Iran without Islam

VPK

I wrote a response to your comment. However, I decided to post it as a separate blog. I beg your pardon, and understanding.

In other words

All of this is a reaction. If Islamists had not overreached. If they did not try to impose their point of view on the rest of us. There would not be such hate directed towards them. Now they woke up the sleeping giant.

They will have to deal with it. 

Home Sacer

You make some very good points. However you miss one thing. All you say about what we are is legitimate. I have said the same many times. We used to be all of that while we had a choice. We use to. But then something happened. One day Islam came and we were forced to be Muslim or else. No longer had a choice. Islam or slavery. We survived through sheer force of will. Then some 90 years ago Reza Shah came and there was freedom of religion again.

Once again we could be what we wanted to be. But Islam waited and bided its time. Then in 1979 hell struck again. Now what you see is the reaction to all of that. Pent up anger of 1400 years is surfacing. It is fair? No probably not. But what happens and is happening now begets anger and a response.

فسانه گشت و کهن شد حدیث اسکندر، سخن نو آار که نو را تلاوتیست دگر

Sassan,

You should have learned in your previous incarnations on this site that any attempt to prevail in a debate through name-calling only exposes the limits of your civility, let alone your intellect.

You ask, “Are we Jews? Are we Arabs? What are we?” Well, it may come to you as a surprise, but the sooner you know the answer, the better. We are Zoroastrian. We are Jewish. We are Christian. We are Muslim. We are Baha’i. We are also agnostic and atheist. Some of us are Jews. Some of us are Arab. Some are Turk. Some are Baluch. And, some of us have other ethnicities. We are all Iranians.

For a nation that has been invaded and occupied a dozen times in its long history, has been kidnapped, enslaved and fertilized by others; and, has conquered many other nations, kidnapped, enslaved and fertilized many other nationalities, the assumption of an exclusive ethnical identity is as bogus, as that of those of people who claim they belong to a super-race, or are the chosen ones.

I doubt that any of us – with the possible exception of some Zoroastrians and Jews – can prove that he or she is the progeny of someone who lived in Iran, at the time of Cyrus the Great. What makes us Iranian is not a genetic blueprint, but our belief in a shared history, culture and language.

So do me favor, next time you miss your fantastic forebears, cry on somebody else’s shoulder.

Sassan

Well said my friend. I could not have said it better myself. We need to embrace our identity. We are Iranians. Our religion is Zartoshti not some hodge podge created by Arabs. Plus one traitor: Salamane Farsi.

VPK

Dear Rea,

Sweet dreams.

I appreciate your comments.

Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Shakalaka, boom boom

Love your writings. Even if erratic at times. ;o)

Late here, nite.

Rea,

Life is one big conspiracy -- haven't you heard about the birds and the bees?

Formerly Boomerang

Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Homo,

You're trying to make this political as all you anti-Israel groupies are wonton to do, almost always. I don't mean to say that we own the Arabs, rather, I'm trying to say that this Islam business is just that, a business, and not the word of God. It was written by a bunch of Jews so as to stem the tide of Christianity, period.

Islam doesn't belong to us, that's my whole point. It belongs to those who invaded Iran, the Arabs. We, as heirs of Cyrus the Great, have bigger fish to fry, as in getting Iran back on the track of first-rate nations.

Ramadan is an Arab festival, it's a sham, it's a Jewish practice, it has roots in Judaism. Are we Jews? Are we Arabs? What are we? I like to think we're the heirs of a remarkable civilization that was founded by Cyrus the Great. Those of you who want to turn us into something else, that's where we have problems.

Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Boomerang

Is this another conspiracy theory? Started 2000 yrs ago, still unfolding?

Speaking of Hollywood...

In William Wyler’s “How to steal a million”, Nicole Bonnet (played by Audrey Hepburn) hires a burglar, Simon Dermott (Peter O’Toole) to steal a copy of a long-lost masterpiece, the Cellini Venus sculpture (forged by her grandfather), from a Paris museum. In this movie, boomerang has a significant – and symbolic - role. In one scene, Nicole famously asserts herself, “You don't think I'd steal something that didn't belong to me?”

(Our friend, Monsieur Kadivar - the immortal guard, currently gargling the water of the River Seine - will kindly provide a video clip - per request  -whenever he can take a break from reading Bernard Lewis, the godfather of neocons.)

So, what’s your point in this post, Sassan (as in the Sassanids)? Are you telling us that Jews and Persians (you read, Israelis and Iranians) own Arabs? And, if they were to join together, they’d steal something that belongs to them?

Damn Satellites!

I'll take your word for it, Dear Free/Islam. How much truth in the story, we shall never really know, I guess. But I'm sure as humans, we'll always try to get to the bottom of the well and scoop up all that wisdom.

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

BOOMERANG

به خاطر پارازیت دیگه ماهواره کار نمیکنه. ولی داستان بخارا واقعی هستش.

So, everybody plotted against everybody, back and forth

Or is it just the Jews ?

Interesting, funny story, FREE vs. ISLAM

Is this the same well where the hidden Imam has been hiding for 1,000 years? Can you get cable reception down there? 

