Defending Iranian Democracy

VPK

With regard to your comment here to another person Truthseeker, I think you are not being totally honest. I remember his comments against an anti-islam petition.

"If you want to define all Muslims with the same brush be my guest. No wonder you get along with you know who. Both seem to like broad brushes. I prefer to use a more fine grained approach. Go by the individual not by a whole group. ...In my book there individuals. Who are responsible for their own actions. If a Muslim does something wrong it is not automatic fault of Muslims. It is his or her fault. Same for any other religion or nationality." 

This is in contradiction to your previous comments on IC -  I will quote one exchange here with me -

//204.232.242.254/main/blog/soosan-khanoom/islamophobia-response-there-no-such-thing-moderate-muslim-piyalechi

"Muslims are raised to think they are right. They are raised to think in terms of "Islam good" ; "others bad". How else do you explain "najis"?A Muslims is not even supposed to touch a non Muslim because they are "unclean". Now is that being tolerant?" ... "The difference of me and a Muslim is that I take criticism. I do not react violently. I respect your opinion while disagreeing with it....I do a small part in the battle against ignorance. I have managed to turn at least a dozen people away from Islam in my life. ....Unfortunately the Muslim mentality mixes up "suggestion" and "demand". Because there are no suggestions in Islam. It is always a demand. So people get confused over other peoples suggestions. "

When I see people making big contracdictions I will point this out. I remember this conversatin, it is a difficult one to forget. So before you take a higher moral space to people remember people read your comments.

Here, lighten up a bit

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IRAN FIRST

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Sister tiger

The answer to your question is: pre-op-Brother!

For an Islamic democracy

religions are all biased - constitutions should equalize every 1

All religions preach gloom and doom if you do not follow their particular line, and even sect.  It is the job of a secular government to see that religious mumbo-jumbo do not become the law, while supporting all religions.  Even the Jewish mayor of NY agrees that this a freedom of religion case and cannot be mixed with 9/11.

I also agree with Arj.

Simorgh

An ambitious lunatic like Khomeini (actually 'heretic') has his counter-examples in his contemporaries such as a giant like Seyyed Jalaluddin Ashtiyani who spent the last years of his life solidly and unequivocally condemning the regime as he had condemned it at its beginning: a man who studied the same seminary curriculum and the same Qu'ran.

People like Mr Rostami (and by extension yourself) do not know anything about Islam other than biases fed to you by the propaganda machine in North America. Arguably your views of a religion such as Islam are also formed by the fact that it is presently trendy and mainstream to be an Islamophobe, all evidence be damned. Now, my guess is, that neither you nor Mr Rostami know literary, classical Arabic to be able to read and understand the Qur'an in the original in order to to pronounce judgement on it. That's for the first issue.

The second issue is that a cult requires a level of unified coherence and uniform cohesiveness in order to be a cult, as that term is defined by the social sciences. The ummah of Islam has not had this since the day Prophet (pbuh) died. That aside, there are as many Islams as there are Muslims. Islam also includes the Avicennas, Suhrawardis, Rumis, Hafizs, Nasir Khosrows, Mulla Sadras, etc. None of these figures can be accused of being violent terrorists, quite the contrary, and all of these figures were Muslims. 

Therefore Islam is not Khomeini just as it is not Osama bin Ladin nor Mullah Umar nor the Saudi Wahhabi Kingdom nor the assorted Salafi extremists whose leashes are held by the Anglo-American power elite. Islam is many things and what the Western media has attempted to pigeon-hole as an singular Islamic monolith simply does not exist - and whether you like it or not, therefore neither you nor Mr Rostami are in any qualified position to pass sweeping indictments with labels such as "cult." If you want to see what a cult is and how it behaves and what it looks like, I can show you one much closer to home.

Now North American Evangelical Christianity is a dangerous, genocidal, reactionary and fascist ideology whose bitter fruits have been tasted throughout the length and breadth of this planet as a political force when in the White House for 8 years. You might have problems with Islam. I see North American Evangelical Christianity and the Tea Party as a far bigger threat than anything you believe about Islam.

