Ebadi for separation of religion from state

David ET
by David ET
21-May-2008
 

After receiving of the nobel prize in 2003 and while the spotlights of the world were on her, Shirin Ebadi spent much of that valuable time promoting the possibility of a democratic government within an Islamic system. Her idea was not necessarily rooted in her approval of the ruling regime but in her religious beliefs. At the time Ebadi like many revisionists still believed in the lip services of likes of president Khatami and the Co.

5 years later and after another failure of the revisionist movement which lead to the full take over of the office of the presidency and the parliament by the fundamentalists, Ebadi's position has evolved and she now clearly stands for a secular democracy and suggests the separation of the religion from the state: Watch her latest interview with the Voice of America (minute 58) 

However as I stated in my last week's article, Mrs. Ebadi still needs to make the next leap of reality check that the current system and regime will never voluntarily reform and planting such expectations in the minds of the so many Iranian who look up to likes of Shirin Ebadi will only lengthen the rule of the current rulers of Iran. 

Such false presumption may also be deeply rooted in Ebadi's lack of clarity due to cloud of the religious dogmas that still surround her. One can only hope that Mrs. Ebadi will soon come to this realization also.  

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more from David ET
 
samsam1111

MRX : Least worded, truthfully presented

by samsam1111 on Fri May 23, 2008 06:43 PM PDT

couldn,t have said it better myself


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default

ebadi missed the boat

by MRX1 (not verified) on Thu May 22, 2008 12:56 PM PDT

long time a go. There was a time that the whole eyes and ears of the world was on her. During that time she could have said anything, do anything and make a real difference. The regime wouldn't have dared touching her. Instead she talked about Guantanamo, PLO and so on. Then she spent the rest of her time throwing seminars in U.S and Canada. Now her 15 minutes of fame has passed and you need a combine force of BBC,CCN, FOX and Aljazeera to resurect her!


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n.zanincanadai

David E Kelly ya i'm talkin

by n.zanincanadai on Thu May 22, 2008 09:50 AM PDT

David E Kelly ya i'm talkin to you. I love your shows man...keep em coming. Do you do Law and Order too? THE BEST I tell ya :)


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David ET

I understand your point Ben

by David ET on Thu May 22, 2008 09:13 AM PDT

In an email to a friend who had same concern as you I wrote:  How do we know what to do or what we are doing wrong if we do not discuss it? Just crying how bad this government is , will not get us anywhere, it hasn’t for 30 years and won't for another 30....

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Ben Madadi

Re: David

by Ben Madadi on Thu May 22, 2008 08:12 AM PDT

You know that I would agree with this. I have also taken on myself the burden of being constantly attacked, or hated, because of a critical view of Iran's history, and its present conditions. And how it has been viewed ;)

But I am unable to criticise Mrs Ebadi because if I put myself in her shoes I fail to do as much as her :) I fail to reach to her level of courage even though she's a woman (now let's have some 'feminists' telling my WHAT THE HECK?!). She is a brave woman. I can't criticise her. Okay, I can criticise Iranians who are outside Iran. Anyway, I guess you understand what I mean. I am unable to fill her shoes so I can't criticise her :)

Regards, Ben


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David ET

Dear Ben:

by David ET on Thu May 22, 2008 07:40 AM PDT

If we don't self-critique who will?

That is the problem we Iranians have. We do not welcome criticism. We have heard too much "marg bar" or "zendeh bad" and immediately paint any constructive criticism with black or white colors. We must learn to accept and practice democracy on a personal level before we can achieve it as a nation. If you actually watch the VOA interview, in few occasions Ebadi herself says that she welcomes critique and has no problem with it.

We have shown the animosities of the regime so many times and most Iranians are already aware of how bad the regime is (except those who CHOSE to be blind to it). But what we need are honest, blunt discussions about where to go from here. What have we been doing wrong and why we are still stuck where we are.

