HUMAN RIGHTS IN IRAN

Einstein was not a Bahai but...

He believed , as he said:

"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man"

 (Albert Einstein) 

What Einstein calls "A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate..." Bahais call the unknowable essence.

faryarm 

To Marjan:

Marjan Said:

"How convenient to associate your faith with John Lennon, completely missing the point of the song! It's outrageous!" 

Yes Marjan,

The  essence of what Lennon says is consistent with Bahai Belief, I do believe he was connected with the same spirit, although he never knew it by name...

He hated dogma, ritual and superstition, as well as divisive religion... 

faryarm 

Unity: The Spirit of the Age

To answer your question: 

You asked

A.) 

 "what exactly do you consider the message of his song?

I believe all poets and seers throughout history have been inspired by the Universal Spirit; The spirit of this age is Unity, and Lennon connected to that.. 

B) Do  you associate it with a particular religion?"

Lennon in saying "...and no religion too" is not in my opinion rejecting God or spirituality; he like most people was sick of the hypocrisy associated with ritual, dogma promoted by religious leaders in the name of "religon".

Do I associate "imagine" with any particular religion.

The answer is NO, because I belive All religions are essentially ONE.

Just like there is only One Sun, appearing in diffrent days of the week.

In The Bahai faith, the emphasis is on the progressive nature of religious truth revealed through various human intermediaries between God and Man.

"... the Bahá'í teachings recognize the divine origin of several world religions as different stages of in the history of one religion, while believing that the revelation of Bahá'u'lláh is the most recent (though not the last--that there will never be a last), and therefore the most relevant to modern society"

full text:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelati

Marjan....just curious

what exactly do you consider the message of his song?  And do  YOU associate it with a particular religion?

:-)

"Imagine" ... AND NO RELIGION TOO

How convenient to associate your faith with John Lennon, completely missing the point of the song! It's outrageous!

Imagine there's no Heaven

It's easy if you try

No hell below us

Above us only sky

Imagine all the people

Living for today

Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion too

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will live as one

What's next? Einstein was a Bahai?

Excellent

Excellent post Faryar jaan, my deepest thanks. 

Crude and Materialistic outlook...

"The Universal crisis affecting mankind is ..essentially spiritual in its causes... 

Causes as age old as greed, hatred , prejudice, and injustice.

The Spirit of the age , taken on the whole, is irreligious. Man's outlook on life is too crude and materialistic to enable him to elevate himself into the higher realms of the spirit".

"It is this condition, so sadly morbid, into which society has fallen....." 

The rise of spiritual movements, interest in eastern spirituality at the same time people's rejection of dogma and ritual in "religion" ( as in lennon's imagine) is testament to mankind.s innate need to connect with the spirit of the age..

The same spirit inspiring Lennon's Imagine in 1970. 

"...and the world will be as one" 

Faryarm 

Tut tut , Faryam

"Ignorance is bliss

and

'tis folly to be wise."

Happy Christmas

Hi Ramin

Sorry, have been doodling about and am way behind schedule...

Perhaps we'll continue this another time? It's also a bit, ehm , noisy in here. ;)

In the meantime

Happy Christmas and Happy New Year

Marjan

PS "Look out Jesus is coming. Look busy!" (it's a bad joke)

Over and Out..

Ignorance is Bliss.. 

you have nothing to say...

give it up

over and out.

Faryarm 

"Nothing written was my idea

"Nothing written was my idea or did i claim to be mine..."

They asked a fox who is your witness she said my tail! This is even worse and the reason I said you are a terrible representative of your faith.

You are now blaming this crap on your faith!

I have no ownership of this whatsoever...

This was ALL about facts and History...nothing else...and i repeatedly reminded you...pay attention! 

I have no ownership of this whatsoever...No Ego attached...

Nothing written was my idea or did i claim to be mine...

Is this the extent of your attention... 

This was ALL about facts and History...nothing else... 

My FACTS are Straight, written and published in over 80 languages...

Available in Persian, English, Arabic, Spanish etc..

//www.bahai.org 

This was NEVER  about me...

Another instance of your prejudment... 

Ps

What is your blood pressure any way? 

"You have every right to be

"You have every right to be silent, until you have something to backup your points with..."

I saw your backups and raised you with your "own" backups! How much backup do you need?!

This discussion was not about your "facts" or my "facts". It was about the "fact" that you think you have the answers (because someone had it in 19th century) while the "fact" remains that is NOT the case. As long as you have your "facts" straight!

You have the right to remain silent !

You have every right to be silent, until you have something to backup your points with...

Lazy? I think not, the time I have given to you proves that...

