Covenant

...

" In the same approach, there's almost no unambiguous Biblical reference to Jesus "!!!

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken. 

He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong, 
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Writen 700 B.C. by the son of Amoz...

Some Comments

Some personal thoughts...

> Baha’is claim that the Bible speaks of Baha’u'llah, however, the only reference to Baha’u'llah in the Bible is an indirect one when Jesus and the apostles warned of the coming of false prophets and false Christs (Matt. 7:15-16; 2 Cor. 11:13-15).

I think the Jews had the same opinion of Jesus.
In the same approach, there's almost no unambiguous Biblical reference to Jesus. Most prophecies are indicating principles of the working of the Spirit, and therefore in a sense are symbolic (thus humanly vague) and capable of multiple fulfilment by anything embodying the Spirit.
There are actually a great many prophecies regarding both Muhammad and Baha'u'llah. Put it this way, the biggest thing in the world since Christianity, has been Islam, and therefore the Book of Revelation is unquestionably all about Islam; consequently you will find the most important prophecies of Baha'u'llah there too.

> The messianic verses from the Bible cited by Baha’is as referring to Baha’u'llah, can not truly support their claim because, among other things, Baha’u'llah was of Iranian descent, where the Messiah was to be Jewish (Matthew 1; Genesis 12:1-3; II Samuel 7:12-13).

Baha'u'llah's descent is said to be from Abraham through Keturah, and of Jesse. Keturah may be a female descent, but since Joseph did not sire Jesus, Jesus' descent from David was likewise through Mary not Joseph. As to Jesus' fulfilment, doesn't isaiah prophecy regarding Jesse and not his son, David? if the descent were through David (as Jesus is), the prophecy would be relative to the important figure David - not Jesse. This makes it clear that Christ returns with a different genealogy - that He is born of human again, just as He came down from heaven the first time, in the form of a child.

> Also, the New Testament repeatedly cites the fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecies in the person of Jesus Christ (Matthew 1:1; 3:14; 8:17; Luke 1:31; Revelation 5:5).

And some of them it even misattributes :)

> The second coming of Christ also can not refer to Baha’u'llah. Scripture indicates that the very same Jesus who ascended into heaven will one day personally return (Acts 1:9-11).

Elijah likewise ascended to Heaven and is literally prophecied to return. Of course Elijah came as John the Baptist - a different person in the same power of spirit as Elijah. Similarly the apparently literal return of Jesus, is of the same spirit and power.
If a daffodil dies for the winter, and rearises in the spring, is it the same daffodil or a different one? looking at the personality of the daffodil - it's leaves and flowers - it is different. Looking at the bulb (the Spirit) - it is the return of the daffodil and the same. Likewise you can say of Jesus' return that it is the same or different, depending on whether you look from a material or spiritual point of view. If your friend visits you in a red Toyota and says he will return again in a year, if he comes in a green Ford those looking at outward characteristics of the car (the body) will turn him away; those who see the driver is the same - the Holy Spirit is the same driver of both Baha'u'llah and Jesus - will recognise the friend's return.

> The Bible also prophesies several dramatic and highly visible signs that will accompany the Second Coming (Matthew 24:29). None of these signs were present when Baha’u'llah arrived on the scene.

But they did happen with Muhammad's arrival, as is well-attested by contemporary historians (and tree rings). The sun did not shine for a year - it could not even cast a shadow; the moon the stars were obscured; about a third of the world died in the ensuing 50-year plague. In the midst of this, Muhammad arose.

Ultimately these signs are symbolic. When Jesus says to eat his body and drink his blood, and many other things, it is symbolic. As Jesus himself said on many occasions, He speaks everything in parables.

> He also didn’t show up in the right place. Scripture clearly indicates that at the Second Coming the Messiah will come to Jerusalem and his feet will physically touch the Mount of Olives (Zech. 14:4). Baha’u'llah never did this.

If your verse is so "obvious" why did so many camp at Mount Carmel for Jesus' descent?

