Dale_Husband

Rosie

You asked, "How, why, what in those first two posts made you draw the conclusion that I implied that you arei unethical from my first two posts? "

Because of this: "you couldn't even wait until there were other blogs up, no, you just HAD to post this one right away so the two could appear together as a matching tea set, it isn't even new, you just recycled it, but no, you just couldn't wait to enlighten Iranians on an Iranian website about how they threatened Rushdie and tell them to get a life, and you're not Iranian (neither am I btw), and then you pat yoursef on the back for your courage in big bad dangerous Cyberspace.

And now you can justify away whatever I said on the grounds that I'm a politically correct wuss"

And then: "Second of all, the man thinks he's Don Quixote charging in on his white horse, and there are plenty of practicing Muslims here and they don't need someone who's not Iranian telling them  how he will never forget how some of them threatened Rushdie and HOW DARE THEY this and that in his grandiose, self-congratulatory style,"

You were accusing me of being irresponsible and I took that as being the same as unethical. Perhaps you don't equate the two? If so, I apologize.

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

Rosie again

I'm posting this because I corrected my last post and it was difficult to read and sometimes misleading so I wanted to make sure anyone who'd already read it could reread it if they want to. So this post would show up in their tracking.

I deleted the content of my last post except for the (COP,Majid)

one line because I always say I don't want to cause aggravation for the publisher by making the discourse onsite ugly. So I'll say things here in a different tone.

COP, all my original post says is that the two blogs, Imani's and Dale's, would best not have been FEATURED together. I didn't say the publisher SHOULDN'T, I just said a lot of people might be disturbed. Together in this context means ONE ON TOP OF THE OTHER. Dales' blog could've been featured a few blogs up, that would've been okay. Not great, but okay. imho

COP, your very first post to me is accusatory, beligerent, and untrue. READ. This being the case, and because you have been so nast to me before, a few times, when I never did anything to you.  So honestly however I responded (reacted), that's half on you.

In my respnse, I ASKED you if you were the one who said something elsehere that really wasn't a major deal. It just suggested that you have also intervened and been judgemental about whether other blogs should be posted. I didn't SAY you said it, I ASKED YOU. And I told you that if you said no, I'd look for it.

But you went on and on about how I said Dale's blog should be blocked, and I only had an hour Internet time per day and I had to keep TRYING to get you to SEE that you had read me wrong. Because WHY should I be the one to EXPLAIN? It was on you to READ.

But you wouldn't. You saw what you wanted to see because you just don't like me, because of something terrible that happened to happen to me publicly the first day we 'met' one year ago, and I left for six months because of it. And I came back and you have this judgement that I'm some hysterical drama queen all the time.

Sn I didn't get to looking for that blog until Saturday. At some point I said you were thick-headed AND ON THIS THREAD YOU WERE. Beligerent to me from the get-go, intentionally provocative, and THICK about my post.

Well, on Saturday I found the blog. It wasn't you. That's why I hadn't found it the first day. It was somone else I 'met' the same time I met you, with a similar handle and avatar, who I don't know well, like I don't know YOU except for your occasional disdainful comments about me.

I apologize for that but I never would've said anything like that if you hadn't been provocative from the get-go.

So I really feel everything that happened between us on this thread was 50-50. And I don't care what you think of my drama. Everyone who knows me (it's been three years now, I was one of the first people here, I helped build this community as a major player) knows I'm..let's say..very vulnerable. Not histrionic on purpose, but occasionally I do get publicly...let's say..upset. And many of the old-timers know the particular situation that's kept this manifesting periodically.

But they also know my other contributions. And in the weighing and the balancing, they've always felt it was worth it to them for me, after taking breaks to chill out,to come back, and suggested I do.

That time a year ago was not the only time anything like that happened to me in my three years here, it was the only time in my life. And it was NOT 'drama'. It was something very different, and if you couldn't see that,..ah well.

And if you are determined based on that  one time, to see me forever the way you do, to such point that you can't even read SIMPLE things I say, well, again...ah well.

Finally I will throw in that calling you thick and asking you if you had said something, ESPECIALLY when you started the beligerence, is in no way, no how, comparable, to having somene offer publicly private information about someone that they CLEARLY say is damaging.

