Capt Ayhab

Koroush!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you expect me to debate with a blind moron who doesn't read my posts clearly? I said racism and hate are normal human emotions, THAT CAN BE CONTROLED BUT YOU CAN NEVER GET RID OF THEM....

I suggest you read more clearly instead of rushing in and barking.

 This is the third time that you have done this.

:)

مضحک تر از افکار نژاد پرستی‌ و اراجیف مسخره که این گونه
افراد عنوان میکنند، اسمهأی هست که رو خودشون میذارن، [ایرانیان دودی] یا
[رزمندهٔ آزادی  ایران].

بیچاره کوروش کبیر برای چه کسانی‌منشور حقوق بشر رو نوشت 

-YT 

For example, ethnic germans

For
example, ethnic germans make up almost 30% of the American white
population...

That's nonsense. We have more people whose ancestors came from Poland, than from Germany. The portion of the US population that is descended from Germans is negligible. Now, if you said "Germanic"  you'd be on to something, because most northern Europeans are Germanic.

And Most Americans don't even
know their own European ethnic background.

Most white Americans will SAY they don't know their ethnic background. Because that's the politically correct thing to say, these days. It's kinda like when you ask a Sunni Arab in Iraq about Kurds or Shiites, they all have kurdish and shia family members. Even if they don't.

They all call theirself
"Americans" (Anglo saxons). American right now can almost be considered
an ethnic group because these people are so assimilated.

Dude, Anglo-Saxon *is* an ethnicity. In fact, it's more than an ethnicity. It's a tribal designation. Anglo-Saxons are ethnically English. When somebody says they are Anglo, it's the exact same thing as saying they are English. The word "England" means "Land of the Angles". And do I really need to get into reasons why descendants of the English colonists might seem so well "assimilated" in America?:o

KourshS Jan

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that more sense of patriotism and devotion are present in the people who have roots in the given society, absolutely none what so ever. History is proof of your statement.

What had created the question in my mind been the statement you made, linking DNA to patriotism. Being perfectly honest with you, science MIGHT, in the future, demonstrate that life style, culture, ideals or even religion can have mutative effect on ones DNA, since we know so little about it. 

Much obliged for your clarification sir

-YT 

Hmmmm

Give me an Azeri and 15 minutes, and I will turn him into a seperatist.

You claim you can do better than Saddam-Hussein did with the Kurds?

Cap, you're whispering...

yaasin in "doodzadeh's" ears, my friend. This guys has dug a hole and he keeps digging with himself at the bottom of it. At least we may end up with some debsh compost to fertilize some plants.

That said, I have started to respect those KKK guys who don white sheets and hoods and participate in open rallies in public facing those who oppose them, with more respect comparing to closet racist like this character who is too coward to even use his real name (I'm assuming he a male).

Anyone who says Iranians ethnic groups eat "Persian food" so they can TURN PERSIAN (my caps), is a fool who needs to be completely ignored.

I think we should let this "dudee" stew in his utter ignorance because his xenophobia is beyond repair. Let's move on, bro.

Capitan jan

I can not provide you with any further reading material capitan jan. Sharmandeh:(

I know that under many circumstances under which sacrifices were made for the love of other countries and cultures, such as the ones you cited, but you can not deny the fact that someone who was not born into a particular culture, can possibly show more love and passion in defending it, in tough times, more than those who are natives. Although historically documented, Their frequency was not quite that high.

Even today, as you and I have witnessed, Hezbollah and hammas send soldiers and fighters to various muslim countries for various causes, but for what purpose? Are they representing a particular, and Real culture or are they doing this based on some bogus and invalid bond that ties them all together and more importantly for the money.

what i was trying to emphasize and highlight was the fact that, the love and devotion and sense of dedication to the traditions and ideals of a society and its culture can be best expressed bythose who have original and deep roots in there, and although others who have chosen to adapt to the ways and ideals of this culture, their sense of patriotism and willingness to sacrifice can not be on the same level.

Yet another jewel droped

Our resident Pure Persian[my foot] has dropped yet another jewel. He notes[ The only two major groups who have not fully assimilated, are the the
blacks and the hispanics (Especially the hispanics) mainly because they're not white.... So it's harded to assimilated and integrate them into the American category cause they're simply not European..... Now
if you look at the hispanic, they're actually trying to seperate (search up aztlan), and the one's that still are not, are demanding
that they speak spanish in schools, daily life etc.. instead of English.]

