Disenchanted

بما چه؟

امیدوارم که فلسطینیها و اسرأیلیها اینقدر تو سر هم بزنند تا جون دوتاشون در بیاد.  

Did Bibi caved in?

 //news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100426/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

"JERUSALEM – The Israeli government has effectively frozen new Jewish construction in Jerusalem's disputed eastern sector, municipal officials said Monday. The decision was made despite Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's public insistence that building would not be stopped in the face of U.S. pressure."

...and a note:

Ed Koch and Chuck Schumer should go live in Israel if they love it better than US. Obviously! These fellows have missed the fact that America is much bigger than New York City and their extremist Jewish constituents! How dare Schumer to threaten to "blast" White House in public if Obama does not succumb to Netanyahu's outrageous demands!

The type of "entitlement" attitude shown by Zionists won't stop at occupied territories. These folks have even the audacity to proclaim Netanyahu should replace Obama as US president (see my post below).

your welcome

mutual interest in details are one step to understanding. one of the reasons i'm hooked on ic at the moment is that i'm learning a lot. it shows how complex things are, and is sometimes demoralizing and downright depressing, but knowledge is key.

think what would happen if instead of military service people were sent to blog for two years with 'the other side'. they'd be too busy for military action, and maybe the other side would become humanized and undemonized.

then we could all spend the 'defense' (haha) budgets on education and culture.

humanbeing

thank you for the detailed explanation of the inner politics. It makes sense and is very informative. People need to understand  inner working of nations to see why they act as they do.

I agree with you about Netanyahu. Plus his tenure at MIT managed to inflate his ego some more.

Sharon did have a major change of heart. I used to not like him because of his past. But he showed a lot of courage. He also got away with it because of his past sort of like the Nixon to China thing. It is really a shame that right when he was about to act he had the stroke. I have a feeling he may have been able to make some major changes. Regarding his unilateral withdrawal I don't really blame him. Figured nothing good was coming out of the occupation to pulled out.

It is sort of sad that Olmert turned out such a disaster. 

Don't know much about Livini.

I do know about Iranian Mofaz! 

Perez seems like a nice person. But it looked to me like he was always partners with a bigger character like Rabin. Do you expect him to be a major force?

Ironically Rabin was murdered right when he was about to make some major changes. Makes you wonder why this keeps happening.

Senator Schumer the sell out

Anytime  a  US Senator, i.e. Chuck Schumer of NY criticisms and fully supports Israel instead of having loyalty toward US and people of America, nothing better is expected of spy nest called AIPAC their their cronies.

Such a shame that these senators work for foreign governments rather than this country.

//www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/23/white-hou...

-YT 

ps my position

you asked what is my position: i want the impossible. i want israel to exist as a modern democratic secular state with a just legal system which is respected and respects ALL citizens, to continue to take immigrants but not just jewish ones but palestinian ones. to welcome in the people fleeing from darfur and somalia and to give them working permits, not just residence permits. i want peace. i want economic independence from u.s. but a robust economy. i want peace and normalization with iran and with the arabs. i don't want land. i don't care about sovereignty. i don't want a religious state. i don't want to travel on separate buses for women (they are trying to legistlate this in jerusalem), and for women to be denied divorce because their husband doesn't feel like it (there is no separation of church and state in burial and marriage) and i want the public schools to be mixed jewish arab. to get rid of apartheid policies, and to build up the economy, education and opportunities in the disenfranchised sectors.

vpk wish i knew

you are absolutely right. i'm being unrealistic and jumbling wishes with reality. it's not even a political party thing so much as a personality thing. bibi netanyahu is dishonest and powerhungry, so he caves in to religious and extreme right wing forces, as long as he can stay in power. he never puts everything on the table, and i would say it's like an autist, who doesn't know how to fit himself to rules of communication, especially not when these rules are dynamic.

someone like sharon, who is now brain dead in an icu unit, made a huge u-turn: he orchestrated the withdrawal from settlements around gaza. although this was a brave move, it could only have been done by someone with his kind of track record (as much as we dislike it -- he was a pariah in the international community and among the israeli enlightened), just as withrawal from sinai peninsula could only be done by someone like menahem begin (who btw was unstable, and bombed osirak, something bibi would not have had the balls to do, so i'm not worried that he'll bomb iran. he won't dare). the problem with sharon's withdrawal, as seen by critics from the left, was that he did it one-sidedly, instead of through dialogue with the pals.

but some things are moving. the likud local leaders last week wrote full-page ads, not in haaretz, but in the more tabloid newspapers (which their constituency reads) calling on bibi to 'get down from the tree', an idiom for relinquishing his 'honour' 'pride' (male ego thing) and make trust-building steps for peace with pals and with u.s. and to stop with settlements. this indicates that the consensus at grassroots is moving away from the line of those in power. however, the public here is much much more apathetic than in iran.

labour is down the tubes. barak is just as power hungry as bibi, but is also attached to many failed military fiascos. in that sense he is more frightening. i don't know if he would have the leadership it takes to stop an idiotic military escapade even if he is in the cabinet. he has been instrumental in fragmenting the labour party, milking it for his own personal ambitions and then 'throwing out the wrapper' (my imagery).

