Camp Ashraf: Iraq's war heroes deserve better treatment

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Camp Ashraf: Iraq's war heroes deserve better treatment
by David ET
31-Jul-2009
 

There are so many unknowns about Camp Ashraf situation and is not easy to determine who is the real cause the recent escalations .

First and foremost any killing and violation of human rights of anyone including those within Camp Ashraf are absolutely unjustified. Whether recently by Iraqi Government or through the years by the MEK cult leaders. But question remains why the residents resisted. The control of Camp Ashraf was turned to Iraqi's by US with the condition that the residents will not be forced to return to Iran and Iraqi government has not stated such intention either. 

Based on the information available so far these are the ones ultimately responsible for the unfortunate situation in Camp Ahsraf :

1 - Islamic Regime for creating an atmosphere of intolerance and oppression ever since the early years of its inception instead of democratic opportunities for freedom of expression , assembly and political parties which lead to extremism by some of the opposition including Mujahedeen Khalgh and also for their constant pressure on Iraq government to hand in the MEK members.

2 - Leaders of The Mujahedeen Khalgh Cult for having brought their followers to Iraq, for their cult like leadership and treatments of the camp residents and also for recent encouragement of the camp residents to resist control by Iraqi's

3 - Those camp residents who entered the foreign soil to fight with Iran, treasonous to their own nation during the Iraq-Iran war which led to their current misfortunate destiny. 

4- Saddam Hossein for allowing these people on Iraqi soil

5- United Nations for not effectively addressing the fate of the Camp Ashraf residents

6- Iraqi government for any use of violence against unarmed people

 It should be stated that these people have lived in Iraq for more than 20 years and most of them were officially allowed in by Iraqi government and therefore first and foremost they do remain as responsibility of Iraqi government . At the same time they live on Iraqi soil and it is absolutely irresponsible of MEK leaders to insist on not allowing Iraqi's to be in charge of part of their own territory. They had known of this legal right of the host country since the day they chose to enter Iraq to fight their own.

Regardless of what has lead to the current situation

1- United Nations must immediately take a more active role (without involvement of MEK leaders) 

2- They should not be forced to go to Iran except by their own wish 

3- They should individually or in groups be allowed to go to any country that they are allowed in to.  Legal facilitations must be made for the individuals who wish to obtain foreign visas subject to approval of the new host country.

4- They should also individually and privately be offered residence in Iraq away from the cult if they so desire. They should be offered refuge or permanent resident status by Iraqi government. After all they helped Iraqi army in their war with Iran, especially during the 2nd phase of war when Khomeini had become the attacker with the goal of reaching Karbala. In a way some are Iraq's war heroes!

5- THE INDIVIDUALS SHOULD BE PROVIDED FULL ACCESS TO OUTSIDE WORLD COMMUNICATIONS AND AWAY FROM WATCHFUL EYES OF CULT LEADERS IF THEY DESIRE AND TO BE ASSURED THAT THEY ARE NOT UNDER ANY PRESSURE OR UNDUE INFLUENCE FROM CULT LEADERS.

6- The causes of recent deaths and escalations should be reviewed and addressed according to the law and those responsible should be brought to justice. 

7- MOST IMPORTANTLY, IRAQI GOVERNMENT AND UN MUST CEASE ANY NEGOTIATION WITH LEADERS OF MEK AND TREAT EACH CULT MEMBER INDIVIDUALLY, CONFIDENTIALLY AND BASED ON THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL WISHES AND NEEDS 

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more from David ET
 
Farah Rusta

So Rosie! You and I have "some" common views :)

by Farah Rusta on

Something to celebrate for sure.

David ET, remains a sticky issue though. More on this later ...

 

FR


rosie is roxy is roshan

Farah,

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

The UN must be alerted to the potential risk of their annihilation in the hands of the IRI forces or their mercenaries in Iraq and other countries that have dealings with the Islamic regime.

