Devout Infidel

Mehrban

Thank you for your comments.

Apparently a lot of other Persian females on this site do not consider this topic important.

Go figure!

It explains a lot though, doesn't it?

This is a very important issue

I am sorry it has not generated a bigger discussion.  Maybe we are not quite ready to see our own tendencies that allowed IR to take us to harness.

Iranian women were the first line to be attacked and suppressed by IR.  Mandatory Hejab by no means was a simple matter it was the physical manifestation of the power of the Islamic State.   I have always wondered why a demonstration of the size of the ones we have seen recently did not happen when the first (supposedly bad hejab) woman was taken to the Komite and forced to sign that she was a prostitute.  Why was such unimaginable disrespect tolerated by their fathers and brothers.  

I think you have asked a very important question and a question that may hold the key to the puzzle of how was it possible for IR to take over the country of Iran and distort (?) it to its own liking.

Anvar

Anvar, thanks for your comments. As usual, one can count on you to look at thing objectively. I do remember our first conversation not too long ago on this site.

Yes, I agree with what you have stated. Actually, that is the point of the whole thing. But while hejab may be a symptom of a more systemic problem, one needs to understand the underlying causes and at the same time work to cleans the outdated and rotten belief systems that perpetrate such actions endorsed by  none other than the males of the society.

The examples you mentioned are sad reminders of the systemic problems I noted above. As for respecting women who wear the hejab…..I believe they are victims, that’s all. You may respect them, but they do not respect themselves, for if they did, they would burn those instruments of oppression.

Hijab and more…

*Cost-of-Progress* - The Zen-like situation of the Japanese husband, whether factual or not, is both interesting and thought provoking.

(Addressing the title of the blog) - I don’t think Hijab is the issue per se.  It is a symptom or a symbol of a bigger problem.  Generally speaking, I don’t think men in Iran (and the region) even perceive Hijab as anything abnormal.  That is because certain mentality has been engraved in the psyche of men, and women, that they deeply believe in inequality between the genders.  I may be wrong, but I think the very concept of Mahram/Namahram contributes to this chasm.  I remember when I was a child I had seen some men who would never even mention the names of their wives if front of others.  The wives were only referred to as “mother of children!”  And I’m not kidding.  Even though I never saw this by myself but I’ve heard women were required to put a finger in their mouth, when speaking, so that other men would not hear their real voices.  There are still places where women are supposed to walk silently three steps behind their husbands in public.  Women are supposed to use separate shops; sit in the back of the buses; use different building entrances, sit in the back of mixed classrooms.  Men and women cannot even attend a wedding ceremony together!  I think you get my point so I won’t keep going.

It seems obvious to me that people would not try to change what seems natural or normal to them.  So, I’m not surprised that they have not stood up against Hijab since they have not spoken out against other symptoms either.  When people truly believe in and practice equality between the genders, then women, and men, will reject the old symbols.

I must say that I have outmost respect for women who freely choose to wear Hijab, Chador, or even Burqa.  However, I’m heartbroken for those who, contrary to their wishes, are forced to comply.

Anvar

Shanska

Yes indeed, the separation of politics and religion is at the very base of freedom everywhere. But the question is why men (if you are one) did not do anything when the Islamic fascists enforced the code 30 years ago?

My answer? Because deep down after 14 centuries of lies and brain washing, most of us men actually subscribe to the Islamic prescriptions about women. I will not insult them by restating the shameful scriptures here, but it is all in the Tazi book(s), including that of Shias' beloved murderer of Persians, Ali, (Nah-jol-balagheh)- ugh.

Oh, I get it alright

If you dimiss hejab then you are cluless. It is not the very act of ones covering her hair and body contour, but the message it sends to the society at large. It also says a lot about the men of that society. I understand what you're saying, but it is you who does not seem to get it. Why? Because Iranian women did have women judges, ministers, etc. etc and that's when they could go out in the street wihtout having to wear the hideous hejab. So before we can go back 30 years to start all over again, we need to rid our women of the very shackles that entangles their freedom.....

Again, other countries without the enforcement of hejab may not have total women equality, but are far far more just than Islamic hellholes.

And....... thanks for calling me stupid! I thought we were having an intelligent conversation......

In any case, it does not matter; most women seem to have given up on this subject long ago, so the discussion is futile.

We Iranians need to wake up and wake up fast, what is left of our culture, history and identity is quickly being wiped out.

"IF YOU ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU'VE ALWAYS DONE, YOU ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU'VE ALWAYS GOT"

Excellent question

My answer to this question is, The State must be separated from the Church.

The Europeans did and now they are in a better shape than rest of the world.

Cost-of-Progress

Hejab is NOT in the heart of inequality, otherwise countries that women have no hejab would have equality. That's not the case.
You don't seem to get it. If Iranian people should strive for something, it should be that women should be able to become a judge or president. That's a fight to lead, not dress. You want to stand in their little mind games and play their games, go a head. That's as stupid as the IRI mentality.

Hejab is inequality but NOT in the heart of inequality. The heart of inequality is that women are considered less by the law in marriage, business and judgment. Fix those and the rest will be fixed, but it won't work the other way around.