In the coming weeks, months and years, please keep this dialogue in mind as the world situation spirals to a point where we will all be humbled by events in our lives that will makes us think and start to ask questions we have never pondered or ever bothered to consider..

Then you can make your own judgments and suffer to come back to these pages and try to find meaning and  Sense out of the Increasing Chaos Around Us .

I wish you well regardless of your tone

faryarm 

"Please give an example of

"Please give an example of "judgmental""

Now you are being lazy. Was Leili a man or a woman?!

Go back, suffer through scrolling down your own comments and re-read what I said.

You are welcome!

Please give an example of "judgmental"

Please give an example of "judgmental"...

Further: 

 Words  like "who else" were used , and i humbly stand by them..

because my experience and study has not shown of any other solution thatso wholly  addresses the mounting Global issues , both phyiscal and spiritual.

Please if I am wrong, correct me..with facts. 

Name me ANY ideas out there with same degree of certainty and authority ..

This certitude, I can not apologise for...

The Problem is , people with closed minds like you , incapable of unbiased examination can not possibly engage in a fruitful discussion  and contiue to accuse one of being "judgemental"..

If you think my comments are judgmental, give an example and your reason why you think its judgmental... 

My attude right or wrong should not prevent you from seeing the substance in the whole discussion...

Perhaps you are being JUDGMENTAL by Pre Judging ideas you are unable to comprehend.

...and that is precisely what Prejudice is....making uninformed opinions and judgments without familiarity with the subject; something you have already professed to; " I am not religious".

The use of video clips are to ilustrate the points made...

why are you so bothered by them...

If you think Bahais are wrong and they did not see todays problems coming, then prove them wrong...bring facts to the table instaed of empty 

boneheaded accusations.. 

Can you? if not please stop embarrassing yourself...

Faryarm

PS. Please check your Blood Pressure... 

"I am certain I dont have to

"I am certain I dont have to apologize to Non judgmental, Well meaning and fair minded people about my passionate expression and discussion of a spiritual solution the world's problems."

This would be true if you yourself were non judgmental and fair minded. Your "passion" means nothing if you have an attitude of this "is" the "only" way and confirming it with words like "no other way" or "who else" and "only".

Call me anything you want. This is not my problem. I am not giving "solutions" to world's biggest problems. I'm just telling you if I had solutions to world's biggest problems I would first find out how to tell it to people.

In Farsi we say they wouldn't let someone in the village he asked for the Governor. You expect people to understand your "solutions" by video clips and boat load of quotes and crap like we saw this back in 19th century and there is no other way!

Scared? Why?

With respect,

The word used should have been Conscience not consciousness.

You said:

"Well you have failed miserably. Becasue a) people are conscious already and b) your attitude certainly scares people away" 

I am certain I dont have to apologize to Non judgmental, Well meaning and fair minded people about my passionate expression and discussion of a spiritual solution the world's problems.

 I do admit to a degree of failure to get through to some like you, who describe themselves as "not religious" , although you seem to demonstarte the same degree of obstinate Taliban fanaticism  in your "non religious" views, which basically amount to attacks and ridicule.

Illustrated by the absence of even one positive contribution.

Your tone from the beginning and what you have used to identify yourself bely and contradict your statement.."I have no ill will against Bahais or the faith itself" you said.

One hopes that this exchange however regrettably confrontational, will serve to open your horizons  to what is essentially a new spiritual force in the world , shaping our lives.

I call what you call "religious" as Superstitious dogma and empty ritual perpetuated by self serving guardians (Mullahs, priest, etc) of outdated religions for another time and place.

What I have presented here is nothing but positive and forward looking principles of the Bahai Faith for betterment of our world, backed up by facts and historical reference; material that I  doubt you bothered to read judging by your responses. 

The greatest gift you can give, is to your self in opening up your mind and heart to ideas whose time has come..

Dont be scared , its only Knowledge!

peace

faryarm 

"Much of what it is said

"Much of what it is said here is but an attempt to raise consciousness"

Well you have failed miserably. Becasue a) people are conscious already and b) your attitude certainly scares people away.

I have no ill will against Bahais or the faith itself. I am not even religious. I wish you and others could practice your faithS freely anywhere.

"not used to seeing this level of free expression by a Bahai"

What "level"?!

Consider my comments free basic communication lessons. They are ALL based on your comments as I quoted you. You can go back and read them again. Of course after suffering by going back through your own long video filled comments!

Consider my comments gifts. You are welcome! I may or may not give you another gift so enjoy them while you can.

Never about preaching...

 This has never been about preaching...