Yes, the UN must take a very active role. Yes, they are at grave risk. Yes, the worst possible scenario would be either to:

a) deliver them to IRI, especially now, when one of the main agendas of the show trials is to link Green Movement activists with MKO. That is why I also said below that Camp Ashraf residents should be strongly discouraged from returning to Iran. They have been out in the desert too long and sunstroke may have blinded them to the fact that returning to IR, especially at this time, is a terrible idea.

or b) leave them at the mercy of certain Iraqi elements. That is part of the reason why I don't think it's a good idea to keep the camp exisitng with them there (now unarmed) regardless of who is nominally in charge. It isn't just because I believe it will open up a geopolitical diplomatic nightmare scenario.

The human rights campaigners should show their true metal by lobbying the UN to protect these people as a matter of urgency. This is the litmus test for such human rights vocalists like Ebadi, Ganji and Chomsky.  

Yes. That is why it is such a relief to me that the community here at iranian.com has matured to such a point that the people on this thread are all concerned about the rank and file at Ashraf as a human rights issue, rather than using the thread for the majority to heap hatred and ill wishes upon them, especially the rank and file, as would've happened two years ago for sure. It is also the reason why I started off by congratulating David on writing this blog. I should've done the same on yours, but I hadn't seen your blog when I wrote here. The three high-profile people you just named should follow suit.

I do not have any idea, however, what, if any, those people's specific stance on Ashraf has been.

Calling for putting on trial of the MKO leaders at this point will not help their plight.

Agree. That is why I initially only questioned the people who recommended it here on their strategy for implementing it. Had they continued with this strand of the thread, I would've brought that up.  I had been hoping to begin by convincing them of the practical unfeasiblilty of such a plan. Therefore, my last questionon the topic: But who would hold them in the meantime?-since they should not be delievered to the current IR regime. There is no international body which possesses this authority except the Hague, and I hardly think they would do it. When you are talking about two million Darfurians versus these crimes committed in the past, it is highly unlikely.

However, the need for not calling for their trial at this time should underscore my concern that they be expatriated to as many different countries as possible with provisional status as 'stateless' so that they cannot travel beyond those borders (EU being considered as one 'country'); since there will be probably a tendency for at least some of them to want to regroup.

There are far better candidates to appear in the dock from the ranks of the IRI ex- and present rulers and their henchmen.

Right now it would be an exercise in futility to attempt to strategize how that could happen or who it would target, since accomplishing this end would only be possible through a US-led invasion of Iran, which is something I categorically oppose.

However, should the current situation lead to major violence (rivers of blood in the streets...), which I hope it doesn't, I would support a UN-led coaltion peacekeeping force to enter, which would open the way to several possible scenarios which I feel it is premature to consider. And hope will never become necessary.

 


Farah Rusta

IRNA: Camp Ashraf must be evacuated within a month

by Farah Rusta on

You may have heard this piece of news that was broadcast on the Iranian state TV (International channel) earlier today. In the meantime the IRI-fed mercenary leader of Iraq, Nouri Al-Maleki, keeps the pressure on the camp residents by intimidating/killing/injuring them on a daily basis. 

 

Rosie, if I am not mistaken you agree that will power is the missing factor on the part of the leaders of the democratic nations to intervene. I guess they may show their will in an opposite direction by turning a blind eye on the imminent plight of the Ashraf residents.

The Ashraf residents are effectively a community of refugees from Iran. But unlike their Palestinian counter parts in countries like Lebanon, they are unarmed and practically defenseless. The UN must be alerted to the potential risk of their annihilation in the hands of the IRI forces or their mercenaries in Iraq and other countries that have dealings with the Islamic regime. The human rights campaigners should show their true metal by lobbying the UN to protect these people as a matter of urgency. This is the litmus test for such human rights vocalists like Ebadi, Ganji and Chomsky.  

Calling for putting on trial of the MKO leaders at this point will not help their plight. There are far better candidates to appear in the dock from the ranks of the IRI ex- and present rulers and their henchmen.

 

FR


Farah Rusta

کاپیتان عزیز

Farah Rusta


کاپیتان عزیز

غرض بهانه‌ای بود برای تجدید ارادت وگرنه زبونم لال قصد جسارت نداشتم.
قربون شما

فرح


rosie is roxy is roshan

Okay, good,

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

so who would hold them in the meantime?


capt_ayhab

Rosie

by capt_ayhab on

Absolutely not by IR. Perhaps by the people of Iran once this regime is toppled, with observation of international judiciary body, i.e Hague, everyone deserve a fair day in court, no matter the crime.

