Anywhere but Israel, Please...

A bridge to nowhere...

Building bridges requires two banks. If there's a bank on the otherside visible and reachable, you can begin constructing a bridge. I have tried many times to do just that, only to be disappointed and end with a destroyed half-bridge.

But I have to admit, the boundless optimism that Rosie is showing to anyone of any persuasion is remakably refreshing in an increasingly jaded world. Perhaps there is hope afterall.

Intentionally misunderstanding

Q, you can play this game as much as you like. I have given you clear answers. If you want to willfully misunderstand them and insist on your biased presumptions as a basis of reasoning, that is your own predicament. I explained to you that Israel's policy towards citizenship of Jews is not discriminatory. It does not take over other people's rights. Anyone can become an Israeli citizen, they just have to go through the normal process. I have already explained this and if you are incapable of understanding it, that is your problem. Your "reasoning" about falsifiablity is the same. You "assume" Israel policy is discriminatory and aggressive and this is your criterion of falsifiability. You still deliberately refuse to acknowledge my response to you. It is an elementary concept to understand that to be anti-semitic is not restricted to specifying the word "Jew" directly in your sentences. The logic of your arguments determine whether they are anti-semitic or not. The same way that you confuse ethnicity and culture with race, or talk about the "look" of Ashkenazi Jews.Your "facts" about the war of independence are wrong. To insist on wrong "facts" vis-a-vis Israel is indicative of one thing only. The descendants of the Arabs who left Israel during the war obviously can become citizens of Israel individually. The issue is their demand for an a priori mass return and recognition is equivalent to the destruction of Israel (which is a Jewish state). Of course you can't (or don't want to) comprehend the fact that being a Jewish state has nothing to do with Racism or discrimination, the same way that a French, an Anglo-Saxon or an Iranian state is not racist or discriminatory. To say otherwise is an attack against the very fundaments of Israel, and is an instance of anti-semitism because it singles out Jewishness and treats it deliberately in a convoluted way that no other culture of ethnicity or state is subject to. nice try, Q, as I said you sound like a professional arab and anti-israel lobbyist with all your "deliberate" misunderstandings, spins and convolutions of facts and reasons.

Zion,

At least I have an identity. You can click on my Q to get my bio which includes my name.

With you, I'm not sure which chicken I'm responding to or if it's the same person or someone else trying to be the previous person called "Zion". Since you're not interested, I'm not going to talk about myself except to say: chill out. No need to be paranoid thinking that just because you hear decent arguments someone is on a payroll somewhere. That's an insult to ordinary Iranians or Arabs.

Your "non-antisemetic" criticisms of Israel are interesting and valid. I have actually made many of them myself. People like Meir Kahane and occasional desciples who go "Baruch Goldstein", and the entire settler movement are the heart of the problem. They have an active interest in killing any peace initiatives because they want Judea and Samara. They openly espouse a racist ideology which unless confronted will only strengthen and solidfy. Unfortunately successive Israeli government have chosen not to confront them because it makes their own politics seem saner by comparison.

But this was not the point. OF course it is very convinient for you to "define" what arguments are and are not antisemetic. This is exactly what's unfair about it. Why should one side get to decide what is debatable and what isn't? Just because you have come up with 4 token points, does not mean all other points are antisemetic. You don't get to unilaterally say X is good, Y is bad. What is needed is a not a list but a standard that is reasonable. 

The standard that exists to recognize all other forms of biggotry is clear: Discrimination on race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or accusations against people just because they possessed certain "traits" or aspects that they have no control over. That what we use to determine homophobia, racism, discrimination against women, etc. I fully agree and abide by this. I don't attack Jews for being Jews, their religion or their ethnicity. In fact, I don't attack Jews at all. I criticize the Israeli government's policies just like I would criticize US governments policies and probably many other countries.

The problem is this standard which is good enough for every form of biggotry is not good enough for Israel hawks. They want to make it so that even if you don't attack anyone's race, religion, ethnicithy or trait, you are still antisemetic.

That's the real problem.

Dream Land

Calm Down Rosie. You are indeed naive to believe that some one like Q is building bridges or means well, or Islam in the past has been this heavenly enlightened realm for Jews, or... but I won't argue with you. You evidently prefer to live in this ideal word of yours, Islam, palestinians and the oppressed of the world, and gaya and what ever else.
I wish you good luck.

Zion, you're not helping your case

Let's start with your point 1.

A. Race and ethnicity are interchangable. UN does not differentiate between them, and its definition of racism, actually includes discrimination against ethnicities. In the strict sense of the word, Jews can be considered a race, as well as a religion since by definition is defined by heredity. But it doesn't matter. Discriminating against people of different "ethnicity" does not get you out of racism.

