www.facebook.com/iransecularii

For continuation of this discussion visit:

//iranian.com/main/blog/david-et-17

David, looks fine. lets go.

I asked a friend in Iran to form a team to distribute as I asked all on my blog and here on yours.

We can always improve incrementally but for this stage and intent it is plenty good. 

Hovakh

Done here. Please verify before is edited on other sites

David, Here is the diff. Mostly verbiage fine tuning

*دولت منتخب مردم، از مردم و برای مردم

* عدم وجود ایدئولوژی رسمی‌ ، مثل دین/مذهب یا عقاید ماورای طبیعی

*تضمین حقوق قانونی‌ و مدنی تمام شهروندان از نظر انسانی‌، سیاسی، اقتصادی، دینی/مذهبی‌، اجتماعی و فرهنگی‌، در چهار چوب  قانون اساسی‌

*برابری کامل در مقابل قانون برابر و در چهار چوب قانون اساسی‌. بیگناه شمرده شدن تا اثبات جرم. غیر قانونی‌ بودن زندانی کردن به جرمهای عقیدتی، سیاسی و وجدانی

*برابری امکانات و حقوق اجتماعی و قانونی‌

*جدایی روحانیون، گروه ها، احزاب و سازمان‌های دینی/مذهبی از ساختار دولت

Hovakh

Will you kindly just post the items that you revised here or via email and I will make the necessary edits. As my plate is really full right now and do not have the time right now to compare the two.

Thanks :-)

Masoud and FR

I changed the word Mazhab to the word Din in few places when I received first parts of translations but still the Persian text is so very incomplete as it states in the introduction. We haven't even posted the full constitution on Iranian.com as the last piece of translations were received today! So as I have mentioned for more than a year, this is a work in progress and especially the Persian version. So all constructive critisms are welcomed.

I shall look in to this issue but I presume if the word Deen is used, it automatically includes mazahab too. But as Hovakh mentioned they are used in place of each other often also.

The good thing is that we have preamble and also the text in English which will show the intent.

Finally, the document is not one line but hundreds of lines and each compliment each other and as a whole I believe it does show its intent especially that it starts with title and article one of being secular which has a very specific agreed upon definition politically.

David please check against 'call to action' and refine

I had cleaned up some wording.

FR, seems you did not take David's response to heart

on my blog when you made similar irrelevant comment.

I can assure you David, myself, and many who have contributed to this work are at least as versed as you. Never mind more commited and putting our money where our mouths are.

Mazhab/Din are often used interchangeably in Farsi. In the full text of constitution, my version and David's they are also used properly and convey the meaning and intent. And when time comes to writing the real preamble and full constitution a full army of lawyers and linguists will go at it. Meanwhile, the education goes on and if you can't help distribute (and make the correction before you send), no need to disparage. Show some respect for timing, context and intent.

As the old joke goes, if you want to piss here anyway, no need to ask if we sell kerosene.

دیوید عزیز

انطور که من از نوشته شما برداشت می کنم، منظور شما:

یک رژیمی است که دین و مذهب، به طور کامل، از حکومت و سیاست جدا می باشند!

لطف کنید، و این موضوع را برای دوستان به طور کامل واضح کنید ... ممنون!

اشتباه بنیادی

واضح است که دوستان تفاوت میان دین و مذهب را نمیدانند. دین یعنی اسلام و مذهب یعنی شیعه یا سنی. همه جا می‌گویند جدایی دین از حکومت، مذهب جز میباشد و دین کلّ. این گونه که شما نوشته آید معنی آن اینست که دین رسمی‌ کشور می‌‌تواند اسلام باشد یا بهایی یا زرتشتی ولی‌ شیعه نمی‌‌تواند باشد!!

Dear Mehrban

Great question and I know Hovakhshatreh brought it up too and I have just been to busy with all this to address everyone ...

I understand about "today's priorities" but there is one priority that we may me missing. We have IR in front of us with all its propaganda machine from TV, Radio, Newspapers, Mosques, Internet, etc shouting that opposition is channeled by foreigners , US, UK, Israel etc etc and with all some of its borderline supporters are being confused.

Therefore it is always important to first and foremost state that we are Iranians , want Iran's territorial integrity etc.

Also the fact that peace with the rest of the word is mentioned on top goes at the heart of the IR's policy which always tries to distract the public from internal affairs by creating and promoting war and conflict with the other nations and by showing that we promote peace inside and outside again we are taking away another tool of IR's propaganda machine's.

In other word before we say what we want and stand for , we must first set some background and then state that our goal is within that background that we are Iranian, not separationists, foreigner etc etc etc. Having those at the end only gives reason to IR that territorial integrity etc is not our priority

Strategically it is first and foremost disarming the enemy before making our advance. Also it goes in line with the format of proposed preamble and constitution.

and also remember we are taking the flag of Esteghlah, azadi, jomhouri eslami out of their hand and substituting it with esteghlal , azadi, jomhouri Irani, something that people are already familiar with and even have shouted in the streets... 

 At the end all demands are made together and inseparable.

That's my 2 cents :-)

David jaan

Is there a reason that you have moved items 3&5 from being 1&2.  

It seems to me that Item 3 deserves to stay at the top of the list and maybe item 5 to follow it.  Sorry, I know I am being a Monday morning quarterback.

done

.

لطفا از فامیل، دوستان یا فعالان اشنا در ایران بپرسید که یک تیم

تشکیل دهند و این متن را در سراسر ایران به طور فعال پخش کنند. آموزش و هماهنگی‌ خواستهای ملی‌ ما وظیفه ملی‌ هر یک ماست. این مبارزه برای ۲۲ بهمن و چارشنبه سوری فقط نیست. این راه و پروسه‌ای ایستکه طی‌ آن همهٔ ما را آموزش میدهد که ایرانی‌ بهتر بسازیم

دولت اسلامی خواهد رفت. شاید فردا، شاید یک سال دیگر. ولی‌ خواهد رفت. پخش خواستهای منطقی‌ و سکولار مردم ایران را که در این متن خلاصه شده باعث میشود که مردم با آنچه خود میخواهند به طور کتابی‌ و نوشته شده اشنا شوند. این آموزش مدنی و ملی‌ کمک خواهد کرد که درخواستهای مردم ایران در سطح کشور هماهنگ شود. این خود کمک خواهد کرد که دشمنان داخلی‌ و خارجی‌، مثل ۷۹ نتوانند خواستها و ارادهٔ مردم ایران را به راه کج ببرند و به چاهی دیگر رهنمون کنند.

درود به آنانی‌ که در این لحظات سرنوشت ساز ایران بیدارند