I am by not a  representative of my faith, but just one concerned voice..

I dont believe in preaching, as it is my belief that thinking minds have to reach their own conclusions...

Much of what it is said here is but an attempt to raise consciousness and to provide, as they say in Persian (since we are communicating in English, not "Farsi" as you put it) a  "Sareh Nakh" to enable the more enquiring minds and hearts to dig deeper... and reach their own conclusions., as many I am sure do.

You by your statements, have exposed your real intentions and deep seated prejudice, and probably, one that is not  used to seeing this level of free expression by a Bahai...

I do whilst responding to your indigestion induced noise, think of those innocent Bahai youth in Iran who dont have the chance to publicly and freely express and proclaim (not preach) these ideas to people like you, whose only solution has been to silence them by torture , firing squad and Jail.

Are you in Iran by any chance?

 As to your  Taliban comment..

well, i leave you in your state of enlighhtened bliss.

Do comment again, but please check your blood pressure frequently. 

Faryarm

PS. Do register so we can tell whether you are a paid IRI Signal to Nose expert, active in the field of pure noise...or just another 

By the way your eengileesh is getting better... 

"The questions and ideas

"The questions and ideas given here are part of a whole solution to both the material and spiritual needs of all of us, including you."

The way you preach your faith is equivalent to the way Taliban preaches Islam. It has nothing to do with your faith. If you are an "informed" representative of your faith then you have failed miserably.

If you are a representative of your faith I want nothing to do with it. Yet you want to choose for me!

You think you are the first person who has a light bulb go in his head and now as we say in Farsi; can NOT be satisfied being God's creature! Like a kid who suddently "discovers" masturbation and wants to tell his dad the good news!

This has nothing to do with elequonce or lack thereof. This is about choosing between being esmart or estupid!

BASIC Straight Talk Does'nt Need P.R Spin...

Dear "Friend",

Straight Talk Does'nt t Need Spin... 

The Bahai Faith is not some new prodcut on the market, and I am neither a

Salesman, a cleric, or a "man of cloth".

I am however an informed and concerned human being who belives that there is a definite logic to what is happening in the world today; that we can not continue to live in our own little cocoons. 

I believe that is up to every person to independently realize what is the spirit of the age and connect to that solution by him or herself, and become part of a untied and concerted effort to bring about a better world.

The questions and ideas given here are part of a whole solution to both the material and spiritual needs of all of us, including you. 

Your have up to now resorted to rudeness, ridicule and outright rejection of even the most simple concept. That is your choice.

With regard to my communication skills, I humbly apologize if they have not been able to reach your level of sophistication and eloquence. 

In the meantime, may I leave you with the following reminder of what your IRI Public Relations  Department in Iran is currently engaging in.

Faryarm  

courtesy: 

//www.hrairan.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29:2008-12-09-14-25-13&catid=31:2008-12-06-06-28-40&Itemid=58 

""It is not possible to

""It is not possible to understand the challenges of today...

especially If one has dark hate coloured lenses that BLINDS one from seeing reality; when it so obviously spelt out, reasoned with facts and history."

Buddy you are the one giving solution to world's biggest problems yet are not in any position of doing anything! None-what-so-ever! Nada! Zero! Zilch!

"What have the Bahais Accomplished?

Much to the dismay of their enemies in Iran, and even here on this blog

they are by example spreading a message of Unity around the world, and with it have glorified the name and the reputation of Iran"

Sounds like nothing to me!

More than anything you need a PR class. You need to take some public relations courses or pay someone for consulting or marketing to teach people of your ill some basic social skills. Some basic public relations skills. Some basic politicial skills. Some basic stuff!

Instead of quoting Baha'u'llah, Confesius, Socrates and others left and right, learn some basic humility, some basic communications skills about why your belief is NOT any better than others.

This can go on forever! It is easy and I don't even need to quote anyone else other than you! Who needs Khayam?!

Investigation of the truth

As a free man we can all investigate the truth.
At the end there is only one truth.
The world of God which we live in, is a mystical world. There are many questions which man can not answer.
In the future, science will get us closer to prove the existence of God.
The religions of God were all for betterment of the world. The messengers of God during a Progressive Revelation brought different messages that were remedies to the problems of the time, and spoke only about the things that man could understand and bear then, and according to man's capacity.
All the scientists and historian have one question to ask now, and that is why in the last 150 years(some ask why the last century) the world got changed so much which has affected the rest of the history of mankind. From Noah until His holiness, the messenger of God Mohammad, people lived not much different; for example people used horses and donkeys as the way of transportation.
After 1844 (the revelation of Bab) the world changed drastically. With every messenger of God, a powerful energy gets released. For example in Islam, Art, Math, Science were unfolded much more than any other time in history. At 1844, a greater energy was released. This was part of the new world order for betterment of the world and Unity of Mankind. This is the time for the maturity of mankind. The Baha'i Faith invites the whole world to come together as one family and one race, the human race. This was the message of Baha'u'llah, the messenger of God for this time.
The world of God outside of this world is not subject to time and place. So, the messengers of God, could see what is coming in the future and gave prophecies. Now, man, because of his ego, thinks he can discover things by science only and does not see the need for God. Human being has soul and the soul must be nourished by the spiritual food which is brought to us by the messengers of God.

