You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus!

salman farsi

I understand your mindset and your view.

Ms Azad and Raul

Ms Azad

First of all you seem to be repeating part of what I said in my reply to Raoul. Yes Turkey and Indonesia are both secular democracies with Islam as their dominant religion. Malaysia which is a semi-demcratic monarchy has Islam as its state religion. I am not denying these facts but at the same time I am not suggesting that these are the models to be followed by Iran. The Iranian issue is more complex and deeper rooted than all these countries. All I am saying is that it can be achieved.

As for Sharia law and the womem's right, you are viewing it through Western influenced glasses and so suggest that women's rights cannot be preserved. In Islamic right the rights of men and women are not eqaul but they are equivalent. Besides these right can be subject of change depending on the public's vote.

And please instead of coming up with unsupported statistics let the people decide whethere they are fed up with Islam or if they want to see a democratic type of it to replace the current evil regime.

Raoul

I can cite many similar unjust sentences passed in the so called western democracies , does it mean that these countriea are undemcratic? I don't think so. The same Khlawat law was passed democratically by the Indonsian parliament. If you don't like you can get your member of parliament vote against it. This is called democracy my friend.

 For an Islmic democracy

salman farsi

Here is an example of what happens to an unmarried man and woman living together in Malaysia under your islamic democracy:

//thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2011/4/29/nation/8571667&sec=nation

You can google and find many more examples...

Salman Farsi

Both Indonesia and Turkey are secular democracies.The populations are Muslim, but the State is not Islamic. These countries are not Islamic democracies.

There is no need to mix Islam with democracy in order to please a small backward segment of the population (fundamentalists are less than 15%). In a secular State, the rights of all religious groups, whether they are majority or minorities, will be respected.

You seem to have overlooked the existence of a women's movement all over Iran who demand legal equality with men (which Sharia Law does not guarantee) as well as students and youth movements that are fed-up with all things Islamic. Changes will be made by dynamic and progressive groups, such as women and students and the youth, not by the silent and conformist majority who whine only privately. The majority in the above movements do not want an Islamic democracy, but a secular one.

The future system of State and Constitution in Iran ought to be decided by the majority of population through a universal referendum (with secret ballots) will determine what type of government and constitution the Iranian society chooses.

Cheers,

Azadeh

Raoul1955

There are a number of countries that have nearly (and I emphasize on nearly) achieved a democratic governance with Islam being either their state religion or the dominant religion of their state. Examples are Malaysia (state religion), Indonesian (secular) and Turkey (secular). These are all Islamic states. Egypt is now joining the democratization process and may soon be another good example.

We Iranians (particularly those of us who have been in exile in the last thirty years) want a perfect democracy put on a plate before us ready for consumption without going through any struggle. We made the first mistake thirty two years ago by replacing one dictatorship with another without a democratization process which placed us in the current mess. Now can you name one country that has landed in perfect democracy without going through turbulance and radical changes? No democratic regime in Iran can survive by ignoring the dominant faith of the country for the last thousand years if not more. Those of us who advocate a return to the faith our ancestors of 1400 years back are escaping the truth and living in a fantasy land that does nto exists. Any future regime that has a claim on democracy must respect Islamic values held by the dominant muslim population of Iran.

 For an Islamic democracy

salman farsi

Could you give us an example of a society that is currently governed under 'an Islamic democracy?'
Well, one that is currently in existence.  :-)  Otherwise one may think that such exists in your mind, or that you have no understanding of islam.

Ayatollah Raoul

Azadeh: You need to study Hafez, Attar and Rumi in depth

Clearly you have not studied the works of these three masters in great depth otherwise you would have known that sufi and sufism are treated very differently by each of them. In works of Hafez, sufi has a very negative image and is treated as a complete opposite to "darvish" ,whereas, Attar, though equally cirtical of the sufi. gives them the benefit of the doubt. Rumi, on the other hand, treats the sufis much more leniently and uses them as people who are trying to reach the truth though from time to time admits that they can be unfaithful to their cause.

In general sufis in our esoteric poetry are treated like a cult-like group of mystics who are more obsessed with the pretentious rituals and less with the purpose.

 For an Islamic democray

..........

Rumi, Hafez, Attar, and Saadi were Sufis!