And you didn't say anything, but you did NOT distance yourself from that either.

Well, I'll go 50-50. However you go, ah well

_____________________

As regards the purveyor of my deep dark secrets (accordng to YOU third hand) that you offered publicly, so PROUD that you'd already been circulating them, you are austrolopithicus subspecies reptile, and as I said, do as you please. You will have to face the perspm whose confidence you've been betraying, first privately, now publicly, for a long long time 

And that's more than enough for me.

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PS COP, I would like you to go into my current account and view my recent blog on Hussein Derakhshan, if you wouldn't mind. That's the kind of thing I often try to do. If you want to call it drama..ah well.

Best laid plans of mice and (wo)men.

Sorry for the delay in replying.

Ditto, HHH

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer

ALL WHO JOIN ANY AND ALL RELIGIONS SHOULD GET A LIFE

The same crap that you see happening within muslim societies has happened or happening within each and every religion particularly those with considerable power, control & followers.

There is a creator but he doesn't go around talking to his tiny creatures. The Prophets were created for Profit.

If you see more BS on TV about muslims than about Jews or Christians it's because the TV's are owned by the Jews and western-influenced Jews are pro-Israeli, anti-muslim and specially anti-Iran. So it should be easy to know what's censored by them & what's not, what's exaggerated & what's swept under the rug.

For every man that IRI executed, the good ol' Christian Americans killed 1000 in Iraq and Afghanistan. For every man IRI tortured, 20 were tortured in overseas CIA torture chambers, Gitmo and 100 other dark rooms in US bases. Only no one ever had the microphone to talk about it in the west.

So when people get wise enough they'll get rid of all of these man-made, ridiculous religions and start being just a good Human, with no limits or borders.

Dale says,

My intention was to get those Muslims who claim to be moderate to get
off their butts and kick those of the extremists who have hijacked Islam
for centuries.

If moderates used violence to kick the extremist's butts, would you still perceive them as moderates?  It appears that muslims have been the largest group of victims of Islamic terrorism, so It's understandable that they may fear standing up to them.  Though i'm sure you've heard about the Iranians standing up to the IRI in the past year

Dear Dale_Husband

Looks like you want to decide for god what to do. You interpret the Quran as you wish as others do........

I do not find much fairness, compassion, and mercy in what you preach muslims should do.

You are trying to play the role of a prophet with no legitimacy. Muslims are fine humans as other people are on the face of earth. Let's be fair to all and accept the fact that muslims are waking up and this is part of growing pain. I do not see the truth in individuals but rather The Truth exist independent of muslims, christians, jews, bhiddist or atheists.

Dear COP,

So sorry it's taking me so long to reply but I am in a situation right now where I have limited computer time (and none tomorrow), and since I wanted to make sure I make things as clear as possible, I will post on Monday. Have a lovely weekend.

Dear Dale,

Thank you for your long post which is apparently written for everyone. But you still haven't answered my question. So, now for the third time:  

How, why, what in those first two posts made you draw the conclusion that I implied that you arei unethical from my first two posts? 

And honestly, Dale, since it seems you truly wrote this blog to sway rather than antagonize Muslims and their supporters (or should I say rather than ONLY antagonize), you probably should answer me. . Because you have to remember that basically you don't have to convince the anti-Islam people here of anything much regarding your feelings toward Islam (except unless you go too soft on it, mind you, for some...), and the practicing Muslims and their most vocal supporters are on my 'side', as it were, on this one.

So whatever they may think of my specific posts on this thread---content, tone, style, etc., they would probably hold you in somewhat higher regard if you answered my question rather than ignored me.

So, for the third time, how, why, what...????????

OK, I'm back

I was actually worried that I'd be banned from this site as a direct result of what I posted. Since that has not (yet) happened, I am open to direct inquiries about my motives here. Inquiries, not accusations.

I am aware that not all Muslims are the same, just as not all Christians, not all Jews, and not all Atheists are the same. I never claimed to paint all Muslims with the same brush. That's why in the blog entry I said, "Do you REALLY beleive in Allah, who is described throughout the Quran as ”the Merciful” as well as “Forgiving”? It seems that many of your comrades in faith do not and merely use His name to destroy people’s lives and freedom!" Many, not all. If I meant to condemn ALL Muslims, I would have said, "It seems that you do not and merely use His name to destroy people’s lives and freedom!" I try to be precise with my words and it is frustrating when people overlook that and assume I'm a bigot. Ouch!