Good night!

"My last response ever to you"

What a relief as you dont even know what a forum is. It is not my decision to have a mosque in NYC but I can take part in a discussion and have a view. You are always personal VPK, look at the accusations you make, childish comments "you know who" and "fight" . Really you need to grow up.

LOL ..... Lili

LOL ..... Lili 

Hate speech!

This is nothing but hate speech! It has no literary merits but ill will towards a specific social group! I'm not a fan of Islam, yet I can't believe that IC features such vitriol aimed at a group of citizens whose only fault is having been born to a certain religious belief! Can't even begin to imagin what the reactions would be if instead of Moslims, it was another group of people referred to as "termites!"

Raoul1955 of all the greatest Grand Ayatollahs of the Black hole

Careful , we've got a feast of a festival of fanatics here too. They think they're hot!

//www.newstatesman.com/blogs/star-spangled-st...

 May the Grand Ayatollah of the Blak hole have mercy upon my soul and body bits too, so I don't get in the firng line.

Btw, what ya think of my idea of a statue of Medusa on Ground Zero*? You see, if something happens to it, it'll just grow another head. lol

*copyright Tiger Lily. All Rights reserved and mushroomed.

truthseeker

My last response ever to you. Go find someone else to pick a fight with.

It is not your decision to have a mosque in NYC. That is up to the city and whatever they decide is fine with me. How about that? Democracy in action.

Brother Salman

Both Koran and Bible preach intolerance. What if I want to build a wooden image and pray to it. Why is it anyone's business. As someone else said on another blog. Abraham was an ***hole of the prime kind. 

If he tried his thing today in America he would be in trouble For vandalism; damage to property and so on. My previous post already said I do not blame all Muslims. But I have no use for people telling me what to worship or not. 

People should mind their own business. We get in trouble when self appointed guardians of morality run amok. I don't need another person to tell me what to do. Be it Abraham; Jesus or Mohammad. Let them worry about their own problems.

VPK you are talking nonsense and patronising

“I work with Muslims; never saw one blow up anything.”“If you want to define all Muslims with the same brush be my guest. No wonder you get along with you know who. ““ If a Muslim does something wrong it is not automatic fault of Muslims.”

Please read peoples posts and stop making patronising comments. I said I have sympathy for victims and agree with insensitivity of having a mosque there ONLY. But when people come here and accuse others of being undemocratic when their own religious verses are undemocratic I will say something. I am sick of being politically correct when some of these people come and slate other religions as "Cults" but cannot answer questions about their own belief systems which have been more dangerous. Then people are made to feel "guilty" and called names just because they do not fall for BS.

Many people are born to religions and are not religious, they do not even know their Holy Book. It is a cultural thing that is passed on in the family. But I think once in a while they should think about why they believe whta they belive and re-examine choices. That is what adults do.

Truthseeker

I was going to stop debating with you but I will respond to this one. 

Religions do not define people not in my experience anyway. Why should I go lookup religion when I have personal experience. Here is an example from American history. Regarding slavery Christians used religion to justify slavery. Others used it to refute slavery. People are defined by their actions. Not what religion they claim to practice. I work with Muslims; never saw one blow up anything. Nor did I see them disrespect women or acting in a way that was inappropriate.

As for world view again I disagree. Our view has more to do with upbringing; culture and who we are. Practices among "Muslims" are as different as it gets. Iranians act different from Egyptians or Saudi. For example in Iran women get to drive cars. In Saudi they do not. Iranians do not practice female circumcision but some others do. Again not due to Islam. Iranians even under IRI wear a scarf for Hijab. While Pashtuns require Burka. Is this the same thing? 

If you want to define all Muslims with the same brush be my guest. No wonder you get along with you know who. Both seem to like broad brushes. I prefer to use a more fine grained approach. Go by the individual not by a whole group. 