This is Rumi's poem:

I searched for God among the Christians and on the Cross and therein I found Him not.
I went into the ancient temples of idolatry; no trace of Him was there.
I entered the mountain cave of Hira and then went as far as Qandhar but God I found not.
With set purpose I fared to the summit of Mount Caucasus and found there only 'anqa's habitation.
Then I directed my search to the Kaaba, the resort of old and young; God was not there even.
Turning to philosophy I inquired about him from ibn Sina but found Him not within his range.
I fared then to the scene of the Prophet's experience of a great divine manifestation only a "two bow-lengths' distance from him" but God was not there even in that exalted court.
Finally, I looked into my own heart and there I saw Him; He was nowhere else.

***************

Apparently he was a Sufi!

ExtraTerestrial Fake %'s

Even ET's have learnt from the earthies to easily forge figures to rule their nations! They, however, just do not know that the word Infidel is non-existant in Quran! That is the self invented translation by the hostile Westies of the word "Kafer."

If Ayatollah Rauol knows how wonderful Islam is, then let's be it. The "message" is what matters. Ibrahim, Noah, Moses, Isaq, Jacob, Jesus, & Mohammed among many others carried the same "message."

Sufism is as valid as Sunni, Shia, Vahabi, Akhoond, Bahai & etc. None are recognized by Quran. GOD's religion is both "one" & "pure."  His prophet in Islam was none of them.

Quran does not need anybody's defense as it is self-defensive. If the bedouin Arabs of 1500 years ago understood that then something is seriously wrong with our times.

Nice Drawing

Azadeh.  Now I have to look up Sufism.   :-)

Demo: Yes, we know how wonderful islam is.  I suggest you use the life of its founder Muhammad [spelling variations inclusive.]    Just write how loving, caring, and kind he was.  Muhammad spent his life travelling around preaching love and kindness.  He built schools for girls at a time when women had minimal rights.  Muhammad also encouraged men to turn the other cheek when someone slapped one.  I am certain you can write more about Muhammad's kindness and loving heart.

allah-akbar to you,
Ayatollah Raoul.

You are dead wrong Demo!

Quran focuses more on extremism and violence:

52.7%  is hatred aimed at infidels, defined as 

*Threats towards infidels either in the after life or this life

*Degrading infidels by calling them evil, stupid, blind, deaf, liars, thankless, etc.
*Calls to fight against them.
*Verses that say "except the believers" when wishing death on nonbelievers were counted as hatred since avoiding death is not a positive to believers
*The threat or insult can be aimed at infidels in general or any specific infidel.

24.9% Deals with believers, defined as
*Mentioning them
*Saying they are righteous
*Saying they will get good things
*Any mentions of one of the prophets was snuck into this category too

11.4% deal with Allah
*Who he is
*That he is almighty
*Any of his creations

5% deal with the Day of Doom or the Day of Judgment
*Either the Day of Doom when destruction is sent on the earth or
*Day of Judgment when all are judged before Allah
*Any message pertaining to how God records what men do was assigned this category 

2% anti-woman
*That it’s OK to beat a woman
*Women and slaves get married off but have no choice in the matter and is very self-serving to Muhammad or men in general.

2% deal with giving to the poor in some way 

1% deal with some kind of Muslim custom or etiquette, for instance *How to divorce your wife
0.5% disapproves of a man who murdered someone, but only because it was for the wrong reason to kill someone. 

0.5% actually says it is OK for people to have their religion while Muslims have theirs 

Both wrong

صوفیان و متشرعان (طریقت و شریعت) هردو به تاریک اندیشی و قهقرا می انجامند. شریعت اسلام با وحشت و مرگ فروشی و طریقت صوفیان با لبخند و فریب. اگر هنوز بعد از قرنها در پی ادامه این دعوا هستید وقت خود را تلف می کنید. 

Dead Wrong! Lady!

"And among his signs is this, that he created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and he has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are signs for those
who reflect." (Quran, Section 30, Verse 21)

The Arabic words of "Hob" (Liking, Love) & "Mavedah (Divine Love)" have been repeated in many verses of Quran, including the one above. Be my guest to do your own research on the below Quranic site on both words before showing your usual extreme (both verbal & graphical, of course) hatred toward Islam:

//www.parsquran.com/

PS: Rumi, Hafez & Attar were all Muslims & all three knew Quran by heart! The name "Hafez" as you know well comes from the one who had memorized the book in its entirety! Then, "Bow-row & In Dum bar Morgh Degar Neh!"