Persian Realm

I think in the movie

The Co Workers were actually trying to get away with it and they did by claiming hse was responsible. But given that she could not read it seems wierd that she would have had a leading position in decision makings like reading the names of the people to be killed etc ... This is suggested when she is embarrased when working at the Train Station her boss tells her she is promoted to an office job (which she probably refused on some pretext). So she could not have been in a strategic position as her co workers ( themselves Nazis) who knew it would be to their advantage to put all the blame on her. But again the explanation in the movie is purposely ambiguous and doesn't aim to clarify her guilt which makes the movie so powerful in its message.

As the Guy to be honest he reminds me of our Bus Driver at School Abbas Agha ;0)

There were many Tough Guys in traditional families. These guys grew up in the Streets and learned it the tough way. So if the government gave them a job and it was legal, why would they refuse ?

That is why democracy is so important for any country in order to be transparent on such things as Prison and the condition of prisoners.

That said, if you go to Turkey today or even Morocco I am certain that the situation is no better no worse that during the Shah's time. Why didn't people complain about those countries at the time or even today ?

There can be no compromise on Human Rights regardless of which country you live in, and it is something that needs to be staunchly defended when it is not respected. But there is a great deal of hypocrisy when it comes to Foreign leaders demanding it from other leaders. As if they did not know ...

Like everything it is a question of interests. The same countries that accused the Shah of atroceties went and sold chemical Arms and other arms to Saddam Hussein and at the same time to Iranians and remained silent during the entire 1980's about the crimes commited by the Islamic Republic.

Fortunately Things are changing today so lets hope more awareness will  lead to some positive results in our country in this regard in a near future.

I think in the movie

I think in the movie Kate Winslet's character "claimed" that she had no choice but the witnesses said otherwise.  The witnesses said she did a lot more atrocities that she was "required" to do. 

The witnesses were not just the victims, her co-workers corroborated the victims when she claimed she had no choice.  Kate Winslet didn't want to explain anything and just wanted to be punished but when the tribune "demanded" that she explain she gave that explanation.

BTW the tribune's yelling was a lot like reverse proganada, they didn't know any better at the time, like vigilante justice.

It is a powerful movie and you question yourself about what you know about humanity.

So who does the savaki guy look like?!  The actor also had an afro like him.

Everything is sacred.

The Reader is a Great but troubling Movie

Exactly.

I saw it recently with my Mom ( who was a child during WWII so she kind of could give an insight on the movie's message) and I was really impressed by the performance and maturity of the subject.

Not an easy issue to deal with. I don't think that the movie was about guilt, or even compassion but rather empathy.

I still don't know what to think of Kate Winslet's character in the movie. Is she guilty or was simply instrumentalized.

No one can forgive her for she took part in the crime knowing what she was doing, but on the otherhand was it that once she had accepted the "job" (amidst her country at War) that she was kind of trapped and given the horrific task would never have been allowed to resign. The Nazi Camp's hierarchy could have easily killed her without trace if you refused to cooperate after entering the Camp. It may have been too late for her to quit and being stunningly and even obsessively practical she just accepted to go with the Flow.

I was very much troubled by the film. I still don't know what to conclude given that She deserved to be punished but that her "level' of responsability was not established honestly and she had to pay for the responsability of her colleagues ( who  appeared to be the real decision makers in her sector).

Its a Very powerful movie. It left me with more questions than answers about human nature ...

Yes that was what

Yes that was what Ghotbzadeh and many in national front were screaming about, let's have trials so we know what was happening with witnesses and all.  The truth is that many were tortured and the evidence is in the life long scars on their bodies.

A good movie about the Nazi guards at concentration camps and the trials is The Reader that won an Oscar too.  I really like that movie.

BTW the Savaki guy looks also like an Iranian actor of the time with thick mustache.  I can't remember his name but he was very velvety and used to either rape women in movies or rescue them from bad guys!  Was it Mashayakhi? Mofid, no not Mofid.  Probably not Mashayakhi either, maybe Tohid, Tofig?  I don't know, do you know?

Everything is sacred.

Except that the Truth will never be established ...

Guilty or Not, none of these fellows got a fair and unbiaised Trial.

The truth regarding their responsabilities or eventual crimes were rarely if never proven given that they were often executed after a mockery of justice.

Had they been tried based on international norms of justice one could then draw accurate conclusions.

Alas that was not the case.

The Nuremburg Trials in Germany after the fall of the Nazis was a very serious tribunal where the most sordid criminals had a lawyer to defend them.

Amongst the people tried in Nuremburg for Nazi Crimes only 11 were Hanged ...

That is really a small proportion given the death of 6 Million Jews in the Nazi Concentration Camps ( most of the criminals who carried out the crimes either ran away to South America or were captured by Israel after the war by the Mossad) and some 60 to 70 Million deaths resulting from WWII due to Germany's responsability in provoking the War.

In Iran on the contrary, anyone who was suspect of a crime from a simply soldier to the highest officers were hardly given the right to defend their case and were often executed immediately after their sentence was stated by an incompetent law Student or Mullah substituted as a Judge.

History is often Cruel when Winds Turn ... 

The guy looks like

The guy looks like he's done plenty of atroticies in torture chambers.  The guy in 3-piece suit and tie is something else! Hollywood has used his look in many movies, like Kurt Russel's Executive Decision!

Everything is sacred.