KARAMANIA

Souri

No, it was not me, actually I never posted anything anonymously or under an un-registered name, but thanks for the comment.  My wife thinks so too... she tells me all the time...:-)

Dear friends..

Irandokht aziz,I was seriuos,I really learned from your comments, don't be so humble,no taarof dear. sepaas

Killjoy aziz,no offence taken,very good always try to read between the lines! thanks again for your informative comments.

Hamshahri K.... aziz,thanks for support:

Kas Nakhaarad poshte Man, Joz naakhone Angoshte Man!!Kidding!!

Dear Souri,Thanks,as I said before,I donot care for unregistered comments,but since you are involved,I personally am not here for any contest,let alone nice guy contest!.

TheMrs aziz,chashm bakshidameshoon,inham az otufate molukaaneh bandeh!

Thanks dear friends

A tray of Kolompeh for all of you!!

best wishes

Majid ? Is that you ?

If so, let me tell you that I really like your humour :-)

We are not breaking kaaseh kouzeh on the head, just talking...because we have nothing else to do ........:P)

عجب گرفتاری

عجب گرفتاری شدیم ها! بد و بیراهشو این ابراهیم آقا میده کاسه کوزها سر ما باید بشکنه؟! این چه جور فلسفه و منطقه؟!

Stripper : They are not kids !

28 and 26 are not considered kid anymore !! Especially when they are working in this business. I am sure their manager "impresario" teach them exactly what to say (just before the interview) and they did and said exactly what they have been told to do. Let not get too sentimental.

The same way I defend their rights to proclaim their nationality, the same way I defend ebi's right to proclaim his opinion about this....and honestly, I don't think ebi wants to be posterchild of being nice, he was not always very nice to me, when he wanted to say what he think about my posts, and he tried to be honest.

Bad post is bad post

Doesn't mean that he should not have posted it. This simply was a bad post trying to jump on a bandwagon of ridiculing these 2 kids for the sake of having said something.

It is like Turki jokes. If you post a blog saying Turki jokes in public here it would be a bad post. Doesn't mean you can't post it or shouldn't like some people already do.

If Ebi wants to be the posterchild of being nice then he should be nice. This post wasn't nice.

I want to know why they

I want to know why they look like Zoolander. Don't they know it was a parody?

Don't take it to hear Ebi, if they really meant it, they would say they are Quebecois.

Ye ghalati kardan, fek kardan coolan, shoma be bozorgitoon be bakhshidetoon.

Stripper : Do we post here for the love of the fans ?

You sadi : "Ebi, bad blog, a bad post admit it"....

Why do you think ebi had lost a lot of fans here ? Hadn't he bring up this subject for all of us to discuss, I wouldn't learn from KILLJOY's information and other friends' strong opinion. Even ebi himself, said he learnt a lot from others. Let me remind you that blogging is not all about the fans, but about discussion and learning and teaching.

There's nothing wrong with saying our opinion, bad or good, wrong or right, as long as we stay civil and do not insult each others (what ebi never does)

Indeed, I am very proud of ebi for his love of Iran and the way he transmit it to Khashayar. I am very proud of both Iranian father and son to keep to the Iranian values and Persian heritage.

Let not give the one dimension judgement like this, please. Thank you.

Bad blog

Ebi a bad post admit it! For your own sake of being a nice guy admit that you should not have jumped on these 2 kids. You lost a lot of fans and I hope you learn from it and don't label people so easily. What is it to you anyway?

Ebi jan

Manzooreh man jessaarat nabood my dear friend. I wasn't trying to teach you anything, man ki basham!! 

I just gave you a different perspective, just like dear Killjoy tried to do by bringing up the "do as I say or else" attitude about religion. I am certain Killjoy didn't mean to compare, just give you a different example.

It's very normal for us to get overly emotional about our nationality. I get all defensive when people joke about Iranians too. We all feel nostalgic and are super sensitive about Iran. It takes an effort to keep those emotions in check sometimes.

Thanks :0)

IRANdokht

Ebi jaan,

Sorry for the inadvertently offensive comparaison I drew in my comments. But, "Dar Masal Monaaghesheh Nist."

I read most of your comments and blogs and learn from what you offer and enjoy the occasional wit there. I am also aware of your position on most things "Akhundi."

Thanks for the kind words about my comments, although I must admit it took me very long to read both the lines and between the lines fearing there might be some witty remarks I might be missing.

As for the "naturalization" issue, while appreciating your position, I still believe, "Yaa Roomiyeh Room Yaa Zangiyeh Zang! And I don't endorse the idea of, "Shotor Savari o Dolla, Dolla."

Some day, I'd like to elaborate on this, but for now,
I wish you the best!

Killjoy

P.S. I liked your answer to my "quiz!"

Acanadian Mdm

And so on??