In my book there individuals. Who are responsible for their own actions. If a Muslim does something wrong it is not automatic fault of Muslims. It is his or her fault. Same for any other religion or nationality.

Personally I don't like organized religion. Because it gives too much power to self proclaimed representatives of "God". 

Raoul

I did not say he is seeking I said he should be seeking?  LOL       By the way, if you want to know what I think about a Grand Zero mosque please go to this link and read the first blog I ever wrote on this site more than a year ago.   Is it not funny?    And NO  the idea of a Grand Zero Mosque is not going to get any more attention from me   ...      

"democracy means seeing everyone the same"

Does Islam see everyone the same? how does it treat people of other religions?

VERY INTRIGUING DR RASTANI

You use the title of defending Iranian democracy.

Do YOU NOT YET know democracy means seeing everyone the same but of course except muslems. They are different in your judgement. You can always refer to some of them as extremist or just terrorists WHY do you generallise so much???????????

Then you really gave it away by saying, "Islam is not a religion, it is a CULT". No sir Dr, you are yet to familiarise yourself about islam and then blog.

Fairness and Equality in Justice

TL

What a surprise, I thought your pet hate was all Cults. Yet you rush here with talk of Islamophobia?

Brovva, Salman Farsi, just out of curiosity

terribly off topic, but what are transsexual brothers called when they've done the op? Are they called sister?

Tariq Ali - The Perils Of Islamophobia Part 1 of 4

"Tariq Ali explains the danger of the spread of Islamophobia in the West .
Islamophobia merely reenforces the Islami radicals belief that the
Christian West is out to destroy or oppress Muslims that is individual
Muslims along with the religion of Islam and the Muslim nations.
Tariq Ali compares Western anti-semitism to this current form of prejudice against Islam.
As in earlier times in the West in European nations and in the United States and Britain and Canada anti-semitism was rife.
Yet
as he points out the new revisionist history in the West is that the
WWII was fought to defend the Jewish people of Western and Eastern
Europe .
But this is historically fallacious and is a way for the West to ignore the historical roots of anti-semitism .  "

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq9NcjtmO-w

Soosan:

Mansur is just expressing his thoughts. I didn't notice if he was seeking employment advice though.  :-)

"We mix up people and their religions"

Um, yes. Please look up religion. It says something about a persons culture, belief system and worldview, their values. Most people are born to a religion but are not religious and do not know much about the religion they follow. But certainly a Muslim is not like a Hindu or Jain, that much generalisation can be made.  

Borther Rastani

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 14:6

You misquoted Qur'an by misusing the term religion which was addressing the infidels and their cultist worship of idols. Qur'an has no problem with the people of the Book. But read the above quote from Jesus carefully. He is saying that his faith is the only exclusive path to salvation and God. These words of Jesus were misused as tthe basis of the Crusades which resulted in the killings of hundreds of thousand of Christians and Mulsims.  

The moment a faith claims that their way is THE only way to the truth and salvation, they are asking for and seeking blood.

Now brother which faith is the cult?

For an Islamic democracy

Most Religions

got their radicalism. They also got the normal people who do not cause trouble. If anyone followed most religions to the letter they will go right to jail in America. Religious freedom in America is very restricted.

You may believe whatever you want but to practice it is a different story. No polygamy; no underage marriage. Sure build all the temples you want. But if you try to wreck other people's temples then you are in trouble. Break the idols = vandalism. Take their girls a slaves = kidnapping. You just have got to forget what the books say.

I work with a lot of people. Of all the people I work with it happens that the two practicing Muslims are the nicest. Does this mean all Muslims are nice? No. It just means that the two Muslim guys I work with are nice. The other nice guy is an orthodox Jew. Again does this mean all orthodox Jews are nice? No, it means this guy is nice. We mix up people and their religions. 

...

I suppose it is insensitive to the relatives of the murdered, that part I do have sympathy with.