B. The Israeli policies that you cite favor Jews based on race, religion or ethnicity. This is the definition of racism. Don't waste my time arguing this point, or I'll have to ignore you.

C. What you are really saying is that it's OK for Israel to discriminate because it is supposed to be a "Jewish state". First, if you claim this, at least you are not dishonest about your intentions, second if this is true, than Israel cannot be a democracy. No other democracy restricts its citizenship to one race or ethnicity. Even if they start out largely homogenious (like France, but unlike Israel), the extension of citizenship to new immigrants is not discriminatory based on religion or ethnicity. Israel's is. There are Arabs who were born in Jerusalem that have gotten US, French, British citizenship but are not allowed to get Israeli citizenship. End of story.

It's a the height of cynical hypocrisy to say that people born and raised in Europe, and whose family has been for 2000 years have a "birthright" and get to receive all kinds of free benefits, and paid-for travel, but Arabs whose actual parents used to live in what is now Israel, dont' have a right to return to their own homes. If that's not discrimination, what is it?

point 2.

A. I say the same thing about the US. There are many books written about how a society comes to be dependent and dominated by the Military Industrial Complex. Exactly the same thing has been said aobut US, UK, the Soviet Union, etc. So, I won't waste time even dignifying your cheapshot that this is somehow "antisemetic."

Israel is directly benefiting from Billions us US foreign aid, guaranteed loans, frequently forgiven, below market price military gifts, and many many other benefits provided at the expense of the American tax payer. Israel, a country of 7 Million has for years received the largest amount of US foreign aid. The fact that Egypt, a country of 70 Million receives about half that amount, does not make a difference. According to every real-world economist, such a situation creates an unhealthy dependency, which in this case is based on military support. Therefore, there is an active interest to perpetuate insecurity and little incentive to make real concessions to end the conflict. That's how it was with Iraq's Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran, that's how it was with Turkey's war on the Kurds and that's how it is with Israel's struggle with Arabs. A state in need of security gets the free money. If it is not in need of security, it probably won't. I'm sure for most Israelis this isn't a conscious calculation. However, they are in a situation where it's easy to justify "security" spending and gradually have more and more expectations of what "security" means without understanding the rabbit hole the dependency has created for them.  As Upton Sinclair said: "It's hard to make a man to understand something, if his paycheck depends uopn him not understanding it."

You say Israel's leaders are pragmatic. That's seriously debatable. To this day, no Israeli leaders recognize the right of Palestinians to have a nation, even after they have done so with respect to Israel. Every single Israeli leader has continued expansion of settlements in the West Bank, even though any pragmatic leader would understand that this issue can only hurt, not help, the cause of peace. Isn't it pragmatic not to build settlements? Isn't it pragmatic not to build apartheid walls on Palestinian land? Isn't it pragmatic not to engage in collective punishment knowing that it breeds more terrorism? Isn't it pragmatic not to violate other nations's sovereignty on regular basis? Isn't it pragmatic to treat Palestinians as human beings?

point 3.

This is really amusing. You say Israel is not like South Africa because the British were opposed to it. First of all, the British were also opposed to South Africa becoming indepenent, but that does not make it any less of a colonial project. You apparently don't understand the colonialism link. So let me make it chrystal clear to you:

The Ashkenazi population were European looking, European educated people who were culturally European. They started moving into Palestine in early part of the 20th century in large numbers, bringing in their European custosm, styles, and language (yiddish) as well as attitudes and education. This is what makes something a colonial project. Just like a Bunch of European moving to Australia or the American colonies. It doesn't matter that they were eventually independent (like South Africa), they created a first world/native world cultural clash and they took over the entire area, controlling the resources and people's lives for themselves and driving out the natives.

Your description of the 48 war is so heavily doped with Israeli mythology that I'm not sure you are capable of snapping out of it. The British actually helped Israel which they halped create. So did the French and many other Western nations. They also armed the Israeli defense forces with latest European weapons while the newly independent Arab nations still had world war I era equipment and no funding. Except for the first few weeks, Israel's forces were actually were more numerous than all the Arab nations combined and it kept growing disproportionately. Please, spare me this david/goliath mythology. Israel won that war, because it had more people, better equipment, better training and modern (meaning western) tactical advantage. The "attack" of the Arab nations was not a sruprise and an expected (and anticipated) result of Israel's ethnic cleansing which began prior to the 48 war. Every single sentence I used is a fact, so I ask that you seriously study them before you attack me. I'm not in a mood to play games.

Lastely, as to your reasons for justifying calling me "antisemetic", once again I have to laugh.