What is your solution to assimilation of African American? How are you going to turn them WHITE?

Awaiting your answer porfavor.... We shall discuss your solution for Spanish folks later.

-YT 

P/S did you know you can spell check?

Mr. KouroshS

You noted[As a techniqual matter, I think tthat one's DNA plays an important role in expression of patriotism, as much as  one's passion and love for a certain culture.]

I like to know more about this theory if you can provide some further reading material. For I personally do not believe that DNA plays such a role. 

Patriotism to me is much like the urge to defend ones private residence but in much larger scale. Allow me to give you an example.

African Americans  were originally brought to this continent as slaves[historical fact as sad as it is]. What is unknown to many, even naturally born US citizens is the amount of sacrifice they gave for this country. Starting with their participation in Civil War, to WWI and to the present time.

As a matter of fact During WWI, 171 African Americans
were awarded the French Legion of Honor, French's most distinguished bravery medal for their role in the war between Germany and France. They were part of 369th Infantry under the command of General Pershing. During that war there were 350,000 African Americans in the army, of which 200,000 were sent to Europe.

//www.archives.gov/education/lessons/369th-in...

My question is, how does this [theory of DNA and patriotism] explain this historical fact? How can we reconcile the extreme patriotism black have demonstrated by the DNA issue?

Regards

-YT 

Iraniandudee

I am not quite sure here, But i am beginning to think that there should be some spelling changes taking place in your name, as in changing dudee to doodii?

In every posting, your attempt in clarifying your rationale for this insane proposal, loses credibility, that if i were you i would be looking for a moment to just change the topic and forget about the whole thing.
You think That rasicm is a natural human emotion and that it can NOT be controlled.  The persian influence you talk about exists only in your dreams. I think you are so confused. You propose Brainwashing Azaris and Kurds and Baluchis and you want this all to happen under some legal and lawful manner and Voluntarily.

I suggest That you start direct negotiations with Mr. Khamenei, a.k.a Ozmaa joon, and see what he thinks about your brilliant idea. Surely he's got a couple of things of his own to add to this and then you can take it to the Majlis and then get really cracking in there.

My eyes are open why don't you Grow up ?

iraniandudeee

I have no agenda to further except to demonstrate ugliness of being like you. Ones who feed on hate, racism and bigotry. Ones who lack all the progressive social mannerism and etiquette.

There is nothing to judge about you except the obvious ignorance in your thought and mannerism. A typical loud mouth little man  who sees himself as superior to others by the virtue of their [arbadeh keshi], ignorance and name calling.

I would have rather not to stoop to you level by losing my patience with you, but you needed your clock cleaned[so to speak] to see the depth of your ignorance and ugliness of your ideas. ;-)

I am done with you dudeeee jan

-YT 

iraniandudeee

Firstly my apologies for delay in response, hopefully you did not think that you have given any answer that has me convinced that you are not a bigot. Fact of the matter is, more you try to sugar coat your original statement, worse it gets. Here is how;

You noted on by Iraniandudeee on Mon Jul 27, 2009 04:41 PM PDT

[I do believe that a multi-ethnic state will not last long (no divided or multi-ethnic society has lasted long)]

Ethnicity is defined as Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.

//dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethnicity

Ethnicity is an important means through which people can identify
themselves. 

Ethnicity is a fundamental factor in human life: it is a phenomenon inherent in human experience.

According to the definitions, you would like to outlaw this INHERENT factor of human life by [CONVERTING] to what YOU think people should be. You call it purified Persians.

I am afraid sir that you do not even know the meaning of the term, nor are you aware of implications of your new racist law. Let me give you an example.

Lets take yours truly, who is an Azari. Born and raised by family of Azari, who did not even speak Farsi untill age of 5. We in our family consider ourselves Iranian FIRST then Turk. So what is it am I supposed to do to fit your model of pure Persian? Not to speak the language? Not to claim to be Turk? Not to perform certain cultural events that are specific to Turks[i.e. the way for instance we celebrate marriage, child birth in family, engagements and etc etc etc].

How about  art and music? Your pure Persian might not accept our cultural Azari dance, literature, music and art . What about Kurd? Lur? Gillaks and Mazandarani's? How about Arab speaking, Arab  Iranians who have been living in southern Iran for 1000's of years? How about Ghashghaies and Balooch's ?