My intention was to get those Muslims who claim to be moderate to get off their butts and kick those of the extremists who have hijacked Islam for centuries. Not just the Al-Quida terrorists, but most of the actual rulers of Islamic countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and many others who take Islamic law and make it the laws of their states. To subject Sharia to any non-Muslim is a violation of the Quran, as I attempted to show. It doesn't matter if 99% of a country is Muslim, the remaining 1% should be left to live as they please. If my Quran quotes were inaccurate, please show why. Otherwise, my position stands.

I am especially angry at my own country, the United States, because it does not use its influence with Saudi Arabia to tell its monarchy to dump the contemptible Wahabism which has made it a laughingstock around the world. As for Iran, I am also angry that the USA helped overthrow the democratically elected Prime Minister of that country in 1953 because he wanted to nationalize its oil fields and then allowed the Shah to take absolute power. The sad truth about America is that it is not a true democracy, but a corporatist state and it was the corporations that run its economy that motivated it to screw with Iran. The resulting blowback of 1979 was well-deserved, but it only led to one tyrant, the Shah, being replaced by another, Khomeni. The truth about what caused or led to the Iranian Revolution was censored by the corporate dominated media in America, and it was not until many years later that I learned the truth. I've been distrustful of my government ever since.

Dale Husband, the Honorable Skeptic

Dale _ Husband, go learn some history

Why do you post this article on this website?

Do we look to you like we are Arabs or Pakistanis?

If you are so stupid and can't tell the difference in geography then you should stick with what you know!

Posting your article here as opposed to an Arab forum is a great insult to Iranians.

We can care less about the Arabs or the Jews and their petty fights over the centuries.  In fact, with the grace of God, these two tribes shall fight one another to deflect their attention from Iran

If you don't like what I have to say, then go drink from the Persian Gulf!

COP.

you said in your very first post to me that I had said these types of blogs should be banned. I asked you twice to explain how you came to that conclusion and you kept quoting an excerpt from my post that didn't say that, and all you kept saying was see, it says that, it says that.without explaining anything.

I told you I would explain to you that it doesn't say that, since you were incapable of seeing the obvious yourself, and I asked you if you know the difference between 'posting' and 'featuring'. Now instead of just saying yes or no, or making a new evaluation of the text in question based on my stressing that 'featuring' is key, you are coming back at me with all kinds of irrelevant things about my apologizing to you (???!!!), my loneliness, and god knows what else.

Would you please just stick to the topic and since presumably you DO know the difference between featuring and posting, re-read the excerpt you chose and let me know if you still think I said blogs of this type should be banned?

Dale,

the reason I asked you to take a look at Mammad's post at the beginning of Imani's thread (on the august blog that inspired you to post this one..) was simply that I wanted you to know that there were other Iranians here who were offended by your blog but who weren't saying anything---at least not right here. Because at that time there weren't many yet. And also that I was not this sort of lone Atilla the Hun accusing you of being unethical (I didn't) while terrorizing the villagers. It wasn't to have a lingusitic debate with you about Mammad's use of the word 'racist', which you copied for me here and commented on to me as follows:

What kind of an idiot equates criticism of Islam with racism? Muslims are NOT a race! They include Arabs, Persians, Indians, Turks, Africans and Europeans.

Nevertheless, this I will say briefly: first, the distincition between a critique of a religion and an attack on its practitoners is often a very subtle one, in constantly shifting sands; and second, there is no parallel word for 'racist' for one who acts toward and talks about people based on religion the way one does based on race.

This is actually quite a complex topic, which poses a concrete problem that needs to be tackled, so much so that it could occupy several articles I have given it a lot of thought... If you wish to continue discussing it, write to me on Imami's thread and I'll answer you. But not here.

Here I'm just waiting for you to get back to me on why you thought I said you were unethical. (I'm assuming you've already rejected the use of the word 'everybody', so we can let that one go...)