I have not said anything about Judaism, ethnicity or religion. My only object of attack has been the government of Israel. Dispite this, you still claim I'm being antisemetic because - you say - other antisemites also attack Israel. That's like saying terrorists love ACLU, so if you love ACLU, you must be a terrorist. So, even if I don't say anything against Jews, you just read-in what you want into things I didn't say. Therefore, once again, exactly as I described it, the attack on Israel by itself is proof of antisemetism.

This is not logical. It is only an emotionally charged polemic that presumes Israeli Government is equal to Jews and Judaism, a preposterous proposition that no one believes.

Your notion of antisemetism is not falsifiable. That is, you cannot show allow for attacks on Israel (not Jews) to be NOT antisemetic. However, my criticisms of the government is perfectly falsifiable. The Israeli government, as it is, can simply stop these discriminatory and aggressive practices and it would invalidate my attacks on it. In other words it's possible to have a perfectly acceptable (to me) Israeli government that does not do any of the bad things that I have talked about. But the reverse is not true. It's not possible (to you) to have these criticism of Israel and NOT be antisemetic.

Have a nice day.

To Zion, Koroush, Daryush, Curious, and Q

I am sorry I haven't been participating but...this is breaking my heart and  it's tearing me to shreds. I can't believe that you Zion would talk that way to someone who was trying to educate somebody else about the history of anti-Semitism.  Q took all that time to do that and he didn't have to do it and you're excoriating him instead of trying to build bridges.  It's terrible. It's too painful for me to watch.

 And you Koroush, it's unbelievable. You and Zion are both brilliant men.  You both know know very well that "my" people the Jews had their greatest fluorescence under the Muslim scholars of the Abassid caliphate in Al-Andaluz.  You know that it was these same scholars who saved the classical texts from the early Christian's book burnings and transmitted them through Europe, and without them there would've been no Renaissance and no modern world. You also know that it was the Sultan of Turkey who uttered the famous words in 1492; "The King of Spain must be insane. He is expelling his best subjects" and he welcomed us with open arms to the Ottoman Empire.  You know that the Ottoman Jews still speak Ladino which is Medieval Spanish written in Hebrew characters and that there are very few of them left and that it was Christians, not Muslims, who exterminated them  

 And Koroush I told you before and I'm telling you again:   a mad fourteen year old Azeri Sufi boy and his army of Turkomen rebuilt  Iran out of the rubble, the salted soils and the  the mountains of skulls of the Mongols,d the Tatars,  And in nine short years he laid the entire geographical and national identiy of  modern Iran.  And Shiism was his tool. WIhout him there would be no Iran today. And the entire legacy of the Pahlavis, which I have worked tirelessly on this website to defend, stands squarely on the shoulders of Shah Ismail. And you still want to play Aryans and Lizard Eaters.  It's just a game. A dangerous, deadly game.

The problem with you two is that you're afraid of the power of your own mind. You're afraid that if you don't cling to simplistic historical narratives that give you comfortable black and white ideologies you will dissolve in the endlesssly creative unknown of human consciousness. You're afraid of your own fanaa...extinction. You're afraid of the fertility of your own mind.

Judaism and Iran would not exist without Islam. And you cannot turn the clock back and you cannot rewrite history.  You can try but it's just words. History is larger than your words. And you have to stop. You have to stop this ridiculous Islam-bashing now. 

It is true that Islam in general has not kept up with the modern world for some time (for reasons both external and internal) and it is also true in the second half of the 20th century we have witnessed very unappetizing political ideologies that call themselves Islam. But they are no more unappetizing than you, Zion, telling me to go do demographic research to prove there were Palestinians in Palestine.

A land without a people for a people without a land.  To defend such a slogan is a kind fo Vernichtung. And you probably both know what that means. it is the German word for "extermination" but it literally means "to make NOTHING out of something",. "nothingization."  When you defend such a slogan you engage in a psychological and political "Vernichtung", you deny the existence of an entire people.you annihilate them psychologically.  And then you wonder how Daryush could call Israel a Nazi state.

I think it's disgusting for Daryush to use that strm. I wish Q would speak out about it more strongly, but at least he tried to build a bridge. Daryush,  Anyone who truly hates Nazism will NEVER use that word on the victims of the Nazis, no matter how great their misdeeds. To be able to utter this characterization reflects a deep-seated, in this case possibly unconscious, anti-Semitism. It cannot be otherwise, Daryush. You just could not say it if otherwise. It would make you gag.

But you FEED each other like vampires. Daryush calls Israel Nazi and you say how dare he and then you "nothingize", you psychologically annihilate a people and he, or people like Curious say it louder, then you say it louder, and then you dance this tango of death together.  You revel in it, all of you. You holocaust each other. Everybody singing and dancing Nazi Nazi, Totendanz, dance of death. You're vampires and you NEED each other for your dark dance.  You are lovers:  Zion and Daryush, Koroush and Curious.  you are lovers. And you dance in the dark where it's safe because you're afraid of the Light. Ahura Mazda my bloody ass.

