object and died!!!! This is only possible when the interrogator takes the "Sacredness" out of Zahra's life.
Or, consider wife beating and domestic vilence at familial level.

In the meantime, I do not believe "Everything is Sacred" as you had put it. In the world of values, sub-human values such as killing va gheireh are NOT Sacred. This is where the "Justice" comes to play. When there is talk of "Justice", it gets very intricate. This is where we (Humans) do make grave mistakes. This opens a vast discussion which is beyond my skills and this blog's capacity.

All IMHO and I'm sure there is error in it; However, this is my take TODAY.

Peace;

Thanks Arash jan

For enlightening me. I didn't even know about the word " relic" ...It's good to learn from each other thru those intelligent conversation.

Thanks a lot

Souri jaan - re you relic

Souri jaan, your dad's shaver is an important relic for you, to stay in love with him, keep his memory and his life endeavors alive.

 Relics also keep us diligent about the 'good' and 'bad', as in the heat of this desert-of-life where there can be long stretches of sign-less sand, we need relics to remind us of what is vital and worth preserving. 

Arash M-K

core values

Yes, an experienced person who has seen it all and done it all perhaps can tell 'good' from 'bad', without needing sacred values. However, 90% or more of the society still need them!      What should we tell the 90%? That it is too complicated; that they will ‘finally’ figure it out; that they should listen to their ‘inner voice’?      Meanwhile, they are bombarded by all the 'sacred' values and beliefs, wrapped in the most glorious religious or ideological regalia. Which one do you think that they will have a chance to pick? Us the liberal, agnostic, elitist crowd or the Mullah who can easily draw a picture of the SNAKE (remember the story)?

My answer is that the Mullah, the Rabbi, the Priest, the Monarchist, the Chauvinist, the Communist, etc, has a much better chance at winning all the time; unless our core humanistic and altruistic ideas are translated into a manner that is understandable by the masses. This holds especially true in cases like Iran, where information and education are suffocated by an ideological dictatorship.

I have given it my best shot in “Life Is Sacred”; any other suggestions?

Arash M-K

JJ

This is the first time, after a while :-) I do completely agree with you.

I think exactly like you in this matter with the difference that, I read the word " sacred" trough " fanatism" . what kill the humanity is not holding sacred value but is going to fanatism for that. for me some objects are sacred. when my father, my true love, passed away 18 years ago, I kept some of his personal objects for myself. One of them is his electric shaver ! This object is so sacred for me. I keep it like a jewel all the time with me. I never let anybody use it . It is kept in a safe place and sometimes I take it and look at it. I moved 4 times from country to country since 18 years, but I do hold this shaver and keep it with me all the time ! This, is written nowhere in the koran or bible, this is something personal, derived from love and respect I have for someoen very dear and special to me. 

But if we go through fanatism, to preserve some values which have been imposed to  us by either the religion, family, society or esle, that's absolutly inadmissbile and I do agree with you toatly, then.

In response to

In response to "LostIdentity": How do you measure what is sacred and what is not? What happens to those who disagree with what you and your religion consider sacred?

If you believe the Bible or the Koran or... are sacred, what happens to those who disagree and believe in something else?

Another way of looking at "Nothing is Sacred" is EVERYTHING is sacred, not just your belief, not just your people, race or religion, but ALL of existence is sacred. That I can live with.

But to say only certain things are sacred and only I or my priest or my rabbi or my ayatollah or my guru can judge what is sacred or not... then I have a problem.

Look at India. There are thousands of creeds. Many there think cows are sacred. Some think all living things are sacred. Some worship women. You have sun worshippers too ...

A personal belief in something sacred does not hurt anyone. But when you try to impose these "sacred" beliefs on others and act as if you are god's representative on earth, then you are going to make life miserable for everyone who disagrees.

So back to my original questions: How do you measure what is sacred and what is not? What happens to those who disagree?

And most relevant of all, what do you do with an Islamic Republic that considers itself sacred and infallible. Don't question Khamenei, because he's sacred?! Don't question velayate faghih because ayatollahs are sacred?! Don't question Islam because the Koran is sacred?! Lanat beh hamashoon!

Sacred schmacred! Come down to earth. Smell the flowers. Use common sense

"Nothing is sacred" has a very negative connotation

This motto gives people reason to cause corruption on earth. Every corruption on eart is raised based on this very motto of "Nothing is sacred". You do not believe me? Just go to the bottom of every evil action in history (whether it is don in the name of Evil or in the name of religion) and you will see that it is rooted in violating the sacredness (value) of human being.

Re: Sacred?......WHY NOT?

JJ Aziz,
I had criticised your Motto in Faryam's blog "MAD IN IRAN..." but did not get published.

The point is that whether you like it or not: If you are a living mankind, you do have a belief an dthat is your religion even if you are Atheist.

As a wiseman has said: Truly, The human life, is a belief and stiving for it.

Sacredness gives us the human identity. If human life is not SACRED, then it gives a reason to peaople to hurt one another and the self. Examples are vast such as Oppression, Genocide, Massacre, Rape, Corruption, Addiction, Torture, Incest, Child-molestation ......

Sacredness is the corner stone of human society, and family. Even the Bill-of-rights is based on sacredness.

Hope this makes sense.

Peace;

after reading JJ's comment

after reading JJ's comment I am faced with a question: can't we hold positive and humane values sacred without believing in those texts or beliefs?