I know I might be overloading you with too many questions, but tell you one thing. Iran has been the way it is for thousands of years. A beautiful nation of Fars, Turk, Gilak, Kurds, Balooch, Arabs,etc etc etc. and has worked just fine. BUT you come along and you want a Kurd to convert to ???Persian, You want to convert a Balooch and Azari to what you call Pure Persians.

HOW in the hell are you going to do this? and most importantly WHY? What is it about a Kurd, or Lur, or Turk that bothers you so much? 

What is it about their ethnicity and culture that SCARES you so much that you want to pass a law to CONVERT them, and who says YOU are the pure Persian? Just because you were born to a Farsi speaking family?

Did you even KNOW, or bother to find out that the purest[lack of better word] of all Aryans are Lur and Kurd??????

Your ignorance is astonishing Mr. Fars man the Bigot. Do some reading to at least know your own heritage and never mind converting the rest. I speak only for myself , and FYI I am doing just fine the way I am, A proud, patriotic IRANIAN Azari, who gave you Zoroaster, Babak Khoramdin, Sattar Khan, Bagher Khan Yaghoub Lithe, Shams Tabrizi, Shariyar, Samad Behrangi, Jalal Al Ahmad.... Too many to mention.

Sir, first go find out WHO you ARE before trying to change and convert rest of us. And for God's sake read a bit.

-YT 

Ay-hab

 You blindly accused me of bigotry without reading my blog, and judged me too quickly to only further your own agenda.

 I proved you wrong, and now you keep quiet......Claps.... I must say, I guess you have some dignity after all, unlike these ignorant simple-minded fools who bark without even giving someone a chance to explain. 

Persians/Iranian moved from India?

You don't even know your own history..... We originally moved from Central asia into Iran, not India. Some say we invaded India, some Iranics stayed, and some moved into the Iranian platue.... Though I doubt that we even invaded India.

If you look at the modern iranians of today, and compare the average Iranian to the ancient Persian statues, you'll see that they have the same facial features: Thick eyebrows, straight nose, the lips etc... etc...

Few Responses

Mr. Nouraie,

Thanks for comment and allow me to add that for years we as Iranians have shied away from discussing this subject, both individually and collectively. Considering that Iran has been perhaps the very first nation of various ethnic, religious, cultural and language for over 3000 years now. This [melting pot] was brought into existence due to tolerance and foresight of our forefathers with mankind's very first Human Rights Charter.

Yet in resent decades, particularly within past 30 years this huge division has been created in our society which is leading to some of the ugliest out bursts of bigotry.

Give you an example, We all hate what IR has done to our nation and no need for me to repeat the atrocities. As a result of suffocating repression, now we hate Islam, we hate Arabs, we hate anyone and anything that might or might not have contributed to our misery. Same old blame game wouldn't you say?

Mr. Yassari,

Do appreciate your thoughtful comment and your compliment. You basically nailed it sir. The biggest hurdle for this social maturity lies within the person[The Bigot] him/herself. It is much like addiction to drugs[lake of better example]. So as long as the person is in denial, so as long as the person does not desire to see the fault nothing can be done. No amount of lecture, no amount of social stability can change the ways of that person[The Bigot].

ONLY social pressure, in coordination with well thought constitution of the land, which guarantees equality for every single citizen, can modify the behavior.

Mr. Lance Raheem,

One of the gentlemen that I have named in this thread has chosen not to participate, but I would like for you to take a look at his thread that was published yesterday.

//iranian.com/main/blog/freedom-fighter-i...

Truly nauseating to say the least. No historical nor factual statement can be found in the thread. 

Question is what is this [PURITY] of Persians are we talking about? Pure from what?

Our ancestors move to Persian plateau from Indo-European[Aryans] thousands of years ago. It wasn't until the time of Cyrus the great which fragmented tribal units were brought under a strong, progressive and TOLERANT central government. The central government that guaranteed equal rights and freedom of religion, speech and assembly to all the citizens from nomads in Sahara to citizens of Ecbatana[present day Hamedan].

By propagating PURITY, what we are in essence losing is THIS HERITAGE that was left for us. Heritage of tolerance and freedom for all.

Best regards gentlemen and thanks for your comments 

-YT 

P/S sorry for type on Indo-European ... ;-)

I regret the delay

My apologies to everyone for such an unavoidable delay in responding to your kind and informative comments.