Majid,

Your post to COP and Mitra was a reference to me. Don't you remember I already told you I have no reputation left to ruin? Or do you suffer from the same problem they do? (can't read). Tell anybody anything you know or think you know about my private life,, on or offsite. But if you are going to do it offsite and announce it onsite,, you really should offer the information to everyone. So I'll do it for you.

Anyone who's interested, please contact Majid through his contact button and ask him to share whatever he's been spreading about me offsite with you. Some of it is probably true since he has at least one good source, and a lot of it is quite juicy. After you get it from him, if you have any questions about it, please feel free to ask me. 

Xmaster jan

Yes I do. Let it be! okay? Just let it be,

Thanks for your observation Doc

I thought I could better communicate with them on their level.  Probably will make things worse as you say.

But do you have anything to add in regards to the blog?

Now that I've been totally derailed, lets get back

to the subject.

As I was going to say, but never did, Dale has a right to say what's on his mind, but that does not make his assertions correct, or accurate.

I agree totally with OI that an overwhelming majority of muslims - specially in Iran - are moderate or totally secular. They do hold dear the essence of Islam (afterall, it's been 14 centuries, you know), but the depiction of the Islamic world to be an out of control entity bent on world destruction is one that is inaccurate and frankly, a dangerous precedent.

I am NOT defedning Islam, just the truth as I know it. I still beleive Islam is generally too stiff, backward and stuck in 7th century, but that does not mean you paint all muslims with the same wide brush. You could say the same thing about Christians, just look at the abortion debate and how many doctors have been murdered in the US because they perform abortion. is that progressive? NO! 

And you know what, it is a very small fraction of the muslims who made the world solidify its view of the muslims to what it is today.

If more muslims spoke out against those few, things would be very different, but they don't, do they? Now, why is that?

With warmest secular regards,

CoP

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IRAN FIRST

____________

ehh...Boycot man

I encourage you to STFU and get back to your desk in the basement of whatever Islamic Regime's embassy you're hiding.

Check out all the crap posted and spewed by your islamist brainwashed morons on this site so you can shut your yapping about aipac and other garbage.

CoP, the thick-headed secularist

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

It's OK, Rosie

You don't have to try so hard. I said I accepted your apology, no sense in beating yourself about it.

I do feel bad for you as your loneliness makes you visit I.com frequently and pick a fight with anyone who challenges your need for drama. That makes your day and fills the void I detect in your life.

I suggest you stop trying to engage with me as I am very thick headed and have no ineterest in mingling with....shall we say people who are emotionally and mentally challenged.

Although I am technically trained, I am not a doctor. In the past, however, I have prescribed chill pills to others whom I sincerely believed needed it. You, Rosie, should take two in the morning, but don't call me......ever!

Sincerely, 

CoP, the thick headed Persian with no patience for crap!

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

I encourage hamvatans to boycott this AIPAC dominated website

As you can see from the articles, this purportedly Iranian site's content is
anti Iranian and comes largely from an Israeli/AIPAC perspective, which is
offensive to the vast majority of Iranians. Please do not engage with this site
except to warn other Iranians.

COP, Mitra

Another blog hijacked.....LOL

Contact me, I have some interesting stuff to share with you two as I did with other IC members!

Like I said...

He's imprecise with his terms and definitions, and he is maybe even exagerrating and stereotyping somewhat by lumping all Muslims into the same camp. But overall Dale is not a bad guy and the intention behind what he's saying (even when imprecise) is not completely off the mark. I would've written a blog such as this completely differently. But the difference between he and I is that I actually do know there are vast differences between most Muslims as opposed to the Islamists, and not just on a personal level. He doesn't. He's an American and obviously to some degree a creature of the popular culture of his land. Instead of jumping down his throat perhaps we can educate him here, show him the distinctions and differences, and so get him to fine tune his argument and broaden his horizons, no?

Educate, don't condemn!

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer

Ateesh byare maareke

Thexmaster.

So what do you want to do now? Take out a gun and shoot him? We have had enough of your Intelligent rebuttal on two blogs for one day. You might not realize it but you are inadvertantly fuling his fire.

he's targetting is really the Islamists and fundamentalists.

He starts off by addressing all muslims, then talks about some muslims, then older muslim men and then goes off on a tangent.  Imprecise is sugarcoating the intellectual diarrhea that came out of Dale.