kadima under sharon did one good thing and withdrew from settlements around the gaza strip, but livni, who won the most votes in the most recent elections, couldn't get kadima to build a coalition because she didn't 'bend over' (borrowing shazde's imagery) to the fundamentalist religious party 'shas' and then the momentum was gone. shas' grand rabbi also wears a robe and a turban with gold embroidery and they have no women mks and go by a law reminiscent of shari'a law etc etc. i wouldn't mind sending them all off to a mixer with iri apparatchiks.

within kadima breathing down livni's neck is shaul mofaz (iranian!) who was defense minister, and he's a jingoist, just in kadima bcs likud didn't want him. a lot of leftover garbages are in kadima.

peres, who is NOT garbage, was also in kadima, bcs barak pushed him out of positions of influence in labour. he is now president, mainly ceremonial (e.g. taking caspian makan on a tour of holocaust museum etc etc). peres has some ideals, and he would promote more withdrawal from settlements, more talks and concrete actions, as well as cultural and educational moves against ignorance of palestinian culture AND persian culture. i talked a bit about certain trends of interest in persian culture in other comments on this site. most importantly, peres would not promote or manipulate the us into war on iran. also, although a shrimp eating enjoyer of wine and feminine beauty, he has never been condescending to shas party, and for them 'honour' means a lot: he could blackmail or bribe them into going for settlement withdrawal. and they sweep a lot of not particularly religious people along with their divisive rhetoric of the disenfranchisement of jews from african and asian countries (they have a point but they couldn't care less about this disenfranchised constituency, and instead of beefing up their education and opportunities, they keep them ignorant, poor and obedient), and incite them towards hatred of arabs, and to disregard the secular legal system.

many politicians are racist, opportunist and corrupt as well as criminally guilty, and are undermining the legal system, which has by the way outlawed settlements in east jerusalem, run-of-the-mill prejudice, and injustice. the supreme court has ruled against checkposts, violence against civilians, new building in the west bank, racist legislation, etc etc but the current government doesn't give a hoot. they see the public sit on their couches, peel sunflower seeds with their teeth and watch the peels bounce off their pot bellies, and do nothing.

 you asked for it! i overdid it. you should know i have no indepth understanding of politics and give you a very very superficial view. bottom line, very very pessimistic. low grade human material and apathy due to drop in levels of culture and education and moral values. (aka the occupation).

humanbeing

who do you think is going to run Israel? I am not as on top of their polls and I could be. The issue is that it will be one of the three main one. I just don't see labor gaining majority and we all know likud is bad news. Maybe there are no real good options.

What is your position and who do you think will be in charge?

VPK

vpk

vpk, if you don't hate israel, don't wish kadima on them. likud is in free fall we all hope. but kadima's last term began with lebanon war and ended with gaza war. both horrific. their leader ulmert will soon be on trial, unfortuniately for money and corruption charges, and not for responsibility for massive loss of life. livni, their current leader, did not raise her voice in cabinet against war, and is a close friend of lieberman, whom most sane israelis see as a racist. okay, maybe i'm being fussy. the public here is not yet courageous enough to promote change, but from their couches, at least, they are inspired by the iranians risking their lives on the streets.

I'm going against israel to isolate Iran & weaken hezbollah!

I have a very shrewd game plan. This protest only helps to change our image as friend of Israel which is what I really want when negotiating with arabs. We have to change our image as a bias broker for peace!

Of course I am not going to support democracy, unless, it helps the US to overthorw the regime so I can replace it with some pro-US guys. That's all! After all, I am using a different tactics in order to control the middle east. Our aim remains the same as bush, just the method of achieving it has changed. SHHHH

sparrowlake

I don't hate Israel. I also do not appreciate your blanket insult and assumption that we are ALL fools who hate Israel. 

Bush was in charge for 8 years and did not do one thing to help Iran get free. Israel is worried about itself as it should be. However they are on the wrong track by hyping the nuclear issue. If they do hit Iran it will likely increase the Mullah's hold. Unless the US does a full invasion and topples the IRI. Right now the US is not in a position to do so. That means a lot of barking but no realy ability to bite. I said many times the focus should be freedom for Iranians not the red herring of nuclear issue.

People in both Israel and US have listened to their own propaganda about the nuclear thing for too long. They have lost the ability to see clearly. The tea baggers are using Israel to undermine Obama. This is all politics of the worst kind. If opposing the nut case tea baggers makes me a fool then by all means.

I dare say the real idiots are the tea baggers and any foreign leader who hangs out with them. Next election Likud is out and replaced by Kadima which is a lot more sane. Heck likud was too insane even for Sharon. That should tell you something VPK

questionable Q

sorry but is it shaved or hairy ?

At last you could say ki.... my foot or hand you know. ?        Maziar

you are all fools

you all think that lack of support for Israel  will help cause of Iranian freedom. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Obama, no matter what his take is on israel is not a beacon of freedom for the green movement. In fat just the opposite. If given the choice he will ignore the calls of freedom within Iran. His only interest is making sure the crazy mullahs you put into office don't kill others with nuclear bombs. 