In the business world until a company which is failing does not recognize its flaws and does something about it, it will never improve. Same applies in politics and faith of a nation.We should welcome and encourage open discussions among ourselves. We seem to try to avoid the real issue of today by repeating the discussion of Shah’s era. Mossadegh, 2500 years history, Islamic history but when it comes to the present tense we simply show what is wrong with the regime but avoid an honest look at ourselves. I am raising difficult but necessary questions that we refuse to face.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out our strengths as well as our weaknesses.  Until we do not recognize our own flaws we will be stuck in the same hole that we have been for the past 30 years. Like I said this is not about Ebadi only but about the revisionist thinking that needs to have its reality check and not prescribe false hopes.

 


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Ben Madadi

Re: David

by Ben Madadi on Thu May 22, 2008 03:09 AM PDT

Why Criticise her? Okay, we may have different views about things, but why criticise someone who is genuinely trying to do some good? We also need to be pragmatic and understand that she, and others like her, need to live with their conditions inside a society ruled by an oppressive regime. I honestly don't think it is fruitful for us to criticise THE WAY a courageous woman INSIDE Iran is helping the cause of progress and freedom for our country.


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David ET

Dear Ben I agree with you.

by David ET on Thu May 22, 2008 01:31 AM PDT

Dear Ben I agree with you. Like I said I do have much respect for her. when some of us critisize that means we care

n.zanian u tokin to me?!

 


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n.zanincanadai

David E Kelly I missed you

by n.zanincanadai on Wed May 21, 2008 06:13 PM PDT

David E Kelly I missed you glad you're back. Please catch me up on Obama...che khabareh? Be koja resid?


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Ben Madadi

Dear David

by Ben Madadi on Wed May 21, 2008 02:57 PM PDT

I have great respect and admiration for Mrs Ebadi because unlike ME she is struggling INSIDE Iran risking her life.

She may not be perfect, but she is one courageous woman. I respect her and admire her and the simple fact that she is fighting for the betterment of the Iranian society INSIDE IRAN makes me give her my 100% support and respect. I have not had her courage, nor her patriotism. I left my country to have freedom for myself. She has sacrificed a lot to fight for her countrymen :)


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David ET

In reply

by David ET on Wed May 21, 2008 02:30 PM PDT

To Anonymously :  I am not trashing anyone! I am simply expressing a constructive opinion. If you listen to the VOA interview, even DR. Ebadi welcomes difference of views. I assure you that the person that you supposedly are defending would discuss what I brought up in a much more constructive way than your reply. Yes she obtained Nobel prize, but are you saying no one can ever say anything about her or has to be subjected to the wrath of others?  The problem is those of us who live in a black and white world of "allahi" with different prefixes of Shah, Hezb, Khomeini, or Ebadi. Regardless of what we stand for if we have no tolerance for other views there is really no difference among us. I do have much respect for Mrs. Ebadi and what she has done and achieved in the area of human rights, yet I also give myself the right to state my views. I actually AM concentrating on something VERY positive and that is to seek solutions to a 30 year old problem. I have no idea what you are talking about using the word obsession. If two articles in a blog proves an obsession, so be it. After all this is not about Ebadi but the revisionist movement.   To Mehdi: I have answered your question clearly before. But if you want me to state what should be done tomorrow morning at 9:00 am that I can’t and won’t nor is up to me. Those inside Iran do not need me or us to tell them what to do or even not to do. Yet we have the right to express our opinions or do what we can to reflect the struggles inside Iran to the outside world.The rest of your comments such as my" method of toppling the regime" and my " solution is bombing Iran" and "devastating confusion that follows you and your buddies could manage to take over and start playing with the much envied "petrol-dollars?" are just barage of un-founded presumptive nonsense that do not deserve a reply. Then you proceed to ask me what Ebadi should do. I think we should first start with what she and the revisionist movement should NOT do. I have brought this up few time already in these two articles. Actually that is what the articles have been about !!! But you keep asking the same question, so I give you the benefit of the doubt and try to simplify which is actually not a good idea but I try !: We should NOT propose revision of the current system (the two step method that Ebadi stated and was reflected in “Ebadi’s mirage” article).  There is s virus called Islamic Republic in Iran that is causing much suffering and even death among people. What I am saying is that "Doctor" Ebadi and alike should not hope that the virus would somehow turn to a healthy enzyme someday by asking it to become one! (Revision). Such false hope actually can be deceiving to the patient and can lead to the false hope and cope with the virus instead of : acknowledging it, Improving the immune system, Proper nutrition etc etc. This is the least that can be done to fight the virus short of having a miracle medicine to cure it (which is what you are asking me to suggest???). Now if we do not agree on this, then how can we even get to the “next step” which is how to get rid of the virus?. But regardless prescribing the wrong medicine is not the solution! Struggles of Ebadi to expose the regime's human right violations  are very honorable but her expectation of a reformed system is not realistic.   I assure you that only after such realization "gradually" the rest will fall in place also.   and No!  I am not suggesting bombing or a revolution but I do not believe in a revision of this regime either. Meanwhile I reserve the right to express my views even if Shahollahi's, Hezbollahi's, Ebadiollahi, Rajaviollahi's etc etc don’t want me to. If freedom of expression and human rights and respect are what we seek, we should learn to practice it ourselves first than trying to shut up any point of view that is different than ours by resorting to chomagh or labeling .