Interesting that the Baha'i Faith believes in the balance between the science and religion. For example, Jesus can not return, riding from the clouds since scientifically that is impossible. Religion can take man into superstition if without the proof of science.
If one wishes to investigate these things, there are many web sites and information online we can refer to, that is if one is thirsty to investigate the truth.
Best wishes for everyone.
soroosh

Challenges and Accomplishments.

"It is not possible to understand the challenges of today...

especially If one has dark hate coloured lenses that BLINDS one from   seeing reality; when it so obviously spelt out, reasoned with facts and history.

160 years ago at the height of colonialism and nation building, Baha'u'llah spoke to humanity with such clarity about its future  Global of family of nations.

But what have the Bahais done, in the last 160 years...to achieve that goal?

To have become perhaps the most Diverse and United body of people on earth.

How did a Persian born religion that was the target for annihilation  by both the Qajars and The Ottoman Turks, survive and endure the massacres, the exiles, the imprisonment and become according to the Encyclopedia Britannia become the second most widely distributed religion in the world after Christianity, meaning where ever there are human being there is a Bahai community.

Communities that today comprise of every race , religion and class all over the Globe, Iranians Bahais being only a segment. 

How have the Bahais of Iran endured  and still enduring the brutal persecution in Iran; why and how have they remained so steadfast to their principles in spite of torture and death in the hands of their  ruthless oppressors?

And  what are Bahai accomplishments in todays world? what are they doing to achieve Baha'u'llahs Vision of World Unity? What gives them the faith, the character, the resolve?

At a time when the rest of the world is "pounding sand" , when its world leaders are at a loss as to how to deal with corruption, poverty, disease, racial wars, genocide, economic bankruptcy, nuclear proliferation, etc

Bahai's for at least the last 60 year have been building a world community based on a divinely ordained revolutionary admnstrative system that is rooted on  the individual, individuals who with a spirit of love and service democratically elect  to local, national and  intenational bodies , assemblies that will in the future become the model for Global Governance.

The Bahai International community (BIC) was one of the first Non Governmaental organisations at the United nations.

"The BIC is today one of the most active NGOs in the field of social and economic service throughout the world.Throughout the last 60 years, the BIC has worked to uphold the rights of women, children, minorities and indigenous populations and has been active in UN debates and efforts to strengthen mechanisms to uphold economic, social and cultural rights. Today, the BIC plays a leadership role in a number of NGO committees focused on human rights and participates actively in efforts to strengthen the UN’s capacity to realize the ideals set forth in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights."

The Baha'i International Community

What have the Bahais Accomplished? 

Much to the dismay of their enemies in Iran, and even here on this blog

they are by example spreading a message of Unity around the world, and with it have glorified the name and the reputation of Iran, as seen in the clip below.

"It is not possible to understand the challenges of today, without comprehending the immense scope of Baha'u'llah's vision of World Unity."

A world unity in the making...

Faryarm

After 1844 Part III - Video

A mechanism of world inter-communication will be devised, embracing the whole planet, freed from national hindrances and restrictions, and functioning with marvellous swiftness and perfect regularity. (Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 203) 

"It is not possible to

"It is not possible to understand the challenges of today, without comprehending the immense scope of Baha'u'llah's vision of World Unity."

Huhh, so the rest of the world are just pounding sand! Huhh. Who knew?! And WTF have Bahais accomplished?

Hi Marjan

Lets deal the last point, first.

I do not know how some organizations have become tax exempt, including WWF and Green Peace. I know some religious sects in USA were formed to avoid paying tax. But certainly Baha'i faith in 19th century Iran was not one of them! It has florished despite all persecution, so paying tax won't make a difference.
I know you find it unfair, but we should be discussing whether the whole thing about religion is true or not. Do you agree?

secondly I do not want for people to get the impression that we are suggesting that Baha'u'llah was just a seer or fortune teller.
Far from it, he was teacher and founder of a new ideology with amazingly advanced principles even for today's society, let alone 150 years ago.