You need to open up the sunroof and stand up and open your arms to the people.  The people of Palestine, the Muslims of Iran. Daryush, the horror and the tragedy of the Jewish people AND the state of Israel. You need to open the sunroof and stand in the sun.. Maybe someone will shoot you, maybe you'll die, but better to die with the sunroof open.

The Final Solution did not happen overnight. It was a slow process, a gradual stripping of human rights (and not just those of Jews). First it was what job you could hold, who you could marry, it became illegal in the Reich for Jews to say the word "blond."  Then it was work camps and then it was death camps.  The Final Solution was nothing more than the stripping of the final human right: the right to be alive. The constant depredations and humiliations perprated against the Palestinian people, the purposeful establishment of checkpoints to make it impossible for them to earn a livelihood, the mocking, the abuse, the tearing down of civlians houses...it doesn't MATTER who "started" what, who threw the first stone.  The onus has always unfortunately, despite the magnitude of the historical tragedy that brought them there, been on the Jewish people of Israel to make the accommodation. Peace talks have often failed because of the right to return.  Why do you think they want to return? Why is it so important to them? Because it's home.  Everybody wants to go home. You want to go home Zion to a home that was promised to you thousands of years ago. Well they also want to go home. What is so hard to understand about that? Everybody wants the SAME THING.

Suicide bombers in supermarkets.  It's terrible.  It's awful.  The Israeli government should have responded by opening up the borders to the people insterad of closing them.  Better to die with your sunroof open than to live like this

I'm not naive, Zion. I'm the pragmatic one. I understand that the wretched of the earth (it is Franz Fanon's term) WILL rise up and ARE rising up and I understand that the earth itself WILL rise up and IS rising up. UN predictions: we have twenty years before massive massive environmental catastrophes start to kill us all,  If we don't get with the program--he whites of South Africa finally did== there will be no world left in which to have these discussions. The truth must be squarely faced.

Open up your sun roof.  I'm sick of this discussion. You're tearing me to shreds. These accuse me of being a traitor to my people and these accuse me...of simply being.

5000 years of patriarchy and NONE of it's worked and now we are all paying the price and you don't want to see a new world...5000 years and all it led to was the atom bomb, that big dick  in the sky, that fabulous radiation cum squirt, and now you want to dick me in the ass with your words. But I won't let you. I won't let you. I speak for the Mother, I speak for Earth, and you can't dick me in the ass. Go dick each other in the ass if you want but I won't let you dick me.

I only let men dick me in the ass when I WANT them to--mifahmid?

 I've had it with this discussion.  Anybody who wants to dialogue with me can reach me on one of my old or new articles or blogs, or find me someplace else on the website.  It stinks in here. It stinks of rot. I'm not coming back to this thread.

Robin

PS Daryush I ask you to please change the word "Nazi" in "Nazi State of Israel" to "Oppressor State of Israel." It is more effective. "Nazi" (and "Fascist"-Q) in soundbyte form provoke reactions of terror in ordinary people and polarize them into the hands sof Fascists. If you want to CHANGE the hearts and minds of ordinary Israeli and non-Israeli Jews, you need a new language. "Oppressor state" is a good term because when you say "oppressor state" the question then becomes, who is oppressed and the answer is very obvious, and the focus it shifted to where it should be.. .away from your Dance of Death.

Good-bye for now.

Q

I don't know who you are Q, and I am seriously not interested. The name you have chosen only brings images of an irritating figure in Start Treck TNG series to my mind, but your points here and your style so exactly matches Arab and Islamic lobbyists in the West (like CAIR in the US), that I wonder whether you are professionally into this business?
Is that so Q? Are you even an Iranian or a professional arab lobbyist?

Non-Antisemtic criticisms of Israel

There are many many. Here are just a few examples:
1- The parliamentary system in Israel has given fringe religious and ultra-religious parties a lever to influence Israeli politics and as is the case with all religious figures in politics and power, this is the cause of a lot of trouble.
2- The Rabin's policy of bringing Arafat back to power was both practically and morally wrong and indefensible. As people like Sharansky had always stated, this was merely a way of empowering thugs and dictators to control palestinians indirectly and to crush the violence sing the Arafat thugs to do the dirty work, where as the correct and moral policiy would have been to empower modern, secular and freedom seeking fractions among palestinians and create an minimum stability to eventually bring them to the forefront.
The same goes with Israel's initial backing of Hamas to deter Fatah, Morally wrong. Practically wrong also. Now we are all paying the price.
3- The Leftist patronizing attitude about Arabs. Meir Kahane was a dangerous idiot in his fundamental belief. (Any one who opts for a theocracy in the end of the 20 century is an idiot. period. ) but in certain issues he was right on the spot. He once said that it is extremely insulting to the arabs, the way the secular left in Israel diminishes arabs by constantly putting forward the superficially "benign" and "humanistic" view that the root of problem is the bad economic and educational condition of palestinians. As he put it, to say that by giving them TVs and home toilets we can pacify a people who believes their homeland and honor has been rubbed from them. he was right. The public opinion in Israel constantly refuses to see this.
4- Israel's reliance on America and American aids. It has literally turned Israel into an American satellite, were Americans can and do put pressure on Israel to do what they want based on US interests solely. It is the exact opposite of what anti-semites like you believe, and it is a sick relationship that actually feeds this kind of paranoia in others as well.
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Anti-semitic criticisms of Israel