Killjoy aziz

Thanks again for taking time & bringing up some good points.I do agree with you that maybe the choice of examples were not perfect( since it is sunday & I am stuck in front of TV watching NFL),but still I believe in what I said.I didn't get the relationship between what I said & logics of Ayatollahs, I am upset with them for not talking about their Iranian roots,that's it.Please compare me with ANYTHING but Akhunds.The rest of your points were about the laws ,which  is a matter of fact .

But for you last question:UN

sepaas  for a what I learned from your comment

best wishes

Irandokht aziz,my friend

A very intelectual comment,you made some good points & I learned from your comment. I always believe,life is a learning process.Thank you my friend.

sepaas

In the wonderland that is

In the wonderland that is the result of immigration, you can't call people losers for defining themselves differently than you or I would. Khashayar might not say he is American now but asking him in 30 years and he might see himself differently. And if not, so what? He sees himself Iranian. Others don't. Is it Iranian to call others losers?

Who is anyone of us to try to define or limit how any other Iranian defines himself?

Some people who are born in Tabriz with Tork parents always say "yes, my parents are tork". So, are they losers for not acknowledging they themselves are tork?

Some Iranians call themeslves Persian. Others, Iranians. Others EE rananian and so on.

2 kids who grew up in Canada might very well see themselves as Canadian. Who are you to try to belittle them for describing themselves as they see fit?

Who cares what omid jalili calls himself. He isn't married to an iranian and always makes fun of Irnians. Just because he might not refer to himself as British doesn't make him more Iranian than you or Hooman.

What makes you think that calling oneslef Canadian means one is ashamed of being Iranian? They sing in Persian and their fan base is the Iranian community. They are doing more to keep Iranian youth connected to their language than you ever will.

Maybe IRANIANS should accept that some IRANIANS see themselves as other things than just IRANIAN.

What does Iranian mean anyway? I know Iranians who name their kids Jason and they can't even pronounce Jason properly. Others prefer to call themselves Iranian but speak French to their kids and so on.

Dear Ebi,

"Nationality is a relationship between a person and their state of origin, culture, association, affiliation and/or loyalty. Nationality affords the state jurisdiction over the person, and affords the person the protection of the state.

Generally, nationality is established at birth by a child's place of birth (jus soli) and/or bloodline (jus sanguinis). Nationality may also be acquired later in life through naturalization. Corporations, ships, and other legal persons also have a nationality, generally in the state under whose laws the legal person was formed." Wikipedia

Dear Ebi,

Giving examples of Iranians who "proudly" call themselves "Persian" or Iranian doesn't necessarily mean every other Iranian should follow suit.

Dear IRANdokht has talked about Mr. Jalili, so there's no need for me to get into that, again.

The logic you have used in arguing your case here is similar to the logic used by Iranian Ayattolahs who say one cannot convert from Islam to another religion merely because she/he was born a Muslim. Unfortunately, some people have lost their lives over this issue.

Ms. Zahra Kazemi is another example I can think of when it comes to the question of citizenship and IR's primitive method of dealing with this issue

I would also like to emphasize the fact that in North America it is possible for anyone to change her/his citizenship through legal procedures which have nothing to do with one's love for or pride in their countries of origin. Citizenship and nationality have come to mean the same thing and the metaphore "naturalization" is used to indicae the change of one's citizenship or affiliation to one's country of birth.

The law in most countries is starightforward and in some countries you'll need to renounce your former citizenship before you are "honored" with the new LEGAL title. In some countries renunciation of one's former citizenship is implied in the law and it's not a required procedure. That is, there's no need to renounnce one's old citizenship procedurally in order to acquire a new one.

Furthermore, a person's preference for one thing and rejection of another doesn't automatically imply he/she is ashamed of the thing he rejects.

Evolutionary development of certain cultural norms come about as a result of outright rjection of old and outmoded traditions which may not be a source of shame for those who reject them. We may proudly talk about our past cultural norms, but may find it neither proper nor practical to uphold such norms in our modern way of living.

One last thing: What should a child who's got Egyptian, Irish, Iranian, French "blood" be called if he were born in Spain and moved to the U.S. at the age of two and became a U.S. citizen? The father is Iranian and the mother French.

Ebi jan

Omid Jalili's act is based on him being Iranian, he's also using stereotypes of Iranians and middle easterners to make Europeans and Americans laugh. Some may find that a little too much too. I said maybe these boys new album is not, I am not sure... 

I see your point about the second generation being proud of their origins amongst their friends, that is just fine. I did ask my son, with the limited knowledge of the culture and the politics of Iran, not to feel as though he's a representative of Iranians. I don't think that's unreasonable.

We are a proud nation and our generation is trying very hard to hold on to the old values and our ancient history to remind ourselves and others that the past 30 years is not representing who we really are. I can't blame the young generation who doesn't have our background to feel helpless when faced with the only image of Iran that the world has seen in the past 30 years (longer than they've lived).