Him, his wife and entire leading elite of MKO for betraying Iranians and their own followers[namely 3,500 residents of Camp Ashraf].

 

-YT 


rosie is roxy is roshan

But Captain, Ostaad..who would try them?

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

1. Rajavi and entire  leading group MUST be put on trial for the charges of high treason. Preferably court marshal

Surely not IRI with the current government in place. You can't be serious. You just can't.

Can you?


Ostaad

Cap, ditto and I'd like to add...

by Ostaad on

All MKO funds controlled by the Bonnie-and-Clyde type criminal gang of Rajavi and Banou in EU and elsewhere must be confiscated and used to move and house the hapless MKO rank and files people in the countries that have been used them as human condoms.


rosie is roxy is roshan

But upon further analyzing your points, Farah,

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

You quoted David:

Iraq is a sovereign nation and can not be expected by others to have a self-autonomous camp within its territory !!"

You wrote: Really? If you had bothered to educate yourself, to use your own words, a little more on this issue, you would have found that there are at least three sovereign countries, namely Lebanon, Jordan and Syria in that vicinity that have allowed self-ruling Palestinian camps to run on their soil. So unless you come up with another of your made up rulings there is nothing to stop the UN from making the same arrangement with the so-called sovereign Iraqi government to accommodate the MKO within Ahsraf. Nothing except a will power.

-----------------

That is the whole point, Farah. The operant words are bolded by me. David didn't say it isn't possible, but that they can't be EXPECTED to. They obviously do not WANT it. They would have to be severely pressured by what you call 'will power' of the world-community so-called I guess you mean US-which they will NOT appreciate.

The Iraqi government wants to disocciate itself as much as possible from Saddam's legacy; proclaim full intention to the US government to achieve and keep autonomy, and improve diplomatic and economic ties with Iran.

For these three reasons, they will at very least "not appreciate" a UN-designated autonomous MKO island within the Iraqi borders. That's why they just invaded the camp. To make that small point.

If you had the power to implement, or try to implement, this plan, impose this 'will' (the will of the wiki witch of the west???) on Iraq, you would soon see a chain of diplomatic disasters that would backfire in the end on your own agenda by strengthening IR's hand.

And anyway it would still be far from the safest choice for people who are in Ashraf now.

 


rosie is roxy is roshan

A great triumph for peace and democracy...

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

David and Ayhab have now been equated in the eyes of Farah Rusta!

There is hope for the Green movment.

__________________

Farah, after your having written the following in your first post and my respectfully having stepped back, I will now step forward for a moment:

 I really don't want this comment to turn into another tit-for-tat exercise between me and Daid ET

 oh, no, of course you don't. Heavens have mercy.

and, God forbid, moderated by Rosie!

agree. Would be a Sysephean task.

_____________________

But  to the other people here. People are able to focus on the specific human rights aspect without getting their eyes clouded by the loaded history. . It never could've happened here two years ago, no matter what was going on in IR.

It really is progress here. 

__________

David, the bitter IRONY (not sarcasm) of the term 'Iraq's war heroes' drives home the tragic (or tragicomic) history of the situation up to today. Which is just one small mirror of the entire tragicomedy of the Revolution and its aftermath in all its painfulness AND absurdity. It cuts to the chase. It is necessary.

Good one.


capt_ayhab

فرح

capt_ayhab


فرح تو که بازم داری غیبت میکنی‌ دختر. اجیل آوردی امروز؟

-YT 


capt_ayhab

.

by capt_ayhab on

1. Rajavi and entire  leading group MUST be put on trial for the charges of high treason. Preferably court marshal.

2. Resident of Camp Ashraf MUST be given full pardon and guaranteed safe passage to any where they wish to go .

3. Rajavi not to be allowed to dye his hair[wig] anymore, and the sward should be shoved where sun does not shine. ;-)

-YT 


Farah Rusta

More self defeating excuses from Mr ET

by Farah Rusta on

Here we go again:

" By war standards such acts , by those who "placed their most precious
assets on offer - their lives, " would be considered heroic to a nation."