BTW Tabarzin, great link! But nothing tops this cult whose prophet practiced pedophilia. Muhammad took Aisha as his bride when she was six or seven years old, and consummated the marriage when she was nine.

The following is an extract from a fatwa issued by the late Ayatollah Khomeini .

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."

I Have An Idea!!!

Dr. Rastani, why don't you join the Klu Klux Klan and move to Gainesville Florida and attend the Gainesville Florida Baptist Church - with Reverend Smith; AND go on youtube all day and watch speeches by Gert Wilders and Newt Gingrich ...then find out where the local chapter of the Tea Party 9/12 Patriots is... and just see how it feels. Because your hate speech reminds of the what they say and preach. Why don't you see if you are even welcomed in. This mosque is what they call a wedge issue, being used by politicians to divide Americans and grab votes. There is no sense to it at all.

You know what, in America, you are perfectly entitled to do that. Now in Holland where Gert Wilders is from, you might get lynched in some neighborhoods. Rev. Smith would never even allow you in his church. And the 9/12 Patriots will pull out guns and maybe even shoot you - not cause of your religion - but because you look like a "firner'.

As for me, I think I prefer a secular, open, democratic, and free society where people can say what they want, believe what they believe, worship as they please ...and live in Harmony with the rest of mankind.

Bottom line, there are 23 Churches within 3 blocks of the world trade center in New York, there are 6 Senegogues in the same viscinity. Moslems have a right to worship - where they please as do people of other faiths.

There are many unresolved questions about the events at 9/11 ...I would not get too aggressive about pointing at some PAkistani Cab Driver in New York that is praying in Downtown Manhattan, as the cause of 9/11 events. It just doesn't make sense. There are almost 2Bn Moslems in this world, and we all - everyone of us - need to learn to live, work, pray, and live life to the fullest arround each other.

I am not condoning the terrorists - whethere they are Islamic, Chrisitan or Jewish or even Hindu terrorists...they all need to be punished and brought to justice. I am condoning peace, love, tolerance, and respect.

I happen to agree with Dr Rastani

But also ask yourself this question:

If the reverse had happened how many mosques would have been allowed to be built in the islamic hellhole on which the incident happened?

ZERO, is the answer, plus all the resident or naturalized infidels would have been killed.

But hey, keep kidding yourself while defending this alien so called religion. Iranians are good at being kaaseye daagh tar az aash!

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IRAN FIRST

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Tabarzin

The author of this blog was not attempting to defnd the other Abrahamic religions so your dig at Christianity was un-called for. I happen to agree with Dry Rostani; Islam is a curse on Iranian but at the same time I do not condemn all Muslims. Those who are decent and compassionate are examples of bad muslims. An archetypall goodd Muslim can bd found in Ayhatollah Khomeini who spent his whole life in Muslim seminaries and reputed to have read the Koran from the age of six. So if Khomeini believes that killing thousands of political prisoners in thhe space of three days in the infamous prison surges of 1988 was similar to when the prophet Mohammad killed an entire Jewish tribe becausr of a 'hunch' given to him by the Angel Gabriel then who am I to argue? Khomeini and the entire Islamic mullahs believe that killing, mutilation and beheadings are Islamic an d can base it on the Hadiths then who am I to argue against such authority?
Islam is nothing but a death cult which has been the bane of Iran and reason for its slavery for the last 1300 years. However, like the Church of Satanic I believe that those wishing to follow this 'religion' should have their right constitutionally protected.

On a lighter note

And speaking of cults, this link below has got to be one of the funniest things I have seen: //www.televictim.com/christianporn.html

No, this is not a joke!

Dr. Mansur Rastani

Do you read classical, literary Arabic? If so, then please explain what your problem with the Qur'an is. If you don't, then you have never read the Qur'an and so have no idea what is between the covers of the book.

I so agree!

You lot ought to have a giant Communist Manifesto there instead; just to remind your oligarchy more of the Cold War. Or perhaps a giant sound installation of paranoia. Just ask RAND: I like aliens, don't you?