AT least Bush would have made the effort to support the green movement. Your hatered of Israel makes you blind to those simple facts

James Lafferty

is a moron of the prime kind. The idiot still does not get it that Obama was born in Hawaii. He is a US citizen natural born on US territory. The reality challenged tea baggers hate Obama because he is black plain and simple. To them it is impossible that America has a black president. Tea party is the new version of KKK ; funded by corporation. Led by Palin and he likes. Nothing is too evil for the tea party. Nothing too low for the tea party to stoop.

Netanyahu is a convenient ally since noxious people attract one another. In any event sounds like a gathering of nuts. Glad I missed it! I hope the two of them don't mate. The offspring would be truly frightning ouch!

VPK

Here is what happened at rally in NYC on Sunday!

 //canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/22433

from the link above:

"Speaker James Lafferty declared Benjamin Netanyahu the leader of the Free World now that Obama has vacated that post and suggested only somewhat facetiously that Netanyahu should run for the Presidency in the US since citizenship is not required anymore."

I guess I am doing something right if israelis R after me!

How could an israeli get on NBC? I am sure it is not because the CEO of NBC (Zuckermen) is zionist! They have no shame, do they? they are to destroy me anyhow they can. I have to play a balancing act here. You knw they are in charge of this country and me as well, but I am going to do my darnest not to be their puppet all the time! Wish me luck!

Mayor Ed Koch can kiss my ass

Great: Zionists and Teabaggers have become allies. This isn't a surprise, remember Israeli citizen Orly Taitz?
//tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/ea...

I wish I could say Iranians, especially Iranian Jews are smart enough to stay out of this kind of shameful AIPAC political theater, but I know better. A good portion of them are die hard likudniks.

Nobody in their right mind thinks more confrontation with Iran is beneficial to the US.

vpk, "it's over, deal with it!"

And do watch some monarchist tv programs on satellite tv, you'll wake up to the stench of their ideas when it comes to the future of Iran, and of course they are expecting to be helped  by Israel and the rest of warmongers of this world. Don't be surprised if the monarchists did attend this party. 

Disenchanted

that's why we are not going to see Israel attack Iran. US won't put up with it. That's why the Israeli demonstrators are pissed. Bush and Obama share one thing: a bit of brain that tells them Israeli attack on Iran is a bad idea.

Liability of Israel

It's somehow difficult to argue over the agreed points. We all know that Israel was paid HUGE amount of money to stay out of the first attack against Iraq, and then George Bush(father) was defeated for his second term, by the Jewish influence.

My point, however, is since the 50's the notion of Jeudo-Christianity has entered the American political language, which is not ready to be dismissed, and might backfire to any such attempt.

The case for Israeli being a liability for US not an asset

   Check this link for more info on Israeli lobby in US:

   //www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby

Israeli a liability, An excerpt from above link: 

"The first Gulf War revealed the extent to which Israel was becoming a strategic burden. The US could not use Israeli bases without rupturing the anti-Iraq coalition, and had to divert resources (e.g. Patriot missile batteries) to prevent Tel Aviv doing anything that might harm the alliance against Saddam Hussein. History repeated itself in 2003: although Israel was eager for the US to attack Iraq, Bush could not ask it to help without triggering Arab opposition. So Israel stayed on the sidelines once again."

Mola

I don't watch much TV it is bad for my brain or whats left of it.

The Shah was no one's fool and that is why the got rid of him. We wouldn't be in this bind if the Shah had remained.

vpk, I thought Shah died a few decades ago

The present monarchists are supported by Israel and Israeli lobby and they do attend each other's demonstrations. If you don't believe me watch their programs on satellite TV programs.

Mola

don't trash the monarchists. The Shah himself was very critical of Israel. Watch:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQgZ3oLp_WY

PS,

I am not a monarchist. But I am not going to sit back and see the Shah trashed unjustly.

A good read

On the issue of reducing the status of Israel from an asset to a liability, one has to be more cautious. Nonetheless,

//www.tlaxcala.es/detail_campagne2.asp?ref_ca...

//www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/0...

//www.nypost.com/p/news/national/warning_from...

What can you do?

They are the "chosen people". Chosen by the God himself to grab other people's land, destroy homes and farms, kill and imprison the natives (ala Avatar the movie) manipulate American foreign policy...the list is long. There are 15 thousands Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons being tortured and mistreated, 350 of them are under the age of 18 and as young as 12 years old. 

This is what was reported today: 

"Palestinian protesters and Israeli police have clashed after Jewish settlers marched in the Arab neighbourhood of Silwan in occupied East Jerusalem. The hardline settlers, who live in illegal housing units on occupied Palestinian land, want Arabs removed from the area and their homes demolished to make way for Israeli construction projects." //english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/04/20104258757856525.html

I wonder if any monarchist is attending this demonstration? 

No kidding?

those who want Iran turned into a "mud puddle" don't like Obama! They could have fooled me and I am a prophet! No war on Iran.

Heck Bush was more sane than these jerks.

VPK

ina ham...

daste peesh migeeran pas nayoftan...:O))))