Not at all, Q. I can give you precise examples of what kinds of criticisms belong to each category.
Examples of the wrong, intrinsically anti-semitic category:
(I give examples of your own words in this thread)
1-"...the fact remains that the current Israeli government and policies are racist;"
Nonsense. Judaism is not a race. It is an ethnicity but nit a race. Israel's policies are not even discriminatory in the sense you mean. Israel is meant to be a Jewish state. Jewish here must be understood as a nationalistic-ethnic-religious-cultural s term. The same way that Republic of France is meant as a French state. So any Jew automatically can become an Israeli citizen. It does not mean that non jews can't be, or a non-jew israeli citizen has less rights as a citizen. Hence it is no more "racist" or "discriminatory" than the policy that says a child born of American parents anywhere in the world can automatically become an American citizen, or that a child born on American soil, even from parents as tourists, can become a US citizen, while others have to go through an arduous process. It is an inherently anti-semitic mentality that considers Judaism in anyways related to race or racism.
2- "that it is ruled by some violent fanatics controlled by the Military Industrial Complex who have an interest in perpetuating war and conflict"

Rubbish. Israel is not "ruled" by a certain bunch. It is a parliamentary democracy, people are elected in government as in any other real and functioning parliamentary democracy in the world. Those in charge of government in any given time are the farthest people you can find from fanatics. If anything they are obsessive pragmatists. They do not have interest in war and conflict, because that is detrimental to the growth and stability of Israel. They have always been ready for peace, they have been ready to negotiate with their enemies. Egypt one example. The dismantling of settlements, evacuation of Lebanon, of Gaza strip ... To imply that "Jews in Power" are bloodthirsty war mongers is an anti-semitic illusion.

3-"Israel was established as a South Africa style colonial state".

Incorrect. Israel was formed as an anti-colonialist state. The British forces were a detriment to the establishment of Israel. Despite the Balfoure declaration, Britain sided in every single decision afterwards in favor of the arab population. Britain prevented Jewish migration to Israel before, during and after WWII. Jews had to be smuggled to Israel secretly and "illegally" Jewish militias had entered in armed conflict with British forces. During the war of independence, it was the Arab armies who were trained, lead and supplied by major European armies and commanders, while Israel had to fight them alone. The United state of America had declared an embargo on sales of weapons to both sides, while the arabs were being sold weapons by the Europeans and the soviets. It was only after 1967 that America became a major supporter of Israel due to her Cold War self interests.
Israel is not an apartheid state. By law Arabs can obtain all position of power. They already have many members of parliaments, parties, and have even been appointed to the supreme court. It is precisely because of this open system that the arabs insistence on right of return of the socalled refugees is designed to change the Jewish nature of Israel (which is not a racist feature, as mentioned above).
4- "Israel supporters [in the US] nearly nuked Iran this year".

Baseless nonsense accusation. As is the claim that US went to war in Iraq because of Israel's interests. Israeli officials and lobby groups were opposed to the war and were actually in favor of a policy of internal regime change in Iran, which was unsuccessful and still is.

Both 3, 4 is based on the well known anti-semitic idea that Jews somehow or other are the puppet masters behind the world events who control corrupt politicians with their money, which they have acquired to their materialistic and degenerate greedy nature in the first place.

Zion: [Yawn]

Zion,

Thank You for proving my faith in the ever present ignorance and fascism of humanity. I guess we're always going to have it. Just as I predicted, you are calling me an antisemite because I criticized Israel. Don't you realize, that's what you wrote?

You use cowardly weasel words like "your kind of attack on Israel and Zionism" without bothering to define what my "kind" of attack is. It's by design. Because it's meant to be a fluid concept, whatever is against Israel, that's the "kind" of attack that is antisemetic. Why don't you just come out and say it?

Israel hawkes like to pretend that there is a "kind" of attack on Israel's racism and violent behavior that is "OK." Yet, somehow, miraculously no one is qualified to make it, unless of course, it's not really a criticism but instead some kind of affirmation of Israeli policies. What they have almost done is to define their opponents out of existence. Someone could be Jewish, a Rabbi, holocaust survivor, whatever, he's still labeled 'antisemite' and must be silenced if he speaks against Israel. That's the definition of facism.

