www.facebook.com/iransecularii

Mammad also:

you wrote: " there are also secular republicans, secular leftists, secular Muslims, etc. The writings by such people never get reflected in your blog. "

I have had writings by variety of views. In fact I am a republican and not monarchist.

If you provide me some of the websites, blogs or links to those that you think should have more coverage please list so I can use them. I would very much appreciate that.

Here are only some of the sources I regularly check :

balatarin, Khodnevis

بنیاد سیمای آزادی اندیشه و بیان

سازمان خودرهاگران

 حقوقدانان جنبش سبز مردم ایران

 سکولاريسم نو

سکولارهای سبز ايران

ندای آزادی

هراز

ژورنالیست

شکوه ميرزادگی

 ایران لیبرال

 مجنون

اتحاد جمهوریخواهان ايران

جبهه ملی ایران

اندیشه

تغيير برای برابری

         سایت آیت الله بروجردی

روز

 ایرانیان

حزب مشروطه ایران

جمهوری خواهی

جبهه دمکراتیک ایران 

حزب مرز پرگهر

حزب دمکرات کردستان ایران
جنبش آذربایجان برای دموکراسی و یکپارچگی ایران

آزادی و برابری جنسیتی در ایران

کارزار تدارک دادگاه رسیدگی به کشتار زندانیان سیاسی

کانون همبستگی ملت ایران برای براندازی جمهوری اسلامی

which are all listed here: //iransecular.org/LinksP.aspx

Dear Mammad

First I thank you for caring and paying attention to the blogs.

I really do not pay attention to who the writer is as much as I pay attention to what the message is. It really does not matter to me if the person is religious , socialist, monarchist, republican etc but if they are offering any new thoughts, ideas, solutions, means even small ones to get us closer to a common goal.

Unfortunately often in the articles of some religious people who claim to be secular, I see collusion of facts , repacking the old ideas and most importantly at the end trying to sell another version of a religious government (or so called moderate or democratic one) . Therefore since I this is not a news organization, I can not with good conscious post their articles and in fact often I end up posting those who show the truth about those who yesterday were selling their ideas using religion and today selling the same ones dressed as secularism.

and then there are some articles that even factual offer nothing new but just a so called analysis of what we already know. For example the recent article on Iranin.com //iranian.com/main/2010/sep by Dr. Bagherzadeh with all due respect served no purpose expect Tekran mokararat and pages of internet, media , etc are filled with those...

I want solutions, suggestions, or at least raising awareness not just analysis for the sake of saying somthing or plain emotions, words that gets us one step closer to a free and democratic future.

But at the same time I do not have the time or capacity to read everything and therefore I have asked others to email me articles that they seem fit to be posted here or on //iransecular.blog.com ( email to info@iransecular.org)

As for your 2nd point, unlike many seculars I am against any religious leader or group having an official role in the branches of a secular government. I have discussed this in detail many times while drafting the secular constitution and in summary I believe if a political organization which puts spreading religion in its fundamentals joins the government , it will either cheat its own party's principles or will cheat the principles of secularism and either way can not remain honest.

An individual can be religious or believe in God and be secular but if they as a group form a part that in nature is to be religious obviously their goal is to spread their religion which is in contrast with secularism. The same applies to an ayatollah and alike.

Article 8

Secular government of Iran observes no official religions for the country. Secular in nature, everyone in Iran is treated the same, regardless of their religion or lack of it. All religions within the limits of the law and without limiting or violating the guaranteed individual and human rights within the constitution are free to perform their religious rights, and to act according to their own canon in matters of personal affairs. The individual and human rights as guaranteed by the constitution shall always prevail and take precedence over religious and ideological preferences and beliefs.  

and your final point:

Unlike many in the two extremes ( the religious and the anti-religious), I do not mix people's belief in a religion with their belief in forcing that religion upon others in the form a government.

Majority of people of the world are secular, Iran included and especially nations such as Iranians having lived in a multi cultural, lingual, racial society and within empires of one sort to another , are much used to living with one another in peace despite the divisions that often were created among them by the religious or political authorities.

I have seen and experience this among people (and I do not mean those in the cities) in Urumieh, Kurdistan, Khuzestan, Fars, Isfahan, Tabriz, Gilan, Lorestan and Tehran.

Islamic Republic since its inception to present days has attempted to divide Iranians (even to the family core) by any means possible (divide and conquer) and that is why today we have been lead to believe that we are so ideologically, religiously, geographically, politically divided when if fact what we have in common way supersedes what divides us.

Those who think we are not secular , either are against secularism or do not understand it.

Some are either against religion and want to use secularism as a tool to fight religion (which secularism is not) or are fanatics who think secularism is against religion (which again secularism is not)

Secularism is the only guaranteed path to assure the freedom to chose and practice what we want without forcing it upon others or being forced .

