Faramarz's Latest Rambling

Q your argument has so many holes that...

...you can use it as an "abkesh" to drain rice!

In the 1970's, ROK would send engineers and managers to Iran to learn how to build a new car industry. Today Iran assembles old obsolete Korean cars like the Kia Pride.

The ROK has made IRI look like Sweden? Jamshid explained extremely well why this statement is so ridiculous. Did ROK ever witness anything like the last 2 months in Iran, did they execute children, did they systematically rape and imprison and execute dissidents? Which planet do you reside on??

The ROK was able to make progress thanks to US money pouring in? Well, the amount of oil revenue that has gone into Iran for the last 30 years dwarfs the amount of US aid to ROK in the same period.

The ROK didn't have to pay for its own defense and the US defended them instead? If they had done that in Iran, you would have been calling the Shah a puppet even more. So then was the ROK government even more puppet than the Shah? If so, how could a country led by a foreign puppet end up prospering so much, such that today they sell way more cars to the US than vice versa?

And yes, Iraqi weapons from east and west were falling on Iranians. I
guess Iran was just being a nice little kid in the neighborhood when
this big Iraqi bully came out of nowhere and whacked him? Never mind
that the grand leader of Iran openly saying all regimes in the region
are illegitimate, must be overthrown, and replaced with one they
preferred, and took 52 American diplomats hostage for 444 days, and
invaded their embassy, which is a declaration of war on the US. And in
the meantime was dismantling Iran's army. How smart was that? Was that
conduct in the interest of Iran or the Islamic movement?

We had the "guts" to stand up to Uncle Sam? Yayyyy, congratulations tough guy. Just one question-what did you gutsy brave people propose as a replacement to the "American puppet" when you did so? A better form of government? Like an Islamic government, one where there is an absolute leader for life who has full right to veto anything the people say and can openly declare war on the people if he determines it is in the interest of Islam? Brilliant. Bravo. But for some reason, I am not impressed.

Meanwhile, did the South Korean people also not rise up against the "American puppet" also? And how did their opposition conduct themselves and what result did they get?

Nobody forced the new Iranian government to confront the west, and the west was even willing to work with them. The new hezbollah government in Iran decided to confront the west as a strategy for its own survival, at the expense of Iran and the Iranian people, something that the South Korean opposition would never do. EVER.

And that is the most important difference between Iran and South Korea. Somehow your list didn't have that one on there.

-FAIR

Re: Q

The IRI killed more than 8000 people in just a few weeks in the late 80s. This has not happened in South Korea.

Before getting executed, women have been getting raped in IRI's prisons for 30 years, in the name of religion. S. Korean government does not commit such crimes.

Same with ghasaas, i.e., the cutting of limbs and stoning, etc.

South Koreans are a lot more prosperous than Iranians. This is indicated by their economic indicators.

Their bottom line industrial base was less advanced than Iran before 1979. Today, they are far more advanced than Iran.

There have been many protests in S. Korea. I don't recall 4000 people getting arrested and hundreds killed and prisoners being raped in S. Korea.

Sure Q, South Koreans make IRI look like Sweden.

Do you believe that (the deseased and infectious) IRI suppoters and enablers are accomplices to the crimes that the IRI have been committing, and still are committing, in the past 30 years, and which has become so clearly exposed today? Yes or no?

ZULFIQAR110 must have just emerged

from his  Vodka & Opium-Hashish induced stupor....

time to go walk in the park  

Separation of Church and State - A must !

Alborz

FF, let's explore a bit further ...

Your statement:

Although a Jewish Republic or Zorastrian Republic of Iran would be very bad, Islamic Republic of Iran has been, is and will be the worst prefix

So, why is a Jewish Republic or Zorastrian Republic of Iran would be very bad and why is the prefix of "Islamic" worse? You excluded Hindu, Baha'i and Christian religions. Does that mean that a Christian or Baha'i or Hindu republic of Iran would be good then? And if so why?

Brain Drain: Fight or

Brain Drain: Fight or Flight?