The MKO members were putting their lives on offer long before Iran-Iraq war - when you hardly knew who they were Mr ET. In that war, they didn't die for Saddam and the people of Iraq but for their goal of freeing their motherland from the grips of the Islamic regime. The very regime that they had helped installed a couple of years earlier.

" ... those who joined one of the worst human right violators against their own nation." and later " Even Nazi's after WWII had human rights but that does not mean that the
world should have closed its eyes to who the leaders were and what they
did
.
"

It is sad (not funny really) that you should talk in such accusatory tone about those who side with the violators of human rights and ask the world to keep their eyes open and not to let these people to escape justice. It is sad because you, Mr ET voted for one such criminal, encouraged others to do so and asked people to close their eyes on his complicity in state authorized crimes. I am talking about Mir Hossein Mousavi, the prime minister who presided over one of the worst, if not the worst, periods of human rights violation including the state authorized genocide commited against the MKO inmates.

"Iraq is a sovereign nation and can not be expected by others to have a self-autonomous camp within its territory !!" Really? If you had bothered to educate yourself, to use your own words, a little more on this issue, you would have found that there are at least three sovereign countries, namely Lebanon, Jordan and Syria in that vicinity that have allowed self-ruling Palestinian camps to run on their soil. So unless you come up with another of your made up rulings there is nothing to stop the UN from making the same arrangement with the so-called sovereign Iraqi government to accommodate the MKO within Ahsraf. Nothing except a will power.

Finally, I can see that like my good friend Capt-ayhab, you are a Wiki-expert too and enjoy copying and pasting material from your favorite knowledge source. But had you thought a little laterally you'd have noticed that according to your Wiki-copied knowledge, the communist parties of China, North Korea and if you prefer the Nazi party of Germany should have been labelled as cults too! Not to mention the Shiite religion and particularly its current adherents in the Islamic regime of Iran. But your current hate object is not the islamic regime but their oppenents meaning the MKO.

Sometimes keeping quiet about things you are not so sure about serves you better Mr ET.

FR


Hamid Y. Javanbakht

Contraversy and Contradiction

by Hamid Y. Javanbakht on

They believe that 2 million+ MEK supporters are still in Iran.


David ET

No sarcasm here

by David ET on

 FYI I was NOT being sarcastic when I called them Iraqi war heroes

It is a known fact that MEK provided intelligence information to Iraq and fought against Iran. Part of this period Iraq was actually was being invaded by Khomeini's order and that intelligence information and having Iranians help Iraqis was helpful for them.

By war standards such acts , by those who "placed their most precious assets on offer - their lives, " would be considered heroic to a nation.

In fact MEK leaders had agreed to help Saddam win the war and in return Saddam after winning to let them rule Iran as a friendly regime. A plan that thankfully was misclaculated by those who joined one of the worst human right violators against their own nation. 

Even Nazi's after WWII had human rights but that does not mean that the world should have closed its eyes to who the leaders were and what they did. 

Your hush hush approach is exactly what MEK wants. MEK should leave these souls alone now that they lost their youth helping Rajavi's and company. 

This may have sounded sarcastic to you because you may not believe that but for those who do is plain facts.

Iraq is a sovereign nation and can not be expected by others to have a self-autonomous camp within its territory !! If they want to live in Iraq , they should realize that their leaders from Europe and elsewhere can not determine how things are being run inside a sovereign nation.

The MEK leadership by asking these people not to allow Iraqi's inside a camp in their own country are trying to attract attention at the cost of suffering and death of their own followers . What MEK is doing is against all international standards.

The best human rights effort that can be done for these people is to help them individually and not via  cult leaders. In time once exposed to outside society without the fear and assimilation of their watchdogs many may be un-conditioned hopefully and able to lead a normal life.

As for calling them a cult, you may wish to educate yourself about the definition of a cult. People who dress like their leaders, all men wear mustaches,  all women wear same style clothing, do not marry, have no kids, all think alike and all are assimilated and are so much a-liked meet most of the definitions  and not only one :

1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

3. the object of such devotion.