-YT 

AK69

Purpose of the thread is not censorship, nor it is in any shape or form indication therein  that people should be silenced.

I am afraid you have not read the thread carefully to get the point I am trying to make. Subject matter is civility, tolerance, and knowledge of the past and present events in our history.

-YT 

ANYWAYS

I suggest we focus on toppling the Islamist regime first, then talking about this...

Koroush

The Persian influence that the Pahlavi dynasty spread might fade away in a generation or two...... Meaning that these people (MAinly the azeris) won't consider theirself Persian, speak Persian, practice Persian culture and customs....etc.... So  we should take advantage of the situation that we're in now, and pass this converting law (which should be by choice), because in a generation or two, not even 20% will actually convert, but if we pass it now, without a doubt, most will convert without hesitation.

 Also, it's not hard for a pan-turk to turn an azeri into a seperatist. Give me an Azeri and 15 minutes, and I will turn him into a seperatist.

 We can't in anyways take such a chance.... Cause not everyone is like you and me, many simple-minded people will be influenced by these foreign and domestic seperatists.

 Just look at the Pkk for a sec, 3000 Pkk Kurds are responsible for the death of 40 thousand people and billions of dollars in Turkey.

OPEN YOUR EYES. 

AK69

    The Difference bewteen people like me and the Islamic republic is that we are doing things that are benefitting the Iranian people, while the islamists are benefiting FOREIGN TERRORIST GROUPS AND COULDN'T GIVE A RATS ARS ABOUT THE IRANIAN PEOPLE.

 In the end, the act of nationalists will benefit Iran alot more than the 30 year islamist rule.

BTw........LANCE THE YANK

THIS ISN'T RACISM!!!!! IF I WANTED TO BE A RACIST, THEN I WOULD BE ONE.... DON'T TWIST MY WORDS FOR YOUR OWN AGENDA.

YOU'RE NOT EVEN IRANIAN.... MIND YOUR OWN BUSSINES.

LAnce raheem

I seriously couldn't care what an ignorant simple-minded fool like you thinks of me. Go ahead, call me a racist.

 Also, I never said that I'm not 100% racist. I'm generally NOT racist except if other people are racist to me and my people, but if they're racist to me, I'll be 100 times more racist to them :)

Everyone is Racist, whether you're white, black, asian, Hispanic, Chinese, Arab, Turk, martian, etc.... If you like asians, then you don't like blacks, if you like whites, then you don't like asians, if you like blacks, then you don't like whites, etc......

 Hate is a simple and natural human emotion.... You can control it, but never get rid of it.

 So get used to it and stop acting like racism is worse than, let's say.. a child rapist or murder.

Multiple personality disorder

In the U.s, majority of the ethnic groups are heavily assimilated and integrated..... For example, ethnic germans make up almost 30% of the American white population, yet non even speak German.... And Most Americans don't even know their own European ethnic background. They all call theirself "Americans" (Anglo saxons). American right now can almost be considered an ethnic group because these people are so assimilated.

The only two major groups who have not fully assimilated, are the the blacks and the hispanics (Especially the hispanics) mainly because they're not white.... So it's harded to assimilated and integrate them into the American category cause they're simply not European..... Now if you look at the hispanic, they're actually trying to seperate (search up aztlan), and the one's that still are not, are demanding that they speak spanish in schools, daily life etc.. instead of English.

 Now if you look at Iran, we barely have any specific racial diversity depending on your ethnic background, no. Everyone from Persians to Azeris has their own European, Middle-eastern, and asian looking people in their own group. It doesn't have to depend on your ethnic background for you to be from this race (whether White, Asian, midd-eastern looking). In the end, it would be easier for us to convert these people even more than in America, since most people (Even Azeris) are from an Iranic stock. 

 P.s, Ethnicity is not the same as Race. For example, an anglo saxon, a German, a Irishmen, is white, but they're still their own ethnic group with their own language, culture, mentality etc...

I got a Q 4 Q

- What is the difference between the islamic regime forcing their belief system down our collective throats and you and your self-proclaimed defenders of the Iranian Image Club wanting to shove your moral, racial, ethical, anal values down our cyber-throats?

QUOTE: This is a problem for us all and we need to help control it.

AK69 

Bar Labe Goore Man, Avaz Bekhan

MPD, I don't know if you were here,

but a notorious racist (Zion), made almost the exact same argument: That Israeli policy discriminating against non-Jews cannot be "racist" because Jews aren't a race!

