eroonman

You're Way Off

First of all who said Aryans were blondes?! Just beause western, blonde Aryan-wannabe's think they're Aryans that won't make Aryans blonde. Aryans migrated from Siberia south into India after the last ice-age about 8000 years ago, then within the next 1500 years they moved west through the today's Pakistan/Afghanistan and entered Iran. They got  settled from today's Khorasan to today's Baluchestan, that's when they built the ancient city of Jiroft . Later they shared the Eastern Persia/ILAAM with Partheans. About 4000 years ago Medes also migrated south from Siberia toward the west side of Caspian lake & settled in the area between today's Azarbaijan to the Zagros vallies of today's Kurdestan and Khuzestan.

Then in the next 3000 years many wars and occupations totally mixed the Iranians with Arab blood, Roman blood, Assyrian blood, Monghol/chinese blood, Macedonian/Greek blood with different ratios depending on which part of Persia they lived.

Germans believe they're Aryan but I very much doubt that because their blood is from Germanic/Anglosaxon/Roman tribes not from a tribe that originated 3000 miles to their southeast.

They think Jesus was blonde and Jews were from Palestine but the real Jesus most probably looked closer to Ahmadinejad than Fabio and Jews trace back to East Africa and Nile, where moses was put into the river as a child.  

amirkabear4u - look at references in my last post from CAIS

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While on this subject

can anyone please point to evidence regarding Iranians being aryan.

Contribution from people like samsam are particularly welcome but use normal common language, if possible.

Thanks.

ایران و انیران

i agree that there is no such thing as a "pure race" or "dominant race."  i also agree that iran being in the crossroads of many civilizations has produced iranians of mixed "blood."  however, i don't agree with the logic of the blog.  are all blondes aryans?  are all aryans blondes?  i also don't agree that "pendar nik, goftar nik, kerdar nik" is reserved for or ideals of one certain group of people.  these are the ideals of goodness that any human may strive for, whether religious or athiest.

even if iran means land of aryans, it has a different meaning for me: a land where many people have been able to live together without decimating each other.  we still have people of many ethnicities, languages, religions, customs, cuisines, and appearances.  that's what makes me proud of being an iranian, not the literal meaning of iran.  of course, the barbaric regime that exists in iran today has systematically been trying to homogenize the population.  that's why i think they're aniranian (according to my definition:).

Aryan

meant noble. It did not mean Iranians necessarily were blonde with blue eyes. As the matter of fact Persians for the most part of ancient history were the people who were dominant on others and it wasn't just themselves who called them Aryans,Herodotus also consider Persians as the most noble race on earth. As the Darius the third the last king of Hakhamanishi said, nobody except persians have capabality to rule the world.

Completely disagree with the argument

I usually like and agree with much of what Eeroonman has to say. This article is however void of any value, I don't even know the purpose of it really.

Taking the least scientific argument, least common denominator, and a mythical at best argument, using it as strawman to attack a concept, and decontstruct it is a shallow, and hollow way of proving a point. Brother, I have no idea what kind of Iranians you have been hanging around, I know there are some that exist in LA LA land, and other places that perpetuate the myth of blond aryans as a race of our ancestors, but for the rest of us, Aryanism, and what is symbolizes is a cultural concept, set of values rather than a race. And just because some crazy ass mass murderer stole the term (The term is Sanskrit, and Avestan Persian), and coined it as a superior race, it does not mean, we the real owners of it should relinquish it. Aryan represents a group of a people that practiced a certain a culture, and held certain noble values. I agree with you on one thing, todays Iran is occupied by bunch of degenerates that have little in common with our ancestors. Yes, today's Iran has no Aryan dimension, and when I say that, I dont mean no blond people running around the country. I mean people who don't practice kerdar e nik, goftar e nik, va pendar e nik.

The original Aryans were not blonde

They were a light skinned but dark haired people. The blonde in Aryan was a myth fabricated by the Nazis. The northern European Nordic peopes are a completely different subset of the greater Indo-European race, but they were definitely not Aryans. This has been proven time and again in the anthropological and archeological literature with actual data and evidence. Iranians have generally been  a dark haired  people for a very long time and it has nothing to do with the Mongols.

As for Ari's wish to sanitize the greater Iranian cultural imagination and mythos with a grotesque Darwinism and scientific positivism blinded in the allies of its myopic empiricism: save such ideological scientism (which are generally laughed at by most academics) for morons like Richard Dawkins and episodes of Southpark because this is not what the meaning of Iranianity is about.

Mythic imagination functions on a different plane  altogether than the one the modern unimaginative and sanitized mind is accustomed to. The ancestors of Iranians, on the other hand, are believed to have emerged from Aryana Vaeja (the Pahlavi Eran Vej). There are passages from the Yasht, Vendidad and Yasna of the Avesta that locate such origins. But such origins are never to be taken literally as referring to a mere physical geography (although there is a physical geographic Aryana Vaeja as well). They are symbolic. Every culture has a myth of origins referring to an in illo tempore (at that time) celestial geography or geosophy that transcends this physical plane.  There is Shambhala and the paradise of Vakuntha in the Far-Eastern Himalayan tradition. There is Hyberboraea in the  European tradition, and so on and so forth.

So when the Avesta is talking about Aryana Vaeja it is speaking of another world altogether. When it speaks of this place as containing the seed of Zarathushtra out of which will emerge the future Saoshyant, it is speaking symbolically, not literally. But to dismiss these things speaks volumes about those who dismiss them rather than the content of what is being dismissed, since a symbol is not an argument that is open to refutation. It is not a syllogism or mathematical formula.  A symbol is a mandala, and on the level of symbol myth is a conceptual mandala to be contemplated for what it discloses about the truths of the soul, not  the factual data of history. As such these narrative symbols define the soul of a people and the connection to their land and how the sacrality of the land to them defined and colored their connection to the Spirit and to heaven. This is how the Shahmaneh needs to be read. It is the hierohistory (sacred history) of the Iranian people. It is a hierophany or the eruption of the sacred into the profane events of history.