 


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Jahanshah Rashidian

David

by Jahanshah Rashidian on Wed May 21, 2008 02:06 PM PDT

When an article like yours opens people's eyes, Islamist thugs and IRI's supporters bash the author. This is the best right you have.

All Islamist thugs / supporters on this site are affected at least by one of these ills: belief, self-interest, naivety, and lack of self-confidence. Fear has been always an instinctive feeling of man. Any totalitarian regime stirs up fear to kill self-confidence in people. The IRI constantly keeps fear alive because it has been so useful that even people without other factors can submit. So is that a spectrum of left collaborated with the regime to commit massive crimes short after the revolution.

Back to Ebadi, she has never said she was good at politics, her attitudes and superficial positions are not serious, and she might change her views according how the above factors may wind up. I think people like Ebadi can sometimes protect civil rights, but ultimately or at best belong to the fake opposition which is not a thorn in the eyes of mullahs and their supporters.


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Mehdi

And your solution is bombing Iran?

by Mehdi on Wed May 21, 2008 12:04 PM PDT

You say "... another failure of the revisionist movement..." What about your method of "toppling the regime" which has failed over and over for 28 years and currently has absolutely no real hope of ever accomplishing that goal and quietly hopes that Iran will be bombed by the US and "allies" so that maybe in the devestating confusion that follows you and your buddies could manage to take over and start playing with the much envied "petro-dollars?" Why do YOU refuse to tell us how exactly YOU recommend we should do it? How exactly Ebadi should do it? Your suggestions are like most "opposition" today which is indirectly supporting the bombing of Iran by presenting the case that there is no other hope and we should just agree with it. You NEVER say what your solution is, but only trash those who have worked hard and accomplished something, unlike your utterly ineffective strategy. Quit writing destructive articles and start doing something useful.


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Tahirih

separation of religion and state is the only way ....

by Tahirih on Wed May 21, 2008 10:59 AM PDT

to democracy in Iran . under such atmosphere every religious group ,including Muslims can practise their faith without persecution . Also the right of agnostics would be protected.

Tahirih


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default

David ET

by Anonymously (not verified) on Wed May 21, 2008 10:20 AM PDT

First of all: like many other PHD's out there, Dr Ebadi has worked hard for her title and for her position. Please show the respect that you would to any man with PHD and refer to her appropriately.

Now: Why are you trashing the one person who has brought the world's attention to Iranian women and their issues with human and equal rights? why trash the one who has won the title of the first Iranian Nobel Peace Prize winner?

Please concentrate on doing something positive for your country instead of sitting on the sidelines and criticizing people who have been actively fighting the injustices in Iran.

In conclusion, I don't think your criticism is based on what Dr Ebadi represents or says, but it sounds like an obsession and it is puzzling to say the least.


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