Perhaps you are more religious than you like to believe

........."No one should mix the question of equality with these kind of issues, although with more equality these issues will be resolved,......."

HUH?

This is at the heart of inequality. If we impose different codes, be it dress, talk, etc..., for women and men, then we have fundamentally changed the essnece of what is known as equality. Of course, one can continue with this to include the worth of a woman vs a man in islam, the inability to divorce your husband even if he beats the living daylights out of you, inability to gain custody of children, the man's freedom to take on as many wives as he wants and etc. etc.....

If you do not agree, just put yourself in a woman's place who has to wear a burka to go out of the house to get some bread. Or, closer to home, put yourself in the place of our female athletes who recently lost a humulating defeat to Vietnam (yes....friggin Vietnam)  wearing the stupid Islamic dress code.

When you're done with that, imagine yourself as the battered wife of a guy who prays to allah 5 times a day between the beatings, but is helpless and fearful to go to the "authorities" to free herself from the hellhole she is in.

Then try to imagine how you'd feel.

I am not religious

But I think you are mixing the issues here. I too agree that there should be a freedom to dress however you want. But your question was why didn't Iranian men reacted to Hejab, and I was letting you know that the largest majority of Iranians, be it men or woman did not consider hejab any real issue. Most still don't. My family and sisters do, but we are the minority.
No one should mix the question of equality with these kind of issues, although with more equality these issues will be resolved, with resolving these issues the inequality will stay. What i am trying to say is that if we want to focus of women and their rights, it's better to pick our fight with women having the equal rights in the eyes of the law, and be able to become judges and presidents, the rest will fix itself...

No words from our Religious Hamvatans??

I hope I had not caused any hard feelings with my recent comments on other blogs and postes. I do know that I pissed a couple of them for sure, but unfortunately, religious folks cannot take criticism. I had hoped to engage them in a constructive discussion (perhaps wishful thinking) on this topic.

What about the women?  I realize that some have already posted some comments, but shouldn't this be one of the most important subjects of dicsussion for you?

Why are you silent here????

I do hope that you guys keep the comments coming. This is an important topic (among many) and one that is at the heart of what we, as a nation, consider freedom! 

NICE QUESTION

I believe it comes with the whole WEB of eastern cultural tangles, that in many society includin Iranians were trying to get them rid  off but they get pulled back some where because of that WEB or attachments to that cultural or religiose believes,Iranians be it by law in IR or in 1300 sh.(1900 A.D) some or a lot of Iranian women were forced to wear hijab becaue of their brother,father,husband,even neighbor!!!

culturally (unfortunatly) we can not compare our selves to the Euoropeans or even Japanese for that matter.

I am not saying one is better than other one either.      Maziar

Hejab....

I think this is a great topic to discuss. First of all Hejab does not mean najibat. Though hejab might have been part of the Iranian women clothing style, it is now forced on them. We don't know the percentage of women who would have chosen to wear it if the government would not put it in the law and enforce it.  

The other issue is standard we want to follow. We always say Iran has the most progressive women in the Muslim world!!! Is that our standard?

Additionally we don't want our women to be used as sexual beings (thus the hejab) but we still have Sighe!!! 

Not true.

I know many Iranian men who, short of exposing themselves to pointless violence, supported the women in their lives in the question of hejab. The reason they did not react like the Japanese man who was protected from the laws of the Islamic Republic is too obvious.

It is a deep sociological question!

To analyse and attempt to answer this quesion will reveal partly our "Iranian" identity, psychology and history. Mass psychology is a very perculiar and dangerous animal and can play an awful role in our lives. Some one once said" Indivitual can e sympathetic but masses are despicable" . It is a very interesting question.

What Do I Mean? Are you serious?

The point is that this particular person felt that he needed to walk the same line as his wife - to feel the pain. Perhaps, if we had all done that, things would have been different now. For this discussion, it is irrelevant that Japanese women are not as free as those in the west. They are much more free than Iranian women. 

Fact is the Irannian women, although more progressive than women in the rest of the Islamic world, are still highly persecuted for ....being women. I may be alone here in my stance, but subjecting women to wear hejab because it might give a man a hard on basically reaffirms the sickness that has perperterated the entire notion that women MUST wear hejab in order to keep them and the men from sin. It confirms the fact that Islam only sees them as objects, not equal to men. Indeed the halmark of Islam with its attention to the lower part of the body as the basis for everything there is.

Just because hejab has been a part of the Iranian female dress code for a long time, does not make it any less hideous. It proves institutionalized respression.

If you endorse hejab and yet consider yourself a moderate person, you are sadly mistaken.

Excellent question

Excellent question Cost of Progress.

What do you mean?

because in Japan women are so liberated? and men care for their women?
In Japan a woman CEO has to serve tea to all the lower managers because she is a woman. Why wouldn't Japanese men stand against that?

Hejab has been a big part of the Iranian women clothing, good or bad, and only Shah took it away for a short period.

good point

cause if men stood with  women in 1979, they wouldn't be able to get away with this stuff....

I think nazi's tried to out yellow star on jews in Norway or denmark or some place like taht and next day they found out every one is wearing yellow star. we seriously need to learn.