But this is ending, the jig is up. It won't work anymore. It's costing more and more to intimidate less and less people. It's not sustainable and is unraveling.

Good Luck!

I get paid . . .

You see I get paid by Israel, the U.S., the IRI, China, India, Andora, Kazeroun, Jaghoolistan for every post that is made here, whether by me or not! I appreciate any and all comments, however, Aliesque or Mohammadesque it may be.

The Brits stopped paying, because they have a new person on this site, oh well!

I am in your home, in your fears, in what you want to be, in your failures - I am your paranoia. I am your escape. I am your quicksand. I am the thoughts you would not utter. I am your shame. I am your mirror. I am all of you and none of you. I make you face yourself. I am the guy you once knew.

Now repeat after me!

Every recreant who proved his timidity in the hour of danger, was afterwards boldest in words and tongue.

To: Korosh Sassanian

I know you.You Collect money from government.You are in government houses.Don't lie to people.

Re: Kouroosh Sassanian About your writing...!

When somebody reads your comments he can guess how much you UNREASONABLE ,BLIND,VULGAR and a PERSON who takes only ONE side and does not listen to the other side.

When somebody Respond to your ridicules and nonsense comments with good reason and answer SUDDENLY you DISAPPEAR and you have nothing to write and say Because you know that person is right and then you think WHY I DIDN'T THINK about THAT.

Unfortunately YOU CAN'T TAKE any comment from anyone who says something against you WORDS.

YOUR RESPOND to that person is INSULT,USING WILD and BAD WORDS , Finally you end to this RESULT: ACCUSING that PERSON MUST BE A MUSLIM.

YOUR DUMB WEBSITE IS EXACTLY LIKE YOU(DUMB,UNREASONABLE,VULGAR,IGNORANCE, INSULT,you name it...)

On Naives and Hypocrites

Rosie, I saw your videos. I appreciate your sentiments, but I'm afraid you are too naive. You can't change or undermine the deep rooted biases, or justified grievances, of people this way.
Q, you might think you are smart, but this kind of techniques no longer works, my man. The link between your kind of attack on Israel and Zionism and anti-semitism is clear and direct, though you -wisely- try to deny the latter to buy credence for the former. When you attack Israel and attribute nonsense "evil" kind of actions her policies against all norms of fairness and justice and in clear contrast to FACTS, there is only reason for it. Israel is a Jewish state, and it is the same old biases against Jews and Judaism which have mutated themselves under this leftist modern pc "acceptable" talk and excuses. Israel is the new "Jew" among nations, and is treated collectively that way and cornered into a new collective state kind of ghetto. . The only difference between you and the likes of this curios whatever, is that he is more simple and honest and you are a bigger and more subtle hypocrite.
Anyways, all I wanted to say is that your double talk is not fooling anyone anymore. Go do something decent for a living for a change.

Rosie jan . . .

It will get deleted anyway!

Now, would you be interested in my business venture?!

At night,when songs are sung of hopelessness,
I await from far off the sun's lip scorching
warmly kissing the neighbor's rooftop - just to see is warmth - just to feel its passion.

At night, when a sorrow congeals in the cold of the garden,I listen for the death coughs in the groan-rattle of my decaying chained hands, just when the dew starts to evaporate I feel those chained hands slip off.

Koroush, for god's sake...

this is madness. Please stop it...please...

But soon will leave to start my own website service ZANFAX.com

You have to be a muslim to subscribe! $7.99 for a one time check. You will get to check whether she has ever had an air bag deployed or whether she has had any rearend or frame damage issues. It is a WIP..so hang in there!

Iranians are notorious for odometer fraud - doukhtan, etc. But, for the first you will know if any "kook" has ever been used.

Also, all saf-karee[dent removal] will be reported!

I will make more than I make posting here!

My salary

I discussed my salary for posting here, but it was deleted. Oh, well....

But, it is more that the money mullahs have stolen from Iranian. It is more than the Persians whores make in EAU screwing "your" arab muslim brothers. It is more than any Jew or Christian gets paid. It is more than the three jobs Iranians have to have to pay for their daily needs. It is is more than what the IRI spends on its military. It is more than the money Iranian arabs when they travel to Saudi Arabia to thank them for having them over the barrel for 1400 years. It is more than the inflation in Iran. It is more than the rent the Iranian refugees have to pay in Turkey. It is more than a kilo of red meat in Iran. It is more than the money spent on drug by Iranian youth.

I say I get paid pretty good....mo money mo money....