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Afshin,

I did not such thing, I didn't single out any one religion, I lumped together all 3 Abrahamic religions, in fact. They all had the same producer, if you will. The same production company, the Jewery, but instead of entertainment, they offered salvation at a small price, 10% religious tax.

I'm just telling you how it is, now you can try to twist my words all day long.

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

VPK,

"The problem is the environment. The real probem in the environment is: Islam. We prosper when we leave it; suffer when we embrace it."

Perfectly put, dear VPK!

Really perfect!

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Well...

In the past Jews did have cultural and religious influence within Islam. In the present their influence is just the Greenback!

Boomerang Aziz:Some correction if you don’t mind

1)      Yes Arabs and Jews are cousins and that’s that fact.

2)      If you see similarity of words in Arabic and Hebrew is because they are two branches of Aramaic and third one is Assyrian language which is spoken in North West of Iran and these are ancient Assyrian who lived in said area from last 7000 years and they Christian and once they were called Assyrian empire. Also Assyrian is originally from today’s Iraq and also Assyrian live in Syria and Russia and Turkey and Georgia and other countries.

3)      Quran was written by two philosophers and not three merchants and one was stoned to death in same well that people throwing stone in same well in Saudi Arabia at this moment. In mohammad time so many people were challenging him and they were claiming they are the messenger of the god, these philosophers suggested to mohammad that he should suggest to oppositions that tonight we all bring the rope and throw it in this well and If anyone gets the holly book from god he will be the prophet and everyone agreed because of public was witnessing the Mohammad’s claim. And the same night one of the writers name was BOKHAR   goes in the well and hides there and prior to that he tells mohammad ties something as a sign on the rope and he will tie the book to your rope and everyone that night came out and put their rope in the well and came out empty and once Mohammad’s rope goes in well and BOKHARA ties the book to his rope and he pulls out the book and he says whoever believes in me and the god throw the stone in that well because now because satin is there because holly book is out. This is very long storey and not many people know about it and quite hidden and well secreted history and I was surprised to see your storey. 4)      About astronomy and math comes I must again bring the other nation who were first in math and astronomy which were Assyrian and Babylonian and kaleanian and  you don’t have to believe me go and find out about.5)      Arab has not contributed so much to this world and Islam to be part of that.         

Your racist vitriolic tirade

Your racist vitriolic tirade is offensive.  Religion is itself the root of evil.  You can't single out one religion (in this case judaism) and blame it for all of society's ills.

Faryam

Please do not try so hard to be "Politically Correct". Islam does not deserve any credit for the Great Civilization. It was all from Persia. 

• Astrology and Astronomy: was widely practiced by Iranians long before Islam.
• Universities: The Sassanids had build centers of learning like Gondeshapur long before Islam.
• Algebra: Kharazmi an Iranian.
• Medicind: Avisina an Iranian.
• Poetry: I won't bother naming them; any Iranian knows them.
• Architecture: the arch of Khosrow; Persepolis and so many others.
• Arts: The masterpeiace "Bahare Khosrow" long before Islam.
• Roads: From days of Hakhamaneshis.
• Administrations:Well known Arabs learned that from Persians.

The list is endless. I don't understand why you feel like you owe praises to Islam. I know I don't.

Boomerang Jan

I agree with your brilliand analysis almost totallly and 100% here.

I have been saying that the "Islamic" Golden Age was what remained of the Sassanids. If we have been left alone that Golden Age would be the Sassanid. Idiot and ignorant Western researches put all "Muslims" together. 

Without Islam Iran would be much better off and more advanced. Just look at Iranians when then are free of Islam.

• Iran before Islam was imposed on us. One of the most advanced nations in the world.
• Iran before 1979. We were getting there and rapidly catching up from years of neglect.
• Parsis of India. Basically Iranians who left to escape Islam. One of the highest acheiving people in India.
• Iranians in the West and USA. A very accomplished and well to do group.

This proves there is nothing wrong with us. The problem is the environment. The real probem in the environment is: Islam. We prosper when we leave it; suffer when we embrace it.

Any person using the a little bit of their mind could tell: Islam is hurting us. Now are people smart enough to dump it!

And Rosie,

The "tub of goo" has been nice to me lately, so back off, pretty please!

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Yes, dear Rosie,

Those are 3 adorable penguins.

How did you ever guess?

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Dear Faryarm,

"a bunch of Jewish merchants living in Prophet Muhammad's time made up the Quran and managed to create what was to become a major civilization."

Actually, dear Faryarm, it wasn't the Jewish merchants who managed to create a major civilization, but rather, the Persians. The greater bulk of Islamic science in Islam's golden age comes from Iran (and some Syric), but not the Arabs or the Jews. Algebra, astronomy, the medical sciences, physics, and much more, all had their origins in Iran. It's sickening that people think Algebra, for example, was invented by the Arabs. Kharazmi was Iranian as was Avicenna (Ibn Sina), for example.