The complaints of the Aris of the world therefore beg the question and remind one of the  Christian priest  in the film Eric and the Viking: when the Vikings go to Valhalla to see the gods to enlist their help to return the Sun which has occulted, all the Vikings see Valhalla and the Norse gods except the Christian priest accompanying them who is completely blind to the vision. This film underscores the myopia that characterizes the rationalizations of the mentality that is the modern human who is truly fallen from its celestial origins. Those Iranians, on the other hand, who do not buy into the hype that their ancestors have fallen out of trees, and look as the Shahnameh as  a recitation of the symbolic narratives of the Avesta for another generation in another form, still recite this daily prayer:

I come from Aryana Vaeja. My Mother is Spendarmat, the Archangel of the Earth, and my Father is Ohrmazd, the Lord of Wisdom. May I be accounted as amongst the righteous, and may we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth!

Lanat chenghis khan

what an animal.

Judging by how we have

Judging by how we have [not] fought against tyranny in our land and rise up for our rights and freedom, both GK and Hitler are turning in their graves knowing that their grand (8 times) children have turn to such wuss.

One good look at ourselves, would be sufficient to know we have little in common with either group.

I am hearing GK yelling out loud (of course in Mongol language and translated here) "in Parsa heech avaz nashodan, gozashtan ma zan o bachashon ro rape koonim, hala ham meezaran zano bachashoon to zendanha rape bashand"

And Hitler is saying… "hare che ma karamon nazm dareh, in Iranian-ha beenazm va hey meekhan khodeshoon ro bechassboonan be ma"

Mehrdad

Super weird!

Cathartic blog, eroonman! 

Proud to be known as Aryans

and read more about Aryans on this reference article by Dr Saadat Noury:

//iranian.com/main/blog/msn-tehran39/first-iranians-who-lived-iranian-plateau

Anti-Aryanism

How come everybody talks so much of anti-Semitism ad nauseam but nobody talks of anti-Aryanism???

Actually most Jewish people living in Europe and North-America are more Caucasian than Semitic but still trace their origins back to Semites and Israel! A notable example is the former Secretary of Defense of the United States during the Clinton era William Cohen. Even in this article on human penis size they put Jewish Caucasian males in their own category:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_penis_size

So this is mostly a question of identity. We Persians trace our origins back to Aryans and the linguistic similarities between the Persian language and other European languages are ample evidence for that.

As per this article then we should trace our origins back to the Mongols and have Chengiz Khan as national icon instead of Cyrus the Great!

There was undoubtedly racial mixing during the different periods of Iranian history but according to different genetic studies published on this site the Iranians have been able to preserve their genetic homogeneity and uniformity far more than other neighbouring people, for example the Armenians and the Turks! But there was even Mongol occupation of Eastern Europe and undoubtedly racial mixing:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_occupation_of_...

Aryanness is not solely epitomized and embodied by the despicable Nazi period. That proved to be an aberration and that era served no other purpose than to cast aspersions on the Aryan character!

And last but not least there is also evidence that the climate of the region and prolonged exposure to the kind of climate has effects on the racial development of people.

We are as bastard as any nation in the central Asia,...

... Middle East and Europe – the result of a mixed hush-posh of genes passed on by many conquering armies. The notion that there is a distinct race of people known as Arayns is  fanciful if not ridiculous.

Good work eroonman.

here are some articles on ÂRYÂ (ARYAN) from CAIS

ÂRYÂ (ARYAN) - Philology of Ethnic Epithet of Iranian Peoples

By Sir Harold Bailey

//www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Anthropology/arya.htm

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IRANIAN PEOPLES

Aryans' Immigration

By: Dr Reza Moradi Ghiasabadi

//www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Anthropology/aryans_immigration.htm

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ARYANS

The Iranians

By: Prof. R. Schmitt

//www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Anthropology/aryans.htm

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PERSIA OR IRAN?  WHEN "PERSIA" BECAME "IRAN"

By Professor Ehsan Yarshater

Translated for CAIS by Abbas Farzamfar - 1998

This article is a part of "Persia or Iran" published in Iranian Studies, Vol. XXII, No.1, 1989

//www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Iran/persia_or_iran.htm

Very interesting View

which makes sense.  Thanks Eroonman.

I try not to mention this aryan bs thing anymore.

Am I Aryan?

Eroonman jaan, you have seen me; my hair was blond, it is turning white and my eyes are green :-)  Am I Aryan?

We have more important matters to worry about

From an academic point of view, I am interested in these kind of discussions but with all that goes on in Iran under IRI, I don't want to spend energy on whether we are Aryan or not. I am far more worried about what is happening to our culture under IRI. All the "badamoozi" in Iran that it is OK to stone women. Women and men have to be separated and men can have multiple wives. Additionally, people are still in prison. So look at what some Iranians are doing to other Iranians. How can this be stopped? What are we doing as Iranians in Diaspora to help the situation? These are my concerns.

We don't need to be blond

The superior race will emerge from Asia.  Have you ever watched the Star Trek "Khan" episode?

 //scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/Images/khan-and-kirk-star-trek-tos.jpg

:-)))) 

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Sargord Mark

Has your 'Iranian' family disowned you, yet?

There is no such thing as

There is no such thing as race, at least not beyond the pseudo-political realm.

And, just so you know, I have two full-blooded Iranian second-cousins with coarse, wiry blonde hair.