I do not agree with you David

As I said the other day, I read you blog and it is useful. But let me point out a couple of points here, without meaning to start a big debate, because then the usual suspects jump in and change the subject:

1. Look at what you have posted: Two of them are by certified monarchists. One - Boghraat - often rants, instead of writing something useful. The other - Nojoomi - sees everything from a very narrow angle of a Shahollahi. Aside from the fact, in my opinion, that the monarchists - all of them - make a small minority, there are also secular republicans, secular leftists, secular Muslims, etc. The writings by such people never get reflected in your blog. Perhaps, that is why the blog never starts a good debate in which a lot of people take part - which should be the goal of any good blog.

The other two seem to be in the blog just to give the impression that everyone else thinks like them. That is not true.

This is important for the following reason. I am a practicing Muslim, but secular. I believe that for the sake of Iran and my religion, religion and governance must be totally separated. There are many people like me. But, there are many issues that are far more complex than the black and white that you always seem to present.

One, for example, is, suppose that religion and governance are separated. Does that mean that religious people cannot form their own political parties and be active in politics? Remember that Christian Democratic Parties - parties that have their roots in religion - are powerful in Western Europe and south America; they are in fact in power in many countries.Remember that even in the US the evangelical Christians have political action committees, influence the Republican Party, force schools to teach "intelligent design" and doubt evolution, support invasion of Iraq, etc.

Another is, what would happen to religious traditions, laws, etc., that have permeated the society over a long time?

Such issues do not disappear, or can be addressed, in a blink of an eye.

If you want your blog to be really useful, rather than having the usual suspects say "bah bah" and "chah chah," then in my opinion you need to make it broader. In my opinion, you need to be much more inclusive in what you post.

2. Unlike what you say, the majority of Iranians are not secular. Your mistake and people like you is that you think that anybody who opposes the IRI is a secular. That cannot be farther from the truth. The reasons for opposing the ruling elite vary. They depend on where one lives in Iran, what one's economic class is, what one's level education is, etc. I am not saying that there are not a large number of seculars in Iran. There are. But, they do not even come close to being in the majority. 

The first principle of becoming a viable political force is to be realistic, knowing your weaknesses and strengths, not exaggerating your strength, and downplaying your weaknesses. You and I have had our friction in the past, but I come to this website to read, to debate, to teach - if I can - and to learn.

Mammad

Dear David, your blog was good. Your comment is great too.

Dear David, I like your comment. I think that you should blog it if you have never written a similar blog. You mention many important ideas in your comment which I agree with,some of them are:

1.  "For too long due to.., seculars, instead of
forming their own effective leadership, have tactically supported
promise of others only to later become the first victims of false
promises."

2. " largest Jewish population for years lived in Iran peacefully just as
Armenians in North and South and even Baha'i's when not interfered by
Government."

3. "We were secular before "secularism"."

Thanks for your blog and also your comment.

Dear Anahid

Indeed. For too long due to liberal nature of many seculars, instead of forming their own effective leadership, have tactically supported promise of others only to later become the first victims of false promises.

1979 revolution, khatami's presidency and also the events of past year are only few examples of it.

Indeed seculars must support the human rights of everyone and form coalitions when needed but should also learn to withhold their principals and most importantly form their own unified coalitions and leaderships, otherwise forever will remain in the shadow of ideological and religious others or become tools for bringing them to power only before being pushed out of the scene or denied . 

Majority of Iranians are in fact secular and democrat regardless of their religion or where they live. This has been an Iranian trait for more than 2500 years inherited from living within an empire from many races and nations and religions for so long.

It has been the ones in power (such as Arabs , safavid's, IR, etc) and mullahs who tried to make religion the dividing factor among Iranians. For example, end largest Jewish population for years lived in Iran peacefully just as Armenians in North and South and even Baha'i's when not interfered by Government. The same applies to Zoroastrians, Hindus etc.

Iranians in fact are very open (and Mehmannavaz) to others. The fanatism has always been forced on us by mullahs and once and for all we must stand for our own principles of freedom, secularism and equality , principles that we believed in since 1000's of years ago.

We were secular before "secularism". Only a look at first article of human rights by Cyrus the great proves that.

Dear David ET, thanks for a great blog

Dear David, thanks for your blog. I especially like the items about the father who realized Secularism is not bad once he knew its meaning and also about not saying "Allaho Akbar". I believe those who are not religious should not resort to "God is great" slogans, since later the fact that so many people said this slogan will be used and abused to claim Islamic nature of a movement.  Thanks for sharing. 

جنبشی باید داشت

بی صدای الله اکبر

در دل شب  از نا مسلمان

هموطن , اکنون یاد آور

چگونه به نامِ دین

هزاران کشتند

یا کردند فراری

یا فکندند در بند

نمی خواهم دگر دین 

در بسترِ سیاست

فرزند آن عشق بازی

پاسداری خواهد بود

یا بسیجی

حجت الاسلامی

به سرعت گشته آیت اللهی

تا کند وقیحانه جنایت به اسم ِ ولایت

نمی خواهم  دین  را در بسترِ سیاست