You don't have to take my word for it, do your own research. The Quran was written by 3 Jews and one of us, Salman Farsi, the most wretched traitor to the Persian culture. Ask yourself, why is Islam so strikingly similar, in so many critical ways, to Judaism? What was Christianity's role in all of this? Was it not spreading like a wild fire in the four hundred years after Christ's death, and was this not a threat to the Jewish orthodoxy (and their ability to collect religious taxes) in what is known today as the Middle-East? Muhamad's own wife was a rich Jewish merchant. The Jews and Arabs were living together in those times in Mecca and Medina. The Jews were known as the people of the Book, who better to write a new chapter? 

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

Let my imagination run wild...

//iranian.com/main/blog/darius-kadivar/history-forum-jews-persian-empire-lecture-dr-david-neiman 

You see professor David Nieman does not let up emphasizing the importance of free movement of goods and trades for the Jews. He said what was good about Cyrus's time was the fact that a huge swath of land was under one administration and the roads were secure.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lewis 

Now Bernard Lewis says that the Sassanid Empire had blocked all the roads to trade and commerce to the Romans and others. This caused the Romans to look for alternative routes to get to India and China and that's how they came into contact with the Arabs. The Arabs then started trading with the Romans and it is even suggested that Mohammad's wife who was a successful trader was a Christian. I guess the Jews must have been annoyed by that commercial blockage as well. So how did the Jews regard the Islamic Conquest of Persia as far as their commerce was concerned? I know they loved world trade and the fact that it made them rich.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_prediction_in_Sura_al-Rum

I would conjecture that there was a tacit approval on the part of Jews to see the Sassanians crumble particularly given the fact that the Sassanians failed to overpower the Romans completely despite some promising early gains in early 600s A.D.

No, wait.

There's something to it, at least in terms of the synthesis of the different Abrahamic religions. Please continue spinning your goyische tales, Baby Boomer. But first I have to ask you an important question:

Penguins? Are those penguins?

I can't find my glasses.

Dear Boomerang

Honestly, and i mean truly...

I will accept your argument only as fodder /entertainment at some fashionable Persian dinner party chit chat, where people who think they are direct descendants of Dariush and Cyrus with little knowledge of history or religion choose to join the bandwagon of Islam bashing..

Seriously, in your opinion then, a bunch of Jewish merchants living in Prophet Muhammad's time made up the Quran and managed to create what was to become a major civilization, leading to major advancements in Astrology, Mathemetics, architecture, medicine and so on...then being widely recognised for brining Europe out of the dark ages, and the resulting renaissance?     All in a period which jews themselves became increasingly persecuted, downtrodden and scattered throughout the world.

Be Fair.. 

regards

faryarm 

Faryam,

"I believe Iran in the late 19th century was again the beneficiary of a new revelation, for a new era."

Faryam, you must be a Bahai, that's okay. That's actually good, because it will help me show you what I mean by "clever Christ-hating Jews." Christ literally means the "annointed one," and the Christians literally believe that Jesus is God's son on Earth and the Messiah. But the Jews, as they penned the Quran, clever creatures that they are, accepted Christ's existence, but only as a prophet, not as the son of God, and that's because they rejected (hated) the idea of Jesus as the son of God. And this idea of Jesus as the son of God is THE central theme of Christianity. Not accepting this central aspect of Christianity is akin to rejecting its main thrust. 

This partial acceptance of Jesus by the Quran-writing Jews is identical when describing how the Muslims view Jesus today, as a prophet, not as the son of God. It's amazing how much the Jews and the Muslims have in common, even here, in rejecting Christ as a Messiah. Now, as far as you being a Bahai and that serving my purpose to illustrate my point, i.e., hatred of Christians and fear of its popularity leading to the invention of Islam (a new chapter of Judaism), here it goes... 

Bahais and Christians have a lot in common. Christianity (and Christ) were a challenge to traditional Judaism as Bahais (and Bab) are a challenge to traditional shiite Islam. Both challengers were hated by the orthodoxy -- the Bahais are persecuted to this day in Iran as the Christians were persecuted by the orthodoxy of Judaism during the early centuries, including the execution of Christ (delivered by the Jews to the Romans). So, finally, the unavoidable rise of Christianity led to the creation of the Quran, as the Christ-hating Jews --hatred for the idea of "Christ," the annointed one -- take a sip of poison and recognize Jesus, but only as a prophet, not the Son of God. This was done so as to take on converts from Christianity.

What can I say, the Jews are a bunch of cleversteins.  

 Iran is a prisoner of IRI

i know.

i just thought it was a funny joke. Anything I can do to help, get it?

Actually I knew that you're just in an anti-JUDAISM mood to celebrate Ramadan. Just like you're not anti-Muslim, just anti-Islam. (Of which many are Semitic anyway...). It was just the part about Hollywood that galled me a little. But that's the one you picked out. How'd ya know?

lol

ps I keep thinking about 'tub of goo' and I can't stop laughing. But PLEASE DON'T CONTEXTUALIZE IT. PLEASE! Or you'll have to come back as Baby Boomer. And I like you more mature.