Khaleh moosheh joon

Dame shoma besiyar garm ast. Ma shifte-ye Shahram Nazeri hastim :) That was also a good piece to relax to. Thanks. As for your rusty Pahlavi, there are always decent modern Persian renderings of the Avesta around as well as good English translations. If you're looking, let me know.

As for Dale, try not to see what he's saying as an indictment of the whole tradition. He's a little bit imprecise with his terms and definitions, but who he's targetting is really the Islamists and fundamentalists.

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May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer

Mr. Husband you're wrong and are totally ignorant of

the mindset of the average Muslim.  The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are non-religious, or if are religious, practice their faith to the same extent that an average modern day Christian or Jew practices his / her faith.  

Your stereotyping of the Muslims is totally ignorant and is based on lack of knowledge.  You say:

 I am disgusted by the practice of older Muslim men marrying girls as young as 12 and making them fall pregnant. What a violation of the girls’ dignity!

Really?!!!  My father is an older Muslim man.  He's not planning on marrying a 12 year old girl and "violate her dignity"!!  What an ignorant thing to say. The practice that you refer to is extremely rare, and almost non-existent.  Does it happen?  I'm sure if you look in some backward village somewhere throughout the Muslim world, you may find an instance or two.  But you can find the same thing if you dig deep enough in the Christian world...or perhaps take a trip to Utah where self proclaimed prophets have multiple underage (and teenage) "wives" and concubines.

I'm sorry, but your "blog" is a total waste of cyberspace. 

Dale, Get a Life!

Honestly, first you did a little Bahai bashing and now onto Islam?  Usually, when people are spending most of their time bashing other faiths or idealogies means they're doing it to strengthen their own weak beliefs.

I went through that incoherent rant above and I just kept thinking to myself, who the hell is this even addressing?  I mean, you refer to some muslims in regards to the rushdie controversy.  I'm sure some Islamists were trying to kill him.  Are any Islamists actually here?  I wouldnt even consider the resident IRI goons here Islamists.  How long ago was this?  

Then you go on about how Muslims feel more superior to others.  What a silly thing to rant about.  Countries, cultures, religions feel superior to others in one way or another.  The only people that will be upset about this are those with competing idealogies.

Some other things I can't wrap my head around, like muslims believing muhammad is equal to Allah....where did you actually get this non-sense from?

Then we have this little brain fart:

If you are given brains by Allah and do not use them to determine truth from falsehood and morality from what is immoral, those brains are wasted and thus Allah is dishonored. If your only sources of truth and morality is Islam and the actions of Prophet

Seriously, do you have absolutely any idea what you're talking?  You take the complexities of human nature and demean it to a mindless, heartless and simplistic organism because of your narrowminded preconceptions of muslims.  Don't muslims also read other books?  Don't they watch tv?  Don't they study?  Work?  Aren't they influenced by other things and other people which help them form their personality and their own perception of truth and morality???  It's funny, you claim with arrogance that your skepticism and "lack of faith" is what helps
you to better understand morality.  Feeling superior much?

Your vision of muslims are drones who are reading Quran 18hrs a day, and when they have time threating and killing people.  I don't see skepticism here.  I see arrogance.  I see self-rightousness and narcisism.  You would have made a good prophet.

Hope your little rant helped your shortcomings and fears.  Now you can move on to your next target,.

small ps, COP

COP, I really don't understand why in your last post you assumed I couldn't/wasn't going to let you know about that blog we spoke about and that issue of whether or not I had recommended banning these types of blogs. I had written in a PS to you below that it was all coming.

You really should read more carefully. It does seem to be a general problem with you.

Aryana, others

Aryana, my main issue right now believe it or not, isn't with the blog content per se. At least not strictly speaking in this particular context. My main issue is with how, when and why Dale posted at that specific time.

Of course, that's just me. I'm just waiting for Dale to come back so that we can continue developing a common terminology, and then I'm going to explain this, my MAIN issue, very carefully. For him, and of course for any others who are following this.

ps. Aryana, I LOVED your post on this thread. Have you been able to find more information about the current persecution of the Sufis? I did try googling but I couldn't find any, but then I don't even understand much Persian...