She was laughed out of town, and so will this clown!

By the way, why is it necessary to pass a law for voluntary "conversion" to Persianness, whatever that means!? Shouldn't anyone who had wanted do so in the past 1000 years have already converted by now? What a silly idea!

Yes, Captain is right. There are many racist loudmouths on this site. Their numbers are small, but their mouths are big, so it always appears as though a large disproportionate number of Iranians in general are racist against Azeris, Arabs, Muslims, etc...

This is a problem for us all and we need to help control it.

LAnce

 What i meant to say was that even though he did not speak farsi until he was a teenager, the fact that he was born in iran and to an iranian/azari family, that means he has persian blood in him.

Lance raheem jaan

 As a techniqual matter, I think tthat one's DNA plays an important role in expression of patriotism, as much as  one's passion and love for a certain culture.

There are iranians who are amazed by some european cultures and some aspects (or the entire) american culture, Yet they do not posssess the respective DNAs, they don't meet all the conditions and real requirements to be called a patriot. There are those who were born into cultures different than their parents', But  that comprise a small percentage and i am referring to the majority who perhaps might have lived in those countries for a long time.

 So it would not be appropriate to call them real patriots. The same goes for the iranian culture. MAny of us have seen many americans who are fascinated by our culture, But can we really call and interpret their passion as part of their Patriotism towards iran?

Also, Your dear and beloved Granpa, Does have iranian/persian blood in him, for the simple fact that he was born in an iranian city.

O'Captain, My Captain....

A basic founding tenet of Democracy is free speech. Let them say what they want and stop whining. If you care so much, ka-pi-tan joon, then write 10 paragraphs on what you want to say.Free Speech does not exist if even one voice is silenced.

-AK69

Bar Labe Goore Man, Avaz Bekhan

Irandudee

With all due respect sir/ma'am, Why do you insist on fixing something that is not broken? If persians from all over the world, do follow an all-iranian Cultural traditions and customs and eat persian and ....... then by all means they are already in the category that they should be and they are known and always will be known as such. Why would we want to make this into a law?

With regards to Unity, you could not be more wrong. Diversity, although may appear to be the cause of disunity and divison, in reality and practically is the backbone and the strenght of any society. A society derives its livelihood and sense of dynamism precisely from such phenomenon. I find it very strange that you have somehow figured out that there are "millions upon millions" from inside and outside, who are the sworn enemy of Iran and iranians.

You don't realize that once you make something, anything into law you have just made  that particular issue "mandatory" and hence the whole concept and premise of "convention by will" will go down the drain. What is your hurry? How do you know that such a plan will be approved of by Those targetted groups?

Why don't we quit creating odd terms (Persification), why don't we focus on our current situation and recognize that the ethnical division that worries you has not reached a level where it could lead into a disasterous conseqquence and why don't we concentrate on ways which we can utilize the current solidarity that has been the result of recent demonstrations that as it turns out has happened for  A COMMON GOAL.

Capt. save your breath!

After centuries of invasions by monguls, arabs, and various other ethnic groups, one has to wonder if there is any such thing as "pure" Persian anymore.  Personally, I doubt it. 

My grandfather was born in Tabriz in the late 1920s.  He did not learn to speak Persian until he was in his teens.  His father who was also born in Tabriz never learned Persian according to my mother.  They both considered themselves to be patriotic Iranians.  

My mother was born and raised in Abadan where her father worked.  While I have never been there she has told me that most of the people in Abadan and Ahwaz spoke Arabic, but they considered themselves to be patriotic Iranians just as much as any other Iranian. 

My mother moved to the United States in the 1970s.  She married and is still married to my father, an American man.  My sister and I can rightly claim only 50% of our ancestry as being Iranian.  We are no less proud of our Iranian half as we are of our American half.  If my grandfather could count himself as a proud patriotic Iranian and have no Persian blood running through his veins, then I too count myself and my sister amoung proud Iranians notwithstanding the fact that half of the blood running through our veins is American. 

Irandudeee is a racist pure and simple.  Being a patriotic Iranian has less to do with one's DNA than with how much one loves the culture, tradidtions, people history and heritage of Iran.  Trying to convince a racist of this simple truth is like shouting in the wind.  Capt., save your breath.  Iraniandudeee isn't worth your noble efforts.

Payandeh baad Iran.