//tehranbureau.com/fight-flight/

Having withdrawn tons of

Having withdrawn tons of gold bullion and currency in fear from Swiss Banks in the last 18-months or so, Interesting that a Turkish lawyer is trying to get it back for his "apparent" one person client, though "it never arrived, never happened"! How did this man acquire this fortune? Or is it Mullah Khamenei and his gang's stolen money?
Reminder, the $18.5 billion amount is more than the national budget of many countries and would make a huge difference in Turkey's national budget

The containers held $7.5 billion in GENUINE $100 banknotes and 20 metric tons of gold. Both truck drivers fled the scene and have not been captured to date.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikEH3RVGOOw&feature=player_embedded

//ppjg.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/dr-manouchehr-ganji-to-pm-erdogan-come-clean-on-the-18-5-billion-u-s-transferred-to-turkey-from-iran/

the Islamic Republic by no

the Islamic Republic by no way shape or form is **Independent**. The only way Iran has become "indepedent" is in the way of plundering and prostituting to the highest bidder without really getting much in return.

IR is a client state of Russia and China: our external enemies.

Domestic enemies are the IRGC members who are selling Iran's oil privately as if it's their own property.

Iran will never be independent as long as domestic and foreign enemies treat it like a free ATM.

Q

Q says: 

Yes, Kaveh we "dared" to antagonize the big Uncle by overthrowing his puppet dictator, and we're proud of it.

Well, Q jaan, I think that you just proved Faramarz's point if this is the ONLY thing that you can show and be proud of as a measure of accomplishment in your "Islamic Republic" for the past thirty years.  You and your ilk are like a bunch of has beens who sit around and talk about their lost glory....we did this, we toppled the Shah, we insulted the Great Satan...OK.  Now what?  What have you done since aside from death, imprisonment, torture, oppression, corruption, war, etc...oh, I forgot, you alo "stood up to" Israel and helped hezbollah in the 2006 war with Israel (I'm sure that the last two things have helped Iranians a lot!!!!!).

Bad-o birah goftan be amrica va shoar dadan-e alaki keh shomaha 30 sal-e keh khodetoon ro behesh mashghool kardeed and bahash sar-e mardom ro garm kardeed be jaee nemirestoonanetetoon.  mardom ham een ro dark kardand, va be hameen dalileh keh digeh azetoon nemitarsand.  Kolahetoon pas-e maarekast aziz. 

.........

one other things to add is : korean have work ethic,team work,pride in being korean and.....

unfortunatly majority of Iranian don't have those qualities;I THINK Maziar

Hey FF

So you think if it was Hindu or Jewish or Christian or Baha'i republic of Iran it could do better?

ummm Faramarz_Fateh are you paying attention???

There is no comparison between S Korea and the Islamic Republic from 1979 till 2009   maybe you could have been referring to either N Korea or possibly NAZI Germany.....  if you really want to make comparisons try Ancient ROME and their treatment of the Christians and contrast their brutal suppression of Christians and the Islamic Republic's brutal Suppression of the Bahá’ís of Iran

Kaveh, can you define...

benevolent dictatorship, and why is it a good thing?

Dear Kaveh V,

did you actually read the links?

Anonymous8

Now I am concerned that you may be suffering from downsyndrome, or mental retardation by saying:

"...and i don't know how you can say if it (SK) was better or worse than IRI. except for personal opinion".

Why don't you check out the number of political prisoners who were shot, hanged, tortured and maimed in South Korea and compare to the tens of thousands who were murdered on the streets and in the jails in the glorious Islamic republic whose number are being kept by various human rights advocacy groups. If, after an exhaustive search, you still can not figure out why, do not hesitate to make an appointment to visit me in person. I will happily take care of it in person.

best of luck.

Mr Fateh.

I agree with you. No country has had Iran's brain drain in past  3o years either.

Payandeh Iran & Iranians

Down with IRI & his supporters

Dear mr. Craig,

Ok, you lied. I'm not sure what you mean by your last question. i could not provide such a proof becaues you are not Iranian.

Kaveh, Ok, everything is relative. if you read some of the links and some of the wiki articles you would see that it was not a "beneign" dictatorship and i don't know how you can say if it was better or worse than IRI. except for personal opinion.

Anonymous8

Everything is relative. South Korea has had a benevolent dictatorship for some time, but their brutality is insignificant compared to the Islamic republic. Very very few regimes, governments, or governing bodies have practiced the level of barbarity that the Islamic republic has practiced in the past 30 years.Obviously, therre is a great deal of details invloved, but I trust you can find your way through them.

I lied!

One more! Anonymous8, are you here to provide living proof that not all Iranians are intelligent?

Kaveh V,

thanks Kaveh. I know it was a Q quote. but why is it funny to programmer? programmer claims he considered SK was a military dictatorship from the beginning after i show him the wiki page.