Would the word "sacred" just not apply in those cases? what if being a good person and having compassion for others and valuing everyone's lifes is our strongest belief and has nothing to do with the religious books, would the concept of "sacred" not describe that belief?

IRANdokht

Sacred?

My problem with "sacred" is that people hold them as god-given ultimate truths. It becomes a religion. It becomes untouchable, unquestionable, and ultimately unreasonable. It becomes the source of holy and unholy wars.

And when you have a government, like the one in Iran, where every crime, every act of repression, every stupid policy is justified by a "scared" text or belief, then we have a real problem.

Everything people consider "sacred" is a figment of their imagination. We THINK they are scared. When you put these beliefs under the scrutiny with facts and rational thought, they never hold up.

Does that mean I don't believe in love, life, beauty, compassion, wonder, mystery... I absolutely do.

People do not need to attach things to god and religion to have a good, productive life. We are all born with a conscience. We instinctively know if we are doing something right or wrong. Just be a good person.

You don't need the Bible, the Koran or Avesta or any kind of "scared" text to guide you. You can LEARN a lot from great thinkers (including prophets) but to assume they have a monopoly on wisdom and truth is the biggest falsehood of all.

Makes no sense

definition of "scared"

–adjective
1. devoted or dedicated to a deity or to some religious purpose; consecrated.
2. entitled to veneration or religious respect by association with divinity or divine things; holy.
3. pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to secular or profane ): sacred music; sacred books.
4. reverently dedicated to some person, purpose, or object: a morning hour sacred to study.
5. regarded with reverence: the sacred memory of a dead hero.
6. secured against violation, infringement, etc., as by reverence or sense of right: sacred oaths; sacred rights.
7. properly immune from violence, interference, etc., as a person or office.

I wish

I could understand what you guys are talking about ... :-( I wish I could be as smart as you all - I mean that :-(  Oh well – such as life…. I just make it easy on me and only have one way of doing things – "do the right thng" then there is nothing to be confused about and nothing to discuss – boring hu? Oh well such as life

Ebi jaan - JJ is out dining

Ebi jaan , JJ should be out dining, that is the only way for the AnoniMouse attacks not to have started. It is just piling up till 'the man' comes and opens the flood gates! 

Thanks for the nice poem. 

Arash M-K

Arash jaan

You see,I was right !.All NICE comments !.

Cheraa fekre bad mikoni aziz!.

Shab deraazo,Ghalandar bidaar!!.

Loved the last paragraph.

GOOD LUCK !!

هر کجا
 اراده ی سترگ
 تند باد حادثه را
 می گیرد به هیچ
 و سری را
 سودای عشق را
 می آزماید
 تا دم تیغ
 من
 صدای تیر آرش را
به شب می شنوم
 که می رود بر بال باد
 ....تا سراپرده ی نور

Arash jan

Lets hope they were right! :0) 

IRANdokht

IranDokht jaan - thanks

You are right about humanity and love of life going together; but as a species, we are a mix of the affectionate instincts and the destructive ones. Ancient beliefs (e.g. Zoroastrianism) thought that the 'good part' in us was just a bit more than the bad part; hence, predicted the eventual victory of gods over demons, life over death and good over bad. I guess we just have to wait and see ;-) 

Arash M-K

Nicely said

Thank you Arash jan

Personally, I believe that although human is not sacred, what we call humanity is. Maybe due to the fact that humanity considers life to be sacred...  I am not good at philosophizing but as I was reading your blog, I noticed that I consider the act of humanity to rank very high, higher than religions and higher than patriotism.    

I enjoyed reading your thoughts. Thanks.

IRANdokht

Jaleh jaan

What George does to Lennie is not so dissimilar to abortion. He is worried and afraid for his friend, as what the cruel world can do to him; like many desperate mothers are frightened too.

Thanks for your nice comment. Let's try and prove Ebi jaan wrong!

Arash M-K

Ebi jaan, you too? :-)

با دیگران خوری می و با ما `تلو تلو `

قربون هر چی‌ بچهٔ خوب و سرش بشو

باور نداشتم که به این زودی‌ ای رفیق

در زیر دست و پای حریفان شوی ولو

طنز از شهریار 

So ironic Arash!

Just before I read your article, I was discussing with my daughter a paper she had written for her 9th grade English class. They were supposed to write a critical essay about John Steinbeck's novel "Of Mice and Men." We disagreed on if the way the author ended the book was morally justified or not. While I had assumed that everyone would find the way Steinbeck ended the novel as justifiable, she argued the case against George's decision to kill Lennie.

I was astonished on her young deliberate arguments, legal arguments over deliberate killing vs. innocent accident, emotional arguments, matters of betrayal of a trust with which your life is put in the hand of another, and the sanctity of life because "certain dreams never got a chance to actualize" by ending of life, which is final and irriversible...

Shrotly after that, I was reading your article and agreeing with every paragraph as I was going on...in my mind quickly arguing what I find sacred and I was thinking maybe "search for truth,"  and BANG!

I got to your last paragraph about snactity of life :-)

You know, I normally dislike the term "sanctity of life" becasue it reminds me of anti-abortion "pro-life" right wing Americans. The type who find sanctity in an unwanted "tissue" of women's body, yet have no regards for the lives of millions killed in their name in other parts of the world. But, having two good arguments in a short time, fixed me good :-)

Thanks for a nice article.

I like adding "Fact" in addition to "Life" as sacred.

Then we have a powerful combination.

enjoyed your blog.

Arash jaan

cheers !

I'm sure you'll recieve a lot of NICE comments !!.

Good Luck