Teachings like, elimination of all forms of prejudice, equality of sexes, a world without borders, universal auxiliary language etc.

And Babis and Baha'is from day one have enthusiastically given their time, money and even their lives to promote these teachings which we think are essential in survival of humanity.
Just look at Tahirih's life as an example of what was done for forwarding the cause emancipation of women.

you mentioned in your posting
"an assumption of a non-entity outside time and space etc. and an overriding presumption of knowledge of ultimate "truth(s)"."

I suppose religions assume an "entity" out side this physical world, not a non-entity. are you assuming that there is no entity?
there is no way of knowing and no way of proving or disproving it either way. I wish I knew.
But all beliefs are based on assumptions, even atheist.
I really don't know what you believe, since your comments are somewhat cryptic and I have trouble deciphering them. English is my second language.

I really become disappointed with the educated Iranians living in the west, who tend to dismiss an ideology based on very little study, I am very grateful that you have taken an interest in exploring this further.
and as you said nobody's opinion's should be written in stone.

Ramin

Before and After 1844 Part II

The World After 1844,

Technology aided by constant improvement in Communications and Jet travel made it possible, especially today  for people  to slowly begin to realize the meaning of One World.

It is not possible to understand the challenges of today, without comprehending the immense scope of Baha'u'llah's vision of World Unity. 

In March 1936, the following  was written in a letter describing future goals and agencies necessary for  such a Global Vision.

One Stunning prophetic example is the description of a future form of communication:  

A mechanism of world inter-communication will be devised, embracing the whole planet, freed from national hindrances and restrictions, and functioning with marvellous swiftness and perfect regularity. (Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 203)

March 1936

Before and After May 23 1844

 Sometimes idiotic comments are just that; ignorant and stupid; this time , it begs the response to illustrate briefly what was meant by Before and After.

Before 1844

The world before the 1844 had remained pretty much the same for hundreds of years in terms of people's lives and conditions." 

After 1844

The Advent of instant communications changed Everything, bringing us to the way we are all communicating right now.

After precisely May 23 1844, the world changed for ever and began the age of instant communications, when Samuel F. B. Morse transmits the first electromagnetic telegraph message on May 24 from the U.S. Supreme Court room in the Capitol at Washington, D.C., to his associate Alfred L. Vail at the Mount Clare Station of the B&O Railroad at Baltimore (see 1843); "What hath God wrought!" (from Numbers 23:33) is the message and Vail replies, "Yes," transmitting back at a rate that later will be computed as five "bits" per second, which for all intents and purposes represents instant communication.

At the same time on the evening of May 23, 1844, in Shiraz, Persia, a young man known as the Báb gave meaning to the first ever transmitted electric transmission: "What hath God wrought!" He announced the imminent appearance of the Messenger of God awaited by all the peoples of the world. The title Báb means "the Gate." Although Himself the bearer of an independent revelation from God, the Báb declared that His purpose was to prepare mankind for this advent.

Since the date of the Bab, all the countries of the world have become connected through communication and transportation. Since the date of the Bab, a whole new world has unfolded with the railroad, the steamship, the air plane, the forms of rapid communication--the horse and buggy is gone.

Such is the meaning of exponential change after 1844, attributed to what is referred to as the Vibrating influence that has upset the world's equilibrium.

 “The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.”  

For Bahá’u’lláh … has not only imbued mankind with a new and regenerating Spirit. He has not merely enunciated certain universal principles, or propounded a particular philosophy, however potent, sound and universal these may be. In addition to these He, as well as ‘Abdu’l-Bahá after Him, has, unlike the Dispensations of the past, clearly and specifically laid down a set of Laws, established definite institutions, and provided for the essentials of a Divine Economy. These are destined to be a pattern for future society, a supreme instrument for the establishment of the Most Great Peace, and the one agency for the unification of the world, and the proclamation 274 of the reign of righteousness and justice upon the earth. …

Unlike the Dispensation of Christ, unlike the Dispensation of Muḥammad, unlike all the Dispensations of the past, the apostles of Bahá’u’lláh in every land, wherever they labor and toil, have before them in clear, in unequivocal and emphatic language, all the laws, the regulations, the principles, the institutions, the guidance, they require for the prosecution and consummation of their task. … Therein lies the distinguishing feature of the Bahá’í Revelation. Therein lies the strength of the unity of the Faith, of the validity of a Revelation that claims not to destroy or belittle previous Revelations, but to connect, unify, and fulfill them. …

Can this give some meaning and solution to the present mounting storm in the world?

Faryarm