Last one for tonight...

our first comment to q was this:

Yes. Yes it was. 

why laugh? why bold the statements you agree with? forgive me, its confusing!  

It's only confusing to you because you decided to try to misinterpret what I was saying to Q. Again: this is not my problem.

And if you dislike the way the quote was bolded, take it up with Q. It isn't my job to edit his comments before I quote them. Again: this is not my problem.

And if you don't find it funny that somebody like Q, who claims to be a reformist, says that South Korea was so bad that it made the Islamic Republic look like Sweden in comparison, then again: this is not my problem.

Now, can I ask why both you and Q are going back and editing your comments to add things that weren't there when originally made? Because, that's a genuine cause of confusion. Some people (but not me because I'm a nice guy!) might even accuse you guys of being deceptive.

Anonymous8

This is the funniest part here:

South Korea was basically a military dictatorship. With something like 10 governments each controlled by the Military, with periods of outright military control and brutal suppression of students and labor sector that makes IRI look like Sweden.

Thanks for the laugh!

[end from Programmer]

why laugh? why bold the statements you agree with? forgive me, its

confusing! 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear mr. Craig,

i might be confused again. it looks to me like you changed your story after q provided the links.

again, maybe just my confusion!!!

Anonymous8

I was pretty clear right from the start. Your "confusion" is not my problem.

Q

This should amuse you:

//www.who-sucks.com/people/the-exciting-world...

Dear mr. Craig,

i'm confused. so you agreed all along that south korea was a military dictatorship?

your first comment to q was this:

[from Programmer]

This is the funniest part here:

South Korea was basically a military dictatorship. With something like 10 governments each controlled by the Military, with periods of outright military control and brutal suppression of students and labor sector that makes IRI look like Sweden.

Thanks for the laugh!

[end from Programmer]

why laugh? why bold the statements you agree with? forgive me, its confusing! 

Anonymous8

i humbly looked up "Military Dictatorship" in Wiki. there is a line for South Korea in the Asia section.

That wasn't where Q was wrong. Where Q was wrong was in claiming it was not only worse than the IRI (nothing is worse than the IRI) but that it made the IRI look like "Sweden".

It's no surprise to me that you would think that kind of garbage is "well argued" though. You are one of the usual suspects on this website, after all.

so you still basically have

so you still basically have nothing to say

Not to you. I already told you, you're so far from reality there's no point in trying to have a rational discussion.

but self-concocted BS.

As opposed to the BS you spew that was concocted by Noam Chomski, Juan Cole, etc?

Unlike you, I've actually been to South Korea. I've had dinner with ROK Marines and their familes. I've hung out in bars and restaurants talking to South Koreans. I've even played in soccer and American style football matches and competed in Tae Kwon Do tournaments with South Koreans. It's not my favorite country, and they aren't my favorite people, but at least my "self-concocted"claims are based on my own experiences and my own thoughts. Which is more than you can say. Isn't it? Or do you want to tell me more stories about your imaginary time in South Korea?

Dear mr. Craig

i humbly looked up "Military Dictatorship" in Wiki. there is a line for South Korea in the Asia section. South Korea (1961-1979; 1980-1987) //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship... Q was correct :) thank Q for the lesson!!! i agree too, well argued. learning something new everyday.

PPS Q

This protest was YESTERDAY. There isn't a day taht goes by the South Koreans aren't protesting. They thrive on protests, as I'm sure you saw while you were on your way to the best BBQ in Seoul, right?

What does it tell you that they have been having daily protests for decades, and they still continue to do it? Oh, I know! It tells you that they have a brutal military dictatorship that brooks no dissent, right?

//www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&si...

Aug. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Ssangyong Motor Co., the South Korean
automaker under bankruptcy protection, said it will resume
operations as early as this month as workers were forced to end
77 days of occupation after police stormed into its factory.

Car-making equipment inside the plant in Pyeongtaek,
located 70 kilometers (44 miles) south of Seoul, sustained no
major damage and normal operations can be expected after two to
three weeks, Ssangyong said today in an e-mailed statement.

The protest, which cost the automaker about 316 billion won
($258 million) in lost production, ended yesterday after police
rappelled into one of the plant’s paint shops by helicopter on
Aug. 5 and sprayed tear gas. The automaker’s sales plunged 99
percent to 71 vehicles last month, making it more difficult to
exit bankruptcy.