And since the prior verse (11:13) is taken of Judas, why not take the Mount of Olives of Jesus?

> The Spirit of truth in John 16:12-13 also can’t be referring to Baha’u'llah. John 14-16 clearly identifies the Spirit of Truth as being the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17, 26).

It sounds more like a Prophetic figure to me. "I shall beseech the Father, and He will provide you a different Intercessor, with the purpose that he remain with you for the age, the Spirit of Truth which society is unable to receive, such that it neither discerns it [the Spirit of Truth], much less knows it deeply... Now the Intercessor, the Holy Spirit which the Father will send in my name: that very one shall train you in all things, and put in your minds all things, which things I have conveyed to you... but I tell you truthfully, it benefits you that I stand aside: for if I do not, the Intercessor will not come among you; yet if I travel, I will send him on to you. And when he has arrived, it is he who will confront society on sinfulness, and regarding decency, and of a just reckoning... I have still many things to convey to you, but ye are unable to carry them at present. Howbeit, whensoever that one should appear, the Spirit of Truth, he will guide you into the whole truth: for he shall not utter from of himself; but as many things as he should hear, he will utter: and he will announce to you the things that are to come."

> Jesus said that His promise of the Holy Spirit would be fulfilled “in a few days” (Acts 1:5), not in the 1800s when Baha’u'llah was born. That fulfillment came on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2. The function of the Holy Spirit is to make known Jesus’ teachings, not to replace them with the interpretations of another prophet.

The prophecy you refer to, needn't be assumed to be the same prophecy.

> Jesus also said that the Holy Spirit would be with us forever (John 14:16). Baha’u'llah died in 1892 at the age of 75, far short of forever.

I think the Jews had exactly the same problem as you with Jesus not living forever.
"The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up?" (John 12:34)

//www.paintdrawer.co.uk/david/folders/Spiritu...

d

Canon of St. Patrick's Cathedral.

In Examining Biblical references to Baha'u'llah; it would be useful to read the writing and experiences of Christian scholars, and in particular those whose livelihood was the Christian Church.

GEORGE TOWNSEND a former Canon of St Patrick's Cathedral In Dublin, Ireland, started his correspondence with Abdu'l-Bahá in 1918. He later became a Bahá'í and wrote the following books:

//www.grbooks.com/show_book.php?book_id=37&PHPSESSID=c0e635753542162d56ac300f3199db03

//www.grbooks.com/show_auth.php?author_id=111 

• Townshend, George (1966). Christ and Bahá’u’lláh. Oxford, UK: George Ronald. ISBN 0853980055

• Townshend, George (1951) [1939]. Heart of the Gospel, The. Oxford, UK: George Ronald. ISBN 0853980209.

• Townshend, George (1972) [1948]. Promise of All Ages, The. Oxford, UK: George Ronald. ISBN 0853980446.
• I would strongly recommend any serious student of religion, and specifically the relationship between Christ and Baha'u'llah to read the following authoritative writings by a devout Christian Scholar.

Covenant

Covenant, how can you be so critical of others when you violate the most basic of principles. 

 לֹא יִהְיֶה לְךָ אֱ־לֹהִים אֲחֵרִים עַל פָּנָי

Some of what this C person

Some of what this C person says cannot be refuted,
at least in this one he is not spewing hate but just giving facts.

Love is the first (and only) step towards TheDivine...

When you love, everywhere is God, when you hate, everywhere is the devil.
Religion simply means a dimension of love; the beauty of life, the grandeur that surrounds you.
From that very grandeur you will have your first glimpses of God.

Covenant (IRI), why are you so much full of hate?!        

please forgive him,

he had my picture in the last blog, its part of the setizeh. he sometimes fights with his own collar

Jahanshah

Although I am not a fan of this fellow Covenat, nevertheless, there is veracity in some of the information stated in this blog.

It would perhaps not be a bad idea to feature it so that we could hopefully encourage some constructive discussion.