Have you noticed anytime discussing IRR, the Islamist Rapist Republic as a failed dogma, as certain as night follows day, there is always someone(s) showing up to say things like:
1- Although they might have some issues with the ruling Islamists but Iranians remain devoutly religious to the core.
2-The glue which is holding Iranians together is their common religion.
3-The only way out of the current morass is through reforming the current dogma.
4- Secularism is a nonstarter in religious-minded Iran.
There are many other such explanations, but these four should do for the questions I have.
I believe after what IRR has done to Iran and Iranians; it would be much easier to sell ice to Eskimos than given a choice another version of “religious” anything let alone government to Iranians.
Am I way out of ballpark on this?
If not, then why so many former and current IRR people are into “reform”?
If I’m wrong, then again why so many former and current IRR officials are into “reform”?
In other words, if through on the job experience these “reformist” IRR folks have realized the handbook they’ve based their way of ruling on is useless in governing a modern society, what would a paintjob of a new cover do for it’s etched in stone content?
And if it is fine why bother with the new paintjob and cover?
Isn’t all this “reforming” a feeble attempt to keep ruling those who don’t want to be ruled by any version of this dogma?
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on the money Fredby mahmoudg on Sun Sep 05, 2010 01:21 PM PDT
the majority of Iranians are fed up with religion. heck, if people like us (my family) wiht our hiistory of connection to Mohammad and islam are fed up, then think what the rest of the population thinks. The majority who never benefited form it as much as we did. Death to Islam and religion in general, I say.
reform and reformatory schoolby hamsade ghadimi on Sun Sep 05, 2010 06:51 AM PDT
there's an old joke that when criminals are sent to reformatory institutions, they get the opportunity to use the knowledge of other criminals as how to refine their criminal methods so that they will be more efficient in their methods in order to not get caught again. hence, they're reformed.
same thing goes for the reform leaders in iran. iranians who are using these reform leaders are not hoodwinked by them but rather are riding these donkeys for as far as they can to achieve their goals.
anon8, i think aya-toilet aptly pointed you to the difference between islam and islamists. you, as an islamist, make the same mistake as the shahollahis that there are only two groups (+ wild card): islamists, shahollahis (+ defunct communists of old). you fail to see the majority (moslem or not) who believe in neither of those groups.
Where has anyone brought upby Sargord Pirouz on Sun Sep 05, 2010 03:15 AM PDT
Where has anyone brought up these things in this order?
What we've brought up are questions as to who is the person behind "Fred"?
Who are you? What is your family history? What part of Iran are you from? Where did you go to school? etc.
Without that, we're left to perceive your daily doses of rank amateur propaganda as mere hot wind and smoke.
You, Fred, are the cheap propaganda "paintjob."
Being Moslem and Political Islam are two different thingsby aya-toilet1 on Sun Sep 05, 2010 03:13 AM PDT
The point Fred is making is that managing, administering, operating a modern society with the use of political islam is self evidently a bankrupt concept. Look at any figures on Iran's development or Afghanistan's development under the Taliban. The net effect of the theocracy has been a government that has taken over 75% of the country's economy with very poor results; and the highest emigration rate in the world...with an anemic growth rate far behind its neighbors or any other country with similar levels of natural resources. The degree of central control is comparable to communist Soviet Union.
Turkey does have an Islamist Party, operating much like the conservative parties in the West - with strong religious links, but ultimately secular in the way it manages, administers and operates Turkey. Turkey's government sector is less than 30% of GDP; and Turkey's Islamist Party has been shut down 3 times when it tried to insert non-secular policies into the main stream.
Its one thing for Islam to be the source of values in people's heads while they decide who to vote for, its completely another for it to be the sole source of candidates, governmental decisions and policies ...AND for Religious leaders to dominate almost all the "money transfers" in an economy. Anonymous8 - do not confuse the two.
The situation in Iran today, is basically similar to the dark ages in Europe in the 1st and part of the 2nd Millenia where the Pope and the Catholic Church dominated political and economic processes in virtually all of Europe. Even kings were subservient to Rome. Which is completely different to Spain, France, Italy or Germany of today that are secular, and do in fact have "conservative" parties that have leadership that are practicing Christians and supporters that go to Church. Religion as a source of morality, values, and inspiration is completely different to Religion as a business ...and the source of power and wealth.
Saying that Iranians are religious does not mean that Religious Leaders should be billionaires and have their fingers on buttons for launching weapons of mass destruction ... rape, torture and kill people that disagree with them...or indeed that all other voices should be shut out.
islam is very important in iran,by Anonymous8 on Sun Sep 05, 2010 02:36 AM PDT
iranians are religious muslims. that is true, why deny? only a small group from the moftkhor king supporters and some communist did not like islam, because it did not pay! look at turkey, 80 years of anti islam, like reza shah, still turkish very much support islam in 2010.
come on! why deny turth?