4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

7. the members of such a religion or sect.


rosie is roxy is roshan

I don't think it's a good idea for Camp Ashraf to be

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

declared a UN-protected enclave within Iraq because Iraq is trying very hard against all odds to establish and maintain autonomy and I believe this would be greatly resented by the Iraqi government and make for very thorny diplomatic relationships on many fronts. In theory it's a good idea but in practice, no.

As for David being sarcastic, that wasn't my impression, but I won't go any further than saying that.


Farah Rusta

Your sarcasm is out of place

by Farah Rusta on

I really don't want this comment to turn into another tit-for-tat exercise between me and Daid ET and, God forbid, moderated by Rosie! But with such remarks as "heros of the Iraqi war" or insisting on the MKO being a cult (an unhelpful and biased attitude at this point) one should wonder if ET is meaning well, not to mention his usual unclear and convoluted solutions.

To start with, the IRI's oppression an intolerance did not start in the early years of its existence as you suggest. It started even before it its inception. So please do not try to water down IRI's hard earned achievemnts in their abuse of human rights (some in collusion with the MKO).

Some of the causes that you have listed are closely linked with each other if not being the same. Also your solution of repatriating or relocating the MKo members needs huge funding and manpower - something you obviously take for granted. You also seem to have a very simplistic view of how and why these people joined the MKO. I can tell you that they didn't do it by campaigning from behind their laptops. They have placed their most precious assets on offer - their lives, 

Camp Ashraf should be declared as a UN-protetced enclave and its resident given the right to run their own lives however they wish. The rest is for them to decide.

FR


Ari Siletz

Thanks David ET

by Ari Siletz on

This human rights issue needs immediate attention. There are about 3400 in camp Ashraf, and the situation isn't simple. The 250 that have returned to Iran are being called "quitters" by those who have stayed behind. It is not clear whether the rest will agree to go anywhere else because it seems they wish to maintain an MKO stronghold, despite the changes in the political situation vis a vis US and Iran. (The links are from the Christian Science Monitor)

rosie is roxy is roshan

Khar,

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

no one can guarantee ANYONE's safety in Iran these days, not even the son of one of Rezaie's top aides!

These people should be discouraged strongly from returning to Iran--but if it is their wish to do so, they should be allowed.

IRI press said a couple of days ago they might try to regroup in Pakistan. Most of what IRI says about them is probably propaganda, but the fact is they ARE a cult and many of them will probably want to regroup. Perhaps it would be best for them to go to countries of their choice which will have them, making sure no more than a certain number go to any one, so they cannot regroup-and further that they not be allowed to travel beyond the borders of the country where they reside, so they could regroup. This could be done by granting stateless status which allows (at least in the US) for work permits but not for travel outside the country. Remember, even most of Europe is basically one country now for traveling and work purposes, it is not like they will be restricted to some place the size of Singapore. And it would only have to be for a certain time. Like David said, on a case by case basis--and with periodic review.


rosie is roxy is roshan

Congratualations

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

on touching on one the touchiest and most potentially incendiary of all topics on this website historically- in accordance with your own convictions about human rights. As you have often told others to do--when you were fighting for human rights in Iran, trying to organize a general strike, and examing the IR Constitution carefully-way before there was a Green movement (and for which you then received no small share of abuse and now little acknowledgment)...

you don't just talk the talk. You walk the walk.

_____________________

My opinion: most of your points are right on. .. .

And to send ANYONE back to the Islamic Republic forcibly, under the current conditions--especially these people from Ashraf when  innocent people are being raped and killed in prison, WHILE THEIR LEADERS HAVE BEEN LEGALLY CHARGED OF BEING AFFILIATED WITH THE MKO (trials beginning tomorrow) is... 

unwise.


Khar

Here's My Suggestion

by Khar on

There should be a UN/Red cross/Amnesty International sponsored amnesty, pardon for the MKO rank and file members and allow them to go where ever they choose to go to, either a 3 country or even back to Iran and if they choose to back to Iran UN should guaranty and monitor their safety. With the current events unfolding in Iran this maybe easier said than done. On the other hand international court should bring up a case against Rajavis for the crimes they have committed the same as IRI leadership. Will this happen now I have my doubt. But will it happen one day, we can hope!