Can you all take a moment from your busy schedule...

of tearing each other to shreds in the name of the Good and click on each link I posted previously--the first was taken from someone on this thread, I searched the rest--and tell me what the difference is between the four?  Do any of them make you happy?  Do any make you DANCE?

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N6Z_IhzBak&feature...

//youtube.com/watch?v=lenIs40ZuUQ

//youtube.com/watch?v=0-nEkR47wDk

//youtube.com/watch?v=8aHFRwGD47M

What's the point? What's the point? 

delete the post, but

you can't unring the bell, khak barest ke delet karedee...you are such a hossein, you are an ali and a mohammad...

You are right Q

People like "JustCurious" are reasons why we have to remove all Iranian Arabs and Muslims; all of them! Israel has a right to exist and the Iranian Jews are our brothers. Non-Jewish Iranians want to kill the Muslims too. Do to them what they say they will do to us. Us Jewish ones are why Iran has such a rich history. Without us, there would be no history in Iran. Long live Israel and long live a Muslim-less and an Arab-less Iran!

Re: Korosh Sassanian You are a Stupid!

Tell us how much you get paid to come in this site and say stupid things about the Iranian and their beliefs .M%#@ and shit head.F#%& U

JustCurious: that's just stupid

First of all, plenty of Jews have PhD's. Second, Jews have never been hated by "people of every color", in fact throughout history, they have lived in peace in the Middle East. Up until about 100 years ago, there was no hatred specifically against the Jews in the middle east. (there were some, but in all cases, the Jewishness was coincidental and other ethnicities were targeted at other times.)

The origin of what constitutes real "antisemetism" stems from the behavior of the Catholic church after the fall of the Roman Empire. The Church's fundamentalist stance and strict ideology demonized the Jews as those who betrayed and "killed Christ." Vatican wanted to distinguish itself (and the new testament) as superior to older Jewish traditions. Demonizations were made to accomplish this, driving European Jewish communties to stick together for survival. This biggotry stayed with Christo-European culture in various forms and through it exported to the colonized world including India and Latin America. Many third world nations (including Iran) through the influence of colonialism, or their drive to immitate European economic "success" adopted many cultural aspect of the West which included antisemetism, and other forms of Western biggotry.

It was this same sentiment that Hitler exploited (not unlike what some right wing fanatics say about Mexican immigrants today), to gain popular backing

The post-colonial response to what was widely seen by people of the region as just another colonial enterprise (creation of Israel), may have overt antisemetic dimensions, but these are not historic, as the European kind. Most of it isn't literal antisemetism, but some of it is. This kind of antisemetism is anti-Israelism and anti-Colonialism that has predictably gone further exactly like the generalized statements made about the evilness of "white man" by Native American movements or Black liberation movements in US and Africa. Yes, in some instances, it singles out one ethnicity to receive the hate, but it's a natural response to just-as-severe biggotry backed by bigger guns and superior technology on the other side.

Dear Just Curious,

You don't purport to give me an education about the Irgun, do you?  If you don't think I know about it you aren't "curious" about much on this thread and if you do know I know about it you have a LOT of nerve posting that thing you already posted days ago just to get it on top of me, with your little Irgun addition. But anyway, I'll  answer your question since you're so "curious":  .

 You ask why Jews have been so hated throughout the centuries You insist there must be a reason.  This is the answer.  Pay close attention:

THE JEWS ARE HATED BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE ME.  THE JEWS ARE HATED BECAUSE I AM HATEFUL.  I AM A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHY THE JEWS HAVE BEEN HATED ALL THESE CENTURIES.  I AM THE REASON WHY.

Now, just to make sure that that sinks in, go back and read my New Year's post.  And check ALL four video links...

And never forget:  I am the answer to your question.. Happy New Year.

Iranian Jews- darker and auto-dealers. Non-jews have PhD's!

Irgun and the Stern gang, two of the bloodiest terrorist groups, are actually considered the 'fathers' of modern terrorism. They began bombing bazaars and places with a big crowd of Palestinians back in the early 20th century. All were supported by the UK and russian jews wanting to drive Palestinians off the land. But this is just one example.

Throughout history, during almost every century since judaism, jews have been hated by people of every color, every ethnicity and every religion. Why is that? Are millions or billions of people, throughout more than thousands of years, wrong? Or is there something wrong with the jews? All religions have enemies and have their "bad sides." But just sounds like jews have been the "common enemy" for years and years. WHY? And then the question of religion or ethnicity! What is it? Is it a special ethnicity that is a religion? Or a religion that is an ethnicity? I guess they are the special people, when it comes to being in the middle of wars, or being the reason for wars, for thousands of years.