I think in this effort we make to preserve our dignity, we can be a little too harsh and hard on others sometimes. We hold others in contempt for using arabic words that have been spoken for generations, we try to avoid discussing the darker side of our history unless we're trying to blame it on non-iranians, etc...

in our efforts to preserve who we are and want to remain, we should also realize that these second generation kids are doing their best to be part of us and our image of ourselves. Give them credit for that and don't be so harsh when they disappoint you by claiming their own place of birth.

It's been 30 years of bitter reality my friend. Our generation is holding on tight, but we only exist in our own circles, and we don't even resemble our own hamvatans who still live in Iran... I know it's sad. 

IRANdokht

Irandokht aziz

Thanks for your comment.loved it.I enjoy their music too,but that doesn't mean I like what they said.As for second generation,I think it depends on how you bring them up,I have many second generations among my relatives here,who never where in Iran,but proudly talk about being Iranian among their friends.

As I mentioned in my comment for dear killjoy,Omid Jalili,who now has his own show on BBC,is a second generation Iranian,but never hides it & is not ashamed of it.

I believe " The end doesnot justify the means"!.

sepaas

best wishes

Ebi jan

People like you and me, we introduce ourselves as Iranian first, but please keep in mind that these young men are a second generation Iranians and they were trying to promote themselves as "north America" music duo in this interview.

My son also keeps introducing himself proudly as an Iranian, but I asked him to be careful doing so because he is not familiar enough with Iran and the Iranian culture to pretend to be representing it.

He can be proud that he's of Iranian descent but by calling himself Iranian-American when he's only spent a few weeks in Iran before the age of kindergarten, the only things he knows are what he's seen and heard from me. He is not qualified to speak for Iranians.

I like Kamron and Hooman and I listen to their music, but I don't mind if they try to promote themselves to a wider audience. Maybe their new album is in french and english, I don't know, but I won't hold it against them.

The music clip though was very rude and carried a stench of jealousy/animosity with these two young men. I didn't like it at all.

Best to you my friend

IRANdokht

Hamshahri K.....Aziz !

Gol Gofti

sepaas

Dear Souri,be sure...

That he won't,since I never told him I feel more American than Iranian.He has lived two third of his life in America,but he always tells his American friends that he is " A Proud Persian" & made all his American classmates & friends to call him by his full name,though the best they could come up with was"Kashayar".He started the"Persian Pride" club in his highschool,& now he is very active in his university's "Persian Club".

You will be surprised to know that he still reads "Shahnameh" most of the nights .

pesar ku nadaarad neshaan az pedar.....

Best wishes

Dear killjoy

Good point ,I'll have some examples for you who didn't & won't do it:

1-Omid Jalili,although he can't go to Iran(He is a Bahai),in all his shows,he always has a refence to his nationality.

//uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbh3i77ssw4

2-Shappi Khorsandi (Hadi Khorsandi's daughter),always starts her shows with the refrence to her background.

//uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UMieB-NcS8M

3-Maz Jobrani.

//uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T2-BvYLy7FY

In case of Irish,chinese,I do agree with you;if they are not first/second generation.I both have chinese-American & French-American colleges,who whenever asked about ,say Chinese or French.

The other point is that all the B$ they say about their tours/concerts are the ones they performed mostly their Farsi/Persian songs for Iranians(wether in North America,Turkey or Dubai).

I have traveled to many countries worldwide(due to the nature of my type of work),& always when asked ,answered Iranian(even when I was not Iranian-American!).

In general as I said ,I agree with some points you made & thanks for your reasonable comment.

P.S.

My father didn't sell it,neither will I .

sepaas

Not sure

But I believe the two brothers were born and raised in Canada. Usually our first nationality is the one of our natal country.

They are more Canadian than Iranian, no doubt. Even I, should say that I am more French that I am Iranian, because I have been in Iran only 2/5 of my whole life and the 30 years of my active and adult life are passed outside of Iran. But I, love Iran and insist to say I am Iranian, even if my own little family has never been in Iran.

Ebi, don't be surprised if your Khashayar, says he is American at the age of 25.

Just two little irrelevant jerks...

Ebi Jaan, whom denys own past shall have no future!

Why Not Canadian?

Pedaram rowzeyeh rezvan beh do gandom beforookht Naakhalaf baasham agar man beh joi nafroosham

Dear Ebi,

As you well know, it isn't common for people to mention their countries of origin when they're asked the simple question: "Where are you from?"

Normally, people don't say I'm Irish-American, Chinese-American or Polish-American unless they're asked specifically about their origin. The lady doing the interview never asked these two brothers about their country of origin and they didn't find it necessary to voluteer information.

Also please don't forget that it is common for a person to change his/her citizenship/nationality and adopt a different one.

We also know that Iran today is no Garden of Eden!!!

taking it too seriously

The real vatan forush are in Tehran. every day they sell some part of a country or some thing of country's resources. These two are two young guys who like to become famous, make few box and bang some chicks. What ever they are, they are far from vatan forush.