And about the Ethiopian jews going to israel, why aren't they treated equally? Why aren't as attractive financial incentives given to them when they go, as they are given to Iranian jews or, the worst, the russian jews???? And where will all these new jews moving into israel live????????????? Isn't it going to get crowded???? Oh, yes, that's where the continuing settlements and Palestinian refugee camps come into play.

By the way, the author forgot to mention that the Parliament of Iran actually has seats for jewish representatives. Very surprising, isn't it?

And the data on jews from South Africa going to Australia is interesting too. Of course it backs up the old timer thought that jews were running that apartheid state, and yes, they were. With all those diamonds, what do you expect? Israel NEVER stopped its companies from marketing or doing business there, while even we, the US of A, did that. And Australia! Those guys I'm sure are going to start making a fuss in a few years. No doubt that the Australians right now are wondering what the ^&$%&$ these jews are doing here! Even though one of the biggest most powerful jews is, supposedly, an Australian himself, Rupert Murdoch, ceo/chairman of News Corporation that owns Fox and every paper and every website in the world. Jews, jews, jews, jews, jews, jews, jews, jews, jews, jews ........... Catholics (may God Bless us!), Christians, muslims, hindus, zorasterian, and most other religions, hate jews. Jews, jews, jews, jews ... there's just something about them that have created hatred of themselves for thousands and thousands and thousands of years ... and still going.

Zion, the Palestinians were..

in the Holy Land, Azizam, they were the Philistines. As was my uncle Murray when he fought with the Irgun  Please view all four links I provided below. (The first one I took from this thread...)

I'm still working on my reply to your specific questions, it's in a draft but I can't promise you it'll be posted before I respond to other posts. Please be patient.

Happy New Year

Saale Noh Mubarak

Frohes Neues Jahr

 Shanah Tovah

******** 

L'shanah habaah bi Yersushalayim.

Yerushalayim shel Zahav.

Next year in Jerusalem.  Jerusalem of Gold. Talaa.

Jerusalem as I imagine her.  The New Jerusalem.

Zendeh baad Zendegi. (L'chayim).

Amen Rosie,

but I can't help my self here. ;-p
Where were the "palestinians" when these words were written?
(Happy New Year)

Rosie, Happy New Year

Rosie, I continue to be disgusted by the personal attacks against you. I wasn't attacking you directly or indirectly. I was only responding to the foam-in-the-mouth "how dare you tell Israel balaye cheshmet abroo-e" crowd.

For the record I don't agree with the Nazi characterization either, which is why I did not repeat or defended it. However, this is far from the main issue. Most of those who are shocked by this comparison are hypocrites. When Israeli leaders and US media call Iran's leaders "Hitler" and say it's "1938", they don't come out and talk about any "false analogies" do they? Even though that comparison besides being totally flawed, absolutely cheapens the tragedies of the real hitler. So, I do not believe them when they pretend to be offended by Dariush's analogy.

The M.O. of pro-Israel ultra-Zionists are clear. They don't care about antisemetism or bigotry. Their only goal is to control the discourse about Israel. You can use all the false Nazi analogies you want, as long as it fits their political ideology.

That's what's really offensive.

TO ALL ON THIS THREAD. Daryush, Zion, Q, Hamvatan, ALL

As we continue our dialog for the New Year, let us imagine that on this very thread hangs the future of Jerusalem (Qods).  Or Tehran. Or Beirut.  Or Los Angeles.  Or Baghdad.  Let us imagine that on this very thread whether bombs shall be rained on our own children's heads depends.  Whether chemicals shall be unleashed which will peel the skin off of our own mothers and grandmothers. Whether atomic bombs shall make of our homes and markets and streets and parks a new Nagasaki.

Let us imagine the future of humanity hangs by a thread and let us build a New Jerusalem.  On this very thread.

BY THE WATERS OF BABYLON WE SAT AND WEPT

WHEN WE REMEMBERED ZION

THERE ON THE POPLARS WE HUNG OUR HARPS

FOR THERE OUR CAPTORS ASKED US FOR SONGS,

OUR TORMENTORS DEMANDED SONGS OF JOY...

HOW CAN WE SING THE SONGS OF THE LORD WHILE IN A FOREIGN

LAND?

IF I FORGET THEE O JERUSALEM MAY MY RIGHT HAND FORGET ITS ART

MAY MY TONGUE CLING TO THE ROOF OF MY MOUTH IF I DO NOT REMEMBER THEE

IF I DO NOT CONSIDER JERUSALEM MY HIGHEST JOY.

                                                              Psalm 137

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N6Z_IhzBak&feature...

//youtube.com/watch?v=lenIs40ZuUQ

//youtube.com/watch?v=0-nEkR47wDk

//youtube.com/watch?v=8aHFRwGD47M

Ghorbaanetoon beravam (I go as your sacrifice).

Rosie

ROSIE HAPPY....

Happy New Year,Thank you for your article.